|
|
Post by FULL_MONTY on Jan 11, 2024 22:01:52 GMT -8
Zeigler does like to revel in SDSU’s expansion misfortune. A reverse merger is never happening. Too much dead weight. The Pac 2 has $250 million . $67. 5 million for the top 6 MWC teams is doable. The Pac 2 can also loan the MWC schools money to cover the exit fees. I love that the only person quoted is the MWC commissioner. Besides not concrete is more than a year away. Seems like everything is changing every 6 months. Florida State has started the ball rolling by suing the ACC on their fees. I think we will see a MW team or teams sue the MW as well. Can you imagine joining a league or association where you are financially prohibited from leaving? It’s because those types of clauses are generally unenforceable, imo. We shall see what transpires, but I see this heading to court at some point. |
|
|
|
Post by aztecsrule72001 on Jan 11, 2024 22:10:46 GMT -8
18 million is way too optimistic/delusional. The Networks don't care if it's the only Western based major FBS conference they care if people are going to watch, that's it. I think the AAC is a good equivalent for the new PAC and I believe their original teams get 7-8M each. So I'm thinking 6-12M per school (depends on how many MW schools they add) is the range we're looking at. Anything more than 12M and I'd be thrilled if I was the PAC. The AAC is not close to being as attractive as a new P8 would be. The AAC is full of deadweight which brings no value, dragging the average payouts way down. They also directly compete with the other major conferences for time slots. The P8 would be competing with just 4 schools from Fox, and a couple in the B12, plus a depleted MWC. Don't know if it'd be $18M, but it wouldn't be $6M either. Probably somewhere in the middle, like $12-$14M and, unlike the AAC, the P8 wouldn't require each school to have to pay for all their own production costs. The TV deal for the AAC was before they got poached of all those schools, that's why I said "original teams" not the newly added CUSA schools. If that AAC conference (before recent poaching) was worth $7-8M per school why would a new PAC be worth almost double that? I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see why the networks would want to pay that much of a premium when they could just low ball the PAC and pay the MWC 8M and get a similar product and force Oregon St. and Washington St. to join. You're basically banking on a network seeing significantly more value in the PAC brand and willing to take the risk to rebuild the conference. Again I hope I'm wrong but after what we went through last year I'm sure no one can blame me for being a bit of a pessimist. |
|
|
|
Post by aztech on Jan 11, 2024 23:57:05 GMT -8
The AAC is not close to being as attractive as a new P8 would be. The AAC is full of deadweight which brings no value, dragging the average payouts way down. They also directly compete with the other major conferences for time slots. The P8 would be competing with just 4 schools from Fox, and a couple in the B12, plus a depleted MWC. Don't know if it'd be $18M, but it wouldn't be $6M either. Probably somewhere in the middle, like $12-$14M and, unlike the AAC, the P8 wouldn't require each school to have to pay for all their own production costs. The TV deal for the AAC was before they got poached of all those schools, that's why I said "original teams" not the newly added CUSA schools. If that AAC conference (before recent poaching) was worth $7-8M per school why would a new PAC be worth almost double that? I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see why the networks would want to pay that much of a premium when they could just low ball the PAC and pay the MWC 8M and get a similar product and force Oregon St. and Washington St. to join. You're basically banking on a network seeing significantly more value in the PAC brand and willing to take the risk to rebuild the conference. Again I hope I'm wrong but after what we went through last year I'm sure no one can blame me for being a bit of a pessimist. If CalFord comes back and SDSU/UNLV are invited, that alone is a bigger media market than the entire MWC. |
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Jan 12, 2024 9:40:14 GMT -8
The AAC is not close to being as attractive as a new P8 would be. The AAC is full of deadweight which brings no value, dragging the average payouts way down. They also directly compete with the other major conferences for time slots. The P8 would be competing with just 4 schools from Fox, and a couple in the B12, plus a depleted MWC. Don't know if it'd be $18M, but it wouldn't be $6M either. Probably somewhere in the middle, like $12-$14M and, unlike the AAC, the P8 wouldn't require each school to have to pay for all their own production costs. The TV deal for the AAC was before they got poached of all those schools, that's why I said "original teams" not the newly added CUSA schools. If that AAC conference (before recent poaching) was worth $7-8M per school why would a new PAC be worth almost double that? I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see why the networks would want to pay that much of a premium when they could just low ball the PAC and pay the MWC 8M and get a similar product and force Oregon St. and Washington St. to join. You're basically banking on a network seeing significantly more value in the PAC brand and willing to take the risk to rebuild the conference. Again I hope I'm wrong but after what we went through last year I'm sure no one can blame me for being a bit of a pessimist. The AAC was $7M+, minus production costs, because they have a ton of deadweight. They're adding multiple schools to the mix who add nothing but are getting equal shares, even with Houston, UCF, etc. If you took only the top 8 team from the AAC, like the plan is for the P2+6, their per share payouts would be much higher. If we only had the top 6 teams in the MWC, not 12, the value per school would be much higher. With the P2+6, the MWC virtually goes away from a competitive viewing perspective, and opens the pocket of the media partners to make it happen. |
|
|
|
Post by Den60 on Jan 12, 2024 9:44:52 GMT -8
Zeigler does like to revel in SDSU’s expansion misfortune. A reverse merger is never happening. Too much dead weight. The Pac 2 has $250 million . $67. 5 million for the top 6 MWC teams is doable. The Pac 2 can also loan the MWC schools money to cover the exit fees. I love that the only person quoted is the MWC commissioner. Besides nothing concrete is more than a year away. Seems like everything is changing every 6 months anyway. Again, the numbers are being created out of thin air despite the fact that the fees are called "Liquidated Damages" while the MWC admits trying to determine those damages is "difficult." In the "Liquidated Damages" section it says that payments must be "fair and reasonable." The MWC merely set the ceiling. I think the PAC2 can take 6 MWC schools for about $42M. That would be $21M from the PAC and $3.5M from each school. You definitely cannot prove $67.5M in damages to the remaining schools. |
|
|
|
Post by aztecalum on Jan 14, 2024 9:39:30 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by FULL_MONTY on Jan 14, 2024 12:23:45 GMT -8
It's amazing how poorly run certain former and current PAC12 teams are financially. CAL - Massive Debt UCLA - Massive Debt AZ - Massive Debt ASU - Massive Debt WSU - Massive Debt |
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Jan 14, 2024 21:49:57 GMT -8
The WSU HC is a candidate for the Arizona HC job - as are numerous MW HC from this past season UNLV - AFA- San Jose and others from around the country - key might be to be able to recruit in Texas
|
|
|
|
Post by aztecalum on Jan 16, 2024 11:06:02 GMT -8
Interesting points regarding poaching MW schools to rebuild Pac12 www.mercurynews.com/2024/01/13/mailbag-strategy-for-wsu-and-osu-poaching-penalty-for-mw-schools-cal-and-stanford-in-the-acc-and-more/With the hefty price to lure Mountain West teams into a rebuilt Pac-12, what’s the strategy for Washington State and Oregon State? ....However, one source with knowledge of the agreement described the penalty as “not enough to prevent anyone from leaving” the Mountain West to join the rebuilt Pac-12. Notably, the source added that the per-school cost (about $10 million) had been “hammered down” from the original proposal. Our guess: The Mountain West schools most vulnerable to getting left behind (San Jose State, Utah State, Nevada, Hawaii) pushed for a big number to dissuade the ‘Pac-2’ from poaching, while the schools likely to make the jump (San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State) insisted on what they viewed as a reasonable number. That said, the Hotline has yet to see a departure fee that cannot be negotiated down when it comes time for the departing schools to exit. Heck, the Pac-12 just reached a settlement, and it didn’t have an exit penalty. (That was one of many mistakes made over the years by the university presidents, who didn’t believe anyone would ever leave the conference.) All of which is to say the following: The stipulations within the agreement won’t stop WSU and OSU from poaching the top Mountain West football schools if that, in fact, becomes their strategy. Nothing will happen in the near term. For now, WSU and OSU will compete as a two-team conference with all eyes on the roiling ACC. |
|
|
|
Post by myownwords on Jan 16, 2024 11:43:06 GMT -8
Interesting points regarding poaching MW schools to rebuild Pac12 www.mercurynews.com/2024/01/13/mailbag-strategy-for-wsu-and-osu-poaching-penalty-for-mw-schools-cal-and-stanford-in-the-acc-and-more/With the hefty price to lure Mountain West teams into a rebuilt Pac-12, what’s the strategy for Washington State and Oregon State? ....However, one source with knowledge of the agreement described the penalty as “not enough to prevent anyone from leaving” the Mountain West to join the rebuilt Pac-12. Notably, the source added that the per-school cost (about $10 million) had been “hammered down” from the original proposal. Our guess: The Mountain West schools most vulnerable to getting left behind (San Jose State, Utah State, Nevada, Hawaii) pushed for a big number to dissuade the ‘Pac-2’ from poaching, while the schools likely to make the jump (San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State) insisted on what they viewed as a reasonable number. That said, the Hotline has yet to see a departure fee that cannot be negotiated down when it comes time for the departing schools to exit. Heck, the Pac-12 just reached a settlement, and it didn’t have an exit penalty. (That was one of many mistakes made over the years by the university presidents, who didn’t believe anyone would ever leave the conference.) All of which is to say the following: The stipulations within the agreement won’t stop WSU and OSU from poaching the top Mountain West football schools if that, in fact, becomes their strategy. Nothing will happen in the near term. For now, WSU and OSU will compete as a two-team conference with all eyes on the roiling ACC. We've seen and heard this refrain before over the past 18 months: Nothing is happening. Nothing to see here. Kliavkoff has left his mark, and his stink, in and on, the PAC. |
|
|
|
Post by aztech on Jan 16, 2024 13:02:23 GMT -8
Interesting points regarding poaching MW schools to rebuild Pac12 www.mercurynews.com/2024/01/13/mailbag-strategy-for-wsu-and-osu-poaching-penalty-for-mw-schools-cal-and-stanford-in-the-acc-and-more/With the hefty price to lure Mountain West teams into a rebuilt Pac-12, what’s the strategy for Washington State and Oregon State? ....However, one source with knowledge of the agreement described the penalty as “not enough to prevent anyone from leaving” the Mountain West to join the rebuilt Pac-12. Notably, the source added that the per-school cost (about $10 million) had been “hammered down” from the original proposal. Our guess: The Mountain West schools most vulnerable to getting left behind (San Jose State, Utah State, Nevada, Hawaii) pushed for a big number to dissuade the ‘Pac-2’ from poaching, while the schools likely to make the jump (San Diego State, Fresno State, Boise State) insisted on what they viewed as a reasonable number. That said, the Hotline has yet to see a departure fee that cannot be negotiated down when it comes time for the departing schools to exit. Heck, the Pac-12 just reached a settlement, and it didn’t have an exit penalty. (That was one of many mistakes made over the years by the university presidents, who didn’t believe anyone would ever leave the conference.) All of which is to say the following: The stipulations within the agreement won’t stop WSU and OSU from poaching the top Mountain West football schools if that, in fact, becomes their strategy. Nothing will happen in the near term. For now, WSU and OSU will compete as a two-team conference with all eyes on the roiling ACC. We've seen and heard this refrain before over the past 18 months: Nothing is happening. Nothing to see here. Kliavkoff has left his mark, and his stink, in and on, the PAC. Kliavkoff's contract expires in the Spring of 2026. He gets $1.5M/yr. The P2 is locked into the WCC for 2 years beginning this Fall so he'll be history if/when the P2 expands. However he'll probably get bought out beforehand. That means by then we'll know who they added as members for the new guy/gal to negotiate another media deal. |
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Jan 16, 2024 16:58:49 GMT -8
why does the P2 have to pay the current Commish if there is not anything to take care of - or is he working on the TV deal for 2026 although doubt anyone trusts him
|
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Jan 16, 2024 17:32:09 GMT -8
We've seen and heard this refrain before over the past 18 months: Nothing is happening. Nothing to see here. Kliavkoff has left his mark, and his stink, in and on, the PAC. Kliavkoff's contract expires in the Spring of 2026. He gets $1.5M/yr. The P2 is locked into the WCC for 2 years beginning this Fall so he'll be history if/when the P2 expands. However he'll probably get bought out beforehand. That means by then we'll know who they added as members for the new guy/gal to negotiate another media deal. I believe he's paid $3.5M/year, not $1.5M. His buyout is in the neighborhood of $7M+ unless they can justify "for cause" which will be tough to do given some of the decisions the president's made. Hopefully they're some incentive for him to negotiate a lower buyout & just walk away. |
|
|
|
Post by aztech on Jan 16, 2024 18:13:24 GMT -8
Kliavkoff's contract expires in the Spring of 2026. He gets $1.5M/yr. The P2 is locked into the WCC for 2 years beginning this Fall so he'll be history if/when the P2 expands. However he'll probably get bought out beforehand. That means by then we'll know who they added as members for the new guy/gal to negotiate another media deal. I believe he's paid $3.5M/year, not $1.5M. His buyout is in the neighborhood of $7M+ unless they can justify "for cause" which will be tough to do given some of the decisions the president's made. Hopefully they're some incentive for him to negotiate a lower buyout & just walk away. Yes, you're correct. He received about $1.8M which was prorated since he started in the Spring of '21. Anyway, I still think the P2 will buy him out when they get the official commits from their invitees. If they use him to negotiate a new media deal that would be the definition of insanity. |
|
|
|
Post by Den60 on Jan 16, 2024 18:29:32 GMT -8
It's amazing how poorly run certain former and current PAC12 teams are financially. CAL - Massive Debt UCLA - Massive Debt AZ - Massive Debt ASU - Massive Debt WSU - Massive Debt UW was running a $9M/year budget deficit. |
|
|
|
Post by Den60 on Jan 16, 2024 18:34:27 GMT -8
I wonder if the B12 is going to feel getting Zona was worth it? In 45 years they never did much in football in the PAC and now they let their coach leave, likely taking a lot of players with him, because keeping him wasn't a priority, |
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Jan 17, 2024 8:21:40 GMT -8
Will be a lot more pressure on the new HC at Arizona although do not think they are that worried about Arizona as a good football team . Big 12 got 3 decent areas for TV Viewers ASU - Colorado - and Utah - Think ESPN takes the hit having to pay is it 32 million dollars for each P5 school that was added . Arizona has a vocal bunch for its basketball and was starting to get better for football .
Would be interesting to see what the viewership was for BYU - Cincy - UCF and Houston was for football
Also now being talked about is ACC football that ESPN will have to be shelling out money
The Pac 2 will be trying to figure out IF it can get a good TV deal for a new PAC - what teams / viewers will the TV networks want ?
As mentioned on their Commish - would the way he battled for the teams leaving the PAC be considered Cause to dismiss him - as he was stating things for the teams leaving and not the P2 or schools remaining in the PAC
|
|
|
|
Post by jdaztec on Jan 17, 2024 8:44:27 GMT -8
Thiking Navarez would be a good commish for new PAC whatever.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Jan 17, 2024 9:36:49 GMT -8
I believe he's paid $3.5M/year, not $1.5M. His buyout is in the neighborhood of $7M+ unless they can justify "for cause" which will be tough to do given some of the decisions the president's made. Hopefully they're some incentive for him to negotiate a lower buyout & just walk away. Yes, you're correct. He received about $1.8M which was prorated since he started in the Spring of '21. Anyway, I still think the P2 will buy him out when they get the official commits from their invitees. If they use him to negotiate a new media deal that would be the definition of insanity. They'll buy him out within the next 3-4 weeks. They're not waiting years. |
|
|
|
Post by standiego on Jan 17, 2024 11:38:37 GMT -8
is there any information who might be handling the P2 in Media Bids for the Conference - realize it could be a couple of years away but that remains the key for the new PAC and possibly the teams that might get invited - as has been the case Viewership and possibly what businesses that might buy local ads for the broadcasts
|
|
