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Post by k5james on Sept 28, 2012 7:05:25 GMT -8
What's the BL gonna do about the other five programs with the same problem? I would assume that most of the new members have performance clauses in the agreement. No.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 28, 2012 7:28:52 GMT -8
William, It's a good thought but banning new FB coaching threads will not solve the issue. The problem is that a few select posters have to say the same thing over and over and over and over again... and it has become really tiresome. It really makes it difficult to make the decision to visit this site. A few of them claim they are the 'real' fans because they know what is best for the program and they know that complacency is the real issue here at SDSU. And they are going to solve that problem by complaining on a message board. Unfortunately, the majority of these posters would rather the coach fail so that they can complain about him. This way they can be heard on this message board which is their main source of social interaction. They want to be validated in life and the consistent hammering on a particular topic is how they feel important. The amazing thing at least for me is that the more they harp on the coach, the more I feel I should support him. The solution to the problem is not banning the threads or even the poster but somehow working an ignore function into the board. Unfortunately, I guess that is not an option with proboards. For me, the truth is, I was never super excited about the hiring of RL but felt it was a good thing since hiring him seemed to avoid the total upheaval of the program. Maybe give him a couple years to see what he could do. I figured it might not turn out great but was probably the best choice at the time. After last Saturday's game I left thinking... damn, will this ever turn around for SDSU? It seems to always be the same thing, year in and year out, no matter who the coach is. And when I say that I am including Hoke because the truth is his teams never beat anyone meaningful either... in fact, he had the same type of losses we have had since Gilbert was fired... the standard 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory' which is so common place at SDSU. I don't have a clue what the answer is for turning around this program but I am not sure firing the coach and hiring another will actually solve it. Perhaps SDSU is simply destined to have an average football program because they have never been part of the elite class and never will be allowed to be. I guess they are destined to be also rans until such time as they can find that once in a lifetime coach who is a Coryell or a Fisher... perhaps I should be happy that I have been around during both of those individuals time at SDSU. My guess is finding yet another may (will/ is) not be easy. But I guarantee that me (or anyone else) posting the same thought over and over and over again on this or any other message board will not solve the issue at SDSU. (btw, there is one poster who is vehemently against RL who I am not referring to here and that is Monty. I get from his posts that he genuinely wants SDSU to succeed and if they did under RL he would be overjoyed. I cannot say the same for some of the other posters who harp on RL.) Well said! Rocky Long may not be the answer for Aztec football, but the knee-jerk reaction to one unexpected (and, I admit, more or less inexcusable) loss is a warning sign, not reason to panic. The Aztecs have 8 more games to play, and I see only one of those 8 as pretty much a sure loss. (Though a true fan can always hope!) I am not willing to bet money on the possibility of our winning 6 of those 8, but neither do I think such an outcome is beyond reach. Anyway, I see the UNLV, CSU, Hawaii, Air Force, and Wyoming games as winnable. If we prevail in those contests, the 2012 Aztec team will end the regular season 7-5, meaning the first time the program would have enjoyed three consecutive winning seasons since the mid-1970s! Furthermore, Fresno State and Nevada may be good, and away games at that, but the Bullldogs and Wolfpack are not in the same class as Boise State. Bottom line; why are we giving up on this season so soon? Even a loss to Fresno State does not doom the team to .500 or worse. It will be the progress the team makes over the whole season that counts. We know that our D-line is not too big and lacks experience. That area worries me most, since even an average QB is going to complete passes if he is never pressured. Let's calm down and see how the team progresses. In any case, I think it is very, very unlikely that Rocky Long will not be our HC in 2013. And, as I have posted before, there are some delusional fans here who think getting rid of RL means we will be able to go out and hire some super head coach with a nationally known name. Sorry, that's very unlikely to happen. Patience, my friends, patience. I'm not suggesting that we wait three or four more years. I am suggesting that a third of the way through his second season, Chuck Long had won FOUR games. A third of the way through his second season, Rocky Long has won TEN! A bit different, don't you think? AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 28, 2012 7:48:43 GMT -8
As for attendance, nothing short of 50-0 wins in every game (and perhaps not even that) would put 50,000 to 60,000 fans in the seats. It will take a decade of winning (and winning bowl games most years) to increase Aztec attendance to the 50,000 or more on average. We had our chance to dominate this town but we blew it starting with Claude Gilbert's firing.
Hell, we haven't been able to match even Southern Mississippi's success over the past three decades, and Southern Mississippi has to fight for attention in a medium-sized state that is the home of two of the most prestigious college football programs in the country!
AzWm
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 8:09:51 GMT -8
I see the UNLV, CSU, Hawaii, Air Force, and Wyoming games as winnable. If we prevail in those contests, the 2012 Aztec team will end the regular season 7-5, meaning the first time the program would have enjoyed three consecutive winning seasons since the mid-1970s! Furthermore, Fresno State and Nevada may be good, and away games at that, but the Bullldogs and Wolfpack are not in the same class as Boise State. Bottom line; why are we giving up on this season so soon? Even a loss to Fresno State does not doom the team to .500 or worse. It will be the progress the team makes over the whole season that counts. We know that our D-line is not too big and lacks experience. That area worries me most, since even an average QB is going to complete passes if he is never pressured. Let's calm down and see how the team progresses. In any case, I think it is very, very unlikely that Rocky Long will not be our HC in 2013. And, as I have posted before, there are some delusional fans here who think getting rid of RL means we will be able to go out and hire some super head coach with a nationally known name. Sorry, that's very unlikely to happen. Patience, my friends, patience. I'm not suggesting that we wait three or four more years. I am suggesting that a third of the way through his second season, Chuck Long had won FOUR games. A third of the way through his second season, Rocky Long has won TEN! A bit different, don't you think? We had winning seasons in 1989-1991, William. I haven't given up on this season. However, I already pointed out on another thread how a season and a half of improvement has now been followed by nearly a season and a half of what has generally been regression. And you can say I'm a pessimist but the atmosphere at Qualcomm Stadium for the SJSU game sure suggests my concerns about the teams are shared by others. Finally, I don't think SDSU will ever fire Rocky. Instead, he will quit. Either at the top of his game or, as with UNM, following a very disappointing season. BTW, I don't think it will be this one. In fact, the more I think about it, IF we start the game better than we did last year against Fresno, I think we're going to win on Saturday.
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Post by sdfootballfan on Sept 28, 2012 8:10:38 GMT -8
Don't give up on so early. There's plenty of football to be played and a conference title still up for grabs.
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Post by germanaztec on Sept 28, 2012 8:10:46 GMT -8
Rocky certainly isn't getting fired during the season no matter what and I very much doubt he gets fired after the season either. That said, losing at home to San Jose State? Disgusting and unacceptable, watching our defense crumble on SJSU's last drive was especially depressing and brought back some bad football memories from season's past. I think it is obvious Rocky isn't the right man for the job but expectations are so low in the athletic department for the program that he will not get blown out, even though frankly he probably deserves to. I honestly don't know how you get the impression that expectations in the athlectiv department are so low that he won't get fired?!? Please explain! We just had our first two bowl seasons in forever years and the first thing you want to do is to fire the head coach, because he is not going 13-0 and winning the national championship. Perhaps some people on this board need a reality check and should start thinking before they post anything. Unfortunately, there is no button for this ...
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Post by Boise Aztec on Sept 28, 2012 8:32:09 GMT -8
It has nothing to do wih a loss to SJSU, I knew they were a good team. It has nothing to do with a close game against UND. I hope we win every game and we find out that Rocky is our Chris Peterson following Brady like Chris did to Hawkins...
Having said that, I don't think it will happen. I look at his career, his results at SDSU and his potential and I think we will eventually need another coach to do what BSU has done...
I don't dislike the man, I am not calling for him to be fired now, I don't think he should be fired based on his results, just saying what I see, eventually, happening...
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 28, 2012 8:46:59 GMT -8
I see the UNLV, CSU, Hawaii, Air Force, and Wyoming games as winnable. If we prevail in those contests, the 2012 Aztec team will end the regular season 7-5, meaning the first time the program would have enjoyed three consecutive winning seasons since the mid-1970s! Furthermore, Fresno State and Nevada may be good, and away games at that, but the Bullldogs and Wolfpack are not in the same class as Boise State. Bottom line; why are we giving up on this season so soon? Even a loss to Fresno State does not doom the team to .500 or worse. It will be the progress the team makes over the whole season that counts. We know that our D-line is not too big and lacks experience. That area worries me most, since even an average QB is going to complete passes if he is never pressured. Let's calm down and see how the team progresses. In any case, I think it is very, very unlikely that Rocky Long will not be our HC in 2013. And, as I have posted before, there are some delusional fans here who think getting rid of RL means we will be able to go out and hire some super head coach with a nationally known name. Sorry, that's very unlikely to happen. Patience, my friends, patience. I'm not suggesting that we wait three or four more years. I am suggesting that a third of the way through his second season, Chuck Long had won FOUR games. A third of the way through his second season, Rocky Long has won TEN! A bit different, don't you think? We had winning seasons in 1989-1991, William. I haven't given up on this season. However, I already pointed out on another thread how a season and a half of improvement has now been followed by nearly a season and a half of what has generally been regression. And you can say I'm a pessimist but the atmosphere at Qualcomm Stadium for the SJSU game sure suggests my concerns about the teams are shared by others. Finally, I don't think SDSU will ever fire Rocky. Instead, he will quit. Either at the top of his game or, as with UNM, following a very disappointing season. BTW, I don't think it will be this one. In fact, the more I think about it, IF we start the game better than we did last year against Fresno, I think we're going to win on Saturday. Ouch! You are correct, we had those three seasons and then, when Lugie could not figure out that he needed a few DC rather than a new OC, we wasted our greatest opportunity to gain national respect. I refer, of course, to Marshall Faulk. And I'm glad you have not given up on 2012. Too bad some other fans have. AzWm
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Post by uncledougy on Sept 28, 2012 8:51:25 GMT -8
I understand the rah-rah, let's rally around the coach thing. It makes sense, as a fan you have to find the best in everything and support the team whoever is leading it. Fact is, Rocky was a safe hire at the time. It made complete sense. Given the timetables in play at the time it might have been negligent to not promote Rocky.
As time goes on, we have to say "is this hire the best for the long term"? I don't think it is. Why couldn't we just move Rocky back to DC and find a firey head coach (like Hoke) to get the the team into the rankings? As it stands now, the feeling for me is how long can the program hold on, and not how long until we crack the top 20.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 28, 2012 9:27:41 GMT -8
I understand the rah-rah, let's rally around the coach thing. It makes sense, as a fan you have to find the best in everything and support the team whoever is leading it. Fact is, Rocky was a safe hire at the time. It made complete sense. Given the timetables in play at the time it might have been negligent to not promote Rocky. As time goes on, we have to say "is this hire the best for the long term"? I don't think it is. Why couldn't we just move Rocky back to DC and find a firey head coach (like Hoke) to get the the team into the rankings? As it stands now, the feeling for me is how long can the program hold on, and not how long until we crack the top 20. I feel rather certain that Rocky would never take a demotion. As for replacing Rocky, we must ask ourselves whom we could hire. I am opposed to hiring a coach with no HC experience, and I am talking about successful experience. It would only make sense to hire someone with a national reputation. But that won't be easy; for one thing, unlike some other years, there may not be many such men at liberty. Also, despite the feeling of some that BE membership will have us rolling in dough, we may not be able to pay the million or million and a half a year that such a highly prized hire would require. Again I say, pray for success with the guy we have. Otherwise we are venturing into treacherous territory. AzWm
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Post by Boise Aztec on Sept 28, 2012 13:01:49 GMT -8
Rocky Long (AP Photo) 88. Rocky Long, San Diego State Age: 62 2011 record: 8-5, 4-3 MWC At San Diego State (1 year): 8-5 FBS career (12 years): 73-74 The high point of Long’s career came from 2002-04, when his New Mexico teams finished in second place at 5-2 in the MWC three consecutive seasons. That was back when Urban Meyer and Utah ruled the roost, so second place was really good. But Long has yet to have a true breakthrough season in his career; he has reached nine wins only once. Will he be the right coach to lead the Aztecs into the Big East in 2013? aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-05-09/college-football-coach-rankings-terry-bowden-hugh-freeze-larry-cokerNumber 88 in the country and number 6 in the MWC, is not great, it would seem that others think there might be a lot of folks that we could get...
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Post by insider on Sept 28, 2012 13:28:46 GMT -8
I understand the rah-rah, let's rally around the coach thing. It makes sense, as a fan you have to find the best in everything and support the team whoever is leading it. Fact is, Rocky was a safe hire at the time. It made complete sense. Given the timetables in play at the time it might have been negligent to not promote Rocky. As time goes on, we have to say "is this hire the best for the long term"? I don't think it is. Why couldn't we just move Rocky back to DC and find a firey head coach (like Hoke) to get the the team into the rankings? As it stands now, the feeling for me is how long can the program hold on, and not how long until we crack the top 20. I feel rather certain that Rocky would never take a demotion. As for replacing Rocky, we must ask ourselves whom we could hire. I am opposed to hiring a coach with no HC experience, and I am talking about successful experience. It would only make sense to hire someone with a national reputation. But that won't be easy; for one thing, unlike some other years, there may not be many such men at liberty. Also, despite the feeling of some that BE membership will have us rolling in dough, we may not be able to pay the million or million and a half a year that such a highly prized hire would require. Again I say, pray for success with the guy we have. Otherwise we are venturing into treacherous territory. AzWm Gary Anderson and Terry Bowden, and there are plenty of coaches with no head coach experience i would take over Rocky. Kirby Smart, Todd Grantham, John Chavis, Bryan Harsin,Nick Aliotti would all be terrific choices and better than Rocky. You seem scared of the unknown to me it seems there is zero evidence to suggest that Rocky will get this program where it needs to be (consistant top 25 teams and competing with everyone but the top 10 in country),under Rocky Long the upside is what we have right now, which isn't good, it is mediocrity. The downside is what we saw at the end of his tenure at UNM and leaving the cupboard completley bare. And why does it need to be hiring a head coach with a successful experience? When Rocky Long was hired with a under 500 record?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 13:30:03 GMT -8
When the Sporting News article first came out, I thought Rocky was ridiculously underrated. Now I'm not so sure. Certainly MacIntyre, Lembo, Flood and Berry have done a considerably better job through the first third of the 2012 season. Not that I'd want Berry. Mark my words. He's been as lucky as lucky can get to this point with managing to face three AQ conference opponents during down years for them.
Edit: Sorry, insider, but we should play Nancy Reagan and Just Say No to anybody without head coaching experience.
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Post by justafan on Sept 28, 2012 14:01:20 GMT -8
At the risk of repeating the same thing over and over (like these threads on firing a head coach) make the topic a sub-board like recruiting. Call it "Fire the Coach, yes or no".
When they appear on the main board, just move them to the sub-board, like is done with other "off topic" threads.
That way people who want to find all of them in one place won't have to search all over the board for them. They will know where to go if they want to find out why a certain coach sucks.
It will certainly keep someone from inadvertently posting information on the subject that has already been shared with the whole board (the reason that was given for moving the recruiting stuff to a sub-board).
What do you think?
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Post by ron on Sept 28, 2012 15:17:56 GMT -8
I don't post much anymore, I've just kind of lost the desire to read the crap most of the posters spew. It's the same thing over and over. Fire this coach or that coach. "Fire Fisher now" was a big one for awhile. Everyone's an expert on these boards and wants someone fired when they lose some games. So, Rock took this team to more wins than any other first year HC and was a bad call (and a bad PK) away from a bowl win. Now, we start out 2-2 and he has to go. Yeah, that sends a message to prospective coaches. You get a year to win and then you'd better not get to .500 or you'll get canned too. This team is a pass rusher or two from being very good. Whether or not you want to admit it that's the truth. Problem is good DL guys are hard to come by. So, if that makes Rocky a bad coach then I guess he should go. You can scheme all you want but you have to have the players. Our DL is too young and inexperienced at this point, just like Rocky said coming into the year. I'd like to give him a chance to get some guys developed and improving, but maybe I'm the minority again.
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Post by aztech on Sept 28, 2012 16:45:40 GMT -8
I don't post much anymore, I've just kind of lost the desire to read the crap most of the posters spew. It's the same thing over and over. Fire this coach or that coach. "Fire Fisher now" was a big one for awhile. Everyone's an expert on these boards and wants someone fired when they lose some games. So, Rock took this team to more wins than any other first year HC and was a bad call (and a bad PK) away from a bowl win. Now, we start out 2-2 and he has to go. Yeah, that sends a message to prospective coaches. You get a year to win and then you'd better not get to .500 or you'll get canned too. This team is a pass rusher or two from being very good. Whether or not you want to admit it that's the truth. Problem is good DL guys are hard to come by. So, if that makes Rocky a bad coach then I guess he should go. You can scheme all you want but you have to have the players. Our DL is too young and inexperienced at this point, just like Rocky said coming into the year. I'd like to give him a chance to get some guys developed and improving, but maybe I'm the minority again. He said the exact same thing last year, yet we won 8 games. I guess we'll have gotten even younger if we don't win as many games this year. With an easier schedule to boot.
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Post by darksidereturns on Sept 28, 2012 17:20:32 GMT -8
Is it really logical to call for his firing? To be fair, not yet BINGO...this is the point that is missing from the 'fire him now' crowd. JYP, I nominate you POTUP, president of the united pessimists. Please spread the word amongst your faithful.
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Post by smoothcat on Sept 28, 2012 18:24:20 GMT -8
Rocky certainly isn't getting fired during the season no matter what and I very much doubt he gets fired after the season either. That said, losing at home to San Jose State? Disgusting and unacceptable, watching our defense crumble on SJSU's last drive was especially depressing and brought back some bad football memories from season's past. I think it is obvious Rocky isn't the right man for the job but expectations are so low in the athletic department for the program that he will not get blown out, even though frankly he probably deserves to. I honestly don't know how you get the impression that expectations in the athlectiv department are so low that he won't get fired?!? Please explain! We just had our first two bowl seasons in forever years and the first thing you want to do is to fire the head coach, because he is not going 13-0 and winning the national championship. Perhaps some people on this board need a reality check and should start thinking before they post anything. Unfortunately, there is no button for this ... I said he wasn't going to get fired either during the season or after the season. That doesn't make me "need a reality check" or need to "start thinking" before I post as you stated in your post above. As far as expectations for the football program, I think our Athletic Department is realistic, but hopeful of course for improvement. But to build a true college power in football is a different animal than doing so in basketball. Right now, SDSU is a basketball school and I for one don't mind that. Rocky Long is OK, but do you see him leading us to the top of the Big East Conference? Really? Try and improve the content of your stuff before you try and call me out.
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Post by myownwords on Sept 28, 2012 19:15:55 GMT -8
I don't post much anymore, I've just kind of lost the desire to read the crap most of the posters spew. It's the same thing over and over. Fire this coach or that coach. "Fire Fisher now" was a big one for awhile. I don't remember anyone (including "plateauers" like me) calling for Fish to be fired. With Rocky, it's NOT that he's 2-2. ---It's a matter of a guy who's trying to reinvent the game of football. The 3-3-5 is (in my opinion) nuts in an era when the front seven is everything. The "go-for-two" charts defy comment so I don't think I need to go there. ---It's a matter of a "defensive mastermind" who can't stop North Dakota in the fourth year under his stewardship. Our redshirt freshmen should be able to give North Dakota a good game. ---It's a matter of a guy who has been associated with losing for the vast majority of his coaching career (and if you subtract SDSU from his UNM tenure it looks even worse). Are there things I like about him? Yes, a few. Is it really logical to call for his firing? To be fair, not yet, but it's getting to the point where 8 wins against this faux "DI" schedule is gonna be impossible. Will he be fired? Knowing what we know about Sterk's tenure at WSU, hell no. So I guess we should just watch and try to enjoy this year and next. ---It's a matter of a guy who seems (and I admit that "seems" is a hazy verb) to always be preparing everyone for losses instead of having the deep belief that HE is a winner, that HE will succeed. Eloquent, JohnYP
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Post by ron on Sept 29, 2012 2:17:05 GMT -8
I don't post much anymore, I've just kind of lost the desire to read the crap most of the posters spew. It's the same thing over and over. Fire this coach or that coach. "Fire Fisher now" was a big one for awhile. I don't remember anyone (including "plateauers" like me) calling for Fish to be fired. With Rocky, it's NOT that he's 2-2. ---It's a matter of a guy who's trying to reinvent the game of football. The 3-3-5 is (in my opinion) nuts in an era when the front seven is everything. The "go-for-two" charts defy comment so I don't think I need to go there. ---It's a matter of a "defensive mastermind" who can't stop North Dakota in the fourth year under his stewardship. Our redshirt freshmen should be able to give North Dakota a good game. ---It's a matter of a guy who has been associated with losing for the vast majority of his coaching career (and if you subtract SDSU from his UNM tenure it looks even worse). Are there things I like about him? Yes, a few. Is it really logical to call for his firing? To be fair, not yet, but it's getting to the point where 8 wins against this faux "DI" schedule is gonna be impossible. Will he be fired? Knowing what we know about Sterk's tenure at WSU, hell no. So I guess we should just watch and try to enjoy this year and next. ---It's a matter of a guy who seems (and I admit that "seems" is a hazy verb) to always be preparing everyone for losses instead of having the deep belief that HE is a winner, that HE will succeed. You have a selective memory. There were numerous Fire Fish Now type threads. Whether or not you were one of them doesn't matter to me. Rock isn't reinventing anything. As has been explained many times he's using a system that relies more on athletes (which are more obtainable) than it does the big DL types (which this school has traditionally had trouble getting. It can be ran as a 3-4 or a 4-3 depending on how they line up. The "chart" simply gives the other HC something to be concerned with. Again, to make things more unpredictable. New Mexico was going to bowl games while SDSU was going to the toilet bowl. If that's a loser then we have different definitions. Like I said, this team is a couple of pass rushers away from being very good. Unfortunately, the last time we had a true pass rusher from the DL was Kabeer. My hope is that guys we have continue to improve and manage at least some pressure.
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