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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 8:35:41 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES. You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board. It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind. I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses. So are you just going to post a bunch of bitching and whining and complaining, or are you going to post some ideas for constructive solutions? Just saying, "There's a problem - FIX IT," isn't constructive. We don't want to clamp down on discussion. We want people to be free to post their HONEST opinions. We are NOT mind readers, and it would not be legitimate to pretend to be able to know intent without a pattern of behavior to back it up. Personally, I have not read any posts from NCM that cross the line from honest, but negative and critical, opinion to trolling. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but since I've usually only got about a half hour a day to read stuff on The Mesa I miss a majority of what's posted here. If you read a post that you think is trolling SEND US A PM WITH A LINK TO THAT POST! Don't just bitch about it a week later and ass/u/me that we read it, too. If you can't see it, sending posts isn't going to change anything (as was mentioned above). If you spend 30 minutes a day here, and miss most threads, than I understand you may not get a complete sense of what is actually happening on your board. If that is indeed the case, I suggest you get one or two more assistant moderators who are a bit more liberal with the temporary and permanent block buttons. I wasn't kidding above when I said fembone may have insulated you from much of this. She didn't put up with shiet. You got two warnings and you were gone. And it was never, ever unreasonable or unwanted by the members here and there were no first amendment lawsuits etc. I think she was fair because she spent a lot of time on the board herself and was able to see context beyond just receiving complaints 30 minutes a day.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:36:04 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES. You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board. It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind. I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses. Well said. Now that I think about it, I can remember in the past trolls being run for being trolls. Not any more. Ummmm... We banned a troll just about 2 weeks ago. We just didn't post a thread announcing it. It still happens - when there are rules violations. We can't just ban someone for posting unpopular opinions. That would be wrong.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:40:41 GMT -8
So are you just going to post a bunch of bitching and whining and complaining, or are you going to post some ideas for constructive solutions? Just saying, "There's a problem - FIX IT," isn't constructive. We don't want to clamp down on discussion. We want people to be free to post their HONEST opinions. We are NOT mind readers, and it would not be legitimate to pretend to be able to know intent without a pattern of behavior to back it up. Personally, I have not read any posts from NCM that cross the line from honest, but negative and critical, opinion to trolling. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but since I've usually only got about a half hour a day to read stuff on The Mesa I miss a majority of what's posted here. If you read a post that you think is trolling SEND US A PM WITH A LINK TO THAT POST! Don't just bitch about it a week later and ass/u/me that we read it, too. If you can't see it, sending posts isn't going to change anything (as was mentioned above). If you spend 30 minutes a day here, and miss most threads, than I understand you may not get a complete sense of what is actually happening on your board. If that is indeed the case, I suggest you get one or two more assistant moderators who are a bit more liberal with the temporary and permanent block buttons. We do have a third moderator. You know that, right? And that's why she left. She got tired of the bitching and moaning and childish behavior. She just threw her hands up in the air and said, "ENOUGH!!!" It wasn't the rule breakers she had a problem with, either. That stuff is easy to deal with because it's cut and dried, black and white. I tried to get her to stay, but she just couldn't deal with all the bitching and complaining about other board members anymore. She's much happier now. She has more free time and feels a lot less stress. Good for her.
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 13, 2017 8:40:56 GMT -8
Well said. Now that I think about it, I can remember in the past trolls being run for being trolls. Not any more. Ummmm... We banned a troll just about 2 weeks ago. We just didn't post a thread announcing it. It still happens - when there are rules violations. We can't just ban someone for posting unpopular opinions. That would be wrong. No wonder I didn't notice it, it was only one. Tough job, but sometimes it's obvious.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:45:37 GMT -8
If you can't see it, sending posts isn't going to change anything (as was mentioned above). If you spend 30 minutes a day here, and miss most threads, than I understand you may not get a complete sense of what is actually happening on your board. You're contradicting yourself there. If you acknowledge that 30 minutes a day may not always give a complete picture of what's going on, wouldn't posting a link to offending posts be EXTREMELY helpful in giving a more complete picture? So sending links to offending posts by PM may very well change things. Are you just saying you don't want to put in the effort? It's easier to bitch and moan and complain than to put in the work to try and solve the issue?
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 8:46:19 GMT -8
If you can't see it, sending posts isn't going to change anything (as was mentioned above). If you spend 30 minutes a day here, and miss most threads, than I understand you may not get a complete sense of what is actually happening on your board. If that is indeed the case, I suggest you get one or two more assistant moderators who are a bit more liberal with the temporary and permanent block buttons. We do have a third moderator. You know that, right? And that's why she left. She got tired of the bitching and moaning and childish behavior. She just threw her hands up in the air and said, "ENOUGH!!!" It wasn't the rule breakers she had a problem with, either. That stuff is easy to deal with because it's cut and dried, black and white. I tried to get her to stay, but she just couldn't deal with all the bitching and complaining about other board members anymore. She's much happier now. She has more free time and feels a lot less stress. Good for her. 1) You see where I said one or two more assistant moderators, right? 2) Oh, I don't doubt it. That is a thankless job and I can see where trying to take it seriously could be stressful to a certain extent. But now, as I mentioned, the person who was quick to stop certain types of posters by understanding context and moving swiftly to deal with it is gone. As a result, quality of discussion and availability of useful information has plummeted. Maybe you see it and are tentative to do anything about it, maybe you don't spend enough time reading through threads to see it. I don't know.
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Post by mnico213 on Mar 13, 2017 8:46:24 GMT -8
If you can't see it, sending posts isn't going to change anything (as was mentioned above). If you spend 30 minutes a day here, and miss most threads, than I understand you may not get a complete sense of what is actually happening on your board. If that is indeed the case, I suggest you get one or two more assistant moderators who are a bit more liberal with the temporary and permanent block buttons. We do have a third moderator. You know that, right? And that's why she left. She got tired of the bitching and moaning and childish behavior. She just threw her hands up in the air and said, "ENOUGH!!!" It wasn't the rule breakers she had a problem with, either. That stuff is easy to deal with because it's cut and dried, black and white. I tried to get her to stay, but she just couldn't deal with all the bitching and complaining about other board members anymore. She's much happier now. She has more free time and feels a lot less stress. Good for her. Nobody has bitched or whined or complained or cried about something that is supposed to be their own responsibility in this thread more than you.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:53:16 GMT -8
Nobody has bitched or whined or complained or cried about something that is supposed to be their own responsibility in this thread more than you. No, I'm just pointing out that we are doing what we can within the rules. If you've got a solution or a better idea, please share it! This is an unpaid, volunteer position, and the hordes with pitchforks and torches already ran off the mod who had the most time to put in to the job.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 8:56:48 GMT -8
It's easier to bitch and moan and complain than to put in the work to try and solve the issue? Here: two posts from the same thread. Do I know if any of your rules have been broken? No idea. But I've been warned for calling someone by the name of their school mascot, and I'd bet you'd be pretty hard pressed to find exactly what rule I violated there. So can you really not tell the difference between these two posts? How one is reasonable and one provides 1) yes, an alternate take, but 2) an infantile tone and no real content that anyone who disagrees would even entertain responding to? Here is a point to consider. This has been considered, by most fans, to be a bad season for Aztec basketball. However, we had a winning record. A winning season being considered to be a bad season has ONLY occurred under Coach Fisher. He has elevated this program so far beyond what every other coach in the D1 era did that we are in uncharted territory for Aztec basketball. A season with a winning record is a bad season. That's pretty damned amazing. So if Coach Fisher believes that he can't turn the program around, or if he believes that he just doesn't have the energy or commitment to do it, then he should retire. Otherwise he's earned the right to decide when he retires. Absolutely especially if he does not start to recruit centers all of the lies the lazyness is over he makes way too much money.All of them are lazy Dutcher etc. all of them!They better plan on working 24/7 if they want to coach here.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Mar 13, 2017 8:57:53 GMT -8
I could spend more time here but I prefer to give the members the benefit of the doubt that they can play nice for awhile without requiring a referee to separate/ban them!
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 9:00:47 GMT -8
I could spend more time here but I prefer to give the members the benefit of the doubt that they can play nice for awhile without requiring a referee to separate/ban them! Nothing I said above was meant to be a diss on you, fishn. I just don't see an eagerness (or ability? I don't know) to aggressively remove those who constantly tie the line.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 9:09:24 GMT -8
It's easier to bitch and moan and complain than to put in the work to try and solve the issue? Here: two posts from the same thread. Do I know if any of your rules have been broken? No idea. But I've been warned for calling someone by the name of their school mascot, and I'd bet you'd be pretty hard pressed to find exactly what rule I violated there. So can you really not tell the difference between these two posts? How one is reasonable and one provides 1) yes, an alternate take, but 2) an infantile tone and no real content that anyone who disagrees would even entertain responding to? Here is a point to consider. This has been considered, by most fans, to be a bad season for Aztec basketball. However, we had a winning record. A winning season being considered to be a bad season has ONLY occurred under Coach Fisher. He has elevated this program so far beyond what every other coach in the D1 era did that we are in uncharted territory for Aztec basketball. A season with a winning record is a bad season. That's pretty damned amazing. So if Coach Fisher believes that he can't turn the program around, or if he believes that he just doesn't have the energy or commitment to do it, then he should retire. Otherwise he's earned the right to decide when he retires. Absolutely especially if he does not start to recruit centers all of the lies the lazyness is over he makes way too much money.All of them are lazy Dutcher etc. all of them!They better plan on working 24/7 if they want to coach here. Well, obviously the first quote is a positive, supportive post. The second one is a critical, negative post. Apples and oranges. You can't compare them. Now, let's talk about purely negative posts. Negative posts do not equal trolling. They can, but a negative post isn't automatically a case of trolling. Hell, repeated negative posts aren't necessarily trolling. Take this basketball season, for example. There was a lot of negative stuff going on with both the players and the coaches. Mistakes aplenty. Plenty of grounds to post negative assessments. It cannot be considered unreasonable for a fan to be frustrated and even a bit angry over the dropoff of the program over the last two seasons (especially this season). Yes, as I posted, it IS a great place to be in when a winning season is considered to be a bad season, and it would really, really be nice if everyone understood that and could view the program with that perspective. But you can't make everyone look at it with that perspective. They have the right to be upset if they're upset. If you post a comment like mine above and someone chooses to either not take it to heart or to disagree completely that's up to them. Now, the 2nd post above certainly pushes that line towards trolling, and context and repetition is everything in determining whether or not it's trolling. On it's own, that one post is not trolling. It's pure frustration and anger - rational, given the downward trend over the last two seasons. But as part of a campaign to get under the skin of Aztec fans? One of many? If it IS one of many, then I'd need to see the many to be able to get that context and deal with it appropriately - but I can't do that If I don't see the other posts. So PM me links when you see a pattern, otherwise all your criticism just amounts to bluster and the squeaky wheel syndrome.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Mar 13, 2017 9:12:45 GMT -8
It may be a fault of mine. I prefer "enough rope to hang one's self" rather than over reaction to a little controversy. That's all. Perhaps one of the quick draws here wants to step up and play MOD? Maybe we "need" some ultra conservative thought police??
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 9:19:59 GMT -8
Now, the 2nd post above certainly pushes that line towards trolling, and context and repetition is everything in determining whether or not it's trolling. On it's own, that one post is not trolling. It's pure frustration and anger - rational, given the downward trend over the last two seasons. But as part of a campaign to get under the skin of Aztec fans? One of many? If it IS one of many, then I'd need to see the many to be able to get that context and deal with it appropriately - but I can't do that If I don't see the other posts. So PM me links when you see a pattern, otherwise all your criticism just amounts to bluster and the squeaky wheel syndrome. That's what everyone is trying to bring to your attention with this thread. Isn't it, by definition, the job of the moderators to be aware enough of what's happening on the board to spot things like this? Trust me, this is no cherry picked post I included -- it is one I found on the last page of the most recent thread, and isn't even comparatively bad. Maybe we've confused board owner with board moderator. And like I said, if you only spend 30 minutes on threads per day it is completely likely you do not have a full picture of what is going on. Hence, suggestion to add a moderator or two more who are in tune with what is happening around here on a day to day basis and can address things they see themselves.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 9:20:27 GMT -8
Erik - thanks for defending a few of us. It's amazing how a few posters can get so upset over something as seemingly trivial as the exchange of information and opinion over the internet. Maybe they're unaware that they're free to start their own message board (aka SDSU lovefest) if they're unhappy here or anywhere else. Alas, they'd prefer to call out certain posters who disagree with their opinions, requesting that users be banned simply because they say so. But I digress...
Classic - I'm away for a few days and I return to find people talking about me, calling for my head, etc. Too funny. In response to anyone thinking I try to steer debates or discussions to myself, please note that, contrary to popular belief, I do nothing of the sort. I disagree (quite frequently) and try to present a different perspective and that's it. Anyone's free to take it or leave it. If you don't like it, that's fine. I won't say you're wrong or start name-calling because of it (which is ironic because there are plenty of board members who do).
Additionally, if you really think I'm a troll and that I post for attention, please just ignore me. If I really was a troll, I'd leave because my fragile ego wouldn't be able to handle not being the center of attention. Alas, the fact that I've been called out by name multiple times leads me to believe that people don't really think of me as a troll; rather some guy that simply annoys others. They just like to call anyone who disagrees with them "trolls." I've said it plenty of times, I don't make myself bigger than a specific issue; everyone else does by blowing things up or out of proportion (like starting this thread).
This entire thread smacks of pent up anger and aggression that's finally being released because our basketball team just wasn't good this year.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 9:22:32 GMT -8
I could spend more time here but I prefer to give the members the benefit of the doubt that they can play nice for awhile without requiring a referee to separate/ban them! Nothing I said above was meant to be a diss on you, fishn. I just don't see an eagerness (or ability? I don't know) to aggressively remove those who constantly tie the line. This was actually one of my favorite skits, ever!
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Post by mnico213 on Mar 13, 2017 9:26:11 GMT -8
Nothing I said above was meant to be a diss on you, fishn. I just don't see an eagerness (or ability? I don't know) to aggressively remove those who constantly tie the line. This was actually one of my favorite skits, ever! This is a bannable post IMO, absolutely no need for that comma after skits.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Mar 13, 2017 9:31:36 GMT -8
This was actually one of my favorite skits, ever! This is a bannable post IMO, absolutely no need for that comma after skits. Geez, wait I'll fix it!
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 9:31:48 GMT -8
Now, the 2nd post above certainly pushes that line towards trolling, and context and repetition is everything in determining whether or not it's trolling. On it's own, that one post is not trolling. It's pure frustration and anger - rational, given the downward trend over the last two seasons. But as part of a campaign to get under the skin of Aztec fans? One of many? If it IS one of many, then I'd need to see the many to be able to get that context and deal with it appropriately - but I can't do that If I don't see the other posts. So PM me links when you see a pattern, otherwise all your criticism just amounts to bluster and the squeaky wheel syndrome. Here: currently the top comment on the top thread on your site, been up since yesterday. Name of thread... Players...WTFPlease defend this. Please try to say that the rules you yourself have created out of thin air should protect this, over and over and over, by the same posters over and over and over. It isn't hidden somewhere seven pages into a thread. It's right there. It is literally the first thing you see if you visit the site and click a thread.
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Post by AzTex on Mar 13, 2017 9:49:12 GMT -8
I can't see the word troll and not think of Droski. Wish we were playing Cal this year. He was fun. At least Droski made no pretense that he was an Aztec fan. He was loudly and proudly a Cal fan. Therefore, his "trolling" was much less irritating than our home grown trolls who claim to be real Aztec fans, but almost never have anything positive to say.
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