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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 14:35:57 GMT -8
For what purpose? It's dumb. We're trying to get away from that. away from having an every day active player hitting .201? Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games?
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Post by survalli on Aug 29, 2023 14:40:35 GMT -8
away from having an every day active player hitting .201? Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games? your right, release them both and call up someone from Double A
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Post by aardvark on Aug 29, 2023 14:42:46 GMT -8
Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games? your right, release them both and call up someone from Double A Grisham isn't going anywhere.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 14:45:55 GMT -8
Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games? your right, release them both and call up someone from Double A You can't release someone not on the team. I feel like I'm on drugs.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 29, 2023 16:30:29 GMT -8
The point being that the team would have been better off with Drury 8.5M + 2 Decent Pitchers 8.5M + 8.5M = Total of 25.5M vs. getting just Bogaerts. Oh and also, we overpaid for Bogaerts - we are paying 16.1M per win, vs 8.5M for 2+ WAR players in 2022: What are teams playing per WAR in FA: Year 2+ Proj WAR 0-2 Proj WAR Difference 2022 $8.5 M/WAR $6.5 M/WAR $2.0 M/WAR -23.5% blogs.fangraphs.com/what-are-teams-paying-per-war-in-free-agency/Nope. Superstar > Depth. Been proven over and over again. You're using useless projections, knowing you have to overpay for the inevitable downside at the end of the deal, same as everyone else in the same boat. Yeah but we didn't need another superstar, we needed bullpen and rotation depth. We lost a ton of close games this year due to a lack of bullpen depth. You can't say that our bullpen was good this year. Especially when you take Hader out of the group and look at the rest of the relief pitchers we've used this season.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 29, 2023 16:33:37 GMT -8
away from having an every day active player hitting .201? Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games? You're using this comparison to defend Grisham being our every day Center Fielder? Grisham who has the same wRC+ as the guy who just got released by another team? Not saying we should get Renfroe, but I am saying that it would be nice to have Grisham as our teams 4th outfielder, not the CF starter every day.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 16:50:23 GMT -8
Nope. Superstar > Depth. Been proven over and over again. You're using useless projections, knowing you have to overpay for the inevitable downside at the end of the deal, same as everyone else in the same boat. Yeah but we didn't need another superstar, we needed bullpen and rotation depth. We lost a ton of close games this year due to a lack of bullpen depth. You can't say that our bullpen was good this year. Especially when you take Hader out of the group and look at the rest of the relief pitchers we've used this season. Not sure how you can say that at the time, not using revisionist history. Bullpen had quality depth and they had six starters, plus options available in the minors. You can't create what isn't there to be picked up. You should always, always, always target great players. Volatility is a real thing.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 16:52:05 GMT -8
Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games? You're using this comparison to defend Grisham being our every day Center Fielder? Grisham who has the same wRC+ as the guy who just got released by another team? Not saying we should get Renfroe, but I am saying that it would be nice to have Grisham as our teams 4th outfielder, not the CF starter every day. Yes, I'm using that comparison because it's relevant. Look at the league. Center field is not deep. There are a half dozen very good ones, then you're into the Grisham tier. Grisham is 8th in xWOBA for his position. You're not upgrading that position without downgrading elsewhere. Renfroe's release has more to do with the Angels than the player, but why would we get a below average right fielder who is going to be 32 to move the best right fielder in the game to a position that takes away his biggest asset? It's just bad process.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 17:21:41 GMT -8
away from having an every day active player hitting .201? Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games? It's more than that. Renfroe has a much better slugging percentage. Strikes out less, and has 18 home runs compared to Grishams 12, etc.... He also has a cannon of an arm in right field. I'd be happy with Tatis roaming around the center field position like a Panther and still throwing people out from the gaps with Renfroe in right. That's a better team than having Grisham in center.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 17:43:12 GMT -8
Renfroe is hiring .239, with a .300 OBP. He has one home run this month. He has a 95 wRC+, Grisham's is 93. You're going to roster that for 30 games? It's more than that. Renfroe has a much better slugging percentage. Strikes out less, and has 18 home runs compared to Grishams 12, etc.... He also has a cannon of an arm in right field. I'd be happy with Tatis roaming around the center field position like a Panther and still throwing people out from the gaps with Renfroe in right. That's a better team than having Grisham in center. It is not. And it's really not all that close when you factor in the entire picture. Slugging percentage and on base percentage are both encapsulated in wRC+.
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Post by survalli on Aug 29, 2023 17:44:04 GMT -8
Bader is available now, we should make a run at him, he is ultra cheap
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 17:50:50 GMT -8
Bader is available now, we should make a run at him, he is ultra cheap There is zero reason to pursue any rental.
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Post by survalli on Aug 29, 2023 17:54:20 GMT -8
Bader is available now, we should make a run at him, he is ultra cheap There is zero reason to pursue any rental. yes, lets just put Azocar out there and see if we can get some improvement.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 18:02:05 GMT -8
There is zero reason to pursue any rental. yes, lets just put Azocar out there and see if we can get some improvement. Azocar isn't even a starter. And he's likely better than Hader, who has had two down years in a row and has been hurt. This season is done, so you're not looking at rentals.
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Post by junior on Aug 29, 2023 18:47:54 GMT -8
Lugo with the QS and once again, the BP craps the mound. Sad sacks, all of them.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 20:03:30 GMT -8
It's more than that. Renfroe has a much better slugging percentage. Strikes out less, and has 18 home runs compared to Grishams 12, etc.... He also has a cannon of an arm in right field. I'd be happy with Tatis roaming around the center field position like a Panther and still throwing people out from the gaps with Renfroe in right. That's a better team than having Grisham in center. It is not. And it's really not all that close when you factor in the entire picture. Slugging percentage and on base percentage are both encapsulated in wRC+. It is, when you're only talking on the offensive end of it. He has more power, better slugging and strikes out less. I'm sure he's also better in the hitting with RISP Department, as well. Those are very important factors. You're wrong when you say we wouldn't be better if we had Tatis in Center and Renfroe in right. Renfroe has a cannon of an arm, and like I said he has more power/slugging, strikes out far less and hits better with RISP. Tatis would be a gold glover wherever he played in the outfield, except he would have more highlights tracking down balls and still be throwing out people from center and from the gaps. He would be a MORE valuable asset from center. He would play center and the two gaps.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 20:30:05 GMT -8
It is not. And it's really not all that close when you factor in the entire picture. Slugging percentage and on base percentage are both encapsulated in wRC+. It is, when you're only talking on the offensive end of it. He has more power, better slugging and strikes out less. I'm sure he's also better in the hitting with RISP Department, as well. Those are very important factors. You're wrong when you say we wouldn't be better if we had Tatis in Center and Renfroe in right. Renfroe has a cannon of an arm, and like I said he has more power/slugging, strikes out far less and hits better with RISP. Tatis would be a gold glover wherever he played in the outfield, except he would have more highlights tracking down balls and still be throwing out people from center and from the gaps. He would be a MORE valuable asset from center. He would play center and the two gaps. Not wrong. Repeating the same statement doesn't make it true. For the 17th time, wRC+ measures all of the individual things you are combining. It's weighted runs created. They are nearly identical. When the number is nearly identical, you look at other things that matter. Grisham is 5+ years younger. He's cheaper. He's under club control for longer. We went through the Renfroe phrase once, it didn't work out. We can move on. It's fine.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2023 20:43:31 GMT -8
It is, when you're only talking on the offensive end of it. He has more power, better slugging and strikes out less. I'm sure he's also better in the hitting with RISP Department, as well. Those are very important factors. You're wrong when you say we wouldn't be better if we had Tatis in Center and Renfroe in right. Renfroe has a cannon of an arm, and like I said he has more power/slugging, strikes out far less and hits better with RISP. Tatis would be a gold glover wherever he played in the outfield, except he would have more highlights tracking down balls and still be throwing out people from center and from the gaps. He would be a MORE valuable asset from center. He would play center and the two gaps. Not wrong. Repeating the same statement doesn't make it true. For the 17th time, wRC+ measures all of the individual things you are combining. It's weighted runs created. They are nearly identical. When the number is nearly identical, you look at other things that matter. Grisham is 5+ years younger. He's cheaper. He's under club control for longer. We went through the Renfroe phrase once, it didn't work out. We can move on. It's fine. Sure, we went through the Renfroe phase, and unfortunately we're going through the horrible offensive phase with Grisham now. Of course I hope we can do better than Renfroe, but I'm only saying that the Tatis in center and Renfroe in right is a better situation than the current Grisham one. Grisham has a horrendous time with RISP, and strikes out an incredible amount of time. Renfroe is much better in those two areas as well as having more power and has a cannon of an arm. We need people to put the ball in play. He's also a better RBI guy than Grisham. You can be Rigid Ryan and stick to using your stat, but you're wrong if you feel we wouldn't do better with Renfroe on the lineup in right. You, yourself have stated that we need more slugging. Renfroe has more power than Grisham.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 20:50:04 GMT -8
Not wrong. Repeating the same statement doesn't make it true. For the 17th time, wRC+ measures all of the individual things you are combining. It's weighted runs created. They are nearly identical. When the number is nearly identical, you look at other things that matter. Grisham is 5+ years younger. He's cheaper. He's under club control for longer. We went through the Renfroe phrase once, it didn't work out. We can move on. It's fine. Sure, we went through the Renfroe phase, and unfortunately we're going through the horrible offensive phase with Grisham now. Of course I hope we can do better than Renfroe, but I'm only saying that the Tatis in center and Renfroe in right is a better situation than the current Grisham one. Grisham has a horrendous time with RISP, and strikes out an incredible amount of time. Renfroe is much better in those two areas as well as having more power and has a cannon of an arm. We need people to put the ball in play. You can be Rigid Ryan and stick to using your stat, but you're wrong if you feel we wouldn't do better with Renfroe on the lineup in right. You, yourself have stated that we need more slugging. Renfroe has more power than Grisham. You can't show me anything besides "You're wrong" so that's enough for me to just tune out. You're saying the same things over and over. It doesn't work that way. I don't care if he has more power, it's meaningless without context.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2023 20:58:05 GMT -8
Not wrong. Repeating the same statement doesn't make it true. For the 17th time, wRC+ measures all of the individual things you are combining. It's weighted runs created. They are nearly identical. When the number is nearly identical, you look at other things that matter. Grisham is 5+ years younger. He's cheaper. He's under club control for longer. We went through the Renfroe phrase once, it didn't work out. We can move on. It's fine. Sure, we went through the Renfroe phase, and unfortunately we're going through the horrible offensive phase with Grisham now. Of course I hope we can do better than Renfroe, but I'm only saying that the Tatis in center and Renfroe in right is a better situation than the current Grisham one. Grisham has a horrendous time with RISP, and strikes out an incredible amount of time. Renfroe is much better in those two areas as well as having more power and has a cannon of an arm. We need people to put the ball in play. He's also a better RBI guy than Grisham. You can be Rigid Ryan and stick to using your stat, but you're wrong if you feel we wouldn't do better with Renfroe on the lineup in right. You, yourself have stated that we need more slugging. Renfroe has more power than Grisham. By the way, Renfroe in high leverage spots this year? .154. Runners in scoring position? .164. .164/.231/.285 with a 28% strikeout rate. Yeah, he's lighting the world on fire.
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