|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 15:29:06 GMT -8
ANY of his efforts or actions? How do you know if his lack of effort on a certain play didn't lose a crucial game, for example, if he could have taken an extra base by hustling more, and got into scoring position and the next batter gets a hit and that would have been the winning run, but ultimately Machado is stranded at third and the Pads lose the game. All games are important and if the Manager is telling them otherwise, or if a player has that mentality, then that's a shame. I've never seen Manny dog it if his effort can help the team in any situation. Not once. I know Manny's IQ is high enough to know when to push it vs. when to take care of your body, even if some in our fan base can't figure that out. All games are important, but certain situations are more important than others. Taking an extra base in a 3-1 game early is very different than in a 8-2 game late. Baseball is a marathon not a sprint. Players realize that you have to pick & choose your spots, especially in May - July. Manny chose to layout to try & catch that ball in right field late last night because he's aware it's a close game against the Dodgers that could change on that play, a game that carries more weight than a game against Arizona. If that exact play happens in a 6-2 game Sunday don't expect Manny to dive & risk injury, and he'd be completely justified in doing so. Not all games are the same, nor are all players. We need a healthy Manny in August/September; we don't need him wearing himself down in June. Especially given the stretch of games we just went through w/ little time off. He goes all out when it matters, and that's fine by me. This isn't football where you have 16 games & play limited snaps, or hoops where you have "load management" & play 2-3 games a week. They're playing 162, & nearly every day. Athletes are smart enough to know when to push it & when not to. PS. I found it sad (& interesting) that people actually booed him for not running hard on a 110+ MPH ground ball to 2nd that, even with the boot, he's still very unlikely to beat out. I just tend to think those people are biased by his "reputation" (as stupid as that is) & by the $$$ he earns. I must watch Manny closer than you then, because I've witnessed situations where he had a chance for an extra bag, but decided against it, and it was definitely noticed by more than me I might add. Does taking the extra base fall into the category of helping your team in your eyes? If not, then I can't help you.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 15:31:26 GMT -8
Dr. Freud … please pick up the White Courtesy Telephone… (your slip is showing).For one thing, Bellinger is still on the dodgers, and Manny is the one who took the money and left. Gotta believe that's a large part of the motivation there … Now there's a whole lot of racism that exists just under the surface of lots of things in everyday life, but I'm not willing to call this specific incident or tweet an example of racism … implied or otherwise. And, I believe Bellinger was benched for it. I remember it became a national issue.
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Jun 24, 2021 15:32:10 GMT -8
I've never seen Manny dog it if his effort can help the team in any situation. Not once. I know Manny's IQ is high enough to know when to push it vs. when to take care of your body, even if some in our fan base can't figure that out. All games are important, but certain situations are more important than others. Taking an extra base in a 3-1 game early is very different than in a 8-2 game late. Baseball is a marathon not a sprint. Players realize that you have to pick & choose your spots, especially in May - July. Manny chose to layout to try & catch that ball in right field late last night because he's aware it's a close game against the Dodgers that could change on that play, a game that carries more weight than a game against Arizona. If that exact play happens in a 6-2 game Sunday don't expect Manny to dive & risk injury, and he'd be completely justified in doing so. Not all games are the same, nor are all players. We need a healthy Manny in August/September; we don't need him wearing himself down in June. Especially given the stretch of games we just went through w/ little time off. He goes all out when it matters, and that's fine by me. This isn't football where you have 16 games & play limited snaps, or hoops where you have "load management" & play 2-3 games a week. They're playing 162, & nearly every day. Athletes are smart enough to know when to push it & when not to. PS. I found it sad (& interesting) that people actually booed him for not running hard on a 110+ MPH ground ball to 2nd that, even with the boot, he's still very unlikely to beat out. I just tend to think those people are biased by his "reputation" (as stupid as that is) & by the $$$ he earns. I must watch Manny closer than you then, because I've witnessed situations where he had a chance for an extra bag, but decided against it, and it was definitely noticed by more than me I might add. Does taking the extra base fall into the category of helping your team in your eyes? If not, then I can't help you. Depends on the scenario, and my guess is Manny knows his chances of successfully getting the extra base much more than you or some random fans who think they should be managing the team. If its 7-1 with 2 out I don't care if he's going to 2nd vs. stretching it to 3rd, even with a 60% chance at success. I watch Manny very closely. Don't think you're the only one. You're not.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Jun 24, 2021 20:43:15 GMT -8
Dr. Freud … please pick up the White Courtesy Telephone… (your slip is showing).For one thing, Bellinger is still on the dodgers, and Manny is the one who took the money and left. Gotta believe that's a large part of the motivation there … Now there's a whole lot of racism that exists just under the surface of lots of things in everyday life, but I'm not willing to call this specific incident or tweet an example of racism … implied or otherwise. I'm not talking about this tweet specifically. I'm referring to the much larger, broader narrative that's pretty obvious for anyone who can put two and two together.
|
|
|
Post by junior on Jun 24, 2021 21:31:31 GMT -8
What a load.
Get over yourself.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 21:48:28 GMT -8
What a load. Get over yourself. My thoughts, exactly.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 24, 2021 21:57:29 GMT -8
I must watch Manny closer than you then, because I've witnessed situations where he had a chance for an extra bag, but decided against it, and it was definitely noticed by more than me I might add. Does taking the extra base fall into the category of helping your team in your eyes? If not, then I can't help you. Depends on the scenario, and my guess is Manny knows his chances of successfully getting the extra base much more than you or some random fans who think they should be managing the team. If its 7-1 with 2 out I don't care if he's going to 2nd vs. stretching it to 3rd, even with a 60% chance at success. I watch Manny very closely. Don't think you're the only one. You're not. I'm obviously not talking about a 7-1 scenario, or I wouldn't mention it. I'm talking about not going hard, SOMETIMES, as soon as a ball's hit for a single, or double and he doesn't even give himself the chance for an extra base, because he's immediately committed to taking one bag from the jump start. He's been chastised for this his whole career. Nothing new, but it happens to bother me. Also, I never said that I was the only one watching Manny very closely. Don't put words in my mouth. I said that I must be watching him closer than you, because you're not catching the scenarios I'm talking about.
|
|
|
Post by aardvark on Jun 24, 2021 22:07:33 GMT -8
Dr. Freud … please pick up the White Courtesy Telephone… (your slip is showing).For one thing, Bellinger is still on the dodgers, and Manny is the one who took the money and left. Gotta believe that's a large part of the motivation there … Now there's a whole lot of racism that exists just under the surface of lots of things in everyday life, but I'm not willing to call this specific incident or tweet an example of racism … implied or otherwise. I'm not talking about this tweet specifically. I'm referring to the much larger, broader narrative that's pretty obvious for anyone who can put two and two together. Wow, again.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 25, 2021 0:00:48 GMT -8
I'm not talking about this tweet specifically. I'm referring to the much larger, broader narrative that's pretty obvious for anyone who can put two and two together. Wow, again. Never ceases to amaze.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 25, 2021 9:04:26 GMT -8
It's a very valid scenario through 162 games, especially for someone who does it regularly. No reach there. Again, I said that his value obviously trumps it, but I'm hoping it doesn't cost us in the long run. Eric Hosmer says hello. Since Eric Hosmer's half Cuban, you would have just pulled out the race card, so what's the point? Besides, Hosmer does not blatantly dog it around other bases like Machado does AT TIMES. Also, I only watch the Padres so I don't see other players dogging it blatantly, but if I did notice it blatantly, I would say something.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Jun 25, 2021 9:43:00 GMT -8
Since Eric Hosmer's half Cuban, you would have just pulled out the race card, so what's the point? Besides, Hosmer does not blatantly dog it around other bases like Machado does AT TIMES. Also, I only watch the Padres so I don't see other players dogging it blatantly, but if I did notice it blatantly, I would say something. It's not the "race card" - By the way, people that use this term incessantly and without justification....yeah, not a great look, let's just say. It's a reality. I posted a handful of examples of blatant racism and cultural bias against players of color. Those are not isolated - It permeates baseball throughout the league. If you can't readily come to a conclusion that there's a hypocritical double standard and bias towards players of Hispanic/Latino heritage...I can't help you. Hosmer doesn't dog it around the bases? Perhaps you should watch closer and take your focus off of Manny or your old target, Tommy Pham. Hosmer and Manny could not be any more different. One's an absolute liability, the other is an absolute phenomenon. Statistically speaking, the Padres could cut Hosmer right now and they would be a better team.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 25, 2021 9:55:27 GMT -8
Since Eric Hosmer's half Cuban, you would have just pulled out the race card, so what's the point? Besides, Hosmer does not blatantly dog it around other bases like Machado does AT TIMES. Also, I only watch the Padres so I don't see other players dogging it blatantly, but if I did notice it blatantly, I would say something. It's not the "race card" - By the way, people that use this term incessantly and without justification....yeah, not a great look, let's just say. It's a reality. I posted a handful of examples of blatant racism and cultural bias against players of color. Those are not isolated - It permeates baseball throughout the league. If you can't readily come to a conclusion that there's a hypocritical double standard and bias towards players of Hispanic/Latino heritage...I can't help you. Hosmer doesn't dog it around the bases? Perhaps you should watch closer and take your focus off of Manny or your old target, Tommy Pham. Hosmer and Manny could not be any more different. One's an absolute liability, the other is an absolute phenomenon. Statistically speaking, the Padres could cut Hosmer right now and they would be a better team. Do you think Hosmer's clutch? I'm not a huge Hosmer fan by the way. I'll have to see if Hosmer dogs it sometimes by not taking the extra when there's an opportunity, etc..... I'm not talking about trotting to first so much. By the way, people who use a racist example at the drop of a hat is not a good look either.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Jun 25, 2021 10:21:18 GMT -8
It's not the "race card" - By the way, people that use this term incessantly and without justification....yeah, not a great look, let's just say. It's a reality. I posted a handful of examples of blatant racism and cultural bias against players of color. Those are not isolated - It permeates baseball throughout the league. If you can't readily come to a conclusion that there's a hypocritical double standard and bias towards players of Hispanic/Latino heritage...I can't help you. Hosmer doesn't dog it around the bases? Perhaps you should watch closer and take your focus off of Manny or your old target, Tommy Pham. Hosmer and Manny could not be any more different. One's an absolute liability, the other is an absolute phenomenon. Statistically speaking, the Padres could cut Hosmer right now and they would be a better team. Do you think Hosmer's clutch? I'm not a huge Hosmer fan by the way. I'll have to see if Hosmer dogs it sometimes by not taking the extra when there's an opportunity, etc..... I'm not talking about trotting to first so much. By the way, people who use a racist example at the drop of a hat is not a good look either. Moving the goalposts already, I see. Man, if you get hung up on not going first to third on a single...or not breaking up a double play based on whatever babble you rationalize with, you will never, ever be satisfied. You get what you look for, especially with an already enforced bias towards what you perceive. Basic psychology 101. Clutch is a subjective, hard-to-quantify statistic that looks a lot like luck over time. There is no way to accurately discern or predict future events when it comes to "clutch." I look at value, which encompasses everything that a player brings to the table. Hosmer's been worth -5.7MM this season. That's not very clutch, is it?
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 25, 2021 10:35:25 GMT -8
Do you think Hosmer's clutch? I'm not a huge Hosmer fan by the way. I'll have to see if Hosmer dogs it sometimes by not taking the extra when there's an opportunity, etc..... I'm not talking about trotting to first so much. By the way, people who use a racist example at the drop of a hat is not a good look either. Moving the goalposts already, I see. Man, if you get hung up on not going first to third on a single...or not breaking up a double play based on whatever babble you rationalize with, you will never, ever be satisfied. You get what you look for, especially with an already enforced bias towards what you perceive. Basic psychology 101. Clutch is a subjective, hard-to-quantify statistic that looks a lot like luck over time. There is no way to accurately discern or predict future events when it comes to "clutch." I look at value, which encompasses everything that a player brings to the table. Hosmer's been worth -5.7MM this season. That's not very clutch, is it? You're too much Ryan. You over analyze the s##t out of everything, from your stats, to the race card. It's really hard to have a conversation with you sometimes. Talk about babble. Sheesh. By the way, I'll take Hosmer's 321 batting average with RISP and better yet, I'll take his 326 batting average with RISP with 2 outs. Seems pretty darn clutch to me.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Jun 25, 2021 11:27:01 GMT -8
Moving the goalposts already, I see. Man, if you get hung up on not going first to third on a single...or not breaking up a double play based on whatever babble you rationalize with, you will never, ever be satisfied. You get what you look for, especially with an already enforced bias towards what you perceive. Basic psychology 101. Clutch is a subjective, hard-to-quantify statistic that looks a lot like luck over time. There is no way to accurately discern or predict future events when it comes to "clutch." I look at value, which encompasses everything that a player brings to the table. Hosmer's been worth -5.7MM this season. That's not very clutch, is it? You're too much Ryan. You over analyze the s##t out of everything, from your stats, to the race card. It's really hard to have a conversation with you sometimes. Talk about babble. Sheesh. By the way, I'll take Hosmer's 321 batting average with RISP and better yet, I'll take his 326 batting average with RISP with 2 outs. Seems pretty darn clutch to me. Analysis is key to understanding. It's why stats exist in the first place, to be able to quantify a particular number against an established baseline. For all those wonderfully gaudy numbers, Eric Hosmer has been a negative asset his entire Padres career. He's been worth 0.0 wins above replacement since he was signed here. Nice batting average though with guys on. Lol.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 25, 2021 12:46:49 GMT -8
You're too much Ryan. You over analyze the s##t out of everything, from your stats, to the race card. It's really hard to have a conversation with you sometimes. Talk about babble. Sheesh. By the way, I'll take Hosmer's 321 batting average with RISP and better yet, I'll take his 326 batting average with RISP with 2 outs. Seems pretty darn clutch to me. Analysis is key to understanding. It's why stats exist in the first place, to be able to quantify a particular number against an established baseline. For all those wonderfully gaudy numbers, Eric Hosmer has been a negative asset his entire Padres career. He's been worth 0.0 wins above replacement since he was signed here. Nice batting average though with guys on. Lol. Too funny. Only you would knock a great stat like that to try and make it fit your point. Lol. And, when Hosmer's up with RISP I'm happy about that, which he earned. Also, he's a great clubhouse guy, something that you pointed out with Pham, but won't with Hosmer, because it devalues the point you're TRYING to make.
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Jun 25, 2021 13:19:56 GMT -8
Analysis is key to understanding. It's why stats exist in the first place, to be able to quantify a particular number against an established baseline. For all those wonderfully gaudy numbers, Eric Hosmer has been a negative asset his entire Padres career. He's been worth 0.0 wins above replacement since he was signed here. Nice batting average though with guys on. Lol. Too funny. Only you would knock a great stat like that to try and make it fit your point. Lol. And, when Hosmer's up with RISP I'm happy about that, which he earned. Also, he's a great clubhouse guy, something that you pointed out with Pham, but won't with Hosmer, because it devalues the point you're TRYING to make. There's literally nothing accurate about this at all. Hosmer's a great clubhouse guy? According to who? You do know that Hosmer was asked to try and incorporate launch/loft into his swing...and refused, right? Went back to his brother in Florida who operates as his hitting coach. You know that he was quoted as saying that he's basically done with analytics and is secure with what he brings to the game from an offensive/defensive standpoint, right? (Spoiler alert : He's in the bottom five defensively this season at his position and is dead last since his Padre tenure began) Without going off the rails and devaluing the topic, he's also an anti-vaxxer. So I'm not sure where this narrative was created that he's a great clubhouse presence - He's definitely a "me" guy. Oh, and here's the icing on the cake. blogs.fangraphs.com/the-padres-need-a-first-base-upgrade/The problem with your rudimentary logic is you're unable to discern between "clutch" - Which is impossible to define...and luck. Hosmer's overall numbers in his career in every scenario are very, very similar. Bases empty, bases loaded, close/late, far ahead, low leverage, high leverage. That tells me that statistically speaking, there isn't much difference in his performance. And it in no way, shape or form outweighs his awful defense and the rest of his profile. He's here because Ron Fowler gushed over him and saw him as a splashy and prestigious name to bring in on the strength of his performance as a Royal. Thankfully, Ron Fowler's no longer in charge of the daily baseball operations.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 15:07:36 GMT -8
While I don't disagree w/ your overall take on the matter, I strongly disagree that any regular season games in June are "meaningless". In fact, that may be the most surprised I have ever been at something you wrote. If we find ourselves 1 game out of the wild card -- you may feel differently. I am fine w/ Machados hustle. Does the "old school red ass" (im only 38 LOL) in me find it odd to see a pro jogging to first with his bat still in his hand? Sure. Am I annoyed about it? No. The problem with this logic is you can construct about a thousand different scenarios where one game is the difference and a thousand variables that go into that. I'm not a buyer for that exact reason. If you want to point towards a bigger picture scenario, that's fine. But if Manny not running to third on a single is the difference between us not making the playoffs and making it? Not a believer. Two separate topics there. I already conceded I primarily agreed with you. Divisional (or any) games in June all matter. None are meaningless.
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jun 25, 2021 15:09:57 GMT -8
Too funny. Only you would knock a great stat like that to try and make it fit your point. Lol. And, when Hosmer's up with RISP I'm happy about that, which he earned. Also, he's a great clubhouse guy, something that you pointed out with Pham, but won't with Hosmer, because it devalues the point you're TRYING to make. There's literally nothing accurate about this at all. Hosmer's a great clubhouse guy? According to who? You do know that Hosmer was asked to try and incorporate launch/loft into his swing...and refused, right? Went back to his brother in Florida who operates as his hitting coach. You know that he was quoted as saying that he's basically done with analytics and is secure with what he brings to the game from an offensive/defensive standpoint, right? (Spoiler alert : He's in the bottom five defensively this season at his position and is dead last since his Padre tenure began) Without going off the rails and devaluing the topic, he's also an anti-vaxxer. So I'm not sure where this narrative was created that he's a great clubhouse presence - He's definitely a "me" guy. Oh, and here's the icing on the cake. blogs.fangraphs.com/the-padres-need-a-first-base-upgrade/The problem with your rudimentary logic is you're unable to discern between "clutch" - Which is impossible to define...and luck. Hosmer's overall numbers in his career in every scenario are very, very similar. Bases empty, bases loaded, close/late, far ahead, low leverage, high leverage. That tells me that statistically speaking, there isn't much difference in his performance. And it in no way, shape or form outweighs his awful defense and the rest of his profile. He's here because Ron Fowler gushed over him and saw him as a splashy and prestigious name to bring in on the strength of his performance as a Royal. Thankfully, Ron Fowler's no longer in charge of the daily baseball operations. There's plenty of articles on how great of a clubhouse guy Hosmer is. Just google it. I don't know if I'm surprised you didn't know that. Sheesh. If he keeps producing with RISP then I'm fine with him sticking to his current swing, and I'm sure the team is as well. By the way, great team player and great team move when he sacrificed his at bat to lay down a bunt the other day, huh?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2021 15:13:16 GMT -8
ANY of his efforts or actions? How do you know if his lack of effort on a certain play didn't lose a crucial game, for example, if he could have taken an extra base by hustling more, and got into scoring position and the next batter gets a hit and that would have been the winning run, but ultimately Machado is stranded at third and the Pads lose the game. All games are important and if the Manager is telling them otherwise, or if a player has that mentality, then that's a shame. He knows because smart people and genuine people don't use hindsight to construct confirmation bias. For some of us, the value he brings on a daily basis comprehensively trumps an individual action. Playing the hypothetical what if scenario is a fool's errand because you can apply the same exact criticism towards a dozen other things in the same game and same manner. FWIW, if Tingler or Preller had a problem with it -- you & I would not know about it. That sh*t would be kept in house, for many obvious reasons. You're way too intelligent not to know this. You and I don't know how they REALLY feel, but I suspect you could be right.
|
|