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Post by azteccc on Mar 12, 2017 22:23:17 GMT -8
This was never an issue with our old assistant manager.
BRING BACK FEMBONE 2017
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Post by originalshow00 on Mar 12, 2017 22:46:08 GMT -8
You guys wan't to win or what.Just shut up and sign the fuc... form.
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Post by K2Aztec73 on Mar 12, 2017 22:47:01 GMT -8
Kind of sad that so many people are so intolerant of views that differ from their own. Especially considering the people towards whom they are intolerant have the exact same hopes and desires that they do - successful athletic programs for San Diego State. I have seen zero evidence that the likes of Ctap13 and NCM fit that description.
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Post by legkick on Mar 12, 2017 23:10:41 GMT -8
I have seen zero evidence that the likes of Ctap13 and NCM fit that description. It is also a stupid, intellectually dishonest straw man. No one is claiming that differing opinions shouldn't be tolerated. Posters also have no choice in the matter. Tolerance is mere acquiescence in existence. It doesn't mean agreement, it doesn't mean respect. However. I am completely unsurprised by this. Emotionally infantile whiners play the persecution card, responsible adults inform and defend their opinions.
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Post by aztecfan1 on Mar 12, 2017 23:21:54 GMT -8
I can't see the word troll and not think of Droski. Wish we were playing Cal this year. He was fun.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Mar 12, 2017 23:23:04 GMT -8
Yikes, I didn't know I was aiding and abetting trolls!
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Post by hoobs on Mar 13, 2017 4:27:16 GMT -8
This was never an issue with our old assistant manager. BRING BACK FEMBONE 2017 I like her far too much to wish for her to come back here. But yes, once she left -- including *why* she left -- this place has been on a steeeeeep decline.
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Post by moctezumaii on Mar 13, 2017 4:28:14 GMT -8
Patent projection from a troll, rich. And yes, the trolls ruined this site a while ago, aided and abetted by the mods. Content free emoting and saying the team sucks is not worthy fan behavior. Fans don't do that, whiny immature narcissistic douches do it . . . over and over and over again. You trolls want a cookie for saying master of the obvious inanities like the team didn't play well this year? Not here. Troll.
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Post by longtimebooster on Mar 13, 2017 5:37:01 GMT -8
Here's my take, FWIW.
I get it. Few administrators want to stomp all over the concept of free speech just because someone poses an opinion or thought that is perhaps contrary to that of another person or persons on this site. If there were no differing opinions or analysis, there would be zero point in having a sports fan site of any kind.
So, agreed, let's be highly liberal with any application of Troll Stomping.
But, conversely, let's not fall into the trap of thinking that any and all contrary opinions should be welcomed and tolerated. That leaves the site vulnerable to occupation and domination by a small handful of graffiti writers and feces slingers. And sadly, that's what this place has fallen victim to.
So what is a troll? And is it really that hard to sniff one out? Really? Seriously? C'mon, mods. Do your job.
Let's start with what a troll isn't. I have zero issue with people who have opposing opinions and use logic, wit, or barroom brawling to get their points across. Makes the site interesting and fun. Also opens me up to new ideas and perspectives. And, yes, I get equally annoyed with Pollyanna perspectives from posters who perpetually say that any coach/player/administrator/team wearing red-and-black sh*ts only rose petals. And, yes, it's possible to be an Aztec fan who's highly critical of a coach/player/administrator/team. I can be very harsh in my analysis and believe I harped for at least 7 years daily/weekly about our need for a talented big man on the hoops team -- to the point of being ridiculed for it. However, I shut up about it as soon as we landed Abukar and then Thomas, as well as several other serviceable bigs. I can go on and on about a number of differing opinions that are honest and have some basis in reality -- maybe Fish should retire because of his age, maybe Rocky should retire, why does the football team have cr*ppy QBs, why do they have undersized/outperformed receivers, why is Pumphrey neither a god nor the Second Coming of Faulk, etc., etc.? And it also matters how such issues are debated and/or presented. That matters.
So what's a troll? I think you have to go to Justice Stevens take on how to identify pornography: "I know it when I see it." The same applies to trolls. They're not hard to spot. Let's take ctap and NCM as cases-in-point. ctap shows up to gleefully annoy as many people as possible. He takes joy in misery and derives elation from the failure of any Aztec player/team/coach. He crawls out from under his rock shortly after a loss, tosses as many stink bombs as possible, and then vanishes. Nothing he says or does has much logic or insight or helps to further a discussion. It's just a bunch of juvenile drivel. And then there's NCM, who claims to be a devoted Aztec fan and season ticket holder. Says he bleeds red-and-black and is only looking out for the best interest of the team. However, this is merely a smokescreen providing him cover for gleefully needling real fans and scattering piles of dung everywhere he can. As a result, people who come to this board for real information and discussion are left to spend their time scrapping stinky dung from the bottoms of their shoes. My problem for NCM, aside from the fact that I seem to have superpowers the admins lack in that I can discern his real motives, is that all of his posts are merely empty calories. They're a complete, utter waste of time. He takes a contrarian position and then proceeds through a lengthy argument that is neither logical nor insightful. It's just a bunch of blithering hot air. Then when a legitimate board denizen takes the bait, NCM will relentlessly retort, twisting the conversation back to himself, feigning personal emotional injury and claiming that everyone else is looking at the Aztecs through rose colored glasses and only he can see the forest for the trees. So after fruitlessly going mano-a-mano with him -- an exhausting exercise even for the most accomplished/prolific writer -- I took the first and only step I've ever taken against someone on this board: I blocked his posts from my view. And, yes, everyone says that's a great solution to trolls. But I'm here to tell you it isn't. For three months, I was seemingly NCM-free. Unfortunately, though, one can never be free of a bona fide troll. I would watch as legitimate conversations were perpetually hijacked and interesting discussions devolved into tirades about trivial matters. Always, NCM was at the center of each maelstrom. His blocked posts -- like big steaming cow patties -- were everywhere. Even if I couldn't see what he'd written, I could still see what he'd written -- just by the responses and the direction the original thread had taken.
I could go on, but the bottom line is this: Yes, trolls are ruining this site. And, no, it shouldn't take a First Amendment attorney and months/years of hand-wringing to sniff out the five to ten worst offenders and run them out of Dodge. No need to go overboard and put some plutonium in their Cheerios a la Putin, but how about a heavy dose of common sense? Let those blithering fools pedal their nonsense somewhere else. It's a big, vast Internet. Can we just keep this one small corner a little more tidy?
Moderators, do your jobs.
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Post by richpjr on Mar 13, 2017 5:52:28 GMT -8
Moderators, do your jobs. The reality is - they are doing their jobs. The problem for some is they are not interested in hearing a contrary opinion. I personally find it far more annoying to read the lectures from the intolerant pollyannas than negative people, but they are free to post here. I usually just skip right over what they write as what they post is uninteresting to me. There are very few real trolls here and a seemingly large number of frustrated fans who vent.
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Post by longtimebooster on Mar 13, 2017 6:05:07 GMT -8
Moderators, do your jobs. The reality is - they are doing their jobs. The problem for some is they are not interested in hearing a contrary opinion. I personally find it far more annoying to read the lectures from the intolerant pollyannas than negative people, but they are free to post here. I usually just skip right over what they write as what they post is uninteresting to me. There are very few real trolls here and a seemingly large number of frustrated fans who vent. Oh, puh-leeze. Go back and read a healthy dose of NCM or ctap posts. They're way beyond "intolerant pollyannas" or simply "negative" people. They're trolls.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 6:50:54 GMT -8
I have seen zero evidence that the likes of Ctap13 and NCM fit that description. It is also a stupid, intellectually dishonest straw man. No one is claiming that differing opinions shouldn't be tolerated. Posters also have no choice in the matter. Tolerance is mere acquiescence in existence. It doesn't mean agreement, it doesn't mean respect. However. I am completely unsurprised by this. Emotionally infantile whiners play the persecution card, responsible adults inform and defend their opinions. What a load of arrogant, condescending bull$#!+. Responsible adults don't attack or mock other people simply because they don't like their opinions. They try to persuade, not belittle.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 6:57:19 GMT -8
It is also a stupid, intellectually dishonest straw man. No one is claiming that differing opinions shouldn't be tolerated. Posters also have no choice in the matter. Tolerance is mere acquiescence in existence. It doesn't mean agreement, it doesn't mean respect. However. I am completely unsurprised by this. Emotionally infantile whiners play the persecution card, responsible adults inform and defend their opinions. What a load of arrogant, condescending bull$#!+. Responsible adults don't attack or mock other people simply because they don't like their opinions. They try to persuade, not belittle. No, it's actually pretty spot on.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 7:01:58 GMT -8
Here's my take, FWIW. I get it. Few administrators want to stomp all over the concept of free speech just because someone poses an opinion or thought that is perhaps contrary to that of another person or persons on this site. If there were no differing opinions or analysis, there would be zero point in having a sports fan site of any kind. So, agreed, let's be highly liberal with any application of Troll Stomping. But, conversely, let's not fall into the trap of thinking that any and all contrary opinions should be welcomed and tolerated. That leaves the site vulnerable to occupation and domination by a small handful of graffiti writers and feces slingers. And sadly, that's what this place has fallen victim to. So what is a troll? And is it really that hard to sniff one out? Really? Seriously? C'mon, mods. Do your job. Let's start with what a troll isn't. I have zero issue with people who have opposing opinions and use logic, wit, or barroom brawling to get their points across. Makes the site interesting and fun. Also opens me up to new ideas and perspectives. And, yes, I get equally annoyed with Pollyanna perspectives from posters who perpetually say that any coach/player/administrator/team wearing red-and-black sh*ts only rose petals. And, yes, it's possible to be an Aztec fan who's highly critical of a coach/player/administrator/team. I can be very harsh in my analysis and believe I harped for at least 7 years daily/weekly about our need for a talented big man on the hoops team -- to the point of being ridiculed for it. However, I shut up about it as soon as we landed Abukar and then Thomas, as well as several other serviceable bigs. I can go on and on about a number of differing opinions that are honest and have some basis in reality -- maybe Fish should retire because of his age, maybe Rocky should retire, why does the football team have cr*ppy QBs, why do they have undersized/outperformed receivers, why is Pumphrey neither a god nor the Second Coming of Faulk, etc., etc.? And it also matters how such issues are debated and/or presented. That matters. So what's a troll? I think you have to go to Justice Stevens take on how to identify pornography: "I know it when I see it." The same applies to trolls. They're not hard to spot. Let's take ctap and NCM as cases-in-point. ctap shows up to gleefully annoy as many people as possible. He takes joy in misery and derives elation from the failure of any Aztec player/team/coach. He crawls out from under his rock shortly after a loss, tosses as many stink bombs as possible, and then vanishes. Nothing he says or does has much logic or insight or helps to further a discussion. It's just a bunch of juvenile drivel. And then there's NCM, who claims to be a devoted Aztec fan and season ticket holder. Says he bleeds red-and-black and is only looking out for the best interest of the team. However, this is merely a smokescreen providing him cover for gleefully needling real fans and scattering piles of dung everywhere he can. As a result, people who come to this board for real information and discussion are left to spend their time scrapping stinky dung from the bottoms of their shoes. My problem for NCM, aside from the fact that I seem to have superpowers the admins lack in that I can discern his real motives, is that all of his posts are merely empty calories. They're a complete, utter waste of time. He takes a contrarian position and then proceeds through a lengthy argument that is neither logical nor insightful. It's just a bunch of blithering hot air. Then when a legitimate board denizen takes the bait, NCM will relentlessly retort, twisting the conversation back to himself, feigning personal emotional injury and claiming that everyone else is looking at the Aztecs through rose colored glasses and only he can see the forest for the trees. So after fruitlessly going mano-a-mano with him -- an exhausting exercise even for the most accomplished/prolific writer -- I took the first and only step I've ever taken against someone on this board: I blocked his posts from my view. And, yes, everyone says that's a great solution to trolls. But I'm here to tell you it isn't. For three months, I was seemingly NCM-free. Unfortunately, though, one can never be free of a bona fide troll. I would watch as legitimate conversations were perpetually hijacked and interesting discussions devolved into tirades about trivial matters. Always, NCM was at the center of each maelstrom. His blocked posts -- like big steaming cow patties -- were everywhere. Even if I couldn't see what he'd written, I could still see what he'd written -- just by the responses and the direction the original thread had taken. I could go on, but the bottom line is this: Yes, trolls are ruining this site. And, no, it shouldn't take a First Amendment attorney and months/years of hand-wringing to sniff out the five to ten worst offenders and run them out of Dodge. No need to go overboard and put some plutonium in their Cheerios a la Putin, but how about a heavy dose of common sense? Let those blithering fools pedal their nonsense somewhere else. It's a big, vast Internet. Can we just keep this one small corner a little more tidy? Moderators, do your jobs. The most unfortunate part of what you wrote, in a very detailed and thought out manner, is that we've been patient in trying to express this for years. We've gone the proper routes, and management just doesn't care. You are completely correct in what you've written, but for whatever reason (page views, maybe? I legitimately don't know) the owners of this page would rather let it be overrun by the asshattery you describe. There is never any cogent response other than a) just ignore them, or b) be open to other opinions. They are literally blind to what is happening and have no intention of fixing it. They don't see the obvious. They can't make the distinction every logical board member can between a troll and a contrarian. It's sad, and it's disappointing. I say "bring back Fembone" not so much as a serious request, but because I think there's a very real chance she would clean up the riff raff without the dynamic duo of family run ownership ever being the wiser.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 7:06:10 GMT -8
Moderators, do your jobs. Please, enlighten me - what rules has NCM broken? It's like being a cop - you can't arrest people for being annoying. If someone wants to protest something outside their own home, in their own yard, every day (stopping at 10:00 pm, never making enough noise to, "Disturb the peace") a cop can't do anything about it until and unless that person breaks the law. Are they a nuisance? Probably. Are they breaking the law? Nope. I have not seen NCM insult, attack, or mock other board members - and no one has PM'd me links with any such rule breaking. I've seen people break those rules when dealing with NCM, which creates all sorts of problems, but I haven't seen NCM do it. NCM is entitled to his opinion, as are you. If someone breaks the forum rules, we deal with it. I banned a troll a week and a half or two weeks ago due to rules violations. I can't do it just because people don't like what someone posts, there have to be rules violations. It's easy to bitch and moan about the mod staff, but no one actually wants the job. When we do take action (within the rules, deleting or editing posts, issuing warnings, etc) we're considered heavy handed bullies by some, but when we don't take action (because rules haven't been violated) some people say we aren't doing our jobs. And I disagree with your take on NCM. He strikes me as a passionate, dedicated fan who has become frustrated and posts to vent that frustration at times. Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen him violate forum rules. The other member who got banned DID violate forum rules, and his membership on The Mesa was terminated as a result.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 7:07:34 GMT -8
I feel no need to write a book on it but LTB is certainly correct here, it is pretty easy to tell the difference between who is a troll and who simply is expressing a contrary or emotional opinion on a topic. I'm not sure why folks have a problem seeing it.
That said, I've gotten to the point where the trolls don't bother me... if I feel like it, I just have fun with them.... if I don't, I just ignore them. It's really very easy to do. Just don't take them seriously.
I would say overall though that this site might be a tad better without the 'troll' end of it but the modes like it because it provides more traffic to their site.
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Post by aztecbrothers on Mar 13, 2017 7:08:13 GMT -8
There is the possibility that Trolls are indeed running this site? There are a bunch hiding in all the San Diego media outlets.
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Post by hoobs on Mar 13, 2017 7:13:00 GMT -8
...the bottom line is this: Yes, trolls are ruining this site. And, no, it shouldn't take a First Amendment attorney and months/years of hand-wringing to sniff out the five to ten worst offenders and run them out of Dodge. No need to go overboard and put some plutonium in their Cheerios a la Putin, but how about a heavy dose of common sense? Let those blithering fools pedal their nonsense somewhere else. It's a big, vast Internet. Can we just keep this one small corner a little more tidy? Moderators, do your jobs. THIS
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 7:21:01 GMT -8
Again, I'm not seeing even one actionable suggestion on how, within the rules, to make things better.
We can't ban someone for posting a legitimate opinion, even if it is an unpopular one.
We can issue warnings if someone is clearly, without question, posting things just to anger or upset others, and if they persist THEN we can ban them. But just for posting negative, unpopular opinions? Nope. And we're not mind readers, and neither are any of you, so it takes a lot longer to deal with trolls than other rule breakers. It's not cut and dried. Where is that line that separates legitimate opinion or frustration from trolling? It's like that yellow line for first downs on TV. It doesn't exist on the field.
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Post by mnico213 on Mar 13, 2017 7:32:44 GMT -8
Moderators, do your jobs. And I disagree with your take on NCM. He strikes me as a passionate, dedicated fan who has become frustrated and posts to vent that frustration at times. Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen him violate forum rules. The other member who got banned DID violate forum rules, and his membership on The Mesa was terminated as a result. This is why people bitch about the mods. You actually think and took the time to write these words. If you think this, I don't know what to tell you. You're either not paying attention or you're incredibly dense (note, I'm not literally saying you're dense, I'm creating a condition in which you are so I'm technically not breaking a rule in the sense that NCM doesn't technically break rules). NCM has changed his narrative since the bball team has been bad this year to complaining about the team itself, but the reason people got so frustrated with him in the first place was not because he was negative about the team, but rather because he blamed the team's lack of "success" (I put that in quotes because the basketball team has in reality been incredibly successful and the football team has had a very nice run) on fans being positive about what they have accomplished to date. He says by being happy about a Sweet Sixteen we are making the team worse because that shows we are satisfied with not making an Elite Eight. This is why San Diego teams don't win championships, he says. Lack of fan passion. Never mind teams like the Miami Marlins have won World Series and teams like the Cleveland Indians (by all accounts a "true fan" city) have gone 60 years without a title. He is so obviously trolling that the fact that you think he isn't is a little scary.
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