|
Post by johneaztec on Aug 14, 2022 16:30:56 GMT -8
My question is, if the Padres didn't go ve him that contract, would somebody else have? Did they feel they needed to act now before so.ebody else grabbed him? I can't remember his status with the team at the time he signed that contract. Would have been a free agent in 2025. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by sdsuball on Aug 14, 2022 17:06:38 GMT -8
Fair take. Not sure about making a definitive statement that it wouldn’t fix anything, but I can understand wanting to avoid the knife at aged 22. No guarantees, of course. Fair. I shouldn't be as matter of fact. But I feel confident that's it a complicated issue no matter what side it's on. Bellinger's shoulder caused him to have to retool his entire swing after surgery and he went from an MVP to an afterthought. Fernando's style of play is also pretty wild, so you'd think chances are there could be even higher risk. No I completely agree on the shoulder. There are no guarantees with shoulder surgery. I have a separated shoulder/broken collarbone that happened when I was 18, and my ligaments are super loose so it pops in and out at times. You can lose mobility in your shoulder by tightening up the ligaments. The doctor wants to tighten the ligaments so that it won't dislocate, but sometimes they tighten it too much and all of a sudden you're worse off then you were pre-surgery. Then you don't have full range of motion and all of a sudden you have to retool your swing, or you can't throw anymore. When the doctor said "I can't guarantee that you will be able to lift your arm above your shoulder - most people can, and most people regain most if not all of their mobility, but there are no guarantees" I said "no thanks - I'll do physical therapy"
|
|
|
Post by sdsuball on Aug 14, 2022 17:09:39 GMT -8
1st step in repositioning who's in charge here is strongly "urging" Tatis get that left shoulder surgery now. Otherwise, I can see him FINALLY getting back next May and 3 games in he dislocates his shoulder AGAIN and is out for a couple weeks. If that happens, I think it's time for him to go while you can still get a bunch of good prospects for him. Surgery doesn't fix the problem. Yeah, the problem is Tatis's mindset - not his shoulder. His shoulder is a nagging thing that he will deal with off and on, but I doubt it will become a serious hinderance. Surgery won't fix his mindset.
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 14, 2022 19:46:28 GMT -8
He still had 4 years on his contract from what I've read. There was NO rush to sign him. He wasn't going anywhere. Using hindsight to justify a narrative isn't really fair to the actual process. Well, from what I've read the, "Experts," thought that Preller was nuts to give him that kind of an extension when he had so few games under his belt. It was seen in the baseball community as a big risk - one with the potential for a huge reward, but also the potential to cripple the team for a decade if it didn't pan out.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 14, 2022 19:52:56 GMT -8
Using hindsight to justify a narrative isn't really fair to the actual process. Well, from what I've read the, "Experts," thought that Preller was nuts to give him that kind of an extension when he had so few games under his belt. It was seen in the baseball community as a big risk - one with the potential for a huge reward, but also the potential to cripple the team for a decade if it didn't pan out. What experts? The talent was obvious. You don't do the things he did at that level that quickly. Waiting, as stated, means you're still paying him and the extension price only goes up. His AAV is $24.3M. In his career thus far, his valuation is north of $109M. It's not going to cripple the team. Those "experts" who write "sustainability" pieces are stuck in the past under other ownership regimes who flat out were not interested in winning or spending money to improve the on field product. That is not Peter Seidler.
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 14, 2022 20:00:42 GMT -8
Well, from what I've read the, "Experts," thought that Preller was nuts to give him that kind of an extension when he had so few games under his belt. It was seen in the baseball community as a big risk - one with the potential for a huge reward, but also the potential to cripple the team for a decade if it didn't pan out. What experts? The talent was obvious. You don't do the things he did at that level that quickly. Waiting, as stated, means you're still paying him and the extension price only goes up. His AAV is $24.3M. In his career thus far, his valuation is north of $109M. It's not going to cripple the team. Those "experts" who write "sustainability" pieces are stuck in the past under other ownership regimes who flat out were not interested in winning or spending money to improve the on field product. That is not Peter Seidler. What if Seidler's health takes a turn for the worse? What if his wife wants a divorce and forces a sale of the team? He cannot be counted on to be here in 6 or 7 years. He PROBABLY will be, but if not this franchise will be a perpetual cellar dweller. Tatis' extension could have waited a year or two. Right now it doesn't look like such a bargain. He's going to have to grow up a lot in 6 months. Most people can't mature that much that quickly. He's a great athlete. That doesn't make him a person with great character. All we know for sure is that we don't know anything. Maybe he learns from this and comes back as a better person and a more responsible teammate. Maybe he self destructs. (Lots of people with sudden wealth do.) We don't know. We do know that if there are any significant problems with Tatis in the future his contract becomes an albatross. The Padres do not have the revenue to eat a bad contract without consequences like the Dodgers can.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 14, 2022 20:13:04 GMT -8
What experts? The talent was obvious. You don't do the things he did at that level that quickly. Waiting, as stated, means you're still paying him and the extension price only goes up. His AAV is $24.3M. In his career thus far, his valuation is north of $109M. It's not going to cripple the team. Those "experts" who write "sustainability" pieces are stuck in the past under other ownership regimes who flat out were not interested in winning or spending money to improve the on field product. That is not Peter Seidler. What if Seidler's health takes a turn for the worse? What if his wife wants a divorce and forces a sale of the team? He cannot be counted on to be here in 6 or 7 years. He PROBABLY will be, but if not this franchise will be a perpetual cellar dweller. Tatis' extension could have waited a year or two. Right now it doesn't look like such a bargain. He's going to have to grow up a lot in 6 months. Most people can't mature that much that quickly. He's a great athlete. That doesn't make him a person with great character. All we know for sure is that we don't know anything. Maybe he learns from this and comes back as a better person and a more responsible teammate. Maybe he self destructs. (Lots of people with sudden wealth do.) We don't know. We do know that if there are any significant problems with Tatis in the future his contract becomes an albatross. The Padres do not have the revenue to eat a bad contract without consequences like the Dodgers can. What if the ceiling caves in? What if the tide overflows? Doomsday scenarios don't really serve a functional purpose. Seidler is the majority owner - He's not the only cog in the machine. No, the time was right to get a Tatis extension done when it got done. Like I said, even if he misses 25 or 30 games a season, he easily pays off his contract value. He needs to be basically a 3 WAR player to provide surplus value. He did that in less than half a season last year. We don't know what path he will take - But the franchise is not folding. They have Juan Soto. They have Manny Machado. Just take a breath and enjoy the ride. And no, the contract is not an albatross and will not be an albatross at any juncture.
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 14, 2022 20:21:50 GMT -8
What if Seidler's health takes a turn for the worse? What if his wife wants a divorce and forces a sale of the team? He cannot be counted on to be here in 6 or 7 years. He PROBABLY will be, but if not this franchise will be a perpetual cellar dweller. Tatis' extension could have waited a year or two. Right now it doesn't look like such a bargain. He's going to have to grow up a lot in 6 months. Most people can't mature that much that quickly. He's a great athlete. That doesn't make him a person with great character. All we know for sure is that we don't know anything. Maybe he learns from this and comes back as a better person and a more responsible teammate. Maybe he self destructs. (Lots of people with sudden wealth do.) We don't know. We do know that if there are any significant problems with Tatis in the future his contract becomes an albatross. The Padres do not have the revenue to eat a bad contract without consequences like the Dodgers can. What if the ceiling caves in? What if the tide overflows? Doomsday scenarios don't really serve a functional purpose. Seidler is the majority owner - He's not the only cog in the machine. No, the time was right to get a Tatis extension done when it got done. Like I said, even if he misses 25 or 30 games a season, he easily pays off his contract value. He needs to be basically a 3 WAR player to provide surplus value. He did that in less than half a season last year. We don't know what path he will take - But the franchise is not folding. They have Juan Soto. They have Manny Machado. Just take a breath and enjoy the ride. And no, the contract is not an albatross and will not be an albatross at any juncture. So if he becomes an average player who misses 40+ games a year because of his shoulder and never regains his top form again, he's worth that much money for that many years? I don't think so. If he's got a chronic, reoccuring shoulder problem that's not just going to go away. Those kinds of things get worse over time, not better. And Seidler is the ONLY owner in Padres history willing to spend this kind of money. If something happens to him I'd bet money that the next majority owner would NOT be willing to spend this much money. I'm not saying it's going to be a disaster or something (it could be, but I'm not predicting that). I'm just saying it has the potential for that. I'm tired of seeing something new every year that keeps the Padres from contending for anything meaningful. That's all I've ever seen. 46 years that I've been following the team. Lots of excuses, lots of bad management, lots of underachieving players - no titles. And damned few playoff appearances.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Aug 14, 2022 20:29:18 GMT -8
All I know is that our team finally has an owner that will go for it, and a GM that makes big things happen.
You'll NEVER be on the same level as the Dodgers, or close to it, if you don't take some risks, from time to time.
It's true what Ryan said, if they waited to sign Tatis down the road, his asking price could have been way higher than what he signed for, based on the things he did on the field in such a short period of time. Heck he was basically the face of baseball there for awhile. Keep going for it, Padres!!! I love it!!!
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 14, 2022 20:41:20 GMT -8
Look, make no mistake, I am in favor of Seidler and Preller going all in. I just worry that this Tatis deal may blow up in their faces and be something that keeps us from catching the Dodgers, Mets, Braves, Yankees, etc.
I'd like to see a San Diego team win a championship in my lifetime. We've lost the Chargers. We lost the Clippers a long time ago (thanks, Donald). If anything happens to set this team back...
I'm just really concerned about the way this Tatis deal is starting to look bad. With that much dead money being owed if something happens and we can't get out of the contract? Can they legitimately contend if they're paying him that much per year when getting nothing out of him?
I just know I hurt myself when I was 22, and the back injury was permanent. It's only gotten worse with time. I'm no doctor, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay at a Holiday In Express last night, so I don't know - what are the chances that his shoulder continually deteriorates year by year?
If there's even a 10% chance of that, then my concerns are justified.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Aug 14, 2022 20:46:56 GMT -8
Look, make no mistake, I am in favor of Seidler and Preller going all in. I just worry that this Tatis deal may blow up in their faces and be something that keeps us from catching the Dodgers, Mets, Braves, Yankees, etc. I'd like to see a San Diego team win a championship in my lifetime. We've lost the Chargers. We lost the Clippers a long time ago (thanks, Donald). If anything happens to set this team back... I'm just really concerned about the way this Tatis deal is starting to look bad. With that much dead money being owed if something happens and we can't get out of the contract? Can they legitimately contend if they're paying him that much per year when getting nothing out of him? I just know I hurt myself when I was 22, and the back injury was permanent. It's only gotten worse with time. I'm no doctor, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay at a Holiday In Express last night, so I don't know - what are the chances that his shoulder continually deteriorates year by year? If there's even a 10% chance of that, then my concerns are justified. I think he's worth the wait and see. I truly don't think he'll eff up again. I understand that you never know, but I believe in the kid. I think he wants to be great, so the only thing that will hold him back is his injury, and not the attitude. I think it's finally been adjusted. We'll see.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 14, 2022 21:08:06 GMT -8
All I know is that our team finally has an owner that will go for it, and a GM that makes big things happen. You'll NEVER be on the same level as the Dodgers, or close to it, if you don't take some risks, from time to time. It's true what Ryan said, if they waited to sign Tatis down the road, his asking price could have been way higher than what he signed for, based on the things he did on the field in such a short period of time. Heck he was basically the face of baseball there for awhile. Keep going for it, Padres!!! I love it!!! It would have been $400M plus, easily. They did it at the right time because he's only signed through age-35. Eliminates a ton of the downside like a Pujols or Cabrera deal that goes until 40.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 14, 2022 21:12:42 GMT -8
Look, make no mistake, I am in favor of Seidler and Preller going all in. I just worry that this Tatis deal may blow up in their faces and be something that keeps us from catching the Dodgers, Mets, Braves, Yankees, etc. I'd like to see a San Diego team win a championship in my lifetime. We've lost the Chargers. We lost the Clippers a long time ago (thanks, Donald). If anything happens to set this team back... I'm just really concerned about the way this Tatis deal is starting to look bad. With that much dead money being owed if something happens and we can't get out of the contract? Can they legitimately contend if they're paying him that much per year when getting nothing out of him? I just know I hurt myself when I was 22, and the back injury was permanent. It's only gotten worse with time. I'm no doctor, I don't play one on TV, and I didn't stay at a Holiday In Express last night, so I don't know - what are the chances that his shoulder continually deteriorates year by year? If there's even a 10% chance of that, then my concerns are justified. A) The team has insurance against the deal, same as any other. B) If he violates the contract again, they can recoup money. C) The shoulder is what it is. It's a dislocation/subluxation. Surgery doesn't eliminate the problem, there's no easy answer.
|
|
|
Post by ignoranus on Aug 15, 2022 8:13:15 GMT -8
As a young man my Grandfather suffered from ringworm. At the age of 25 he was bald.
The luxurious locks sported by FT2 do NOT suggest, to me, that his head is infected with ringworms. Perhaps, something else is infecting him betwixt the ears?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2022 15:51:29 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 15, 2022 15:57:15 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Aug 15, 2022 16:24:27 GMT -8
I believe his father wasn't very helpful during the motorcycle incident, as well.
|
|
|
Post by junior on Aug 15, 2022 16:27:10 GMT -8
Not at all. In fact, mommy and daddy may actually be the nexus of Junior's lack of maturity. Of course, you're going to try to stick up for your kid, but just accept the consequences instead of spouting all the recriminations. All the fool had to do was report to the team doctor, show them the rash, and have them prescribe something safe and effective. He was self-medicating, and who knows what other kind of self-medication he's prescribed himself… could easily have been involved in his off-season accident. Now they plan to "tour" DR and "talk to players"? What could possibly go wrong over there - with no supervision.
|
|
|
Post by junior on Aug 16, 2022 11:31:16 GMT -8
I keep coming back to Manny's comment - though he isn't baggage free, either … “He hasn’t been part of our team all year, and we’ve gotten this far without him…" This is exactly right. And well stated, too. What is really incredible is that they reloaded with a player like Juan Soto. Junior's been replaced.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Aug 16, 2022 11:33:44 GMT -8
I keep coming back to Manny's comment - though he isn't baggage free, either … “He hasn’t been part of our team all year, and we’ve gotten this far without him…" This is exactly right. And well stated, too. What is really incredible is that they reloaded with a player like Juan Soto. Junior's been replaced. Also, Drury's really helped fill that void, as well. We've also done well without Bell getting anything close to hot, yet.
|
|