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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 7:39:35 GMT -8
And I disagree with your take on NCM. He strikes me as a passionate, dedicated fan who has become frustrated and posts to vent that frustration at times. Maybe I've missed something, but I haven't seen him violate forum rules. The other member who got banned DID violate forum rules, and his membership on The Mesa was terminated as a result. This is why people bitch about the mods. You actually think and took the time to write these words. If you think this, I don't know what to tell you. You're either not paying attention or you're incredibly dense (note, I'm not literally saying you're dense, I'm creating a condition in which you are so I'm technically not breaking a rule in the sense that NCM doesn't technically break rules). NCM has changed his narrative since the bball team has been bad this year to complaining about the team itself, but the reason people got so frustrated with him in the first place was not because he was negative about the team, but rather because he blamed the team's lack of "success" (I put that in quotes because the basketball team has in reality been incredibly successful and the football team has had a very nice run) on fans being positive about what they have accomplished to date. He says by being happy about a Sweet Sixteen we are making the team worse because that shows we are satisfied with not making an Elite Eight. This is why San Diego teams don't win championships, he says. Lack of fan passion. Never mind teams like the Miami Marlins have won World Series and teams like the Cleveland Indians (by all accounts a "true fan" city) have gone 60 years without a title. He is so obviously trolling that the fact that you think he isn't is a little scary. So what I'm reading there is that you don't agree with his opinions and you don't like his opinions, therefore you don't want him to have the right to express his opinions - and I correct in that assessment? What exactly, within the rules, would you suggest we do to remedy the situation?
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 7:50:14 GMT -8
So now the answer is - within the exact wording of the rules, mods are neutered when it comes to cleaning out the riffraff.
YOU MAKE THE RULES
good god it isn't that hard.
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Post by mnico213 on Mar 13, 2017 7:50:30 GMT -8
This is why people bitch about the mods. You actually think and took the time to write these words. If you think this, I don't know what to tell you. You're either not paying attention or you're incredibly dense (note, I'm not literally saying you're dense, I'm creating a condition in which you are so I'm technically not breaking a rule in the sense that NCM doesn't technically break rules). NCM has changed his narrative since the bball team has been bad this year to complaining about the team itself, but the reason people got so frustrated with him in the first place was not because he was negative about the team, but rather because he blamed the team's lack of "success" (I put that in quotes because the basketball team has in reality been incredibly successful and the football team has had a very nice run) on fans being positive about what they have accomplished to date. He says by being happy about a Sweet Sixteen we are making the team worse because that shows we are satisfied with not making an Elite Eight. This is why San Diego teams don't win championships, he says. Lack of fan passion. Never mind teams like the Miami Marlins have won World Series and teams like the Cleveland Indians (by all accounts a "true fan" city) have gone 60 years without a title. He is so obviously trolling that the fact that you think he isn't is a little scary. So what I'm reading there is that you don't agree with his opinions and you don't like his opinions, therefore you don't want him to have the right to express his opinions - and I correct in that assessment? What exactly, within the rules, would you suggest we do to remedy the situation? And you correct? No, you're not correct since that isn't what I said. I was addressing the fact that you think he's just a misunderstood fan. I never said he should be banned for having an opinion. But I also don't think he has that opinion. Because his opinion is completely illogical and is so obviously an attempt to get a rise out of people. And I never said he was breaking rules, but since you asked: *Stirring up trouble by posting a topic with the sole intent of getting a negative reaction is also against forum rules. We don't want 12 page flame wars. Don't start them."
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 7:52:35 GMT -8
An easy way to address some of this would be a one thread creation per day rule, and something like 3-5 max thread creations per week.
In addition to "likes", I believe there is also an option for "groans" or thumbs down or something similar.
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Post by alohaboarder on Mar 13, 2017 7:56:03 GMT -8
An easy way to address some of this would be a one thread creation per day rule, and something like 3-5 max thread creations per week. In addition to "likes", I believe there is also an option for "groans" or thumbs down or something similar. Neil Gorsuch is that you?
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 7:58:34 GMT -8
An easy way to address some of this would be a one thread creation per day rule, and something like 3-5 max thread creations per week. In addition to "likes", I believe there is also an option for "groans" or thumbs down or something similar. Neil Gorsuch is that you? I wish you were funnier with your attempts? I dunno, this is like three misses for you in a row. Try harder.
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Post by ab on Mar 13, 2017 7:59:07 GMT -8
Trolls are taking over this site. I see fewer fans posting and more trolls posting. I know real fans that find this site a waste of time. There is less and less sharing of information, but more and more posts that are opionion based rants. You bring up a long lasting debate as to the purpose of boards like this. Some come for facts and reading/sharing articles and others come to post and read others opinions like them or not. There is no right answer apparently. How do you define a troll? Referring to others as trolls in itself is breaking the rules of the board. No name calling.
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Mar 13, 2017 8:01:22 GMT -8
I have seen zero evidence that the likes of Ctap13 and NCM fit that description. It is also a stupid, intellectually dishonest straw man. No one is claiming that differing opinions shouldn't be tolerated. Posters also have no choice in the matter. Tolerance is mere acquiescence in existence. It doesn't mean agreement, it doesn't mean respect. However. I am completely unsurprised by this. Emotionally infantile whiners play the persecution card, responsible adults inform and defend their opinions. Infantile is an appropriate term for Ctap13. Or maybe prepubescent, which befits the 13. I'm not here enough to even recognize NCM but assume his approach to posting is similar. When I read Ctap's stuff I'm reminded of "Told ya, Bennie!" from the Sandlot which our son just loved. The mindset is the same in being closed off to the possibility that anybody else with a different opinion could possibly be correct. Of course, it turned out Bennie WAS correct.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:05:15 GMT -8
So what I'm reading there is that you don't agree with his opinions and you don't like his opinions, therefore you don't want him to have the right to express his opinions - and I correct in that assessment? What exactly, within the rules, would you suggest we do to remedy the situation? And you correct? No, you're not correct since that isn't what I said. I was addressing the fact that you think he's just a misunderstood fan. I never said he should be banned for having an opinion. But I also don't think he has that opinion. Because his opinion is completely illogical and is so obviously an attempt to get a rise out of people. And I never said he was breaking rules, but since you asked: *Stirring up trouble by posting a topic with the sole intent of getting a negative reaction is also against forum rules. We don't want 12 page flame wars. Don't start them." Give me an example of a post he's made that breaks that rule and I'll review it. Hell, I may agree with you and take action on it! But until someone PM's us (the mod staff) with a link to an offending post we probably won't see it since there are literally hundreds of posts made every day and as a staff we may read a third of them. Just because you think a post is illogical doesn't mean the person posting it thinks it's illogical. You're not a mind reader and neither am I. Intent is a damned hard thing to prove. What would you have us do? I'm not seeing ANY solutions suggested, just complaints posted.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:07:09 GMT -8
An easy way to address some of this would be a one thread creation per day rule, and something like 3-5 max thread creations per week. In addition to "likes", I believe there is also an option for "groans" or thumbs down or something similar. Neither of those things are options under the Proboards system.
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 13, 2017 8:07:15 GMT -8
This is why people bitch about the mods. You actually think and took the time to write these words. If you think this, I don't know what to tell you. You're either not paying attention or you're incredibly dense (note, I'm not literally saying you're dense, I'm creating a condition in which you are so I'm technically not breaking a rule in the sense that NCM doesn't technically break rules). NCM has changed his narrative since the bball team has been bad this year to complaining about the team itself, but the reason people got so frustrated with him in the first place was not because he was negative about the team, but rather because he blamed the team's lack of "success" (I put that in quotes because the basketball team has in reality been incredibly successful and the football team has had a very nice run) on fans being positive about what they have accomplished to date. He says by being happy about a Sweet Sixteen we are making the team worse because that shows we are satisfied with not making an Elite Eight. This is why San Diego teams don't win championships, he says. Lack of fan passion. Never mind teams like the Miami Marlins have won World Series and teams like the Cleveland Indians (by all accounts a "true fan" city) have gone 60 years without a title. He is so obviously trolling that the fact that you think he isn't is a little scary. So what I'm reading there is that you don't agree with his opinions and you don't like his opinions, therefore you don't want him to have the right to express his opinions - and I correct in that assessment? What exactly, within the rules, would you suggest we do to remedy the situation? NCM, amongst the obvious others, will post things that are such an obvious attempt at getting a rise out of people, I don't know how you can miss it. He tries to toe the line so he doesn't get banned, because he gets off on trolling. He knows what he's doing. The most obvious way that you can tell he's a troll, is the fact that whenever something good happens to the team, he's no where in sight. Like all the other cockroach trolls, he only typically comes out during the bad. I hope this helps.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:09:00 GMT -8
So what I'm reading there is that you don't agree with his opinions and you don't like his opinions, therefore you don't want him to have the right to express his opinions - and I correct in that assessment? What exactly, within the rules, would you suggest we do to remedy the situation? NCM, amongst the obvious others, will post things that are such an obvious attempt at getting a rise out of people, I don't know how you can miss it. He tries to toe the line so he doesn't get banned, because he gets off on trolling. He knows what he's doing. The most obvious way that you can tell he's a troll, is the fact that whenever something good happens to the team, he's no where in sight. Like all the other cockroach trolls, he only typically comes out during the bad. I hope this helps. So, again, within the rules and within the idea that people are free to post their opinions, what do we do about it? Just like a cop can't arrest someone for being a jerk we can't ban someone for posting unpopular opinions.
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 13, 2017 8:15:07 GMT -8
NCM, amongst the obvious others, will post things that are such an obvious attempt at getting a rise out of people, I don't know how you can miss it. He tries to toe the line so he doesn't get banned, because he gets off on trolling. He knows what he's doing. The most obvious way that you can tell he's a troll, is the fact that whenever something good happens to the team, he's no where in sight. Like all the other cockroach trolls, he only typically comes out during the bad. I hope this helps. So, again, within the rules and within the idea that people are free to post their opinions, what do we do about it? Just like a cop can't arrest someone for being a jerk we can't ban someone for posting unpopular opinions. I understand that it's part of the landscape, unfortunately, to deal with trolls on a message board.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 8:24:37 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES.
You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board.
It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind.
I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses.
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Post by mnico213 on Mar 13, 2017 8:28:47 GMT -8
And you correct? No, you're not correct since that isn't what I said. I was addressing the fact that you think he's just a misunderstood fan. I never said he should be banned for having an opinion. But I also don't think he has that opinion. Because his opinion is completely illogical and is so obviously an attempt to get a rise out of people. And I never said he was breaking rules, but since you asked: *Stirring up trouble by posting a topic with the sole intent of getting a negative reaction is also against forum rules. We don't want 12 page flame wars. Don't start them." Give me an example of a post he's made that breaks that rule and I'll review it. Hell, I may agree with you and take action on it! But until someone PM's us (the mod staff) with a link to an offending post we probably won't see it since there are literally hundreds of posts made every day and as a staff we may read a third of them. Just because you think a post is illogical doesn't mean the person posting it thinks it's illogical. You're not a mind reader and neither am I. Intent is a damned hard thing to prove. What would you have us do? I'm not seeing ANY solutions suggested, just complaints posted. Honestly, I am just responding to a topic about whether or not trolls are ruining the site. I don't think they ruin it, but they certainly make it worse. If you think NCM is just a guy who has an unpopular opinion, me sending you posts isn't going to change your mind. That's your job anyways. You say "I'm not seeing any solutions suggested, just complaints posted." You're the moderator. It's your job to address complaints. It's your job to come up with solutions. I honestly don't care if you're going to keep doing nothing, but don't cry about it when people complain.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 8:29:53 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES. You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board. It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind. I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses. So are you just going to post a bunch of bitching and whining and complaining, or are you going to post some ideas for constructive solutions? Just saying, "There's a problem - FIX IT," isn't constructive. We don't want to clamp down on discussion. We want people to be free to post their HONEST opinions. We are NOT mind readers, and it would not be legitimate to pretend to be able to know intent without a pattern of behavior to back it up. Personally, I have not read any posts from NCM that cross the line from honest, but negative and critical, opinion to trolling. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but since I've usually only got about a half hour a day to read stuff on The Mesa I miss a majority of what's posted here. If you read a post that you think is trolling SEND US A PM WITH A LINK TO THAT POST! Don't just bitch about it a week later and ass/u/me that we read it, too.
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Post by hoobs on Mar 13, 2017 8:30:21 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES. You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board. It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind. I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses. +1, but for... don't insult snowflakes by comparing them to the 'owners'/mods here.
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 13, 2017 8:31:59 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES. You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board. It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind. I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses. Well said. Now that I think about it, I can remember in the past trolls being run for being trolls. Not any more.
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Post by hoobs on Mar 13, 2017 8:32:28 GMT -8
So are you just going to post a bunch of bitching and whining and complaining, or are you going to post some ideas for constructive solutions? I thought you said all opinions were welcome and valid here?
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Post by hoobs on Mar 13, 2017 8:34:10 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES. You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board. It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind. I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses. Well said. Now that I think about it, I can remember in the past trolls being run for being trolls. Not any more. That was indeed the case on predecessor(s) Aztec boards. Different 'owner'/mods, obviously.
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