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Post by johneaztec on Jul 1, 2022 13:54:49 GMT -8
What are talking about. It's already a fact that they found a shell casing in his car, and on the ground, among other facts. I choose to wait for all additional footage to come out to judge things that haven't come out as fact yet. You need to save your bulls##t assumptions until each and every fact comes out. Of course in your first post, you didn't want to mention that he shot at police officers. Typical you, glossing over stuff so it fits your rant. When someone HAS to say trust me, it's always the last person I believe AND trust, so save that response for someone else. By the way the shooting of the two El Monte Police Officers was the furthest thing from random, since they were ambushed, and these situations happen quite often in America. This is what's gross, you watering down the horrible act to these Officers who were ambushed. You should be ashamed of yourself. Please source where they found a shell casing - The Akron Beacon Journal doesn't provide that context anywhere? www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/local/2022/07/01/akron-police-shooting-jayland-walker-press-conference-bodycam-video/7786766001/You often speak in generalities: "Among other facts" (which you don't provide any of) which doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it. He allegedly fired at officers, somewhere along the line, but that's not been confirmed, unless you're just taking their word for it. A gun was recovered in the car, that's all we know, as far as I've read and seen. So if he fired at officers first, sixty shots is somehow justifiable? I can provide an extensive list of people who are White, were actually armed AND murdered people who were somehow taken into custody....just fine. Why is that somehow acceptable? I'm not sure what level your comprehension skills are, but the word "random" means not connected to a greater set of circumstances, in this exact event. The word "isolated" means that similarly it was not part of a systemic pattern of violence against a particular race of individuals. Your first response to a statement of a 25-year-old Black man being shot by police was to post an unrelated false equivalence from weeks ago to somehow deflect or justify what took place. Espousing those Godly values some more while you drown in your own hypocrisy is a bold move. I never said that that type of situation you provided was justifiable. No matter the color of your skin, there are situations where it's not justifiable. Sixty shots is excessive if that's true, but like I said, I'll wait for the body cam footage first to see why, and if they shot sixty times which may include tasers. Cleveland.com has the story that says he shot at officers from his vehicle during the chase. I didn't check other sources for this. It was the first source I found. You have to assume he has the weapon on him after fleeing his vehicle while IT WAS STILL ROLLING, and the only reason he didn't have his gun on him is because he probably couldn't pick it up again, only because the car was still moving. Thank goodness no police officers were injured during this horrible incident. And, it's a horrible thing that this gentlemen's life ended in this manner. Random: Chosen without method, or conscious decision. The guy who shot the two police officers was lying in wait. A conscious decision. It's also not a random act in America. Police Officers are ambushed, and set up a lot. Too much. It's a very dangerous job, obviously. Godly values? Yes. No hypocrisy. I believe any kind of murder is wrong. I brought up a murder of two police officers and you reach to try and make it ungodly. Shame on you. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 14:44:36 GMT -8
Please source where they found a shell casing - The Akron Beacon Journal doesn't provide that context anywhere? www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/local/2022/07/01/akron-police-shooting-jayland-walker-press-conference-bodycam-video/7786766001/You often speak in generalities: "Among other facts" (which you don't provide any of) which doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it. He allegedly fired at officers, somewhere along the line, but that's not been confirmed, unless you're just taking their word for it. A gun was recovered in the car, that's all we know, as far as I've read and seen. So if he fired at officers first, sixty shots is somehow justifiable? I can provide an extensive list of people who are White, were actually armed AND murdered people who were somehow taken into custody....just fine. Why is that somehow acceptable? I'm not sure what level your comprehension skills are, but the word "random" means not connected to a greater set of circumstances, in this exact event. The word "isolated" means that similarly it was not part of a systemic pattern of violence against a particular race of individuals. Your first response to a statement of a 25-year-old Black man being shot by police was to post an unrelated false equivalence from weeks ago to somehow deflect or justify what took place. Espousing those Godly values some more while you drown in your own hypocrisy is a bold move. I never said that that type of situation you provided was justifiable. No matter the color of your skin, there are situations where it's not justifiable. Sixty shots is excessive if that's true, but like I said, I'll wait for the body cam footage first to see why, and if they shot sixty times which may include tasers. Cleveland.com has the story that says he shot at officers from his vehicle during the chase. I didn't check other sources for this. It was the first source I found. You have to assume he has the weapon on him after fleeing his vehicle while IT WAS STILL ROLLING, and the only reason he didn't have his gun on him is because he probably couldn't pick it up again, only because the car was still moving. Thank goodness no police officers were injured during this horrible incident. And, it's a horrible thing that this gentlemen's life ended in this manner. Random: Chosen without method, or conscious decision. The guy who shot the two police officers was lying in wait. A conscious decision. It's also not a random act in America. Police Officers are ambushed, and set up a lot. Too much. It's a very dangerous job, obviously. Godly values? Yes. No hypocrisy. I believe any kind of murder is wrong. I brought up a murder of two police officers and you reach to try and make it ungodly. Shame on you. Your initial response was the issue. |
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Post by sdsustoner on Jul 1, 2022 14:52:14 GMT -8
They should put the cops in GP
The inmates need entertainment
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Post by sdsuball on Jul 1, 2022 17:50:50 GMT -8
I never said that that type of situation you provided was justifiable. No matter the color of your skin, there are situations where it's not justifiable. Sixty shots is excessive if that's true, but like I said, I'll wait for the body cam footage first to see why, and if they shot sixty times which may include tasers. Cleveland.com has the story that says he shot at officers from his vehicle during the chase. I didn't check other sources for this. It was the first source I found. You have to assume he has the weapon on him after fleeing his vehicle while IT WAS STILL ROLLING, and the only reason he didn't have his gun on him is because he probably couldn't pick it up again, only because the car was still moving. Thank goodness no police officers were injured during this horrible incident. And, it's a horrible thing that this gentlemen's life ended in this manner. Random: Chosen without method, or conscious decision. The guy who shot the two police officers was lying in wait. A conscious decision. It's also not a random act in America. Police Officers are ambushed, and set up a lot. Too much. It's a very dangerous job, obviously. Godly values? Yes. No hypocrisy. I believe any kind of murder is wrong. I brought up a murder of two police officers and you reach to try and make it ungodly. Shame on you. Your initial response was the issue. FWIW I also remember reading the point about the shell casing being in the car in an article that I read on it. Comparing an incident where a black man shot at police, and was subsequently shot 60 times, to George Floyd's murder in plain daylight by asphyxiation because an officer cut off the breathing and blood circulation to his head by putting his weight on his neck for almost 9 minutes is night and day. So stop with the criticism of his initial response! Dude shot at police officers and then got shot! If evidence comes out that he didn't shoot at the police when they look at the body cameras, well then that's a very different story. Did they need to shoot him 60 times? No! Were the police officers in the wrong? Probably. But I wouldn't call them murders until more evidence comes out. Cops do have a right to return fire when they are shot at. |
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Post by azteccc on Jul 1, 2022 20:31:33 GMT -8
Any cop that discharges their firearm should never be allowed to be a LEO in any jurisdiction in America, ever again.
And until cops start policing their own, unfortunately not a single one of them is better than the worst of them - murderers.
They signed up for the job, a job that is far less dangerous than many, many others in this country. Its time we started treating them as such.
Body cameras should be on at all times, and the footage should be public record in 100% of cases.
Cops should be able to be sued in civil court. Criminal cases involving officers should not be handled by the DA and instead should be sent to an outside civilian Ombudsman.
Off-duty officers should have no protection under the law that ordinary citizens do not have. Plain clothes and unmarked vehicles should be illegal. No knock raids should be illegal.
I can probably keep going.
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Post by azteccc on Jul 1, 2022 20:33:18 GMT -8
Any cop that discharges their firearm should never be allowed to be a LEO in any jurisdiction in America, ever again. And until cops start policing their own, unfortunately not a single one of them is better than the worst of them - murderers. They signed up for the job, a job that is far less dangerous than many, many others in this country. Its time we started treating them as such. Body cameras should be on at all times, and the footage should be public record in 100% of cases. Cops should be able to be sued in civil court. Criminal cases involving officers should not be handled by the DA and instead should be sent to an outside civilian Ombudsman. Off-duty officers should have no protection under the law that ordinary citizens do not have. Plain clothes and unmarked vehicles should be illegal. No knock raids should be illegal. I can probably keep going. Oh and to my point about left-wingers not wanting to have guns of their own... You'd prefer no one has them but the police? Haaaa |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 1, 2022 21:01:49 GMT -8
Any cop that discharges their firearm should never be allowed to be a LEO in any jurisdiction in America, ever again. And until cops start policing their own, unfortunately not a single one of them is better than the worst of them - murderers. They signed up for the job, a job that is far less dangerous than many, many others in this country. Its time we started treating them as such. Body cameras should be on at all times, and the footage should be public record in 100% of cases. Cops should be able to be sued in civil court. Criminal cases involving officers should not be handled by the DA and instead should be sent to an outside civilian Ombudsman. Off-duty officers should have no protection under the law that ordinary citizens do not have. Plain clothes and unmarked vehicles should be illegal. No knock raids should be illegal. I can probably keep going. You must be trolling, but I'll bite. So, you think they only should have tasers on them? Also, what's many, many jobs to you? I bet being in a police officer is in the top 20 most dangerous jobs out of thousands out there, without looking it up. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 21:15:24 GMT -8
Your initial response was the issue. FWIW I also remember reading the point about the shell casing being in the car in an article that I read on it. Comparing an incident where a black man shot at police, and was subsequently shot 60 times, to George Floyd's murder in plain daylight by asphyxiation because an officer cut off the breathing and blood circulation to his head by putting his weight on his neck for almost 9 minutes is night and day. So stop with the criticism of his initial response! Dude shot at police officers and then got shot! If evidence comes out that he didn't shoot at the police when they look at the body cameras, well then that's a very different story. Did they need to shoot him 60 times? No! Were the police officers in the wrong? Probably. But I wouldn't call them murders until more evidence comes out. Cops do have a right to return fire when they are shot at. First of all, I'm not comparing this incident to *anything.* What I am saying is that shooting someone 60 times is excessive, cruel and unnecessary. As is handcuffing his dead corpse. What I'm further stating is that this incident is just the latest in a line of troubling situations that involve unnecessary and excessive force by poorly trained police officers against people of color. George Floyd, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Philando Castille, Oscar Grant, Amadou Diallo, Jonathan Ferrell, Tony Robinson, Alfred Olango...dozens and dozens more. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 21:21:45 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 1, 2022 21:22:14 GMT -8
FWIW I also remember reading the point about the shell casing being in the car in an article that I read on it. Comparing an incident where a black man shot at police, and was subsequently shot 60 times, to George Floyd's murder in plain daylight by asphyxiation because an officer cut off the breathing and blood circulation to his head by putting his weight on his neck for almost 9 minutes is night and day. So stop with the criticism of his initial response! Dude shot at police officers and then got shot! If evidence comes out that he didn't shoot at the police when they look at the body cameras, well then that's a very different story. Did they need to shoot him 60 times? No! Were the police officers in the wrong? Probably. But I wouldn't call them murders until more evidence comes out. Cops do have a right to return fire when they are shot at. First of all, I'm not comparing this incident to *anything.* What I am saying is that shooting someone 60 times is excessive, cruel and unnecessary. As is handcuffing his dead corpse. What I'm further stating is that this incident is just the latest in a line of troubling situations that involve unnecessary and excessive force by poorly trained police officers against people of color. George Floyd, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Philando Castille, Oscar Grant, Amadou Diallo, Jonathan Ferrell, Tony Robinson, Alfred Olango...dozens and dozens more. What is your opinion of Lee Elder, a man of color, and his statistics pertaining to ratios of blacks and whites being shot by police officers, etc? I'm positive I know your answer, but let's confirm. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 21:30:46 GMT -8
First of all, I'm not comparing this incident to *anything.* What I am saying is that shooting someone 60 times is excessive, cruel and unnecessary. As is handcuffing his dead corpse. What I'm further stating is that this incident is just the latest in a line of troubling situations that involve unnecessary and excessive force by poorly trained police officers against people of color. George Floyd, Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Philando Castille, Oscar Grant, Amadou Diallo, Jonathan Ferrell, Tony Robinson, Alfred Olango...dozens and dozens more. What is your opinion of Lee Elder, a man of color, and his statistics pertaining to ratios of blacks and whites being shot by police officers, etc? I'm positive I know your answer, but let's confirm. I'm assuming you're referring to...Larry Elder? (Lee Elder was a golfer, so I don't know how well that works..) Boy, that setup and punchline was poorly executed. Larry Elder is a bigot, in my opinion. Whether he's Black is really irrelevant, he's playing to a conservative base and I don't think his statistics (whatever they may be) are a genuine portrayal of what takes place. www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-27/larry-elders-recall-fans-prove-hes-face-white-supremacy |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 1, 2022 21:35:31 GMT -8
What is your opinion of Lee Elder, a man of color, and his statistics pertaining to ratios of blacks and whites being shot by police officers, etc? I'm positive I know your answer, but let's confirm. I'm assuming you're referring to...Larry Elder? (Lee Elder was a golfer, so I don't know how well that works..) Boy, that setup and punchline was poorly executed. Larry Elder is a bigot, in my opinion. Whether he's Black is really irrelevant, he's playing to a conservative base and I don't think his statistics (whatever they may be) are a genuine portrayal of what takes place. www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-27/larry-elders-recall-fans-prove-hes-face-white-supremacy Your response was exactly what I thought it would be. Have you heard the stats that he's stayed about race and crime? It sounds like you've never taken the time to listen to them. Do yourself a favor and look into them, if you can set aside your blinders for a minute. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 21:39:45 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 21:48:11 GMT -8
Your response was exactly what I thought it would be. Have you heard the stats that he's stayed about race and crime? It sounds like you've never taken the time to listen to them. Do yourself a favor and look into them, if you can set aside your blinders for a minute. Let me guess - He's probably going to state that police officers kill more White people than Black people, right? |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 1, 2022 21:52:20 GMT -8
You can kiss my a** for implying that I'm racist, Ryan. You have ZERO people skills with the ones that don't adhere to your thinking. That's very sad, and a horrible trait. Fox your anger issues,dude. It's not a way to live life to it's fullest. You're the one making it a black and white issue, and if I, or someone else differs from you or brings up another angle on it, you're TRIGGERED every time. Pitiful. Get a grip and learn how to treat HUMANS better. Bringing up a black man's view on it falls right in line with this topic, especially since you've pitted blacks against whites. So get a grip. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 1, 2022 21:56:11 GMT -8
Your response was exactly what I thought it would be. Have you heard the stats that he's stayed about race and crime? It sounds like you've never taken the time to listen to them. Do yourself a favor and look into them, if you can set aside your blinders for a minute. Let me guess - He's probably going to state that police officers kill more White people than Black people, right? See, you can't open your mind up to even give it a shot and hear what he has to say, because there's NO WAY Ryan's ever wrong. You dig in like no one I've ever seen before. You've got a BIG set of blinders on. Sheesh. Yeah, never listen to what the other side says, because you just might possibly have another view that you would never admit, because you can never be wrong. Like I said, pitiful. And, that's like me saying to you as well, "Let me guess, your sources say that whites shoot blacks at a more alarming rate." Are you afraid of doing extensive research from both sides, because you may be wrong? Nevermind. I know the answer from you anyway. Don't waste my time. |
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Post by azteccc on Jul 1, 2022 22:14:36 GMT -8
Any cop that discharges their firearm should never be allowed to be a LEO in any jurisdiction in America, ever again. And until cops start policing their own, unfortunately not a single one of them is better than the worst of them - murderers. They signed up for the job, a job that is far less dangerous than many, many others in this country. Its time we started treating them as such. Body cameras should be on at all times, and the footage should be public record in 100% of cases. Cops should be able to be sued in civil court. Criminal cases involving officers should not be handled by the DA and instead should be sent to an outside civilian Ombudsman. Off-duty officers should have no protection under the law that ordinary citizens do not have. Plain clothes and unmarked vehicles should be illegal. No knock raids should be illegal. I can probably keep going. You must be trolling, but I'll bite. So, you think they only should have tasers on them? Also, what's many, many jobs to you? I bet being in a police officer is in the top 20 most dangerous jobs out of thousands out there, without looking it up. There is absolutely zero trolling in my response, I believe every word of it. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics - #22: www.facilities.udel.edu/safety/4689/And that refers to patrol officers, not even including the desk jockeys, admin, management, detectives, etc., which would lower them even further on the list. I didn't say anything about tasers. I said there should be strict rules for discharging firearms - strict enough to discourage it in every circumstance imaginable. If it must be done, that officer should know it will be the end of their career as a LEO, even when that action saves lives. Harsh, but necessary. In every situation in which less than lethal force can be used or tried, it should be. If you want that to be a taser, sure thing fine by me. I value the lives of innocent civilians more than I value the inherent safety felt by a police officer. And I also believe the lives of innocent civilians should be systemically valued more than that of a LEO when the LEO is initiating contact between the two, all else held constant. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 1, 2022 22:42:21 GMT -8
You must be trolling, but I'll bite. So, you think they only should have tasers on them? Also, what's many, many jobs to you? I bet being in a police officer is in the top 20 most dangerous jobs out of thousands out there, without looking it up. There is absolutely zero trolling in my response, I believe every word of it. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics - #22: www.facilities.udel.edu/safety/4689/And that refers to patrol officers, not even including the desk jockeys, admin, management, detectives, etc., which would lower them even further on the list. I didn't say anything about tasers. I said there should be strict rules for discharging firearms - strict enough to discourage it in every circumstance imaginable. If it must be done, that officer should know it will be the end of their career as a LEO, even when that action saves lives. Harsh, but necessary. In every situation in which less than lethal force can be used or tried, it should be. If you want that to be a taser, sure thing fine by me. I value the lives of innocent civilians more than I value the inherent safety felt by a police officer. And I also believe the lives of innocent civilians should be systemically valued more than that of a LEO when the LEO is initiating contact between the two, all else held constant. I can understand what you're saying to a degree, but let me give you a scenario and tell me if this is a justifiable situation to use a firearm by a police officer, in your view. In a police/civilian encounter, do you think it's justifiable for a police officer to shoot a civilian if the civilian is a known murderer and the police officer has been told by dispatch that he's armed and dangerous, and the civilian reaches in his waistband, this after repeated commands to put his hands up and get on the ground? |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 23:21:16 GMT -8
You can kiss my a** for implying that I'm racist, Ryan. You have ZERO people skills with the ones that don't adhere to your thinking. That's very sad, and a horrible trait. Fox your anger issues,dude. It's not a way to live life to it's fullest. You're the one making it a black and white issue, and if I, or someone else differs from you or brings up another angle on it, you're TRIGGERED every time. Pitiful. Get a grip and learn how to treat HUMANS better. Bringing up a black man's view on it falls right in line with this topic, especially since you've pitted blacks against whites. So get a grip. You think I'm angry at you because of your lame attempt at a "gotcha"? Not angry at all. Perfectly rational, reasonable response. Your rebuttal was silly (and you didn't even get the guy's name right)....and lacks any kind of self-awareness. Also, it's literally a black and white issue. It's about race. 100%. Why would I care or give Larry Elder, a noted conservative race-baiter, any care in the world? His analysis means nothing to me. He's a failed political candidate for governor of California. Is he a sociologist? Does he have any qualifications that make him a meaningful source on the topic? No. So now you're saying it IS because he's Black? Dude...think before you come up with this stuff, for pete's sake. Think about how this is being conveyed? I'm not pitting anyone against anyone. I'm stating what you can see clearly in the sourced data above. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 1, 2022 23:32:21 GMT -8
Let me guess - He's probably going to state that police officers kill more White people than Black people, right? See, you can't open your mind up to even give it a shot and hear what he has to say, because there's NO WAY Ryan's ever wrong. You dig in like no one I've ever seen before. You've got a BIG set of blinders on. Sheesh. Yeah, never listen to what the other side says, because you just might possibly have another view that you would never admit, because you can never be wrong. Like I said, pitiful. And, that's like me saying to you as well, "Let me guess, your sources say that whites shoot blacks at a more alarming rate." Are you afraid of doing extensive research from both sides, because you may be wrong? Nevermind. I know the answer from you anyway. Don't waste my time. There is no "both sides" here, as much as you try to spin every issue that way. There are statistical facts and truths. I've DONE extensive research on the topic. I've looked at numerous sources from reputable publications like Harvard, the NAACP and many others. Have you? No? This isn't about me - It's about the data. The data shows clear demographical trends. What's Larry Elder's agenda? Did you even read the LA Times link where he's accused of having white supremacy views? So far all you've managed to indicate is that you think I should listen to him because.....he's Black. Here is a fact: Black people make up 13% of the population in this country (approximately)...yet they account for 25% of the number of people killed by police. How's that for a ratio? That means they are 2.5x(+) more likely to be killed at the hands of police. Consider the recent events in Buffalo: White male kills several people in a specifically targeted, heavily-Black supermarket. He's arrested without incident. Not shot 60 times, not tased, not assaulted, not asphyxiated or strangled. And if you think that's a random, strawman argument? Charleston, South Carolina. Dylann Roof. Avowed White supremacist. Murdered a state senator in a historical Black church. Arrested without incident. I could go on and on...but this topic evades you. Your first response in this thread wasn't a condemnation of the events in Akron. Not outrage, not anger. It was about two police officers who were ambushed in a completely unrelated and isolated situation....and then you try to make it about them? Sorry, but you deserve what you get. And that's said with zero malice. |
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