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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 10:54:59 GMT -8
(It's because it's a terrible idea.) No, I don't think it is a bad idea. That's just your, or anybody elses opinion. Moving your best arm out of right field, the position it belongs, to replace a Gold Glove outfielder in center (a very shallow position where upgrading is not easy to begin with) is, in fact, a terrible idea. Replacing Tatis in right with a shortstop who has never played the outfield is likewise....terrible. I get the obsession that people have with Grisham's offense, but you're asking for a whole lot worse when you don't consider the big picture. Tatis is the best right fielder in baseball. You create a domino chain where you're not really upgrading the roster, you're just making lateral moves and transitioning guys to positions that weaken your overall defense.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 28, 2023 13:31:21 GMT -8
No, I don't think it is a bad idea. That's just your, or anybody elses opinion. Moving your best arm out of right field, the position it belongs, to replace a Gold Glove outfielder in center (a very shallow position where upgrading is not easy to begin with) is, in fact, a terrible idea. Replacing Tatis in right with a shortstop who has never played the outfield is likewise....terrible. I get the obsession that people have with Grisham's offense, but you're asking for a whole lot worse when you don't consider the big picture. Tatis is the best right fielder in baseball. You create a domino chain where you're not really upgrading the roster, you're just making lateral moves and transitioning guys to positions that weaken your overall defense. Of course you don't do it if Boegarts couldn't handle it. He has a very good arm, and Tatis would track down fly balls that Grisham couldn't get to. His arm would still be used in center field as an advantage. There are gaps out there in the outfield that he would throw from. He would be a gold glove center fielder and you'd be better on the offensive end. Don't forget that.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 13:41:04 GMT -8
Moving your best arm out of right field, the position it belongs, to replace a Gold Glove outfielder in center (a very shallow position where upgrading is not easy to begin with) is, in fact, a terrible idea. Replacing Tatis in right with a shortstop who has never played the outfield is likewise....terrible. I get the obsession that people have with Grisham's offense, but you're asking for a whole lot worse when you don't consider the big picture. Tatis is the best right fielder in baseball. You create a domino chain where you're not really upgrading the roster, you're just making lateral moves and transitioning guys to positions that weaken your overall defense. Of course you don't do it if Boegarts couldn't handle it. He has a very good arm, and Tatis would track down fly balls that Grisham couldn't get to. His arm would still be used in center field as an advantage. There are gaps out there in the outfield that he would throw from. He would be a gold glove center fielder and you'd be better on the offensive end. Don't forget that. Grisham's range isn't a problem, his arm is. Your strongest arm goes in right, especially in the ballpark they play in. The Bogaerts nonsense, beyond it not happening in any universe, is just plain silly because he's not the freak athlete Tatis is, which is the reason he transitioned so easily into the spot. You can't just randomly move guys around to spots to fit some kind of offensive wet dream. Tatis' arm in center is malpractice, replacing him in right field isn't going to be easy and you're going to go from two very good defensive outfielders to one. People don't seem to understand the concept of defensive positioning and value. Because of the adjustment to corner outfield spots, you're going to have to find a VERY good offensive player who isn't a defensive liability to offset any kind of potential gain you'd make elsewhere. Add in payroll constraints? Losing endeavor.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 28, 2023 14:08:19 GMT -8
Of course you don't do it if Boegarts couldn't handle it. He has a very good arm, and Tatis would track down fly balls that Grisham couldn't get to. His arm would still be used in center field as an advantage. There are gaps out there in the outfield that he would throw from. He would be a gold glove center fielder and you'd be better on the offensive end. Don't forget that. Grisham's range isn't a problem, his arm is. Your strongest arm goes in right, especially in the ballpark they play in. The Bogaerts nonsense, beyond it not happening in any universe, is just plain silly because he's not the freak athlete Tatis is, which is the reason he transitioned so easily into the spot. You can't just randomly move guys around to spots to fit some kind of offensive wet dream. Tatis' arm in center is malpractice, replacing him in right field isn't going to be easy and you're going to go from two very good defensive outfielders to one. People don't seem to understand the concept of defensive positioning and value. Because of the adjustment to corner outfield spots, you're going to have to find a VERY good offensive player who isn't a defensive liability to offset any kind of potential gain you'd make elsewhere. Add in payroll constraints? Losing endeavor. I do get the tradition is to have your strongest arm in right field, typically. It's been that way since I was a kid. Tatis arm would come in handy from the gaps. He also has more range than Grisham. I also understand defensive positioning, but if Boegarts, or someone else, could play right field adequately our offense would be a lot better. It would have to make sense, obviously, first. Grisham is just over his head in the hitting department, for a long time now. Hell give you occasional power, but that's about it. Too many runners are left on scoring position, and strikes out A LOT. We did go very far last year with him in center, but I don't know. Like I said, I doubt they do anything, but we need to upgrade there.
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Post by survalli on Aug 28, 2023 14:43:27 GMT -8
Grisham's range isn't a problem, his arm is. Your strongest arm goes in right, especially in the ballpark they play in. The Bogaerts nonsense, beyond it not happening in any universe, is just plain silly because he's not the freak athlete Tatis is, which is the reason he transitioned so easily into the spot. You can't just randomly move guys around to spots to fit some kind of offensive wet dream. Tatis' arm in center is malpractice, replacing him in right field isn't going to be easy and you're going to go from two very good defensive outfielders to one. People don't seem to understand the concept of defensive positioning and value. Because of the adjustment to corner outfield spots, you're going to have to find a VERY good offensive player who isn't a defensive liability to offset any kind of potential gain you'd make elsewhere. Add in payroll constraints? Losing endeavor. I do get the tradition is to have your strongest arm in right field, typically. It's been that way since I was a kid. Tatis arm would come in handy from the gaps. He also has more range than Grisham. I also understand defensive positioning, but if Boegarts, or someone else, could play right field adequately our offense would be a lot better. It would have to make sense, obviously, first. Grisham is just over his head in the hitting department, for a long time now. Hell give you occasional power, but that's about it. Too many runners are left on scoring position, and strikes out A LOT. We did go very far last year with him in center, but I don't know. Like I said, I doubt they do anything, but we need to upgrade there. after seeing and Myers, Profar, Reyes, all DFA'd this year, i believe Grisham is headed that way as well. he will get a look or two but i think he is damaged goods at this point.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 14:52:16 GMT -8
I do get the tradition is to have your strongest arm in right field, typically. It's been that way since I was a kid. Tatis arm would come in handy from the gaps. He also has more range than Grisham. I also understand defensive positioning, but if Boegarts, or someone else, could play right field adequately our offense would be a lot better. It would have to make sense, obviously, first. Grisham is just over his head in the hitting department, for a long time now. Hell give you occasional power, but that's about it. Too many runners are left on scoring position, and strikes out A LOT. We did go very far last year with him in center, but I don't know. Like I said, I doubt they do anything, but we need to upgrade there. after seeing and Myers, Profar, Reyes, all DFA'd this year, i believe Grisham is headed that way as well. he will get a look or two but i think he is damaged goods at this point. Zero chance he is DFA'd.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 14:53:11 GMT -8
Grisham's range isn't a problem, his arm is. Your strongest arm goes in right, especially in the ballpark they play in. The Bogaerts nonsense, beyond it not happening in any universe, is just plain silly because he's not the freak athlete Tatis is, which is the reason he transitioned so easily into the spot. You can't just randomly move guys around to spots to fit some kind of offensive wet dream. Tatis' arm in center is malpractice, replacing him in right field isn't going to be easy and you're going to go from two very good defensive outfielders to one. People don't seem to understand the concept of defensive positioning and value. Because of the adjustment to corner outfield spots, you're going to have to find a VERY good offensive player who isn't a defensive liability to offset any kind of potential gain you'd make elsewhere. Add in payroll constraints? Losing endeavor. I do get the tradition is to have your strongest arm in right field, typically. It's been that way since I was a kid. Tatis arm would come in handy from the gaps. He also has more range than Grisham. I also understand defensive positioning, but if Boegarts, or someone else, could play right field adequately our offense would be a lot better. It would have to make sense, obviously, first. Grisham is just over his head in the hitting department, for a long time now. Hell give you occasional power, but that's about it. Too many runners are left on scoring position, and strikes out A LOT. We did go very far last year with him in center, but I don't know. Like I said, I doubt they do anything, but we need to upgrade there. You don't upgrade there with Tatis, though.
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Post by aardvark on Aug 28, 2023 14:55:26 GMT -8
I do get the tradition is to have your strongest arm in right field, typically. It's been that way since I was a kid. Tatis arm would come in handy from the gaps. He also has more range than Grisham. I also understand defensive positioning, but if Boegarts, or someone else, could play right field adequately our offense would be a lot better. It would have to make sense, obviously, first. Grisham is just over his head in the hitting department, for a long time now. Hell give you occasional power, but that's about it. Too many runners are left on scoring position, and strikes out A LOT. We did go very far last year with him in center, but I don't know. Like I said, I doubt they do anything, but we need to upgrade there. after seeing and Myers, Profar, Reyes, all DFA'd this year, i believe Grisham is headed that way as well. he will get a look or two but i think he is damaged goods at this point. Grisham is still under Padres control for 2 more years--he's a FA in 2026. His defense will keep him here next season (I believe), and if the rest of the team starts hitting next season like many think they should, Grisham will stay for all of '24, at least. Don't shoot the messenger--this is just one fan's opinion.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 15:15:56 GMT -8
after seeing and Myers, Profar, Reyes, all DFA'd this year, i believe Grisham is headed that way as well. he will get a look or two but i think he is damaged goods at this point. Grisham is still under Padres control for 2 more years--he's a FA in 2026. His defense will keep him here next season (I believe), and if the rest of the team starts hitting next season like many think they should, Grisham will stay for all of '24, at least. Don't shoot the messenger--this is just one fan's opinion. And you are likely correct here.
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Post by docmm on Aug 28, 2023 15:20:09 GMT -8
after seeing and Myers, Profar, Reyes, all DFA'd this year, i believe Grisham is headed that way as well. he will get a look or two but i think he is damaged goods at this point. Zero chance he is DFA'd. Maybe not but Kintera brought up a very valid point today in talking about why he wants to see Grisham go too. Grisham has over 1700 MLB ABs and his CAREER BA is .217. .217!!!!!! That's like keeping Austin Hedges behind the plate those extra years because he could "handle pitchers". The guy with the Career .188 BA. He stayed here wayyy too long and so has Grisham. When you've had more than 1700 MLB ABs and you're hitting .217, THAT'S who you are. Hell, .217 would be an improvement over his robust .203 average this year. Once the Padres are out of the race, watch how fast their hitting comes back. Just enough to get us excited for next year.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 15:25:43 GMT -8
Maybe not but Kintera brought up a very valid point today in talking about why he wants to see Grisham go too. Grisham has over 1700 MLB ABs and his CAREER BA is .217. .217!!!!!! That's like keeping Austin Hedges behind the plate those extra years because he could "handle pitchers". The guy with the Career .188 BA. He stayed here wayyy too long and so has Grisham. When you've had more than 1700 MLB ABs and you're hitting .217, THAT'S who you are. Hell, .217 would be an improvement over his robust .203 average this year. Once the Padres are out of the race, watch how fast their hitting comes back. Just enough to get us excited for next year. You lost me with "Kentera" and "good point." Nobody should care about batting average in 2023, first and foremost. OBP and slugging are far more important factors. Despite that's 1700 PA's, he's still just 26. It's nothing like keeping Austin Hedges behind the plate because Austin Hedges is objectively a bottom five hitter in baseball, Grisham is not. Austin Hedges has a 52 wrC+ for his career. His wRC+ this year is 22. There's no reasonable comparison to be made.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 28, 2023 16:29:58 GMT -8
No, I don't think it is a bad idea. That's just your, or anybody elses opinion. Moving your best arm out of right field, the position it belongs, to replace a Gold Glove outfielder in center (a very shallow position where upgrading is not easy to begin with) is, in fact, a terrible idea. Replacing Tatis in right with a shortstop who has never played the outfield is likewise....terrible. I get the obsession that people have with Grisham's offense, but you're asking for a whole lot worse when you don't consider the big picture. Tatis is the best right fielder in baseball. You create a domino chain where you're not really upgrading the roster, you're just making lateral moves and transitioning guys to positions that weaken your overall defense. Okay so you're saying that it's crazy to put a guy that's never played in the outfield before in the outfield? Last time I checked, this is Tatis's first year playing right field, and you just said that he is the best right fielder in baseball. So what makes you think Bogaerts will be a bad right fielder?Theoretically, most shortstops should be good right fielders defensively. Shortstops have to have good arms to play the position, and they have to be athletic to play the position. It's a pretty simple formula - that's why Tatis is so good in right. You are upgrading the roster. You are improving at the margins. You have an improvement at the 4th outfielder slot with Grisham providing WAR there. You have an improvement in offense at right field + center field combined, You have a wash in defense. Tatis will be better then Grisham in CF, and Tatis would be better then Bogaerts will be in right.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 28, 2023 16:37:20 GMT -8
after seeing and Myers, Profar, Reyes, all DFA'd this year, i believe Grisham is headed that way as well. he will get a look or two but i think he is damaged goods at this point. Grisham is still under Padres control for 2 more years--he's a FA in 2026. His defense will keep him here next season (I believe), and if the rest of the team starts hitting next season like many think they should, Grisham will stay for all of '24, at least. Don't shoot the messenger--this is just one fan's opinion. Yeah, he'd be a good defensive replacement guy. Like I said earlier, we went to the NLCS with Grisham in center last year. If everybody did their job this year, he would fly under the radar a bit, just like he did last year.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 16:38:38 GMT -8
Moving your best arm out of right field, the position it belongs, to replace a Gold Glove outfielder in center (a very shallow position where upgrading is not easy to begin with) is, in fact, a terrible idea. Replacing Tatis in right with a shortstop who has never played the outfield is likewise....terrible. I get the obsession that people have with Grisham's offense, but you're asking for a whole lot worse when you don't consider the big picture. Tatis is the best right fielder in baseball. You create a domino chain where you're not really upgrading the roster, you're just making lateral moves and transitioning guys to positions that weaken your overall defense. Okay so you're saying that it's crazy to put a guy that's never played in the outfield before in the outfield? Last time I checked, this is Tatis's first year playing right field, and you just said that he is the best right fielder in baseball. So what makes you think Bogaerts will be a bad right fielder?Theoretically, most shortstops should be good right fielders defensively. Shortstops have to have good arms to play the position, and they have to be athletic to play the position. It's a pretty simple formula - that's why Tatis is so good in right. You are upgrading the roster. You are improving at the margins. You have an improvement at the 4th outfielder slot with Grisham providing WAR there. You have an improvement in offense at right field + center field combined, You have a wash in defense. Tatis will be better then Grisham in CF, and Tatis would be better then Bogaerts will be in right. I wasn't picking on you, but the idea has several holes. As I said, Tatis and Bogaerts aren't similar. Just because you put one guy out there (who had previously taken reps) and it worked doesn't mean it'll work again. Fernando is a unicorn athletically, Bogaerts is going to be 31 and is not the plus athlete Fernando is. You're not upgrading the roster. You're moving a guy (currently in his best defensive season of his career) from the most important position and lowering his value by putting him in a corner outfield spot. You're making an incredible amount of assumptions built around "This guy should be good in right...maybe...because _______?" It's just more bad process. Leave Fernando in right.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 28, 2023 16:40:35 GMT -8
Moving your best arm out of right field, the position it belongs, to replace a Gold Glove outfielder in center (a very shallow position where upgrading is not easy to begin with) is, in fact, a terrible idea. Replacing Tatis in right with a shortstop who has never played the outfield is likewise....terrible. I get the obsession that people have with Grisham's offense, but you're asking for a whole lot worse when you don't consider the big picture. Tatis is the best right fielder in baseball. You create a domino chain where you're not really upgrading the roster, you're just making lateral moves and transitioning guys to positions that weaken your overall defense. Okay so you're saying that it's crazy to put a guy that's never played in the outfield before in the outfield? Last time I checked, this is Tatis's first year playing right field, and you just said that he is the best right fielder in baseball. So what makes you think Bogaerts will be a bad right fielder?Theoretically, most shortstops should be good right fielders defensively. Shortstops have to have good arms to play the position, and they have to be athletic to play the position. It's a pretty simple formula - that's why Tatis is so good in right. You are upgrading the roster. You are improving at the margins. You have an improvement at the 4th outfielder slot with Grisham providing WAR there. You have an improvement in offense at right field + center field combined, You have a wash in defense. Tatis will be better then Grisham in CF, and Tatis would be better then Bogaerts will be in right. Exactly. Shortstops are typically your most athletic players, therefore there's a good chance that he would at least be an adequate right fielder. That's all we need, and we upgrade on the offensive end.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 28, 2023 16:42:10 GMT -8
Okay so you're saying that it's crazy to put a guy that's never played in the outfield before in the outfield? Last time I checked, this is Tatis's first year playing right field, and you just said that he is the best right fielder in baseball. So what makes you think Bogaerts will be a bad right fielder?Theoretically, most shortstops should be good right fielders defensively. Shortstops have to have good arms to play the position, and they have to be athletic to play the position. It's a pretty simple formula - that's why Tatis is so good in right. You are upgrading the roster. You are improving at the margins. You have an improvement at the 4th outfielder slot with Grisham providing WAR there. You have an improvement in offense at right field + center field combined, You have a wash in defense. Tatis will be better then Grisham in CF, and Tatis would be better then Bogaerts will be in right. I wasn't picking on you, but the idea has several holes. As I said, Tatis and Bogaerts aren't similar. Just because you put one guy out there (who had previously taken reps) and it worked doesn't mean it'll work again. Fernando is a unicorn athletically, Bogaerts is going to be 31 and is not the plus athlete Fernando is. You're not upgrading the roster. You're moving a guy (currently in his best defensive season of his career) from the most important position and lowering his value by putting him in a corner outfield spot. You're making an incredible amount of assumptions built around "This guy should be good in right...maybe...because _______?" It's just more bad process. Leave Fernando in right. The chemistry issue with Machado is a big part of it. Also, last time I checked, Kim is an incredible shortstop defensively. You're not losing anything there, and Cronenworth needs to go back to second. The idea to use Cronenworth as an every day first basemen was terrible. But hey, if you think Bogaerts should stay at short, you could put Kim in the outfield. Or Merrill. Kim might actually be athletic enough to cover center. Then you could keep your best arm in Tatis in right.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 28, 2023 16:42:39 GMT -8
Okay so you're saying that it's crazy to put a guy that's never played in the outfield before in the outfield? Last time I checked, this is Tatis's first year playing right field, and you just said that he is the best right fielder in baseball. So what makes you think Bogaerts will be a bad right fielder?Theoretically, most shortstops should be good right fielders defensively. Shortstops have to have good arms to play the position, and they have to be athletic to play the position. It's a pretty simple formula - that's why Tatis is so good in right. You are upgrading the roster. You are improving at the margins. You have an improvement at the 4th outfielder slot with Grisham providing WAR there. You have an improvement in offense at right field + center field combined, You have a wash in defense. Tatis will be better then Grisham in CF, and Tatis would be better then Bogaerts will be in right. I wasn't picking on you, but the idea has several holes. As I said, Tatis and Bogaerts aren't similar. Just because you put one guy out there (who had previously taken reps) and it worked doesn't mean it'll work again. Fernando is a unicorn athletically, Bogaerts is going to be 31 and is not the plus athlete Fernando is. You're not upgrading the roster. You're moving a guy (currently in his best defensive season of his career) from the most important position and lowering his value by putting him in a corner outfield spot. You're making an incredible amount of assumptions built around "This guy should be good in right...maybe...because _______?" It's just more bad process. Leave Fernando in right. Of course you don't know until you try it. If Boegarts is an adequate right fielder, you've improved the team.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 28, 2023 16:45:35 GMT -8
I wasn't picking on you, but the idea has several holes. As I said, Tatis and Bogaerts aren't similar. Just because you put one guy out there (who had previously taken reps) and it worked doesn't mean it'll work again. Fernando is a unicorn athletically, Bogaerts is going to be 31 and is not the plus athlete Fernando is. You're not upgrading the roster. You're moving a guy (currently in his best defensive season of his career) from the most important position and lowering his value by putting him in a corner outfield spot. You're making an incredible amount of assumptions built around "This guy should be good in right...maybe...because _______?" It's just more bad process. Leave Fernando in right. The chemistry issue with Machado is a big part of it. Also, last time I checked, Kim is an incredible shortstop defensively. You're not losing anything there, and Cronenworth needs to go back to second. The idea to use Cronenworth as an every day first basemen was terrible. But hey, if you think Bogaerts should stay at short, you could put Kim in the outfield. Or Merrill. Kim might actually be athletic enough to cover center. Then you could keep your best arm in Tatis in right. Basically, do whatever is needed to get Grisham out of the lineup while maintaining a good defensive unit.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 28, 2023 16:48:08 GMT -8
I wasn't picking on you, but the idea has several holes. As I said, Tatis and Bogaerts aren't similar. Just because you put one guy out there (who had previously taken reps) and it worked doesn't mean it'll work again. Fernando is a unicorn athletically, Bogaerts is going to be 31 and is not the plus athlete Fernando is. You're not upgrading the roster. You're moving a guy (currently in his best defensive season of his career) from the most important position and lowering his value by putting him in a corner outfield spot. You're making an incredible amount of assumptions built around "This guy should be good in right...maybe...because _______?" It's just more bad process. Leave Fernando in right. The chemistry issue with Machado is a big part of it. Also, last time I checked, Kim is an incredible shortstop defensively. You're not losing anything there, and Cronenworth needs to go back to second. The idea to use Cronenworth as an every day first basemen was terrible. But hey, if you think Bogaerts should stay at short, you could put Kim in the outfield. Or Merrill. Kim might actually be athletic enough to cover center. Then you could keep your best arm in Tatis in right. The better solution is to trade Cronenworth and find a first baseman to take that role. You'll lose defensively, but the positional adjustment won't really matter as much.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 28, 2023 16:52:40 GMT -8
The chemistry issue with Machado is a big part of it. Also, last time I checked, Kim is an incredible shortstop defensively. You're not losing anything there, and Cronenworth needs to go back to second. The idea to use Cronenworth as an every day first basemen was terrible. But hey, if you think Bogaerts should stay at short, you could put Kim in the outfield. Or Merrill. Kim might actually be athletic enough to cover center. Then you could keep your best arm in Tatis in right. Basically, do whatever is needed to get Grisham out of the lineup while maintaining a good defensive unit. Kim would be a really good center fielder.
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