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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 21:10:39 GMT -8
Sure, we went through the Renfroe phase, and unfortunately we're going through the horrible offensive phase with Grisham now. Of course I hope we can do better than Renfroe, but I'm only saying that the Tatis in center and Renfroe in right is a better situation than the current Grisham one. Grisham has a horrendous time with RISP, and strikes out an incredible amount of time. Renfroe is much better in those two areas as well as having more power and has a cannon of an arm. We need people to put the ball in play. You can be Rigid Ryan and stick to using your stat, but you're wrong if you feel we wouldn't do better with Renfroe on the lineup in right. You, yourself have stated that we need more slugging. Renfroe has more power than Grisham. You can't show me anything besides "You're wrong" so that's enough for me to just tune out. You're saying the same things over and over. It doesn't work that way. I don't care if he has more power, it's meaningless without context. That's all that NEEDS to be said. You're either right or wrong, and in this case, you're wrong. The strike out ratio and the horrible batting with RISP is enough to get Grisham out of the lineup alone. It's unprecedented. He's a big time rally killer. Renfroe may not be a huge upgrade, but I'll take it with his power, etc.... Renfroe hit 29 home runs in 2022, and over 30 in one season with the Padres. He has A LOT more power than Grisham. That matters A LOT. I would hope we could do better than Renfroe, but if I had to choose between those two it's Renfroe all day long. You probably don't want to look at what Renfroe has done opposed to Grisham in the last 3 years. It's not even close.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 21:23:07 GMT -8
You can't show me anything besides "You're wrong" so that's enough for me to just tune out. You're saying the same things over and over. It doesn't work that way. I don't care if he has more power, it's meaningless without context. That's all that NEEDS to be said. You're either right or wrong, and in this case, you're wrong. The strike out ratio and the horrible batting with RISP is enough to get Grisham out of the lineup alone. It's unprecedented. He's a big time rally killer. Renfroe may not be a huge upgrade, but I'll take it with his power, etc.... Renfroe hit 29 home runs in 2022, and over 30 in one season with the Padres. He has A LOT more power than Grisham. That matters A LOT. I would hope we could do better than Renfroe, but if I had to choose between those two it's Renfroe all day long. You probably don't want to look at what Renfroe has done opposed to Grisham in the last 3 years. It's not even close. And here comes the goalposts shifting. If that's "unprecedented"....what are we using to refer to Renfroe as? Because he's been significantly *worse* than Grisham this year with runners in scoring position. Hold the L here.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 22:08:32 GMT -8
That's all that NEEDS to be said. You're either right or wrong, and in this case, you're wrong. The strike out ratio and the horrible batting with RISP is enough to get Grisham out of the lineup alone. It's unprecedented. He's a big time rally killer. Renfroe may not be a huge upgrade, but I'll take it with his power, etc.... Renfroe hit 29 home runs in 2022, and over 30 in one season with the Padres. He has A LOT more power than Grisham. That matters A LOT. I would hope we could do better than Renfroe, but if I had to choose between those two it's Renfroe all day long. You probably don't want to look at what Renfroe has done opposed to Grisham in the last 3 years. It's not even close. And here comes the goalposts shifting. If that's "unprecedented"....what are we using to refer to Renfroe as? Because he's been significantly *worse* than Grisham this year with runners in scoring position. Hold the L here. That banner absolutely goes to you with the Capital L. I understand you don't want to talk about Renfroes power over the last 3 years and his cannon arm, and how great Tatis would be in center and Grishams horrible strike out ratio, but it's ok to admit that you're in over your head on a topic, like this one. One thing I will tell you is that I hope we can do MUCH better than Renfroe as a Grisham replacement. Grisham is so bad that Renfroe, in a down year for him, is still a better option. Very telling. Grishams been horrible the past 2 years, and Renfroe has not.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 29, 2023 22:11:22 GMT -8
You're using this comparison to defend Grisham being our every day Center Fielder? Grisham who has the same wRC+ as the guy who just got released by another team? Not saying we should get Renfroe, but I am saying that it would be nice to have Grisham as our teams 4th outfielder, not the CF starter every day. Yes, I'm using that comparison because it's relevant. Look at the league. Center field is not deep. There are a half dozen very good ones, then you're into the Grisham tier. Grisham is 8th in xWOBA for his position. You're not upgrading that position without downgrading elsewhere. Renfroe's release has more to do with the Angels than the player, but why would we get a below average right fielder who is going to be 32 to move the best right fielder in the game to a position that takes away his biggest asset? It's just bad process. I don't want Renfroe. But I do want one of our shortstops in the outfield. If we still had Abrams, I would have loved to put him in the outfield for us..
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 22:12:50 GMT -8
Yes, I'm using that comparison because it's relevant. Look at the league. Center field is not deep. There are a half dozen very good ones, then you're into the Grisham tier. Grisham is 8th in xWOBA for his position. You're not upgrading that position without downgrading elsewhere. Renfroe's release has more to do with the Angels than the player, but why would we get a below average right fielder who is going to be 32 to move the best right fielder in the game to a position that takes away his biggest asset? It's just bad process. I don't want Renfroe. But I do want one of our shortstops in the outfield. If we still had Abrams, I would have loved to put him in the outfield for us.. Yeah, I don't WANT Renfroe either, but I feel he would be a better option than Grisham, with Tatis in center. I hope we can get a little creative and not have the rigid tone. Something has to be done with Grisham. He is NOT getting it done. I think Boegarts would be a very good outfielder, but I highly doubt they go that route. Kim at short.
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Post by aardvark on Aug 29, 2023 22:15:53 GMT -8
You can't show me anything besides "You're wrong" so that's enough for me to just tune out. You're saying the same things over and over. It doesn't work that way. I don't care if he has more power, it's meaningless without context. That's all that NEEDS to be said. You're either right or wrong, and in this case, you're wrong. The strike out ratio and the horrible batting with RISP is enough to get Grisham out of the lineup alone. It's unprecedented. He's a big time rally killer. Renfroe may not be a huge upgrade, but I'll take it with his power, etc.... Renfroe hit 29 home runs in 2022, and over 30 in one season with the Padres. He has A LOT more power than Grisham. That matters A LOT. I would hope we could do better than Renfroe, but if I had to choose between those two it's Renfroe all day long. You probably don't want to look at what Renfroe has done opposed to Grisham in the last 3 years. It's not even close. Then why did we get rid of Renfroe the first time?
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 22:24:16 GMT -8
And here comes the goalposts shifting. If that's "unprecedented"....what are we using to refer to Renfroe as? Because he's been significantly *worse* than Grisham this year with runners in scoring position. Hold the L here. That banner absolutely goes to you with the Capital L. I understand you don't want to talk about Renfroes power over the last 3 years and his cannon arm, and how great Tatis would be in center and Grishams horrible strike out ratio, but it's ok to admit that you're in over your head on a topic, like this one. One thing I will tell you is that I hope we can do MUCH better than Renfroe as a Grisham replacement. Grisham is so bad that Renfroe, in a down year for him, is still a better option. Very telling. Grishams been horrible the past 2 years, and Renfroe has not. Lol. Dude.....you were just completely wrong and didn't even acknowledge it. Then you'll make up another bunch of factors that have no relevance, are encompassed in other stats that have already been provided for you, or go off on another false tangent. What Renfroe did in Boston is meaningless. Less than meaningless. Congrats, he has raw power. His defense outside of his arm strength is just okay. While you deal in hypotheticals, I'll deal in facts. Fernando is the best right fielder in baseball by a wide, wide margin. Grisham's a plus defensive outfielder in center with a nearly identical bat to Renfroe's. You're not replacing Grisham with Renfroe, you're replacing Grisham with Tatis while downgrading in right.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 22:24:57 GMT -8
That's all that NEEDS to be said. You're either right or wrong, and in this case, you're wrong. The strike out ratio and the horrible batting with RISP is enough to get Grisham out of the lineup alone. It's unprecedented. He's a big time rally killer. Renfroe may not be a huge upgrade, but I'll take it with his power, etc.... Renfroe hit 29 home runs in 2022, and over 30 in one season with the Padres. He has A LOT more power than Grisham. That matters A LOT. I would hope we could do better than Renfroe, but if I had to choose between those two it's Renfroe all day long. You probably don't want to look at what Renfroe has done opposed to Grisham in the last 3 years. It's not even close. Then why did we get rid of Renfroe the first time? Because he couldn't make enough consistent contact to get to the next level.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 22:25:38 GMT -8
Yes, I'm using that comparison because it's relevant. Look at the league. Center field is not deep. There are a half dozen very good ones, then you're into the Grisham tier. Grisham is 8th in xWOBA for his position. You're not upgrading that position without downgrading elsewhere. Renfroe's release has more to do with the Angels than the player, but why would we get a below average right fielder who is going to be 32 to move the best right fielder in the game to a position that takes away his biggest asset? It's just bad process. I don't want Renfroe. But I do want one of our shortstops in the outfield. If we still had Abrams, I would have loved to put him in the outfield for us.. Pass. Pass. Pass.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 22:43:19 GMT -8
That's all that NEEDS to be said. You're either right or wrong, and in this case, you're wrong. The strike out ratio and the horrible batting with RISP is enough to get Grisham out of the lineup alone. It's unprecedented. He's a big time rally killer. Renfroe may not be a huge upgrade, but I'll take it with his power, etc.... Renfroe hit 29 home runs in 2022, and over 30 in one season with the Padres. He has A LOT more power than Grisham. That matters A LOT. I would hope we could do better than Renfroe, but if I had to choose between those two it's Renfroe all day long. You probably don't want to look at what Renfroe has done opposed to Grisham in the last 3 years. It's not even close. Then why did we get rid of Renfroe the first time? All I'm talking about is at this moment, I would take Renfroe over Grisham if I had to choose. I don't want either of them on the Padres. I want somebody better than both of them.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 22:47:41 GMT -8
That banner absolutely goes to you with the Capital L. I understand you don't want to talk about Renfroes power over the last 3 years and his cannon arm, and how great Tatis would be in center and Grishams horrible strike out ratio, but it's ok to admit that you're in over your head on a topic, like this one. One thing I will tell you is that I hope we can do MUCH better than Renfroe as a Grisham replacement. Grisham is so bad that Renfroe, in a down year for him, is still a better option. Very telling. Grishams been horrible the past 2 years, and Renfroe has not. Lol. Dude.....you were just completely wrong and didn't even acknowledge it. Then you'll make up another bunch of factors that have no relevance, are encompassed in other stats that have already been provided for you, or go off on another false tangent. What Renfroe did in Boston is meaningless. Less than meaningless. Congrats, he has raw power. His defense outside of his arm strength is just okay. While you deal in hypotheticals, I'll deal in facts. Fernando is the best right fielder in baseball by a wide, wide margin. Grisham's a plus defensive outfielder in center with a nearly identical bat to Renfroe's. You're not replacing Grisham with Renfroe, you're replacing Grisham with Tatis while downgrading in right. If Renfroe has a worse batting average with RISP than Grisham, that still doesn't take away all the other important factors that Renfroe dies better, like strikes out much less, has more power. Offensively, you compare Renfroe to Grisham, so there's that.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 22:55:48 GMT -8
Lol. Dude.....you were just completely wrong and didn't even acknowledge it. Then you'll make up another bunch of factors that have no relevance, are encompassed in other stats that have already been provided for you, or go off on another false tangent. What Renfroe did in Boston is meaningless. Less than meaningless. Congrats, he has raw power. His defense outside of his arm strength is just okay. While you deal in hypotheticals, I'll deal in facts. Fernando is the best right fielder in baseball by a wide, wide margin. Grisham's a plus defensive outfielder in center with a nearly identical bat to Renfroe's. You're not replacing Grisham with Renfroe, you're replacing Grisham with Tatis while downgrading in right. If Renfroe has a worse batting average with RISP than Grisham, that still doesn't take away all the other important factors that Renfroe dies better, like strikes out much less, has more power. Offensively, you compare Renfroe to Grisham, so there's that. We have a stat for that - It's called wRC+. Renfroe's is 95, Grisham's is 93. You can keep raving about "more power" and "less strikeouts" because that's all the flimsy arguments you have. They are completely different players who play different positions, so I'm not comparing them with anything other than a comprehensive, park-adjusted metric.
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