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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 11:24:27 GMT -8
You know what hurts more? Manny himself getting hurt (like he already is) trying to take an extra base in the third inning of a meaningless game in the middle of June just to appease this idiocy from disillusioned fans who have no clue what they speak of. Team's fine with it. Management is fine with it. Ownership is fine with it. The only people who care about this are white reporters trying to stoke the fire of not so subtle racism and white fans who refuse to equate the same level of "hustle" elsewhere. Here's another example : White reporter and LA beat writer Bill Plaschke. (When Cody Bellinger jogged out a ball to first base last year, there was no story or catchy tweet piece. Wonder white the difference is....) Wow. Sorry, but I am beyond sick and tired of this narrative that should not exist...and I am most definitely not alone.. Manny's been a model teammate, an exemplary leader, a force in the community and an asset to the organization since day one. The fact he's smart enough to know his own body after two knee reconstructions by age 27 and the injuries he's played through this year is an asset, not a liability. All you have to do is watch a game to see that this is a myth perpetuated by the media and a certain demographic of fans.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 11:31:53 GMT -8
Everything? No. This specific situation? Yes, without a doubt. It's not unique to Manny specifically. Other targets include Juan Soto, Acuña, Tatis, etc. It's not even difficult to find, either. How this isn't blatantly obvious by now is beyond me. Oh for goodness sakes!!!! Spare me the outrage. Exhibit A. (If you don't think this is racist...I can't help you) Exhibit B : Ronald Acuña. (Again, blatantly obvious here) Exhibit C : Max Muncy...I know what you're thinking, he's white...Well, it's the lack of outrage here for the same exact play Manny was crucified for against the Brewers. Exhibit D : Marcus Stroman and back to Bob Brenly. (Note : After this incident, Bob Brenly took a leave of absence to undergo sensitivity training for racial bias) - But that's not racist, right?
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Post by azteca on Jun 24, 2021 11:42:24 GMT -8
Oh for goodness sakes!!!! Spare me the outrage. Exhibit A. (If you don't think this is racist...I can't help you) Exhibit B : Ronald Acuña. (Again, blatantly obvious here) Exhibit C : Max Muncy...I know what you're thinking, he's white...Well, it's the lack of outrage here for the same exact play Manny was crucified for against the Brewers. Exhibit D : Marcus Stroman and back to Bob Brenly. (Note : After this incident, Bob Brenly took a leave of absence to undergo sensitivity training for racial bias) - But that's not racist, right? Where did I say it never happens?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 12:16:45 GMT -8
Yes, but you don't need to be Einstein to see how it can potentially hurt the team in certain situations. You know what hurts more? Manny himself getting hurt (like he already is) trying to take an extra base in the third inning of a meaningless game in the middle of June just to appease this idiocy from disillusioned fans who have no clue what they speak of. Team's fine with it. Management is fine with it. Ownership is fine with it. The only people who care about this are white reporters trying to stoke the fire of not so subtle racism and white fans who refuse to equate the same level of "hustle" elsewhere. Here's another example : White reporter and LA beat writer Bill Plaschke. (When Cody Bellinger jogged out a ball to first base last year, there was no story or catchy tweet piece. Wonder white the difference is....) While I don't disagree w/ your overall take on the matter, I strongly disagree that any regular season games in June are "meaningless". In fact, that may be the most surprised I have ever been at something you wrote. If we find ourselves 1 game out of the wild card -- you may feel differently. I am fine w/ Machados hustle. Does the "old school red ass" (im only 38 LOL) in me find it odd to see a pro jogging to first with his bat still in his hand? Sure. Am I annoyed about it? No.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 12:44:45 GMT -8
Spare me the outrage. Exhibit A. (If you don't think this is racist...I can't help you) Exhibit B : Ronald Acuña. (Again, blatantly obvious here) Exhibit C : Max Muncy...I know what you're thinking, he's white...Well, it's the lack of outrage here for the same exact play Manny was crucified for against the Brewers. Exhibit D : Marcus Stroman and back to Bob Brenly. (Note : After this incident, Bob Brenly took a leave of absence to undergo sensitivity training for racial bias) - But that's not racist, right? Where did I say it never happens? So your disgust was directed towards...what?
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 12:45:05 GMT -8
You know what hurts more? Manny himself getting hurt (like he already is) trying to take an extra base in the third inning of a meaningless game in the middle of June just to appease this idiocy from disillusioned fans who have no clue what they speak of. Team's fine with it. Management is fine with it. Ownership is fine with it. The only people who care about this are white reporters trying to stoke the fire of not so subtle racism and white fans who refuse to equate the same level of "hustle" elsewhere. Here's another example : White reporter and LA beat writer Bill Plaschke. (When Cody Bellinger jogged out a ball to first base last year, there was no story or catchy tweet piece. Wonder white the difference is....) While I don't disagree w/ your overall take on the matter, I strongly disagree that any regular season games in June are "meaningless". In fact, that may be the most surprised I have ever been at something you wrote. If we find ourselves 1 game out of the wild card -- you may feel differently. I am fine w/ Machados hustle. Does the "old school red ass" (im only 38 LOL) in me find it odd to see a pro jogging to first with his bat still in his hand? Sure. Am I annoyed about it? No. Don't surprised Josh. You know as well as I do that Ryan will say things at times to fit his narrative. No shock there. Also, for someone to say games in June are basically meaningless, is absolutely ridiculous. If so, then why even play them? You can't predict which games will games will come back to haunt you, so you should play them all the same, with effort. It only bugs me when Machado could have taken an extra bag, or make more of an effort to break up a double play if he ran harder, etc..... The not running it out hard to first only simply annoys me, until the fielder bobbles it and he could have been safe if he ran harder, for example, and then I'm more upset.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 12:47:49 GMT -8
You know what hurts more? Manny himself getting hurt (like he already is) trying to take an extra base in the third inning of a meaningless game in the middle of June just to appease this idiocy from disillusioned fans who have no clue what they speak of. Team's fine with it. Management is fine with it. Ownership is fine with it. The only people who care about this are white reporters trying to stoke the fire of not so subtle racism and white fans who refuse to equate the same level of "hustle" elsewhere. Here's another example : White reporter and LA beat writer Bill Plaschke. (When Cody Bellinger jogged out a ball to first base last year, there was no story or catchy tweet piece. Wonder white the difference is....) While I don't disagree w/ your overall take on the matter, I strongly disagree that any regular season games in June are "meaningless". In fact, that may be the most surprised I have ever been at something you wrote. If we find ourselves 1 game out of the wild card -- you may feel differently. I am fine w/ Machados hustle. Does the "old school red ass" (im only 38 LOL) in me find it odd to see a pro jogging to first with his bat still in his hand? Sure. Am I annoyed about it? No. The problem with this logic is you can construct about a thousand different scenarios where one game is the difference and a thousand variables that go into that. I'm not a buyer for that exact reason. If you want to point towards a bigger picture scenario, that's fine. But if Manny not running to third on a single is the difference between us not making the playoffs and making it? Not a believer.
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 12:53:07 GMT -8
You know what hurts more? Manny himself getting hurt (like he already is) trying to take an extra base in the third inning of a meaningless game in the middle of June just to appease this idiocy from disillusioned fans who have no clue what they speak of. Team's fine with it. Management is fine with it. Ownership is fine with it. The only people who care about this are white reporters trying to stoke the fire of not so subtle racism and white fans who refuse to equate the same level of "hustle" elsewhere. Here's another example : White reporter and LA beat writer Bill Plaschke. (When Cody Bellinger jogged out a ball to first base last year, there was no story or catchy tweet piece. Wonder white the difference is....) Agree 100% with your 1st paragraph. Fans who question his effort simply aren't aware of his knowledge and understanding of the game. He doesn't hurt the team at all by ANY of his actions or effort. I'm glad he gets it, even if some fans don't. He goes all out when there's a chance of it making a difference, and that's all that matters. Not sure I agree it's about racism, but IMO more about $$$. I think people see $300M & think he should be Pete Rose when it comes to running out everything & playing with no concern for their own safety. At least in SD. In Baltimore where he got the rep maybe there were other factors involved, but I think that stigma & the $$ associated with him is a bigger factor now. In other words, the "if I'm getting paid $30M I'm running all out all the time (even if it makes no sense to do so)" mentality. ANY of his efforts or actions? How do you know if his lack of effort on a certain play didn't lose a crucial game, for example, if he could have taken an extra base by hustling more, and got into scoring position and the next batter gets a hit and that would have been the winning run, but ultimately Machado is stranded at third and the Pads lose the game. All games are important and if the Manager is telling them otherwise, or if a player has that mentality, then that's a shame.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 12:54:19 GMT -8
While I don't disagree w/ your overall take on the matter, I strongly disagree that any regular season games in June are "meaningless". In fact, that may be the most surprised I have ever been at something you wrote. If we find ourselves 1 game out of the wild card -- you may feel differently. I am fine w/ Machados hustle. Does the "old school red ass" (im only 38 LOL) in me find it odd to see a pro jogging to first with his bat still in his hand? Sure. Am I annoyed about it? No. Don't surprised Josh. You know as well as I do that Ryan will say things at times to fit his narrative. No shock there. Also, for someone to say games in June are basically meaningless, is absolutely ridiculous. If so, then why even play them? You can't predict which games will games will come back to haunt you, so you should play them all the same, with effort. It only bugs me when Machado could have taken an extra bag, or make more of an effort to break up a double play if he ran harder, etc..... The not running it out hard to first only simply annoys me, until the fielder bobbles it and he could have been safe if he ran harder, for example, and then I'm more upset. I have no narrative - I speak what I feel and I'm correct in this regard because the team (his employer) is perfectly fine with the value he brings to the table. (He's been worth over 17MM this year, by the way) and your indignation and insecurity over things that ultimately don't mean a whole lot is your issue, not mine. It's very simple - If Peter Seidler, AJ Preller and Jayce Tingler don't have a problem with it, you shouldn't either. Largely because you completely devalue him when he busts his ass on defense and literally saved the game yesterday, among dozens of other examples of him doing incredible things on both sides of the plate. The fact you continue to harp on this is pathetic. You're essentially calling him selfish because he doesn't play the way YOU want him to. You're not him, in case you're wondering.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 12:57:04 GMT -8
Agree 100% with your 1st paragraph. Fans who question his effort simply aren't aware of his knowledge and understanding of the game. He doesn't hurt the team at all by ANY of his actions or effort. I'm glad he gets it, even if some fans don't. He goes all out when there's a chance of it making a difference, and that's all that matters. Not sure I agree it's about racism, but IMO more about $$$. I think people see $300M & think he should be Pete Rose when it comes to running out everything & playing with no concern for their own safety. At least in SD. In Baltimore where he got the rep maybe there were other factors involved, but I think that stigma & the $$ associated with him is a bigger factor now. In other words, the "if I'm getting paid $30M I'm running all out all the time (even if it makes no sense to do so)" mentality. ANY of his efforts or actions? How do you know if his lack of effort on a certain play didn't lose a crucial game, for example, if he could have taken an extra base by hustling more, and got into scoring position and the next batter gets a hit and that would have been the winning run, but ultimately Machado is stranded at third and the Pads lose the game. All games are important and if the Manager is telling them otherwise, or if a player has that mentality, then that's a shame. He knows because smart people and genuine people don't use hindsight to construct confirmation bias. For some of us, the value he brings on a daily basis comprehensively trumps an individual action. Playing the hypothetical what if scenario is a fool's errand because you can apply the same exact criticism towards a dozen other things in the same game and same manner.
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 13:01:47 GMT -8
Don't surprised Josh. You know as well as I do that Ryan will say things at times to fit his narrative. No shock there. Also, for someone to say games in June are basically meaningless, is absolutely ridiculous. If so, then why even play them? You can't predict which games will games will come back to haunt you, so you should play them all the same, with effort. It only bugs me when Machado could have taken an extra bag, or make more of an effort to break up a double play if he ran harder, etc..... The not running it out hard to first only simply annoys me, until the fielder bobbles it and he could have been safe if he ran harder, for example, and then I'm more upset. I have no narrative - I speak what I feel and I'm correct in this regard because the team (his employer) is perfectly fine with the value he brings to the table. (He's been worth over 17MM this year, by the way) and your indignation and insecurity over things that ultimately don't mean a whole lot is your issue, not mine. It's very simple - If Peter Seidler, AJ Preller and Jayce Tingler don't have a problem with it, you shouldn't either. Largely because you completely devalue him when he busts his ass on defense and literally saved the game yesterday, among dozens of other examples of him doing incredible things on both sides of the plate. The fact you continue to harp on this is pathetic. You're essentially calling him selfish because he doesn't play the way YOU want him to. You're not him, in case you're wondering. I'll tell you what's pathetic, is you trying to make it a race issue and you're the one who feels the need to chime in with post to keep it going such as, "And Machado doesn't hustle?" Talk about harping on it. Like I've said over and over, it's only the blatant lack of hustle that bugs me when he could have been safe at first base on a bobble, or not running hard when he could have taken an extra base, etc....
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 13:05:03 GMT -8
ANY of his efforts or actions? How do you know if his lack of effort on a certain play didn't lose a crucial game, for example, if he could have taken an extra base by hustling more, and got into scoring position and the next batter gets a hit and that would have been the winning run, but ultimately Machado is stranded at third and the Pads lose the game. All games are important and if the Manager is telling them otherwise, or if a player has that mentality, then that's a shame. He knows because smart people and genuine people don't use hindsight to construct confirmation bias. For some of us, the value he brings on a daily basis comprehensively trumps an individual action. Playing the hypothetical what if scenario is a fool's errand because you can apply the same exact criticism towards a dozen other things in the same game and same manner. It's a very valid scenario through 162 games, especially for someone who does it regularly. No reach there. Again, I said that his value obviously trumps it, but I'm hoping it doesn't cost us in the long run.
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Post by azteca on Jun 24, 2021 13:06:37 GMT -8
I have no narrative - I speak what I feel and I'm correct in this regard because the team (his employer) is perfectly fine with the value he brings to the table. (He's been worth over 17MM this year, by the way) and your indignation and insecurity over things that ultimately don't mean a whole lot is your issue, not mine. It's very simple - If Peter Seidler, AJ Preller and Jayce Tingler don't have a problem with it, you shouldn't either. Largely because you completely devalue him when he busts his ass on defense and literally saved the game yesterday, among dozens of other examples of him doing incredible things on both sides of the plate. The fact you continue to harp on this is pathetic. You're essentially calling him selfish because he doesn't play the way YOU want him to. You're not him, in case you're wondering. I'll tell you what's pathetic, is you trying to make it a race issue and you're the one who feels the need to chime in with post to keep it going such as, "And Machado doesn't hustle." Talk about harping on it. Like I've said over and over, it's only the blatant lack of hustle that bugs me when he could have been safe at first base on a bobble, or not running hard when he could have taken an extra base, etc.... I’m bowing out of this. I should have known better than to try to reason with Ryan.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 13:08:13 GMT -8
I have no narrative - I speak what I feel and I'm correct in this regard because the team (his employer) is perfectly fine with the value he brings to the table. (He's been worth over 17MM this year, by the way) and your indignation and insecurity over things that ultimately don't mean a whole lot is your issue, not mine. It's very simple - If Peter Seidler, AJ Preller and Jayce Tingler don't have a problem with it, you shouldn't either. Largely because you completely devalue him when he busts his ass on defense and literally saved the game yesterday, among dozens of other examples of him doing incredible things on both sides of the plate. The fact you continue to harp on this is pathetic. You're essentially calling him selfish because he doesn't play the way YOU want him to. You're not him, in case you're wondering. I'll tell you what's pathetic, is you trying to make it a race issue and you're the one who feels the need to chime in with post to keep it going such as, "And Machado doesn't hustle." Talk about harping on it. Like I've said over and over, it's only the blatant lack of hustle that bugs me when he could have been safe at first base on a bobble, or not running hard when he could have taken an extra base, etc.... I bring up race because it's a racial issue. I just posted a half dozen examples confirming that - It's part of a cultural and racial bias. The fact this is hard to grasp is mystifying. Can you recall any white player being called out for jogging to first on a routine grounder? I just showed you Max Muncy doing the same exact "spiking" that Manny did against Jesus Aguilar. Was Muncy ever dragged over the coals like Manny was? No. He wasn't. And there's a reason for that.
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 13:09:21 GMT -8
I'll tell you what's pathetic, is you trying to make it a race issue and you're the one who feels the need to chime in with post to keep it going such as, "And Machado doesn't hustle." Talk about harping on it. Like I've said over and over, it's only the blatant lack of hustle that bugs me when he could have been safe at first base on a bobble, or not running hard when he could have taken an extra base, etc.... I’m bowing out of this. I should have known better than to try to reason with Ryan. Using exclamation marks and posting one sentence is trying to reason with someone? Okay...
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 13:09:41 GMT -8
He knows because smart people and genuine people don't use hindsight to construct confirmation bias. For some of us, the value he brings on a daily basis comprehensively trumps an individual action. Playing the hypothetical what if scenario is a fool's errand because you can apply the same exact criticism towards a dozen other things in the same game and same manner. It's a very valid scenario through 162 games, especially for someone who does it regularly. No reach there. Again, I said that his value obviously trumps it, but I'm hoping it doesn't cost us in the long run. Eric Hosmer says hello.
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 13:09:44 GMT -8
While I don't disagree w/ your overall take on the matter, I strongly disagree that any regular season games in June are "meaningless". In fact, that may be the most surprised I have ever been at something you wrote. If we find ourselves 1 game out of the wild card -- you may feel differently. I am fine w/ Machados hustle. Does the "old school red ass" (im only 38 LOL) in me find it odd to see a pro jogging to first with his bat still in his hand? Sure. Am I annoyed about it? No. The problem with this logic is you can construct about a thousand different scenarios where one game is the difference and a thousand variables that go into that. I'm not a buyer for that exact reason. If you want to point towards a bigger picture scenario, that's fine. But if Manny not running to third on a single is the difference between us not making the playoffs and making it? Not a believer. Runs are precious. Of course it makes a difference, and you should never assume that this run, or that run is any less valuable than the other and if it would make the difference of making the playoffs or not. That's a fools choice. It's not like the potential is there for it only happening one time, in one game. There's 162 of them, so think about that.
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 13:10:09 GMT -8
I'll tell you what's pathetic, is you trying to make it a race issue and you're the one who feels the need to chime in with post to keep it going such as, "And Machado doesn't hustle." Talk about harping on it. Like I've said over and over, it's only the blatant lack of hustle that bugs me when he could have been safe at first base on a bobble, or not running hard when he could have taken an extra base, etc.... I’m bowing out of this. I should have known better than to try to reason with Ryan. You're a smart guy. I should follow your advice.
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Post by junior on Jun 24, 2021 13:26:05 GMT -8
You know what hurts more? Manny himself getting hurt (like he already is) trying to take an extra base in the third inning of a meaningless game in the middle of June just to appease this idiocy from disillusioned fans who have no clue what they speak of. Team's fine with it. Management is fine with it. Ownership is fine with it. The only people who care about this are white reporters trying to stoke the fire of not so subtle racism and white fans who refuse to equate the same level of "hustle" elsewhere. Here's another example : White reporter and LA beat writer Bill Plaschke. (When Cody Bellinger jogged out a ball to first base last year, there was no story or catchy tweet piece. Wonder white the difference is....) Wow. Dr. Freud … please pick up the White Courtesy Telephone… (your slip is showing).For one thing, Bellinger is still on the dodgers, and Manny is the one who took the money and left. Gotta believe that's a large part of the motivation there … Now there's a whole lot of racism that exists just under the surface of lots of things in everyday life, but I'm not willing to call this specific incident or tweet an example of racism … implied or otherwise.
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 24, 2021 14:56:48 GMT -8
Agree 100% with your 1st paragraph. Fans who question his effort simply aren't aware of his knowledge and understanding of the game. He doesn't hurt the team at all by ANY of his actions or effort. I'm glad he gets it, even if some fans don't. He goes all out when there's a chance of it making a difference, and that's all that matters. Not sure I agree it's about racism, but IMO more about $$$. I think people see $300M & think he should be Pete Rose when it comes to running out everything & playing with no concern for their own safety. At least in SD. In Baltimore where he got the rep maybe there were other factors involved, but I think that stigma & the $$ associated with him is a bigger factor now. In other words, the "if I'm getting paid $30M I'm running all out all the time (even if it makes no sense to do so)" mentality. ANY of his efforts or actions? How do you know if his lack of effort on a certain play didn't lose a crucial game, for example, if he could have taken an extra base by hustling more, and got into scoring position and the next batter gets a hit and that would have been the winning run, but ultimately Machado is stranded at third and the Pads lose the game. All games are important and if the Manager is telling them otherwise, or if a player has that mentality, then that's a shame. I've never seen Manny dog it if his effort can help the team in any situation. Not once. I know Manny's IQ is high enough to know when to push it vs. when to take care of your body, even if some in our fan base can't figure that out. All games are important, but certain situations are more important than others. Taking an extra base in a 3-1 game early is very different than in a 8-2 game late. Baseball is a marathon not a sprint. Players realize that you have to pick & choose your spots, especially in May - July. Manny chose to layout to try & catch that ball in right field late last night because he's aware it's a close game against the Dodgers that could change on that play, a game that carries more weight than a game against Arizona. If that exact play happens in a 6-2 game Sunday don't expect Manny to dive & risk injury, and he'd be completely justified in doing so. Not all games are the same, nor are all players. We need a healthy Manny in August/September; we don't need him wearing himself down in June. Especially given the stretch of games we just went through w/ little time off. He goes all out when it matters, and that's fine by me. This isn't football where you have 16 games & play limited snaps, or hoops where you have "load management" & play 2-3 games a week. They're playing 162, & nearly every day. Athletes are smart enough to know when to push it & when not to. PS. I found it sad (& interesting) that people actually booed him for not running hard on a 110+ MPH ground ball to 2nd that, even with the boot, he's still very unlikely to beat out. I just tend to think those people are biased by his "reputation" (as stupid as that is) & by the $$$ he earns.
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