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Post by aztecsrule72001 on Jan 10, 2024 17:57:54 GMT -8
As the only Western based major FBS conference the new Pac should be worth somewhere between $10 million and $18 million per school per year, depending on the actual schools involved. Most likely somewhere around $12 million per school (based on my wild guess). 18 million is way too optimistic/delusional. The Networks don't care if it's the only Western based major FBS conference they care if people are going to watch, that's it. I think the AAC is a good equivalent for the new PAC and I believe their original teams get 7-8M each. So I'm thinking 6-12M per school (depends on how many MW schools they add) is the range we're looking at. Anything more than 12M and I'd be thrilled if I was the PAC. |
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Post by Boise Aztec on Jan 10, 2024 18:02:27 GMT -8
Since when has a school challenged their conference and vice versa re: movement? There is no precedent for this. Individual movement for players, sure, but breaking ironclad media contracts, not so much. The ACC can easily prove massive damage if the contract is voided. MASSIVE! FSU entered into an agreement & was perfectly happy...until just recently. FSU had an undefeated season & was in consideration for the CFP while being in the ACC. Clemson's won national titles. How is the ACC damaging them? FSU is mot trying to break a media contract. They are looking to break their agreement with the ACC. The ACC has the exit penalty in their bylaws with the ACC members. The exit clause fees are essentially a liquidated damages clause which is what will be tested. It has not been tested in the realm of college athletics, but I can’t imagine they won’t utilize the same principles and limit the exit fees to actual damages. The ACC is going to have a hard time demonstrating $549M in actual damages. JMO. Maybe… but the exit fee is only a portion of the $~$500m it would take to leave… It is also going to be hard to say they “didn’t know” when they had inside council and multiple outside council look at the contracts they sign… judges tend to look for folks being taken advantage of… and FSU knew exactly what they were doing… |
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Post by sdcoug on Jan 10, 2024 18:02:31 GMT -8
Since when has a school challenged their conference and vice versa re: movement? There is no precedent for this. Individual movement for players, sure, but breaking ironclad media contracts, not so much. The ACC can easily prove massive damage if the contract is voided. MASSIVE! FSU entered into an agreement & was perfectly happy...until just recently. FSU had an undefeated season & was in consideration for the CFP while being in the ACC. Clemson's won national titles. How is the ACC damaging them? FSU is mot trying to break a media contract. They are looking to break their agreement with the ACC. The ACC has the exit penalty in their bylaws with the ACC members. The exit clause fees are essentially a liquidated damages clause which is what will be tested. It has not been tested in the realm of college athletics, but I can’t imagine they won’t utilize the same principles and limit the exit fees to actual damages. The ACC is going to have a hard time demonstrating $549M in actual damages. JMO. $442M of that fee is directly related to the media contract. Specifically, "$429 million in forfeited media rights under its grant-of-rights agreement with the league through 2036, calculated at $33 million per year." Plus another "$13M for unreimbursed broadcast fees". The only exit penalty which isn't directly tied to their media agreement is the "$130 withdrawal penalty, calculated as three times the ACC's $43.3 million operating budget in 2023". If FSU wants to fight the $130M of the $549M, good luck to them. Fighting the fee tied to the media contract may be tougher. JMO. |
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Post by sdcoug on Jan 10, 2024 18:09:55 GMT -8
As the only Western based major FBS conference the new Pac should be worth somewhere between $10 million and $18 million per school per year, depending on the actual schools involved. Most likely somewhere around $12 million per school (based on my wild guess). 18 million is way too optimistic/delusional. The Networks don't care if it's the only Western based major FBS conference they care if people are going to watch, that's it. I think the AAC is a good equivalent for the new PAC and I believe their original teams get 7-8M each. So I'm thinking 6-12M per school (depends on how many MW schools they add) is the range we're looking at. Anything more than 12M and I'd be thrilled if I was the PAC. The AAC is not close to being as attractive as a new P8 would be. The AAC is full of deadweight which brings no value, dragging the average payouts way down. They also directly compete with the other major conferences for time slots. The P8 would be competing with just 4 schools from Fox, and a couple in the B12, plus a depleted MWC. Don't know if it'd be $18M, but it wouldn't be $6M either. Probably somewhere in the middle, like $12-$14M and, unlike the AAC, the P8 wouldn't require each school to have to pay for all their own production costs. |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jan 10, 2024 18:18:55 GMT -8
FSU is mot trying to break a media contract. They are looking to break their agreement with the ACC. The ACC has the exit penalty in their bylaws with the ACC members. The exit clause fees are essentially a liquidated damages clause which is what will be tested. It has not been tested in the realm of college athletics, but I can’t imagine they won’t utilize the same principles and limit the exit fees to actual damages. The ACC is going to have a hard time demonstrating $549M in actual damages. JMO. $442M of that fee is directly related to the media contract. Specifically, "$429 million in forfeited media rights under its grant-of-rights agreement with the league through 2036, calculated at $33 million per year." Plus another "$13M for unreimbursed broadcast fees". The only exit penalty which isn't directly tied to their media agreement is the "$130 withdrawal penalty, calculated as three times the ACC's $43.3 million operating budget in 2023". If FSU wants to fight the $130M of the $549M, good luck to them. Fighting the fee tied to the media contract may be tougher. JMO. I understand it’s two parts, but they are essentially the same issue, liquidated damages. What will be the actual damages from FSU not being a part of the media contract? We shall see. The contract between the ACC and ESPN may be ironclad, but the bylaws may not be. What will really mitigate the actual damages for the ACC and the FSU is that the media contract does not go through 2036. It seems the ACC made a dogs meat breakfast of this situation as much as FSU. I think these exit fees will be reduced substantially. JMO. |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jan 10, 2024 18:23:33 GMT -8
FSU is mot trying to break a media contract. They are looking to break their agreement with the ACC. The ACC has the exit penalty in their bylaws with the ACC members. The exit clause fees are essentially a liquidated damages clause which is what will be tested. It has not been tested in the realm of college athletics, but I can’t imagine they won’t utilize the same principles and limit the exit fees to actual damages. The ACC is going to have a hard time demonstrating $549M in actual damages. JMO. Maybe… but the exit fee is only a portion of the $~$500m it would take to leave… It is also going to be hard to say they “didn’t know” when they had inside council and multiple outside council look at the contracts they sign… judges tend to look for folks being taken advantage of… and FSU knew exactly what they were doing… FSU is not going to walk away and pay nothing but judges all the time reduce the amount of liquidated damages in contracts to amounts closer to actual damages. I think it’s why the exit fee on the PAC contract essential set the exit for the members to $5.5M which is the old exit amount and then shifted a slightly reduced balance to the PAC. JMO. |
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Post by Boise Aztec on Jan 10, 2024 18:31:12 GMT -8
Maybe… but the exit fee is only a portion of the $~$500m it would take to leave… It is also going to be hard to say they “didn’t know” when they had inside council and multiple outside council look at the contracts they sign… judges tend to look for folks being taken advantage of… and FSU knew exactly what they were doing… FSU is not going to walk away and pay nothing but judges all the time reduce the amount of liquidated damages in contracts to amounts closer to actual damages. I think it’s why the exit fee on the PAC contract essential set the exit for the members to $5.5M which is the old exit amount and then shifted a slightly reduced balance to the PAC. JMO. Fair… if the judge says… $350m. Do they leave? |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jan 10, 2024 19:13:35 GMT -8
FSU is not going to walk away and pay nothing but judges all the time reduce the amount of liquidated damages in contracts to amounts closer to actual damages. I think it’s why the exit fee on the PAC contract essential set the exit for the members to $5.5M which is the old exit amount and then shifted a slightly reduced balance to the PAC. JMO. Fair… if the judge says… $350m. Do they leave? That’s a great question. If FSU can obtain $60M in media rights. I don’t think they leave. It would take 12 years to break even. And in that 12 year period, it could all go to hell in a hand basket. They would need the exit fee to be reduced to $150M or less. JMO. |
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Post by Den60 on Jan 10, 2024 19:24:31 GMT -8
They will be lucky to get $8M/team. Which if a 4-5+ year deal would be worth leaving the MWC for and paying half the penalty. I think the exit fee would be in the $7-7.5M range and we should get credit for what we are leaving behind in NCAA credits. However, if the P2 takes 9 MWC teams what's to keep them from voting to roll back or eliminate the exit fee? Also, can the MWC sign a new media deal if some 6 MWC teams want to leave for the PAC? |
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Post by Den60 on Jan 10, 2024 19:29:10 GMT -8
As the only Western based major FBS conference the new Pac should be worth somewhere between $10 million and $18 million per school per year, depending on the actual schools involved. Most likely somewhere around $12 million per school (based on my wild guess). Back when it was the PAC4 and there was talking of taking 4 MWC programs and 4 AAC programs (Tulane, SMU, Rice, UTSA) there were sources that said a media contract would be in the range of $10.8M. Calford bailed and SMU is now out of the conversation. Not sure how many AAC teams are going to want to play to leave the AAC for the PAC? |
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Post by 94sdsu on Jan 10, 2024 22:18:29 GMT -8
As the only Western based major FBS conference the new Pac should be worth somewhere between $10 million and $18 million per school per year, depending on the actual schools involved. Most likely somewhere around $12 million per school (based on my wild guess). Back when it was the PAC4 and there was talking of taking 4 MWC programs and 4 AAC programs (Tulane, SMU, Rice, UTSA) there were sources that said a media contract would be in the range of $10.8M. Calford bailed and SMU is now out of the conversation. Not sure how many AAC teams are going to want to play to leave the AAC for the PAC? None, now that’s its down to two. The two remaining schools are no better than MW schools, they’ve just been glorified by being part of the PAC 12, but reality is now upon them. |
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Post by sdcoug on Jan 11, 2024 9:59:12 GMT -8
Maybe… but the exit fee is only a portion of the $~$500m it would take to leave… It is also going to be hard to say they “didn’t know” when they had inside council and multiple outside council look at the contracts they sign… judges tend to look for folks being taken advantage of… and FSU knew exactly what they were doing… FSU is not going to walk away and pay nothing but judges all the time reduce the amount of liquidated damages in contracts to amounts closer to actual damages. I think it’s why the exit fee on the PAC contract essential set the exit for the members to $5.5M which is the old exit amount and then shifted a slightly reduced balance to the PAC. JMO.?? The P12 didn't have a media contract or GOR in place. How is that applicable in any way? The $65M in fees to be split among the traitor 10 is solely to cover future liabilities they would have been on the hook for. Texas & Okie negotiated a $100M fee to leave early, $50M each, with an expiring media contract on the horizon. Also unlike the ACC. |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jan 11, 2024 10:09:04 GMT -8
FSU is not going to walk away and pay nothing but judges all the time reduce the amount of liquidated damages in contracts to amounts closer to actual damages. I think it’s why the exit fee on the PAC contract essential set the exit for the members to $5.5M which is the old exit amount and then shifted a slightly reduced balance to the PAC. JMO.?? The P12 didn't have a media contract or GOR in place. How is that applicable in any way? The $65M in fees to be split among the traitor 10 is solely to cover future liabilities they would have been on the hook for. Texas & Okie negotiated a $100M fee to leave early, $50M each, with an expiring media contract on the horizon. Also unlike the ACC. I am referring to the PAC contract with the MW that outlines a $10.0M exit fee for a departing me members and then a $5.5M fee to the departing member school. The exit fee for the MW team was reduced from 3x to $5.5M which is very defensible in court versus the 3x fee. The MW is still going to receive $17-$18M but the majority of that fee is going to come from the PAC 2 where they will position the PAC piece as just consideration for the scheduling agreement. This puts the MW in a better spot than trying to defend the 3x exit fee. |
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Post by sdcoug on Jan 11, 2024 10:38:19 GMT -8
?? The P12 didn't have a media contract or GOR in place. How is that applicable in any way? The $65M in fees to be split among the traitor 10 is solely to cover future liabilities they would have been on the hook for. Texas & Okie negotiated a $100M fee to leave early, $50M each, with an expiring media contract on the horizon. Also unlike the ACC. I am referring to the PAC contract with the MW that outlines a $10.0M exit fee for a departing me members and then a $5.5M fee to the departing member school. The exit fee for the MW team was reduced from 3x to $5.5M which is very defensible in court versus the 3x fee. The MW is still going to receive $17-$18M but the majority of that fee is going to come from the PAC 2 where they will position the PAC piece as just consideration for the scheduling agreement. This puts the MW in a better spot than trying to defend the 3x exit fee. Again, the MWC's media deal will have expired by the time the teams leave for the P2+6. This new deal is the only deal in place, unlike the ACC which has several years remaining on their media contract. You're comparing apples to oranges. The ACC fees are significantly higher due to the GOR's in place. |
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Post by standiego on Jan 11, 2024 13:04:58 GMT -8
can not plan on Stanford or CAL returning to the PAC - if they do it would be a bonus
so OSU / WSU have to plan the rebuild of the PAC accordingly they have some decent people working on that - with as hopeful of a TV Deal as possible . Would guess as it has been what schools have a good amount of TV watchers . so adding schools would be done accordingly - with considerations for travel costs and times for the athletes but bottom line Money is key for a rebuilt PAC
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Post by Den60 on Jan 11, 2024 15:31:32 GMT -8
FSU is not going to walk away and pay nothing but judges all the time reduce the amount of liquidated damages in contracts to amounts closer to actual damages. I think it’s why the exit fee on the PAC contract essential set the exit for the members to $5.5M which is the old exit amount and then shifted a slightly reduced balance to the PAC. JMO.?? The P12 didn't have a media contract or GOR in place. How is that applicable in any way? The $65M in fees to be split among the traitor 10 is solely to cover future liabilities they would have been on the hook for. Texas & Okie negotiated a $100M fee to leave early, $50M each, with an expiring media contract on the horizon. Also unlike the ACC. However, if they take the top 6 MWC programs then it would be stronger than the MWC as a whole. making a "best of the rest" conference could be enticing if the numbers work. |
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Post by Den60 on Jan 11, 2024 15:38:12 GMT -8
FSU is not going to walk away and pay nothing but judges all the time reduce the amount of liquidated damages in contracts to amounts closer to actual damages. I think it’s why the exit fee on the PAC contract essential set the exit for the members to $5.5M which is the old exit amount and then shifted a slightly reduced balance to the PAC. JMO.?? The P12 didn't have a media contract or GOR in place. How is that applicable in any way? The $65M in fees to be split among the traitor 10 is solely to cover future liabilities they would have been on the hook for. Texas & Okie negotiated a $100M fee to leave early, $50M each, with an expiring media contract on the horizon. Also unlike the ACC. While there is no "exit fee" in their bylaws, each departing school is paying to leave. Exit fees are to set the top number but no one every pays the full amount. When I have compared the MWC exit fee to that of the AAC or B12 then I get to $7-7.5M. I wonder if saying the exit fee for a MWC team to leave at $5.5M sets a precedence. Would be funny if the B12 decided to add SDSU and either UNLV or Fresno at a 1/3 share for 3 years. |
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Jan 11, 2024 20:41:47 GMT -8
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Post by jdaztec on Jan 11, 2024 21:14:50 GMT -8
If it were 9 who would be left behind ? I would think Nevada, Wyoming and ?
Many say Hawaii and SJSU but I think both have potential.
SJSU -The Bay Area / Silicone Valley would be impotent if The Spartans could take advantage of it.
Hawaii- Makes the Conference unique and is a great travel location and is the only D1 program in the state.
If I had to choose I would like to eliminate elevation games ( ie Wyoming / AF ? / Nevada ?) against teams in smaller markets that don't add a lot.
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Post by laaztec on Jan 11, 2024 21:31:10 GMT -8
Zeigler does like to revel in SDSU’s expansion misfortune. A reverse merger is never happening. Too much dead weight. The Pac 2 has $250 million . $67. 5 million for the top 6 MWC teams is doable. The Pac 2 can also loan the MWC schools money to cover the exit fees. I love that the only person quoted is the MWC commissioner. Besides nothing concrete is more than a year away. Seems like everything is changing every 6 months anyway. |
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