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Post by johneaztec on Oct 4, 2023 15:43:27 GMT -8
Come on. That's not news. He's not going to throw his Manager under the bus after they just had that meeting. It was enough news that a reporter who covers the team commented on it and followed that up with more commentary. This is what Preller's talking about. Overblown issues. That's what I'm saying as well. His comment was appropriate. Some writers have a knack for making something out of nothing, or just the need to write something.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 15:54:35 GMT -8
It was enough news that a reporter who covers the team commented on it and followed that up with more commentary. This is what Preller's talking about. Overblown issues. That's what I'm saying as well. His comment was appropriate. Some writers have a knack for making something out of nothing, or just the need to write something. Or maybe your speculation is wrong. I think I'll side with Annie here, personally, given the facts.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 4, 2023 18:42:28 GMT -8
This is what Preller's talking about. Overblown issues. That's what I'm saying as well. His comment was appropriate. Some writers have a knack for making something out of nothing, or just the need to write something. Or maybe your speculation is wrong. I think I'll side with Annie here, personally, given the facts. Yeah, it's ALL speculation, but it can be overblown speculation. We'll see.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 18:59:09 GMT -8
Or maybe your speculation is wrong. I think I'll side with Annie here, personally, given the facts. Yeah, it's ALL speculation, but it can be overblown speculation. We'll see. It's not all speculation when you cover the team for a living, nor is it speculation about Melvin not having a contract beyond this year and being courted by the Giants.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 4, 2023 19:41:10 GMT -8
Uh huh. That's what I thought. Don't ever disagree with Ryan. He knows it all. Lol. When the analysis is repetitive, rudimentary and limited? Yes. "Strikeout machine" isn't an evaluative tool, it's an anecdotal observation that is largely worthless. Regression? Strikeout rate declined slightly, ISO was nearly the same, WOBA went up, best walk rate of his career, hard hit jumped almost 5%. As I've said before numerous times, if you can get him back to a baseline of around 100 wRC+, he's fine. You're not going to do markedly better at the position given the contract he makes and the lack of depth at the position. You talk about how his numbers went up. Went up from what? He's been HORRIBLE at the plate with RISP. That's a VERY important stat. Striking out a lot is also an important stat. You want to put the ball in play as often as possible, and he's been absolutely horrible at that. You can try and justify him not being that bad, but it ain't working.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 19:57:09 GMT -8
When the analysis is repetitive, rudimentary and limited? Yes. "Strikeout machine" isn't an evaluative tool, it's an anecdotal observation that is largely worthless. Regression? Strikeout rate declined slightly, ISO was nearly the same, WOBA went up, best walk rate of his career, hard hit jumped almost 5%. As I've said before numerous times, if you can get him back to a baseline of around 100 wRC+, he's fine. You're not going to do markedly better at the position given the contract he makes and the lack of depth at the position. You talk about how his numbers went up. Went up from what? He's been HORRIBLE at the plate with RISP. That's a VERY important stat. Striking out a lot is also an important stat. You want to put the ball in play as often as possible, and he's been absolutely horrible at that. You can try and justify him not being that bad, but it ain't working. Up from the previous year, the only thing worth directly comparing when you're looking for statistical indicators comprehensively. I don't care about his splits with runners on. In case you missed it, the entire roster was terrible in that regard, which goes back to my advanced scouting notion. When an entire roster of very talented players all simultaneously underperform in the same metric, that's a systemic flaw, mixed in with some variance. Like I said, I don't really care for your rudimentary analysis. You're entitled to your opinion.
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 4, 2023 20:29:07 GMT -8
You talk about how his numbers went up. Went up from what? He's been HORRIBLE at the plate with RISP. That's a VERY important stat. Striking out a lot is also an important stat. You want to put the ball in play as often as possible, and he's been absolutely horrible at that. You can try and justify him not being that bad, but it ain't working. Up from the previous year, the only thing worth directly comparing when you're looking for statistical indicators comprehensively. I don't care about his splits with runners on. In case you missed it, the entire roster was terrible in that regard, which goes back to my advanced scouting notion. When an entire roster of very talented players all simultaneously underperform in the same metric, that's a systemic flaw, mixed in with some variance. Like I said, I don't really care for your rudimentary analysis. You're entitled to your opinion. I agree that everyone underperformed because our advanced scouting was bad. But I still like not starting him everyday. On days where he doesn't start, use him as a pinch runner if you are behind, use him as a defensive replacement for Soto late in the game. We used him like this at the end of the season, and honestly it's an improvement.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 20:34:02 GMT -8
Up from the previous year, the only thing worth directly comparing when you're looking for statistical indicators comprehensively. I don't care about his splits with runners on. In case you missed it, the entire roster was terrible in that regard, which goes back to my advanced scouting notion. When an entire roster of very talented players all simultaneously underperform in the same metric, that's a systemic flaw, mixed in with some variance. Like I said, I don't really care for your rudimentary analysis. You're entitled to your opinion. I agree that everyone underperformed because our advanced scouting was bad. But I still like not starting him everyday. On days where he doesn't start, use him as a pinch runner if you are behind, use him as a defensive replacement for Soto late in the game. We used him like this at the end of the season, and honestly it's an improvement.. It really isn't. Periodically? Sure, just because of the grind of the year. I wouldn't take any small sample size results as anything meaningful when the season was largely over. His expected numbers, although not fantastic, are more than sufficient for the position if you get better coaching and implementation.
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 4, 2023 20:37:01 GMT -8
I agree that everyone underperformed because our advanced scouting was bad. But I still like not starting him everyday. On days where he doesn't start, use him as a pinch runner if you are behind, use him as a defensive replacement for Soto late in the game. We used him like this at the end of the season, and honestly it's an improvement.. It really isn't. I wouldn't take any small sample size results as anything meaningful when the season was largely over. His expected numbers, although not fantastic, are more than sufficient for the position if you get better coaching and implementation. The real "platoon" for a player like Grish is to maximize the amount of time that he is playing defense in the outfield and minimize the amount of time that he is hitting. He's a natural pairing with Soto's amazing offense and bad defense for a defensive substitution with a lead in the 7th or 8th.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 20:38:32 GMT -8
It really isn't. I wouldn't take any small sample size results as anything meaningful when the season was largely over. His expected numbers, although not fantastic, are more than sufficient for the position if you get better coaching and implementation. The real "platoon" for a player like Grish is to maximize the amount of time that he is playing defense in the outfield and minimize the amount of time that he is hitting. He's a natural pairing with Soto's amazing offense and bad defense for a defensive substitution with a lead in the 7th or 8th. That's Azocar's role.
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 4, 2023 20:43:36 GMT -8
The real "platoon" for a player like Grish is to maximize the amount of time that he is playing defense in the outfield and minimize the amount of time that he is hitting. He's a natural pairing with Soto's amazing offense and bad defense for a defensive substitution with a lead in the 7th or 8th. That's Azocar's role. Maybe it's Azocar's role for some number of games next year, and Grisham's role for some number of games. Ideally Grisham starts for 80 games and is a defensive substitution for 40 games. Still leaving plenty of defensive substitution opportunity for Azocar in 40-60 games, depending on how well them team does next year.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 20:45:31 GMT -8
Maybe it's Azocar's role for some number of games next year, and Grisham's role for some number of games. Ideally Grisham starts for 80 games and is a defensive substitution for 40 games. Still leaving plenty of defensive substitution opportunity for Azocar in 40-60 games, depending on how well them team does next year. And who starts the other 80 games? Don't say Tatis. Was/is a stupid idea.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 4, 2023 21:02:24 GMT -8
You talk about how his numbers went up. Went up from what? He's been HORRIBLE at the plate with RISP. That's a VERY important stat. Striking out a lot is also an important stat. You want to put the ball in play as often as possible, and he's been absolutely horrible at that. You can try and justify him not being that bad, but it ain't working. Up from the previous year, the only thing worth directly comparing when you're looking for statistical indicators comprehensively. I don't care about his splits with runners on. In case you missed it, the entire roster was terrible in that regard, which goes back to my advanced scouting notion. When an entire roster of very talented players all simultaneously underperform in the same metric, that's a systemic flaw, mixed in with some variance. Like I said, I don't really care for your rudimentary analysis. You're entitled to your opinion. They're up from his horrible stats last year. That's not saying much. Sheesh. The problem is that it's not just this year. He's got a pattern of being horrible about not putty the ball in play and horrible with RISP. And frankly, I could careless about the excuses you decide to hand out to whoever you want to. They're merely just that, excuses and I guarantee you they would say the same thing to you. You like to go in depth and find excuses for why this player, or that player is not performing. That's not good. Most of the time it's the player himself, especially if it's a pattern of horrible hitting, like in Grishams case.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 21:12:24 GMT -8
Up from the previous year, the only thing worth directly comparing when you're looking for statistical indicators comprehensively. I don't care about his splits with runners on. In case you missed it, the entire roster was terrible in that regard, which goes back to my advanced scouting notion. When an entire roster of very talented players all simultaneously underperform in the same metric, that's a systemic flaw, mixed in with some variance. Like I said, I don't really care for your rudimentary analysis. You're entitled to your opinion. They're up from his horrible stats last year. That's not saying much. Sheesh. The problem is that it's not just this year. He's got a pattern of being horrible about not putty the ball in play and horrible with RISP. And frankly, I could careless about the excuses you decide to hand out to whoever you want to. They're merely just that, excuses and I guarantee you they would say the same thing to you. You like to go in depth and find excuses for why this player, or that player is not performing. That's not good. Most of the time it's the player himself, especially if it's a pattern of horrible hitting, like in Grishams case. As usual, you're wrong. 2022 with RISP: .766 OPS. 2021 with RISP: .828 OPS. Career with RISP: .762 OPS. Career with men on base: .762 OPS. Do you know what a pattern of struggling is? Because that isn't it. I go in depth because your base-level analysis doesn't. Unlike you, I look for reasons *why* and not just the *what* because the *what* includes variables that you never account for, rendering your argument meaningless. If a layperson jumped on here and read your synopsis, they'd assume Grisham strikes out at an absurdly high rate. That's not the case.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 4, 2023 21:40:18 GMT -8
They're up from his horrible stats last year. That's not saying much. Sheesh. The problem is that it's not just this year. He's got a pattern of being horrible about not putty the ball in play and horrible with RISP. And frankly, I could careless about the excuses you decide to hand out to whoever you want to. They're merely just that, excuses and I guarantee you they would say the same thing to you. You like to go in depth and find excuses for why this player, or that player is not performing. That's not good. Most of the time it's the player himself, especially if it's a pattern of horrible hitting, like in Grishams case. As usual, you're wrong. 2022 with RISP: .766 OPS. 2021 with RISP: .828 OPS. Career with RISP: .762 OPS. Career with men on base: .762 OPS. Do you know what a pattern of struggling is? Because that isn't it. I go in depth because your base-level analysis doesn't. Unlike you, I look for reasons *why* and not just the *what* because the *what* includes variables that you never account for, rendering your argument meaningless. If a layperson jumped on here and read your synopsis, they'd assume Grisham strikes out at an absurdly high rate. That's not the case. I'm talking about how often he strikes out with runners in scoring position, only. If you don't put the ball in play with runners on scoring position, then you can't move the runners or drive them in.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 21:53:20 GMT -8
As usual, you're wrong. 2022 with RISP: .766 OPS. 2021 with RISP: .828 OPS. Career with RISP: .762 OPS. Career with men on base: .762 OPS. Do you know what a pattern of struggling is? Because that isn't it. I go in depth because your base-level analysis doesn't. Unlike you, I look for reasons *why* and not just the *what* because the *what* includes variables that you never account for, rendering your argument meaningless. If a layperson jumped on here and read your synopsis, they'd assume Grisham strikes out at an absurdly high rate. That's not the case. I'm talking about how often he strikes out with runners in scoring position, only. If you don't put the ball in play with runners on scoring position, then you can't move the runners or drive them in. Time to backtrack and shift goalposts, I see, as the numbers disprove your assertions. Still wrong, though, unfortunately. Career strikeout rate with runners in scoring position is 23.5%. Career wrC+ is 111. He's been an above average hitter in the RISP metric for his entire career. You know you can look these things up, right? Is it really worth nitpicking a single stat that doesn't erase everything else? I get it, you want to pile on and you're jaded with the frustration of this year. But it's just inaccurate in this case, no matter how you want to dissect it. The obsession with strikeouts is weird. Good players still strike out. The top 30 leaderboard this year is littered with star players: Max Muncy, Julio Rodriguez, Luis Robert, Matt Chapman, Kyle Schwarber, Adolis Garcia, J.T. Realmuto, Gunnar Henderson...list goes on. Out of all those guys, the only players with a higher walk rate than Grisham are Muncy, Schwarber and Jack Suwinski.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 4, 2023 22:18:08 GMT -8
I'm talking about how often he strikes out with runners in scoring position, only. If you don't put the ball in play with runners on scoring position, then you can't move the runners or drive them in. Time to backtrack and shift goalposts, I see, as the numbers disprove your assertions. Still wrong, though, unfortunately. Career strikeout rate with runners in scoring position is 23.5%. Career wrC+ is 111. He's been an above average hitter in the RISP metric for his entire career. You know you can look these things up, right? Is it really worth nitpicking a single stat that doesn't erase everything else? I get it, you want to pile on and you're jaded with the frustration of this year. But it's just inaccurate in this case, no matter how you want to dissect it. The obsession with strikeouts is weird. Good players still strike out. The top 30 leaderboard this year is littered with star players: Max Muncy, Julio Rodriguez, Luis Robert, Matt Chapman, Kyle Schwarber, Adolis Garcia, J.T. Realmuto, Gunnar Henderson...list goes on. Out of all those guys, the only players with a higher walk rate than Grisham are Muncy, Schwarber and Jack Suwinski. Well hot darn. I had it all wrong. Grishams an above average hitter!!! Shoot. I hope they give him a raise and sign him to a long extension when the time comes!!! You fool nobody. Keep on giving him the excuses for hitting 199 and not putting the ball in play and striking out 3-4 times a game at times. There's a reason he's hitting 9th in the order. He should be platooning as much as possible . Actually, you have a weird obsession for not putting much emphasis into strikeouts. They're really killers, and do zero good.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 4, 2023 22:25:14 GMT -8
Time to backtrack and shift goalposts, I see, as the numbers disprove your assertions. Still wrong, though, unfortunately. Career strikeout rate with runners in scoring position is 23.5%. Career wrC+ is 111. He's been an above average hitter in the RISP metric for his entire career. You know you can look these things up, right? Is it really worth nitpicking a single stat that doesn't erase everything else? I get it, you want to pile on and you're jaded with the frustration of this year. But it's just inaccurate in this case, no matter how you want to dissect it. The obsession with strikeouts is weird. Good players still strike out. The top 30 leaderboard this year is littered with star players: Max Muncy, Julio Rodriguez, Luis Robert, Matt Chapman, Kyle Schwarber, Adolis Garcia, J.T. Realmuto, Gunnar Henderson...list goes on. Out of all those guys, the only players with a higher walk rate than Grisham are Muncy, Schwarber and Jack Suwinski. Well hot darn. I had it all wrong. Grishams an above average hitter!!! Shoot. I hope they give him a raise and sign him to a long extension when the time comes!!! You fool nobody. Keep on giving him the excuses for hitting 199 and not putting the ball in play and striking out 3-4 times a game at times. There's a reason he's hitting 9th in the order. He should be platooning as much as possible . Actually, you have a weird obsession for not putting much emphasis into strikeouts. They're really killers, and do zero good. He's an above average hitter in the only metric you care about...and then you reference batting average. Yeah, that's an L. Nobody is giving him excuses. I'm simply pointing out that your argument that you've made constantly is factually wrong. Plain and simple. He strikes out with runners in scoring position too much? Nope. He can't hit with men on? Nope. Understand (for the 85th time) that the things you're bitching about are covered in other, more comprehensive stats that take into account ALL the outcomes, not just the ones you want to harp on. Strikeouts are balanced out by walks. If a player walks at a double digit clip, no, I don't care about strikeouts, for the most part. And you're not platooning a player on the weak side of a platoon when they have reverse splits. Again, analytics 101. And yes, there's a reason he's hitting ninth. Speed and an ability to draw walks to turn the lineup over to get back to Kim, Tatis, Soto, Machado and Bogaerts. Lineup construction 101. A lot of 101's, apparently. Facts don't care about your feelings.
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Post by aardvark on Oct 4, 2023 22:49:13 GMT -8
Grisham will probably end up with the Padres again, with a decent raise as well, for no other reason than his defense. But, IMHO, unless he steps up his complete offensive production, 2024 will be his last as a Padre.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 4, 2023 23:30:02 GMT -8
Well hot darn. I had it all wrong. Grishams an above average hitter!!! Shoot. I hope they give him a raise and sign him to a long extension when the time comes!!! You fool nobody. Keep on giving him the excuses for hitting 199 and not putting the ball in play and striking out 3-4 times a game at times. There's a reason he's hitting 9th in the order. He should be platooning as much as possible . Actually, you have a weird obsession for not putting much emphasis into strikeouts. They're really killers, and do zero good. He's an above average hitter in the only metric you care about...and then you reference batting average. Yeah, that's an L. Nobody is giving him excuses. I'm simply pointing out that your argument that you've made constantly is factually wrong. Plain and simple. He strikes out with runners in scoring position too much? Nope. He can't hit with men on? Nope. Understand (for the 85th time) that the things you're bitching about are covered in other, more comprehensive stats that take into account ALL the outcomes, not just the ones you want to harp on. Strikeouts are balanced out by walks. If a player walks at a double digit clip, no, I don't care about strikeouts, for the most part. And you're not platooning a player on the weak side of a platoon when they have reverse splits. Again, analytics 101. And yes, there's a reason he's hitting ninth. Speed and an ability to draw walks to turn the lineup over to get back to Kim, Tatis, Soto, Machado and Bogaerts. Lineup construction 101. A lot of 101's, apparently. Facts don't care about your feelings. The only one that's going to take an L here, is you. The guy that's TRYING to justify Grishams offensive performances. A guy that attempts to compare Grisham to Luis Roberts and others on that strike out list of yours. Lol. Those guys MORE than make up for their strike outs. What a desperate, and ridiculous comparison. Strike outs are not as important for a guy like Luis Roberts, but they're very important for a guy like Grisham who doesn't do much else, but bat 198. It makes them very glaring. I usually don't put a whole lot of emphasis into batting averages, but when it's 198, you should. So yeah, I'm going to bring up his abysmal batting average. Uh huh. He's batting ninth to turn over the lineup. You're hilarious. He's batting ninth in order to give him the least amount of at bats as possible. Now THAT'S lineup construction,101 in his case. Not a nice try on a spin there. The quality's you mention would have him batting leadoff, but that didn't work out well for him. I hope he can turn it around next year. I'm pulling for him, but I have my doubts based on his plate performances.
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