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Post by Cwag on Jun 27, 2020 15:48:36 GMT -8
The fact of the matter is that it was never just the kneeling during the anthem that caused such outrage. The reason conservatives were upset is that it was a black man protesting something they for (strongly pro-police, against police reform, etc). If a white player decided to kneel during the anthem in protest of legal abortion I can guarantee those same people would’ve loved it and totally ignored whether it disrespected the flag. That is an ignorant thing to say as there was an event right here in San Diego of a white celebrity who mocked a national symbol before the start of a sporting event, and the nationwide outrage was crazy. If you want to look it up, it was Roseanne Barr singing the national anthem before a Padres game in 1990. I think that was from all the broken eardrums and glasses. Truly horrible.. |
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Post by gocoaztec on Jun 27, 2020 16:16:08 GMT -8
I went to the BLM website and find it to be as leftist as it is pro-black, and to filled with half truths and blatant lies. It’s purpose, to me, seems much more to inflame than inform. Just a couple of whoppers from the blm website: “White Supremacy is threatening our existence.” Fact: In 2018 there were 2925 black homicides, 234 were committed by white assailants. Whites make up approximately 60% of the population, and committed about 8% of the black homicides. These statistics do not take into account whether the homicides were justified or not. When blm makes such a radical, divisive statement, they have a responsibility to back it up with facts. But, we know that there is no truth to their allegation. “Police killings are now a leading cause of death among black men.” Fact: in 2018 there were 209 black suspects shot and killed by police. In 2018 there were 2925 black homicides, so police shootings account for 7% of black homicides (again, without regard for whether they were justified). But wait, BLM claims it’s a leading cause of death - there were 19,969,000 black males in 2018. Black mortality was 853 per 100,000 so, (math in public) 170335 black male Americans died in 2018. You can see what’s coming: 209 out of 170335 = 0.12% of black male deaths were due to police shootings. Sure, any reasonable person would agree that basically one out of thousand can now be considered “a leading cause of death”, right? So what’s the real story, a sad truth that I challenge you to find in the blm website? 2600 of the 2925 homicides were committed by black Americans against black Americans. That’s 89% percent, but it doesn’t even earn a sentence on the blm website, because it doesn’t fit their narrative. It’s a leftist website attempting to cause division and unrest by using the trusting good nature of most Americans. Sources: www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xlswww.kff.org/other/state-indicator/death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&selectedDistributions=black&selectedRows=%7B%22wrapups%22:%7B%22united-states%22:%7B%7D%7D%7D&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/race/2018/ppl-ba18/ba18tab1.xlsblacklivesmatter.com/The vast majority of homicide victims are killed by people of their own race. People tend to kill who they know. Since 2001, black on black and white-on-white homicides as a proportion of those killed of each race peaked at 91.9 and 87.2 percent, respectively. There is no statistical difference in white on white murders and that of Blacks...whites killed more whites than Blacks killed anybody. Lots of interesting stuff in your reply. I’ll touch on them one at a time. Lets see where we seem to agree: The sources I referenced are valid, since you also referenced them as well. ”The vast majority of homicide victims are killed by people of their own race. People tend to kill who they know.” Agree. But this is a straw man. I never claimed that blacks killed more whites than whites killed. What I did claim is there is no proof to the blm statement that “white supremacy is threatening our (black) existence.” You have confirmed my position that the vast majority of black homicides are committed by black assailants - where is the proof that bigoted whites are threatening black existence? Maybe we need to go into the definition of the word “existence”? ex•ist•ence ĭg-zĭs′təns► n. The fact or state of existing; being. n. The fact or state of continued being; life If there was a “wlm” claiming that “black supremacy is threatening our existence” I would use the very data that you provided to prove that it was a lie, wouldn’t you? But, let’s take a big step back - are you so wedded to blm that you can’t acknowledge that a serious and highly inflammatory statement like “white supremacy is threatening our existence” needs to be proven or at least explained? Yes, they can write anything that they want on their website, but how can you take it seriously? Should we take it literally - that white supremists have killed so many Black Americans that the very existence of black people in America is in jeopardy? This is retarded - I hope that I don’t need to post a link that shows that the black population in America has shown steady growth for many years. Taking it literally is so preposterous that I gave blm the benefit of the doubt and assumed they meant it to mean something along the lines of “whites are killing blacks in large numbers to intimidate blacks and suppress advancement in the black community.” Of course, that’s not what they wrote, and even this “less literal” interpretation is not true, as you and I have come to agree. So, why did they write such a statement? Do we need to wordsmith it into something that doesn’t even resemble common usage in order to protect blm? Why? |
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U.S. Flag
Jun 27, 2020 16:23:57 GMT -8
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Post by aztecking on Jun 27, 2020 16:23:57 GMT -8
The fact of the matter is that it was never just the kneeling during the anthem that caused such outrage. The reason conservatives were upset is that it was a black man protesting something they for (strongly pro-police, against police reform, etc). If a white player decided to kneel during the anthem in protest of legal abortion I can guarantee those same people would’ve loved it and totally ignored whether it disrespected the flag. That is an ignorant thing to say as there was an event right here in San Diego of a white celebrity who mocked a national symbol before the start of a sporting event, and the nationwide outrage was crazy. If you want to look it up, it was Roseanne Barr singing the national anthem before a Padres game in 1990. That’s just a tad bit different, but I suppose you already know that. She intentionally sang the song badly as a joke. Kaepernick kneeling was a silent protest in the hope of changing police treatment of minorities. It was not meant as a joke or meant to mock in any way. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jun 27, 2020 17:01:30 GMT -8
That is an ignorant thing to say as there was an event right here in San Diego of a white celebrity who mocked a national symbol before the start of a sporting event, and the nationwide outrage was crazy. If you want to look it up, it was Roseanne Barr singing the national anthem before a Padres game in 1990. That’s just a tad bit different, but I suppose you already know that. She intentionally sang the song badly as a joke. Kaepernick kneeling was a silent protest in the hope of changing police treatment of minorities. It was not meant as a joke or meant to mock in any way. The intentions of the performer are irrelevant. You statement of how a crowd would react given a different skin color are what I’m pointing out, and in that incident the national did not take it as a joke. The crowd did not love it or totally ignore it. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 27, 2020 17:14:54 GMT -8
That’s just a tad bit different, but I suppose you already know that. She intentionally sang the song badly as a joke. Kaepernick kneeling was a silent protest in the hope of changing police treatment of minorities. It was not meant as a joke or meant to mock in any way. The intentions of the performer are irrelevant. You statement of how a crowd would react given a different skin color are what I’m pointing out, and in that incident the national did not take it as a joke. The crowd did not love it or totally ignore it. That's right. Most people felt she disrespected the flag. It was in bad taste. For someone to believe that if someone of any other color than black, disrespected the flag in any way, they wouldn't get back lash, would be very naive on their part. |
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Post by aztecking on Jun 27, 2020 18:48:15 GMT -8
The intentions of the performer are irrelevant. You statement of how a crowd would react given a different skin color are what I’m pointing out, and in that incident the national did not take it as a joke. The crowd did not love it or totally ignore it. That's right. Most people felt she disrespected the flag. It was in bad taste. For someone to believe that if someone of any other color than black, disrespected the flag in any way, they wouldn't get back lash, would be very naive on their part. If Tim Tebow kneeled during the anthem to protest abortion and you don’t believe a very large part of the GOP, millions of evangelicals, numerous Fox News hosts, etc, wouldn’t be praising him then you’ve been asleep for the past few years. |
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Jun 27, 2020 19:43:33 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 27, 2020 19:43:33 GMT -8
That's right. Most people felt she disrespected the flag. It was in bad taste. For someone to believe that if someone of any other color than black, disrespected the flag in any way, they wouldn't get back lash, would be very naive on their part. If Tim Tebow kneeled during the anthem to protest abortion and you don’t believe a very large part of the GOP, millions of evangelicals, numerous Fox News hosts, etc, wouldn’t be praising him then you’ve been asleep for the past few years. If Tim Tebow kneeled during the National Anthem (which he never would) I guarantee you people would be shocked and very disappointed with him in using that as his platform. Would he get some support, just like the athletes are getting? Of course he would. I think most people would say, love Tim Tebow, but I don't support this. For most people, kneeling during the National Anthem is a no no, no matter what race you are, or what your beliefs are. This isn't too difficult to figure out. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jun 27, 2020 19:45:22 GMT -8
That's right. Most people felt she disrespected the flag. It was in bad taste. For someone to believe that if someone of any other color than black, disrespected the flag in any way, they wouldn't get back lash, would be very naive on their part. If Tim Tebow kneeled during the anthem to protest abortion and you don’t believe a very large part of the GOP, millions of evangelicals, numerous Fox News hosts, etc, wouldn’t be praising him then you’ve been asleep for the past few years. I think the scenario you’ve painted of Tim Tebow kneeling during the national anthem to protest abortion is untethered from reality. There are real issues in the world. How about we focus on those before disappearing into some imaginary construct full of imaginary people having an imaginary reaction to a ridiculous imagined gesture? |
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U.S. Flag
Jun 27, 2020 19:47:18 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 27, 2020 19:47:18 GMT -8
If Tim Tebow kneeled during the anthem to protest abortion and you don’t believe a very large part of the GOP, millions of evangelicals, numerous Fox News hosts, etc, wouldn’t be praising him then you’ve been asleep for the past few years. I think the scenario you’ve painted of Tim Tebow kneeling during the national anthem to protest abortion is untethered from reality. There are real issues in the world. How about we focus on those before disappearing into some imaginary construct full of imaginary people having an imaginary reaction to a ridiculous imagined gesture? That's what people do when they have no answer. Stretch the truth and grasp at straws. |
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Jun 27, 2020 21:20:58 GMT -8
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Post by aztecking on Jun 27, 2020 21:20:58 GMT -8
If Tim Tebow kneeled during the anthem to protest abortion and you don’t believe a very large part of the GOP, millions of evangelicals, numerous Fox News hosts, etc, wouldn’t be praising him then you’ve been asleep for the past few years. I think the scenario you’ve painted of Tim Tebow kneeling during the national anthem to protest abortion is untethered from reality. There are real issues in the world. How about we focus on those before disappearing into some imaginary construct full of imaginary people having an imaginary reaction to a ridiculous imagined gesture? It’s a point made to show the hypocrisy of conservatives essentially calling him an America hating coward. |
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Jun 27, 2020 21:24:23 GMT -8
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Post by aztecking on Jun 27, 2020 21:24:23 GMT -8
If Tim Tebow kneeled during the anthem to protest abortion and you don’t believe a very large part of the GOP, millions of evangelicals, numerous Fox News hosts, etc, wouldn’t be praising him then you’ve been asleep for the past few years. If Tim Tebow kneeled during the National Anthem (which he never would) I guarantee you people would be shocked and very disappointed with him in using that as his platform. Would he get some support, just like the athletes are getting? Of course he would. I think most people would say, love Tim Tebow, but I don't support this. For most people, kneeling during the National Anthem is a no no, no matter what race you are, or what your beliefs are. This isn't too difficult to figure out. As someone else pointed out earlier on in this thread, when and who determined kneeling during the anthem was some traitorous gesture? It was initially a combat veteran that suggested it to Kaepernick.If you’ve ever been to a sporting event then you’ve surely seen people during the anthem not taking off their hat, sitting, carrying a beer from the concession stand, taking a piss, etc. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 27, 2020 21:49:35 GMT -8
If Tim Tebow kneeled during the National Anthem (which he never would) I guarantee you people would be shocked and very disappointed with him in using that as his platform. Would he get some support, just like the athletes are getting? Of course he would. I think most people would say, love Tim Tebow, but I don't support this. For most people, kneeling during the National Anthem is a no no, no matter what race you are, or what your beliefs are. This isn't too difficult to figure out. As someone else pointed out earlier on in this thread, when and who determined kneeling during the anthem was some traitorous gesture? It was initially a combat veteran that suggested it to Kaepernick.If you’ve ever been to a sporting event then you’ve surely seen people during the anthem not taking off their hat, sitting, carrying a beer from tbt concession stand, taking a piss, etc. It has zero to do with disrespecting the military. That's just a defense mechanism that the "patriot" movement clings to to hide their deficiences of human empathy for anyone outside their bubble. My dad served in Vietnam for four years, was awarded two Purple Hearts and was nominated for the Medal of Honor. He would have understood the difference between social injustice and disrespect to a flag he upheld with his life. |
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Post by missiontrails on Jun 27, 2020 22:40:07 GMT -8
As someone else pointed out earlier on in this thread, when and who determined kneeling during the anthem was some traitorous gesture? It was initially a combat veteran that suggested it to Kaepernick.If you’ve ever been to a sporting event then you’ve surely seen people during the anthem not taking off their hat, sitting, carrying a beer from tbt concession stand, taking a piss, etc. It has zero to do with disrespecting the military. That's just a defense mechanism that the "patriot" movement clings to to hide their deficiences of human empathy for anyone outside their bubble. My dad served in Vietnam for four years, was awarded two Purple Hearts and was nominated for the Medal of Honor. He would have understood the difference between social injustice and disrespect to a flag he upheld with his life. Would any of you conservatives care to explain (spin) this? And let us know what your reaction would have been if our 44th president did the same (be honest).  |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jun 28, 2020 5:20:32 GMT -8
I think the scenario you’ve painted of Tim Tebow kneeling during the national anthem to protest abortion is untethered from reality. There are real issues in the world. How about we focus on those before disappearing into some imaginary construct full of imaginary people having an imaginary reaction to a ridiculous imagined gesture? It’s a point made to show the hypocrisy of conservatives essentially calling him an America hating coward. It isn’t a point. It is a fantasy. There is no hypocrisy because conservatives never actually did what you imagine. The *ONLY* thing you’ve revealed is an apparent inability to differentiate the real world from radical day dreams. The crowd booing Roseanne Barr: real. The crowd cheering Tim Tebow for kneeling to protest abortion: not real. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jun 28, 2020 6:04:59 GMT -8
It has zero to do with disrespecting the military. That's just a defense mechanism that the "patriot" movement clings to to hide their deficiences of human empathy for anyone outside their bubble. My dad served in Vietnam for four years, was awarded two Purple Hearts and was nominated for the Medal of Honor. He would have understood the difference between social injustice and disrespect to a flag he upheld with his life. Would any of you conservatives care to explain (spin) this? And let us know what your reaction would have been if our 44th president did the same (be honest). Which part? Aztecryan building a strawman fashioned to look like his dead father? My best guess is that he was trying to pull off an argumentum ab verecundiam but didn’t have the requisite accolades himself so he conjured up an image decorated with truly praiseworthy achievements to voice aztecryan’s words, but you’d really have to ask aztecryan to explain his thought process for crafting that post. As far as #44 doing the same, is Tim Tebow also there kneeling for abortion? I don’t understand this trend of venturing off into some theater of the mind. If instead you are asking about the tie between the flag and the military, it is because you are dealing with symbols. Kaepernick’s actual protest is aimed at a symbol. He isn’t kneeling upon receiving news of police brutality. Kaepernick makes a show of disrespect when the flag is presented and the national anthem plays. He then explains what his show was meant to symbolize, but he does not have the authority to force everyone against their will to see the symbols being disrespected as representing exactly what Kaepernick sees them as representing. The flag and anthem represents systemic oppression to Kaepernick. The flag and anthem represent ideals and past family sacrifice to Joe Fan. Neither one is wrong. The flag is some color stained cloth and the anthem is just musical notes. The Kaepernicks of the world do not get to tell the Joe Fans who are upset by the display that they are wrong. |
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Jun 28, 2020 7:45:20 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 28, 2020 7:45:20 GMT -8
Would any of you conservatives care to explain (spin) this? And let us know what your reaction would have been if our 44th president did the same (be honest). Which part? Aztecryan building a strawman fashioned to look like his dead father? My best guess is that he was trying to pull off an argumentum ab verecundiam but didn’t have the requisite accolades himself so he conjured up an image decorated with truly praiseworthy achievements to voice aztecryan’s words, but you’d really have to ask aztecryan to explain his thought process for crafting that post. As far as #44 doing the same, is Tim Tebow also there kneeling for abortion? I don’t understand this trend of venturing off into some theater of the mind. If instead you are asking about the tie between the flag and the military, it is because you are dealing with symbols. Kaepernick’s actual protest is aimed at a symbol. He isn’t kneeling upon receiving news of police brutality. Kaepernick makes a show of disrespect when the flag is presented and the national anthem plays. He then explains what his show was meant to symbolize, but he does not have the authority to force everyone against their will to see the symbols being disrespected as representing exactly what Kaepernick sees them as representing. The flag and anthem represents systemic oppression to Kaepernick. The flag and anthem represent ideals and past family sacrifice to Joe Fan. Neither one is wrong. The flag is some color stained cloth and the anthem is just musical notes. The Kaepernicks of the world do not get to tell the Joe Fans who are upset by the display that they are wrong. You're just an awful human being. Not a surprise. |
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Jun 28, 2020 8:59:37 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 28, 2020 8:59:37 GMT -8
It has zero to do with disrespecting the military. That's just a defense mechanism that the "patriot" movement clings to to hide their deficiences of human empathy for anyone outside their bubble. My dad served in Vietnam for four years, was awarded two Purple Hearts and was nominated for the Medal of Honor. He would have understood the difference between social injustice and disrespect to a flag he upheld with his life. Would any of you conservatives care to explain (spin) this? And let us know what your reaction would have been if our 44th president did the same (be honest). I don't understand. You mean hug and kiss the flag? |
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U.S. Flag
Jun 28, 2020 9:06:26 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 28, 2020 9:06:26 GMT -8
If Tim Tebow kneeled during the National Anthem (which he never would) I guarantee you people would be shocked and very disappointed with him in using that as his platform. Would he get some support, just like the athletes are getting? Of course he would. I think most people would say, love Tim Tebow, but I don't support this. For most people, kneeling during the National Anthem is a no no, no matter what race you are, or what your beliefs are. This isn't too difficult to figure out. As someone else pointed out earlier on in this thread, when and who determined kneeling during the anthem was some traitorous gesture? It was initially a combat veteran that suggested it to Kaepernick.If you’ve ever been to a sporting event then you’ve surely seen people during the anthem not taking off their hat, sitting, carrying a beer from the concession stand, taking a piss, etc. All of those mentioned, except Kaepernick, are disrespectful if intentional. To many, Kaepernicks gesture is a slap in the face to our military, etc... There can be degrees of disrespect. I know MANY military, ex and current, who despise Kaepernicks act. |
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Jun 28, 2020 9:25:51 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 28, 2020 9:25:51 GMT -8
As someone else pointed out earlier on in this thread, when and who determined kneeling during the anthem was some traitorous gesture? It was initially a combat veteran that suggested it to Kaepernick.If you’ve ever been to a sporting event then you’ve surely seen people during the anthem not taking off their hat, sitting, carrying a beer from the concession stand, taking a piss, etc. All of those mentioned, except Kaepernick, are disrespectful if intentional. To many, Kaepernicks gesture is a slap in the face to our military, etc... There can be degrees of disrespect. I know MANY military, ex and current, who despise Kaepernicks act. Then they aren't very indicative and don't represent the greater majority of people who have enough common sense to connect straight line points that don't involve false conclusions. It has absolutely nothing to do with the military, in any shape or context. |
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Jun 28, 2020 9:58:24 GMT -8
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Post by ptsdthor on Jun 28, 2020 9:58:24 GMT -8
The SJWs offend by intent and action in their "protest". The monument makers of the past and those honoring the country and US flag at sporting events have no intent to offend - NONE. The left seeks to be offended by torturous logic and childish pique. Joe football fan loves his country and hates no one. The hypocrisy is obvious but the SJWs couldn't see it if it hit them with a truck.
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