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Post by bnastyaztecs on Jun 23, 2021 14:46:02 GMT -8
I think that what the Left has said for generations, that the United States is a horrible place that has no redeeming qualities, is a sure-fire recipe for the destruction of this country. Does anyone with even a sliver of historical knowledge not understand that ALL countries are imperfect, that ALL governments are guilty of doing terrible things, both to their citizens as well as to citizens of other countries? How about Belgium, that peaceful little country in Western Europe. Pretty nice people live there, wouldn't you say? Well, perhaps we should study what was done by Belgium to the inhabitants of the Belgium Congo. And then there is France; what a picture postcard of a place that is (took a train ride from Spain to Paris once, and saw first hand how wonderful the countryside is). Great history of art, cuisine, and literature (read the book A Distant Mirror and you will appreciate how important France has been to the development of all we treasure in Western Culture). Yet it wasn't too many years ago that France bombed a Greenpeace boat that the French decided was causing them trouble. Deliberately bombed and sank the Greenpeace Warrior, killing one! And then there is Australia. How I wish that country were located next to Hawaii! Never been there, but my opinion of Australia and its people is very positive. On the other hand, Aboriginal people there were segregated from other non-Aboriginal people until the 1960s. Theatres and hospitals had sections roped off for Aboriginal people, they were often refused drinks in hotels, and schools could refuse to educate their children. Gee, that sounds like the South during segregation, doesn't it? I have chosen three countries that most Americans admire, and with good reason. But even in these cases, their histories are not devoid of some very black marks. Here's the basic question. Are the generations to come in America going get a balanced view of the U.S.A., both good and bad aspects? We should never ignore slavery, segregation, the internment of Japanese Americans in WWII, etc. But if the focus of our education is mostly on teaching kids how bad this country is, I fear for our future. Yes, let's talk about what Jackson did to the Indian tribes and how we treated the Filipinos during Teddy's tenure in office. But let's also teach them about the Candy Bombers and what Lincoln said about the South in his second inaugural. Many who have responded in this thread have no trouble listing America's flaws. I'm not seeing the same eagerness to list what's good about America. I'm reminded of something that happened in England in the 30s. A group of students, I think it was at Cambridge, signed a petition stating that they would never fight to defend King and country. Apparently they could see nothing in their country worth fighting for. That was about 1936. I understand that at least a few of them changed course and fought the Nazis enthusiastically just a few years later. Apparently when it came right down to it, they decided that Western style democracy was after all worth fighting for, warts and all. I hope we never are in the position to find out who does and who doesn't believe that the U.S.A. is worth fighting for. AzWm PS: Why is it that so many people from all over the world want to live here? OK...I agree with you America is great...the greatest country there every was...the question is HOW did it get this way?...this is where the old narrative/propaganda is beginning to clash with the new narrative...the old 1940-50s narrative was enforced and sustained because whites had full control of it and its disseminations to the masses...Blacks, Asians and Hispanics had no say or choice to question it so they had to go along. Fast forward today...the white majority is dwindling and will shortly be surpassed by minorities (Blacks, Asians and Hispanics)...as a matter of fact...today there are more minority children in the first grade than whites...and by 2040...if not sooner...whites for the first time will be the minority...whites never had to deal with or what others thought before...that was then...now minorities are more each day assuming positions of power/influence on how this country is run and its narrative...minorities now have the power to question the majority (white's) story on how America became great...they can look whites in their eyes and challenge them...the questioning and challenging...which whites had never in the history of this country had respond to or care about...because of their absolute power...disturbs racist bigots, conservatives and Republicans to no end...a lot of whites feel their authority is being challenged...and if nothing is done in short time...the conservative racist bigot and maybe some regular whites feel their protected status will be loss...this is why there is a "culture war" going on right now...the fight over America's narrative...the racist bigots white supremacist conservative Republican wants to maintain the status quo of white-centric ...this why the chimp out (MAGA, Jan 6th, critical race, immigration, voter suppression etc.) outrage is occurring...because of loss of white control/power, white supremacy slipping, competition for the narrative challenge and their message being exposed daily for its lies...they feel the unwritten contract with America is becoming void...the one where no matter how poor, uneducated or inept a white was...s/he was still better than any minority...especially Blacks...therefore they fear the nostalgic white-centric narrative/image of America being the land of the free while at the same time being the home of the slave, prejudice, discrimination and segregation is being exposed/ridiculed for its hypocrisy. In closing, all that is being asked by American minorities is to stop the gloss over of our true history...a lot of them made this country great, were screwed over and not included in America's narrative...they are coming into power like it or not...and they can compete for the story told...now it's a fight over the future and direction of this country...one that believes in democracy...or one who believes in white supremacy...because democracy and white supremacy does not mix...the former means all Americans have a say in this country...the other is whites have the final/ultimate say over everything this country's future...at least 60 percent of whites in the country want the latter...so it pits them against ALL minorities and 36 percent of whites who love democracy, America and all for which it stands...... |
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Post by azson on Jun 23, 2021 15:58:04 GMT -8
You asked for suggestions, I gave you one, yet instead of engaging you come back with a hyperbolic non-sequitur. You wonder how we can fix the problem; maybe take a good look in the mirror? I have not read the book you cite and can therefore not comment on whether it would be an appropriate text book for public schools. I suppose you have read it, so maybe you could answer this question. Does the book you recommend give students a balanced view of the United States, covering the good and the bad aspects of our history? That's a serious question. Speaking of the teaching U.S. history, there is another point that merits consideration. What should be the main emphasis of such teaching? Since I view the United States of America as an imperfect yet great country (and here I use great in a positive sense), I would hope that what makes it great will be given special emphasis. Let's not gloss over slavery, Jackson's treatment of Indian tribes, shameful treatment of immigrants (Irish need not apply), etc. But I would hope the students studying our history would come away with an appreciation of why this experiment in self-government is to be treasured. I would hope that students would not be taught that that their country is just one long list of horrible human rights violations. When speaking of history, context is crucial. That's true whether you are referring to government or individuals. Let me offer Babe Ruth as an example. What was special about Ruth? One could point out, correctly, that he was an uneducated, drunken, womanizing man who failed 2/3 of the time when attempting to carry out his assigned athletic duties. Would that be a fair view of Babe Ruth? As I said, context is crucial. Babe Ruth had a lifetime batting average of .342, one of the highest in the history of the game. But that means that he was put out 2/3 of the time he came to the plate. So low a success rate in almost any other field would be considered atrocious. Context tells us that his success rate was extraordinary. Also missing is the fact that, almost single-handedly, he radically changed the game of baseball. And then there is the fact that Ruth would likely have been a Hall of Famer had he continued as a pitcher. I would hope that German students’ study of that nation’s history is not limited to the twelve year reign of one of history’s most vile humans. In the same fashion, I would hope that our students not be taught that slavery and segregation are all one needs to know about the history of America. My posts on this and similar topics tend to run long, so I will end for now. I’ll be satisfied with leaving this thought. Americans are either proud or ashamed of America. Thankfully, one does not have to think that the country has always been perfect to be proud of it. AzWm That's pretty much the point I was getting at. I was taught none of those items K-12 growing up in SD. How can we make progress in racial relations in the country when our education system leaves out the racist facets of its founding? |
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Post by uwphoto on Jun 24, 2021 8:04:39 GMT -8
Can't help myself..since you mention Andrew Jackson atrocities against Native Americans..so Trump had a portrait of Andrew Jackson behind him when he invited the "Code Talkers" to the White House... just really insensitive and worse that that....DUMB!! Can you think of anything or anyone without bringing up Donald Trump? AzWm Well, I thought that the Republicans would like to upgrade their reputation with minorities and get them on their side... if they ever want to win the popular vote again. So instead, they go with a complete jack ass who keeps up a portrait of Jackson while having the Navajo Code Talkers to the White House. Of course he talks about himself the whole time they are there. This is what the right wingers want... a dufous who makes them feel that it can be 1950 and Playboy after Dark again. "I love the poorly educated"....for good reason. |
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Post by azson on Jun 24, 2021 9:31:39 GMT -8
As an Asian, I can say your post is a trash take on us based on first wave immigrants. Your rich Asian stereotype. Every single wave after the first wave, were mostly refugees and many are still stuck in poverty. Don't ever speak for us again when you come with tired trash & racist stereotypes. You ignore the multitude of contextual factors that led to the success of first wave Asians like not being refugees, having disposable income to move into middle class USA upon arrival and college degrees. It wasn't simply just being Asian as you implied. It is the progressive leftist that wollows in identity politics with racial groups as their stock in trade. Referring to people as monolithic groups absolutely diminishes the individual and/or the nuances within those race based groups but that is what the left seemingly demands. I was simply posing an argument in terms that the progressive leftist would get. Do you not see the assertion of "Whites" this and "Blacks" that as monolithic groups in all of this CRT cluelessness? Do you see the behavior of the individual as being determinative relative to racism or is it really about the stats and relative "power" of the racial group after all? If you say it is the former, then I agree with you. If you say it is the latter, then I don't see your point. You SO don't get the importance of CRT in modern society. Even General Milley, who I'm no fan of, gets it: |
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Post by ptsdthor on Jun 24, 2021 14:38:38 GMT -8
Yep, Asian Americans are pretty smart..thats why they voted against trump 63% to 31%. Wanna bet they don't buy the insurrection was "deep state" or was an inside job pushed by the FBI..as pushed by the trust baby from La Jolla Country Day. What do they know that you don't?? roll eyes. May I point out that for whom Asians voted in no way answers thor's point. His contention is that Asians have faced very serious societal barriers, arguably barriers similar to those faced by African Americans. I would especially point to the Boat People, most of whom arrived here several decades ago without even speaking English. Yet in general they have done pretty in well despite of the language and cultural handicaps they have faced. The point is this. Most of use face challenges as we grow up. Some people come from broken homes in which the parents have done little to prepare them for the adult world. Some have learning or physical handicaps. And, of course, minority Americans face additional handicaps that I never had to face. But whatever situation one finds him or herself in, it is possible to succeed. We need to encourage our youth, no matter of what demographic group, to concentrate of those things that they have the power to change. How about getting an education? How about not starting families until one is capable of taking on such a responsibility? The many minority Americans who have done well attest to the fact that it can be done. As I have said before, the government can do some things that help minorities (and by extension, all Americans), but it cannot by fiat erase prejudice. I hope we never reach the point at which our message to minority youths is that they are helpless, unable to make decisions that will give them the best chance to reach their goals in live. AzWm Asians pushed against and voted against the racist Prop 16 at significant levels. Voting for Trump isn't necessarily the demarcation line for supporting the absurd tenants of CRT or not. And to think/say that Prop 16 wasn't inspired by the SJW/CRT crowd is also absurd. So the race baiters have to make up a false narrative that seemingly has America run by a bunch subconscious KKKers that look out specifically to give African Americans an extraordinarily hard time in their lives (Latinx less so for some reason) while at the same time treating Asians better than they do their own race.  At what point does this absurdity not bother some? |
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Post by ptsdthor on Jun 25, 2021 5:53:51 GMT -8
It is the progressive leftist that wollows in identity politics with racial groups as their stock in trade. Referring to people as monolithic groups absolutely diminishes the individual and/or the nuances within those race based groups but that is what the left seemingly demands. I was simply posing an argument in terms that the progressive leftist would get. Do you not see the assertion of "Whites" this and "Blacks" that as monolithic groups in all of this CRT cluelessness? Do you see the behavior of the individual as being determinative relative to racism or is it really about the stats and relative "power" of the racial group after all? If you say it is the former, then I agree with you. If you say it is the latter, then I don't see your point. You SO don't get the importance of CRT in modern society. Even General Milley, who I'm no fan of, gets it: So I noticed that he referred to the political protest at the Capitol not as a political protest but to a White race riot. I see why he still had got his gig. We let our soldiers read Mao and Marx to help them know our ENEMIES better, not to train them in econ or social justice. How does CRT/Equity work in the military? Promotions are not based on merit but on skin color? Who gets to take the pill box? The White platoon so they can atone for the sins of our forefathers? Nothing could go wrong there.... |
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Post by uwphoto on Jun 25, 2021 10:11:45 GMT -8
You SO don't get the importance of CRT in modern society. Even General Milley, who I'm no fan of, gets it: So I noticed that he referred to the political protest at the Capitol not as a political protest but to a White race riot. I see why he still had got his gig. We let our soldiers read Mao and Marx to help them know our ENEMIES better, not to train them in econ or social justice. How does CRT/Equity work in the military? Promotions are not based on merit but on skin color? Who gets to take the pill box? The White platoon so they can atone for the sins of our forefathers? Nothing could go wrong there.... Thats ok, the trust baby from La Jolla Country Day called him a "stupid pig"..on your favorite network. Nice respect for the military. The general has actually been shot at..TC's brave move ..jumping off the clam...or so he claims. Too bad it wasn't a minus tide. |
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Post by azson on Jun 25, 2021 10:28:51 GMT -8
You SO don't get the importance of CRT in modern society. Even General Milley, who I'm no fan of, gets it: I see why he still had got his gig. We let our soldiers read Mao and Marx to help them know our ENEMIES better, not to train them in econ or social justice. How does CRT/Equity work in the military? Promotions are not based on merit but on skin color? Who gets to take the pill box? The White platoon so they can atone for the sins of our forefathers? Nothing could go wrong there.... Neither of you is correct, as it was a nothing short of an insurrection and/or coup d’état. "Political protest" is laughable but predictable. In other news, I see that Laura Ingraham is calling for the military to be de-funded due to this nothing-burger. The pro-military/Blue Lives Matter party show their hypocrisy once again. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 25, 2021 11:25:16 GMT -8
This is a waste of my time, I realize, but I'm going to share this opinion all the same. The events in DC on Jan 6th must be condemned without reservation. Nothing good can be said about the action's of the people who stormed the Capitol. Period.
On the other hand (and I realize that some believe that in the case of certain important national events there can be no "On the other hand"), it would be a big mistake to make more of event that is merited. At no point was there the slightest chance that Donald Trump was going to be given a second term.
At the absolute worst case (and this did not come close be happening) Trump would have been rebuffed had he ordered the military to intervene on his behalf.
Anything less that a successful military coup would have failed to overturn the 2020 election. That being the case, an unsuccessful attempt at a coup would have left so big a stain on the GOP that we would likely be in for Democratic rule for the next 20 or more years. There is a big enough stain as it is.
It is clear to me that the Democrats see the admittedly disturbing nature of the Jan. 6th riot as a golden opportunity to if destroy, or at least to very badly damage, the GOP. After all, to storm the Capitol is a direct attack on the Republic.
Still, it is not believable that the millions of voters who supported Donald Trump also support the Jan. 6th riot. I would suggest that interested citizens re-read Lincoln's second inaugural address. In that address there is expressed the finest example of American values. With malice toward none, with charity for all.
That is how those who supported Trump should be treated. Certainly not the way we treated leading Nazis at the Nuremburg Trial.
AzWm
PS: It is my understanding that at least some of those arrested on Jan. 6th have been help in solitary confinement for five months. Why?
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 25, 2021 12:49:59 GMT -8
A grandmother has just been sentenced to, I think, 100 plus hours of community service for her part in the Jan. 6th incident. That sounds like an appropriate sentence, certainly not a harsh one.
I wonder if she is one who has been held in solitary confinement since Jan. 6th. I hope not. Anybody have any info on that?
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 25, 2021 16:24:01 GMT -8
I will try again. .... . . . compel citizens to think or act in approved ways. That worked pretty well in Nazi Germany in the 1930s. Please, not here. AzWm I'd start with our education system, i.e. start teaching history that includes the racist underbelly of the founding of the country, e.g. A People's History of the U.S. should be required reading in high school. But I'm sure a registered libertarian shudders at the thought of anything "required". Speaking of A People's History of the U.S., here's a reaction to that book. Wonder if you agree with it. Georgetown University history professor Michael Kazin argued that Zinn is too focused on class conflict, and wrongly attributes sinister motives to the American political elite. He characterized the book as an overly simplistic narrative of elite villains and oppressed people, with no attempt to understand historical actors in the context of the time in which they lived.
That's what I mean by context. Let me give you a further example. Thomas Edison is rightfully considered an American hero. But there are some pretty ugly chapters in his life story that few are aware of. Same for Albert Einstein. Let's strive for a balanced view of history. I understand that balanced my mean different things to different people. Henry Ford is a instructive case in point. His contribution to the industrial development of this country, and really to the whole world, is undisputed. On the other hand, it's hard to think kindly of him if you see a photo of him accepting an award given by Hitler's Germany. Bottom line about history to American kids. We do not want to present a sugar-coated version of it. On the other hand, we do not want kids to graduate thinking that there is no particular reason to be proud of their country. AzWm |
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Post by uwphoto on Jun 25, 2021 18:12:49 GMT -8
I'd start with our education system, i.e. start teaching history that includes the racist underbelly of the founding of the country, e.g. A People's History of the U.S. should be required reading in high school. But I'm sure a registered libertarian shudders at the thought of anything "required". Speaking of A People's History of the U.S., here's a reaction to that book. Wonder if you agree with it. Georgetown University history professor Michael Kazin argued that Zinn is too focused on class conflict, and wrongly attributes sinister motives to the American political elite. He characterized the book as an overly simplistic narrative of elite villains and oppressed people, with no attempt to understand historical actors in the context of the time in which they lived.
That's what I mean by context. Let me give you a further example. Thomas Edison is rightfully considered an American hero. But there are some pretty ugly chapters in his life story that few are aware of. Same for Albert Einstein. Let's strive for a balanced view of history. I understand that balanced my mean different things to different people. Henry Ford is a instructive case in point. His contribution to the industrial development of this country, and really to the whole world, is undisputed. On the other hand, it's hard to think kindly of him if you see a photo of him accepting an award given by Hitler's Germany. Bottom line about history to American kids. We do not want to present a sugar-coated version of it. On the other hand, we do not want kids to graduate thinking that there is no particular reason to be proud of their country. AzWm How can they be proud of their Country if they watch FOX news?? That little punk trust baby Carlson called General Milley a stupid pig on his show! Milley was appointed by trump..but you knew that. Trouble is Milley actually has a backbone. Carlson woulda got his ass beat at my high school. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Jun 26, 2021 16:31:38 GMT -8
So I noticed that he referred to the political protest at the Capitol not as a political protest but to a White race riot. I see why he still had got his gig. We let our soldiers read Mao and Marx to help them know our ENEMIES better, not to train them in econ or social justice. How does CRT/Equity work in the military? Promotions are not based on merit but on skin color? Who gets to take the pill box? The White platoon so they can atone for the sins of our forefathers? Nothing could go wrong there.... Neither of you is correct, as it was a nothing short of an insurrection and/or coup d’état. "Political protest" is laughable but predictable. In other news, I see that Laura Ingraham is calling for the military to be de-funded due to this nothing-burger. The pro-military/Blue Lives Matter party show their hypocrisy once again.
A coup d'etat indeedLink: Drag Show at US AFBUSAF's Lt. Col. Bryon McGarry says such activities are essential to the morale, cohesion, and readiness of the military. Watch a Drag Show to help a soldier get ready for combat! Who woulda thunk it? I'm sure Gen. Milley would say so too. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 26, 2021 16:54:42 GMT -8
Speaking of A People's History of the U.S., here's a reaction to that book. Wonder if you agree with it. Georgetown University history professor Michael Kazin argued that Zinn is too focused on class conflict, and wrongly attributes sinister motives to the American political elite. He characterized the book as an overly simplistic narrative of elite villains and oppressed people, with no attempt to understand historical actors in the context of the time in which they lived.
That's what I mean by context. Let me give you a further example. Thomas Edison is rightfully considered an American hero. But there are some pretty ugly chapters in his life story that few are aware of. Same for Albert Einstein. Let's strive for a balanced view of history. I understand that balanced my mean different things to different people. Henry Ford is a instructive case in point. His contribution to the industrial development of this country, and really to the whole world, is undisputed. On the other hand, it's hard to think kindly of him if you see a photo of him accepting an award given by Hitler's Germany. Bottom line about history to American kids. We do not want to present a sugar-coated version of it. On the other hand, we do not want kids to graduate thinking that there is no particular reason to be proud of their country. AzWm How can they be proud of their Country if they watch FOX news?? That little punk trust baby Carlson called General Milley a stupid pig on his show! Milley was appointed by trump..but you knew that. Trouble is Milley actually has a backbone. Carlson woulda got his ass beat at my high school. I watch Fox News and find it easy to be proud of the USA. I also recognize that there many negative chapters in the history of America and still find it easy to be proud of the USA. I do not require that my country be perfect in order for me to be proud of it. Regarding Fox News, I can understand why many are put off by Sean Hannity and a number of other their hosts. Those people are totally opposed to anything related to the left side of the political spectrum. But the straight Fox news reporters (Bret Baer, Kevin Corke, Claudia Cowan, Lauren Green, and others) are pretty good and try to present news in an even handed manner. In addition, there are people who appear on Fox who are clearly from the Left, or at least not identified as leaning one way or another. I refer to Marie Harf, Judith Miller, Donna Brazile, Dennis Kucinich, Leslie Marshall, Mo Elleithee, and others. I look in vain for such balance on MSNBC and CNN. The only Republicans I can remember seeing on those networks are those never-Trumpers who seem incapable of offering views that challenge the Left. I'd like to comment on something General Milley said recently. He said he reads Karl Marx to learn about Marxism. He also said he wants to understand White Rage. Okay, what is he going to read to understand "White Rage"? And just what is "White Rage"? My guess is that his use of the term "White Rage" is something that he feels will garner approval from his political superiors. He also said he is concerned about subversion in the military. Fine. I wonder how he defines subversion. And what is he going to do about it? Are members of the military who are identified as exhibiting subversive behavior going to be punished? Will they be subject to demotion? Perhaps they will have to attend reeducation sessions. If so, what will they have to do to be declared cured of unacceptable views? Or perhaps they will simply be given dishonorable discharges? The General has opened a can of worms with such talk. He needs to define precisely what he is concerned about and precisely what the military proposes to do about the problem. What bothers me the most is that the Chief of Staff should be more worried about our international enemies than he is about fellow Americans whose political views may be different from his own. AzWm PS: I'm still waiting for a reaction to my mention of the Candy Bombers. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jun 27, 2021 9:19:14 GMT -8
How can they be proud of their Country if they watch FOX news?? That little punk trust baby Carlson called General Milley a stupid pig on his show! Milley was appointed by trump..but you knew that. Trouble is Milley actually has a backbone. Carlson woulda got his ass beat at my high school. I watch Fox News and find it easy to be proud of the USA. I also recognize that there many negative chapters in the history of America and still find it easy to be proud of the USA. I do not require that my country be perfect in order for me to be proud of it. Regarding Fox News, I can understand why many are put off by Sean Hannity and a number of other their hosts. Those people are totally opposed to anything related to the left side of the political spectrum. But the straight Fox news reporters (Bret Baer, Kevin Corke, Claudia Cowan, Lauren Green, and others) are pretty good and try to present news in an even handed manner. In addition, there are people who appear on Fox who are clearly from the Left, or at least not identified as leaning one way or another. I refer to Marie Harf, Judith Miller, Donna Brazile, Dennis Kucinich, Leslie Marshall, Mo Elleithee, and others. I look in vain for such balance on MSNBC and CNN. The only Republicans I can remember seeing on those networks are those never-Trumpers who seem incapable of offering views that challenge the Left. I'd like to comment on something General Milley said recently. He said he reads Karl Marx to learn about Marxism. He also said he wants to understand White Rage. Okay, what is he going to read to understand "White Rage"? And just what is "White Rage"? My guess is that his use of the term "White Rage" is something that he feels will garner approval from his political superiors. He also said he is concerned about subversion in the military. Fine. I wonder how he defines subversion. And what is he going to do about it? Are members of the military who are identified as exhibiting subversive behavior going to be punished? Will they be subject to demotion? Perhaps they will have to attend reeducation sessions. If so, what will they have to do to be declared cured of unacceptable views? Or perhaps they will simply be given dishonorable discharges? The General has opened a can of worms with such talk. He needs to define precisely what he is concerned about and precisely what the military proposes to do about the problem. What bothers me the most is that the Chief of Staff should be more worried about our international enemies than he is about fellow Americans whose political views may be different from his own. AzWm PS: I'm still waiting for a reaction to my mention of the Candy Bombers. meanwhile FOX has been pushing the Big Lie for months and orange humpty dumpty is still pushing it for the "poorly educated". William Barr is saying that it is all "bull$#!+"...waiting for your reaction. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 27, 2021 12:58:54 GMT -8
I watch Fox News and find it easy to be proud of the USA. I also recognize that there many negative chapters in the history of America and still find it easy to be proud of the USA. I do not require that my country be perfect in order for me to be proud of it. Regarding Fox News, I can understand why many are put off by Sean Hannity and a number of other their hosts. Those people are totally opposed to anything related to the left side of the political spectrum. But the straight Fox news reporters (Bret Baer, Kevin Corke, Claudia Cowan, Lauren Green, and others) are pretty good and try to present news in an even handed manner. In addition, there are people who appear on Fox who are clearly from the Left, or at least not identified as leaning one way or another. I refer to Marie Harf, Judith Miller, Donna Brazile, Dennis Kucinich, Leslie Marshall, Mo Elleithee, and others. I look in vain for such balance on MSNBC and CNN. The only Republicans I can remember seeing on those networks are those never-Trumpers who seem incapable of offering views that challenge the Left. I'd like to comment on something General Milley said recently. He said he reads Karl Marx to learn about Marxism. He also said he wants to understand White Rage. Okay, what is he going to read to understand "White Rage"? And just what is "White Rage"? My guess is that his use of the term "White Rage" is something that he feels will garner approval from his political superiors. He also said he is concerned about subversion in the military. Fine. I wonder how he defines subversion. And what is he going to do about it? Are members of the military who are identified as exhibiting subversive behavior going to be punished? Will they be subject to demotion? Perhaps they will have to attend reeducation sessions. If so, what will they have to do to be declared cured of unacceptable views? Or perhaps they will simply be given dishonorable discharges? The General has opened a can of worms with such talk. He needs to define precisely what he is concerned about and precisely what the military proposes to do about the problem. What bothers me the most is that the Chief of Staff should be more worried about our international enemies than he is about fellow Americans whose political views may be different from his own. AzWm PS: I'm still waiting for a reaction to my mention of the Candy Bombers. Please cite examples of Fox hosts or reporters who declare that the 2020 was dishonest. Plenty of people do make that claim, but I don't recall any Fox regulars that do so. And who cares what Trump says? He has discredited himself totally after November. I think you and I agree on that. meanwhile FOX has been pushing the Big Lie for months and orange humpty dumpty is still pushing it for the "poorly educated". William Barr is saying that it is all "bull$#!+"...waiting for your reaction. I cannot remember when any of the Fox hosts or regular commentators have declared their belief that the 2020 election was fraudulent. Some have said that there were irregularities, but lots of people make that claim after most elections. But claims that Trump was cheated? Don't think so. Perhaps someone could cite cases were such an opinion was voiced by Fox regulars. I am still interested in people's reaction to what I said about Gen. Milley. I also hope to learn what people think of my remarks regarding Fox News as whole. AzWm PS: Still waiting for comments on the Candy Bombers. |
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Post by bnastyaztecs on Jun 28, 2021 12:27:57 GMT -8
Please cite examples of Fox hosts or reporters who declare that the 2020 was dishonest. Plenty of people do make that claim, but I don't recall any Fox regulars that do so. And who cares what Trump says? He has discredited himself totally after November. I think you and I agree on that. meanwhile FOX has been pushing the Big Lie for months and orange humpty dumpty is still pushing it for the "poorly educated". William Barr is saying that it is all "bull$#!+"...waiting for your reaction. I cannot remember when any of the Fox hosts or regular commentators have declared their belief that the 2020 election was fraudulent. Some have said that there were irregularities, but lots of people make that claim after most elections. But claims that Trump was cheated? Don't think so. Perhaps someone could cite cases were such an opinion was voiced by Fox regulars. I am still interested in people's reaction to what I said about Gen. Milley. I also hope to learn what people think of my remarks regarding Fox News as whole. AzWm PS: Still waiting for comments on the Candy Bombers. is a cesspool of lies, deceit and propaganda...nothing...well perhaps the weather report...is accurate...a May 2021 survey shows only 15 percent of those who watch it think it's credible (https://www.statista.com/statistics/239750/credibility-of-fox-news-in-the-united-states/)...it's no surprise that its most popular host is a liar...at least that's what his and Fox's lawyer stated in court and a judge rule on: "Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' " She wrote:"Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer arrives with an appropriate amount of skepticism about the statments he makes." www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye"Plenty of people do make that claim [fraud], but I don't recall any Fox regulars that do so.""Hannity, Carlson, and Ingraham do their own version of the Fox News two-step: They don’t come out and say outright that Trump is a victim of massive voter fraud that cost him the election while simultaneously defeating Democratic House and Senate candidates. But they argue that it’s plausible. They feed the fire with oxygen." www.vox.com/recode/21563312/fox-news-trump-election-fraud-murdoch-hannity-carlson-ingrahamNow after after having hundreds of guest on Fox spreading the "Big Lie"...Fox had to retract its fraud claims: "" Fox News told its millions of viewers and readers that Smartmatic was founded by Hugo Chávez, that its software was designed to fix elections, and that Smartmatic conspired with others to defraud the American people and fix the 2020 U.S. election by changing, inflating, and deleting votes,...." www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-debunking-election-fraud-claims-made-by-its-anchors-2020-12I can't expect a person who doesn't see anything wrong with American (rose-colored) history to be forthright about anything...but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you don't watch Fox 24/7...I'm sure you eat, sleep and take baths...maybe you missed the above while doing so.... |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 30, 2021 14:42:31 GMT -8
Hannity and Ingraham are clearly politically motivated Fox hosts. Carlson I find harder to categorize; I agree with some of his segments and object to others. I believe I am smart enough to evaluate whatever claims are made by talking heads regardless of network.
I also named a number of Fox's straight news reporters. I find them pretty objective. If you believe that Bret Baer, Kevin Corke, Claudia Cowan, or the other reporters I named are dishonest or deal in fake news, I'm sure you will have no trouble in citing examples that support that claim.
In addition to the conservatives on Fox, one sees people with other viewpoints; Democrat office holders or avowed Left-leaning commentators. (By the way, Fox's recent decision to seldom include non-Rightwing persons on their morning show Outnumbered is very disappointing. I used to find that show interesting because there was always going to be at least one contrary voice in the discussion. It's not so interesting anymore.)
If MSNBC and CNN would include conservatives or libertarians on their programs, those networks would be much more interesting to me.
I also am pleased when Kennedy or other libertarians appear on Fox. If you have watched a lot of Fox (which I suspect many of those who hate Fox do not), you surely must see a difference between her viewpoints and those of the clearly pro-conservatives who populate their programs.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 30, 2021 15:52:01 GMT -8
bnastyaztecs posted
I can't expect a person who doesn't see anything wrong with American (rose-colored) history to be forthright about anything...but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you don't watch Fox 24/7...I'm sure you eat, sleep and take baths...maybe you missed the above while doing so....
In the 12 years since I founded this site, I have not been so gratuitously libeled as is the case in your post. Maybe you did not think before you posted. But let's consider some of the questionable or outright awful aspects of American history that you claim I have either ignored or, worse, endorse.
* Two centuries of slavery.
* A century of segregation (which WAS systematic racism).
* The treatment of native Americans in the Jackson administration
* The unpunished murder of Emmitt Till in 1955.
* The internment of Japanese Americans in WWII. (I actually knew one survivor of such internment. Did you ever met one such?)
* The Spanish-American War, which was clearly fabricated.
* The Treatment of the Filipinos by the Theodore Roosevelt administration following the Spanish-American war.
* The creation of Panama, which was a phony deal.
* The Gulf of Tonkin incident, a fabricated excuse to greatly increase a war in which we had to that moment been much less involved.
* Our abandonment of South Vietnam in 1975 and the Kurds following the Persian Gulf War.
Let's see where that leaves me. Well, if I am just ignorant of all these terrible events, that means I wasted 12 years of public school and about 8 years of college.
If I approve of these events, I must therefore be a racist, in favor of starting unjustified wars, and absolutely unmoved by the abandonment of America's allies when such abandonment means certain death for many of those allies.
Reread your post and explain how my reaction is not totally justified by what you accused me of.
What really riles me is when, as I see it, posters attack me because I do not totally support their political views. With respect to the history of the USA, there is plenty to criticize. But, and this is the important part, despite its flaws, the USA is a nation worthy of love and respect.
Once more I will refer to Germany, a country I do know a fair amount about (you might want to consider my surname for a start). I would hope that today's German youth do not finish their schooling thinking that the only thing worth knowing about their country is the Nazi era.
In the same fashion, I hope that our students do not graduate thinking that our country is unworthy of respect and allegiance. If that's what the American people think on balance, the future of our republic is in grave danger.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 30, 2021 15:57:38 GMT -8
Still waiting for the Candy Bombers to ring a bell with someone.
Azwm
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At what point does this absurdity not bother some?