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Post by sdsuball on Oct 21, 2024 0:45:53 GMT -8
"Most Americans keep up-to-date with the cost of a gallon of gasoline. When prices climb, political uproar ensues, and politicians struggle to lower prices. However, according to Haigwood and Durante, the price consumers pay at the pump remains far lower than the true cost paid per gallon of gasoline. Gasolinegate applies the concept of Total Societal Impact (TSI)—a measure of all the benefits and costs associated with a product over its lifetime—to gasoline, and cites the Center for Investigative Reporting’s conclusion that the true cost of gasoline is actually $15 per gallon. Few drivers would be willing to pay that price upfront. But taxpayer dollars subsidize fossil fuel production, military operations to defend oil supplies, and efforts toward climate mitigation and adaptation, all of which add up to the TSI of gasoline. In the end, taxpayers are left with the bill whether they realize it or not. Gasoline is responsible for an estimated $1.7 trillion in healthcare spending. Gasolinegate points out that, based on a study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 53,000 Americans per year die prematurely due to air pollution caused specifically by gasoline-powered cars." www.eesi.org/articles/view/in-gasolinegate-the-true-cost-of-gasoline-far-exceeds-what-we-see-at-the-pump |
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 21, 2024 0:56:08 GMT -8
One thing that CA (as well as the US nationally) needs to do is put minimum fuel efficiency regulations on SUV's and trucks. The US has had these regulations on regular passenger vehicles since the 70's, when standard cars were what most people drove. Nowadays there are a lot more trucks and SUV's on the road. Doing this would decrease carbon emissions and improve smog, with very minimal changes by auto manufacturers (more hybrid trucks and SUV's, more efficient engines that can throttle the number of cylinders being used based on power demand, etc). It does seem that there has been this bizarre backlash against hybrids and electric vehicles by some people on the far right, where those people feel they now need to get a huge V8 truck with 600 HP to compensate for the gasoline that isn't being burned by the electric car, or compensating for something else - not sure! Anyways, it's become clear that a lot of people don't want electric cars (or can't afford them), so it would be nice to have more fuel efficient gas vehicles as well.
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Post by bnastyaztecs on Oct 21, 2024 8:43:33 GMT -8
Average price of gas in Oregon today: $3.67 Average price of gas in California today; $4.64 That's a gap of 97 cents. Average price of gas in Washington today: $4.06. That's a gap of 58 cents. Answer the question, why are democrats ripping us off? Well...first you have to prove that "democrats" are ripping us off...you certainly made the accusation...plucked some cherry-picked gas prices...that nobody on this board is paying...but...you certainly have not made the case that democrats are responsible...actually...there are a myriad of reasons why we pay higher prices: Here’s Why Gas Always Costs More in California"The current average gas price in the US is $3.10. In California, it’s $4.49, according to AAA. That’s not an anomaly — Californians consistently pay more for gas than the rest of the country. A confluence of factors join together to increase the price of gas in The Golden State, including environmental restrictions, higher taxes and a shrinking number of regional refineries. One of the more notable factors is that the state now actually burns the cleanest gas in the world, according to Severin Borenstein, faculty director of the energy institute at the University of California Berkeley’s Haas School of Business." "Due to a carve-out in the 1970 US Clean Air Act, California is the only US state that can set stricter emissions standards than the federal government." www.cnn.com/2024/01/27/business/why-does-gas-cost-more-in-california/index.html#:~:text=That%27s%20not%20an%20anomaly%20%E2%80%94%20Californians,shrinking%20number%20of%20regional%20refineries. CA has approx 31.3 million autos...Dems made sure their emissions do not pollute the skies...which is why you don't see that thick brown layer on the horizon...taxes are the reason you don't see trash and broken-down cars all on the side of the freeway...why you don't have toll booths/roads...etc....Dems do not own any oil refineries...they don't open or close them...whether they are or not...plays on the gas prices...so I hope I answered your false accusations.... |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 10:02:37 GMT -8
Yes, "A" is true--however, that has created basically a closed system, preventing California from getting gasoline from any other states (California ships gas to other states, but the pipelines only go one way). Only California refineries can make the special blend that this state requires, which drives up prices. When refineries go off-line or close (as is happening with the Phillips 66 refinery in Carson, closing by the end of next year), prices will go up. And if you think Newsom's hair-brained idea to require refineries to maintain a minimum inventory of gas (will there be separate inventories of winter and summer blend gas?) will keep prices stable--he has you fooled. Regarding "B", 2 years ago, this state allegedly had a $100 billion surplus, and even with the surplus, road monies were used for other things. This budget year, the DEFICIT is estimated to be as high as $73 billion, with preliminary estimates the nest 3 years hovering around a $30 billion deficit for each year. Most of these problems have been created by politicians in Sacramento, especially in the last 20-30 years. Well I wouldn't understate the importance of cleaner burning fuel, especially in Southern California. Several cities in the region have bad air quality, which leads to health issues like greater incidences of asthma, cancer, and infant mortality. We definitely need to work on the refinery issue. Everyone in this country is paying less for gas then the actual societal costs of smog health effects and carbon emission global warming associated with gasoline vehicles. The gas tax rates do not adequately compensate for these societal ills of gasoline vehicles. I am not understating the importance of cleaner burning gas, but many of the top polluted cities in California and the West also have geographic issues which can multiply the pollution issues. The state won't allow any new refineries, and there hasn't been a new refinery built in this state for over 50 years. Your last paragraph shows you are one who wants to raise gas taxes even more. You have many friends in Sacramento. |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 10:11:16 GMT -8
Answer the question, why are democrats ripping us off? Well...first you have to prove that "democrats" are ripping us off...you certainly made the accusation...plucked some cherry-picked gas prices...that nobody on this board is paying...but...you certainly have not made the case that democrats are responsible...actually...there are a myriad of reasons why we pay higher prices: Here’s Why Gas Always Costs More in California"The current average gas price in the US is $3.10. In California, it’s $4.49, according to AAA. That’s not an anomaly — Californians consistently pay more for gas than the rest of the country. A confluence of factors join together to increase the price of gas in The Golden State, including environmental restrictions, higher taxes and a shrinking number of regional refineries. One of the more notable factors is that the state now actually burns the cleanest gas in the world, according to Severin Borenstein, faculty director of the energy institute at the University of California Berkeley’s Haas School of Business." "Due to a carve-out in the 1970 US Clean Air Act, California is the only US state that can set stricter emissions standards than the federal government." www.cnn.com/2024/01/27/business/why-does-gas-cost-more-in-california/index.html#:~:text=That%27s%20not%20an%20anomaly%20%E2%80%94%20Californians,shrinking%20number%20of%20regional%20refineries. CA has approx 31.3 million autos...Dems made sure their emissions do not pollute the skies...which is why you don't see that thick brown layer on the horizon...taxes are the reason you don't see trash and broken-down cars all on the side of the freeway...why you don't have toll booths/roads...etc....Dems do not own any oil refineries...they don't open or close them...whether they are or not...plays on the gas prices...so I hope I answered your false accusations.... And yet, 6 of the top 8 most polluted areas (by ozone), including the top 4 in the country, are in California. But admittedly, the air is better than it was 40-60 years ago. By far. |
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Oct 21, 2024 14:15:19 GMT -8
Major gasoline brand by me is $4.09 per gallon. I live in King County which has the highest county gasoline tax in the country.
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 14:29:08 GMT -8
Major gasoline brand by me is $4.09 per gallon. I live in King County which has the highest county gasoline tax in the country. 55 cents cheaper than the average California price, but still over 90 cents higher than the national average. |
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Oct 21, 2024 15:19:20 GMT -8
Major gasoline brand by me is $4.09 per gallon. I live in King County which has the highest county gasoline tax in the country. 55 cents cheaper than the average California price, but still over 90 cents higher than the national average. If you are in eastern WA you can find gas that is 50-60 cents a gallon cheaper. It's all about the taxes. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 21, 2024 15:19:54 GMT -8
Major gasoline brand by me is $4.09 per gallon. I live in King County which has the highest county gasoline tax in the country. 55 cents cheaper than the average California price, but still over 90 cents higher than the national average. California will always be higher than the national average. Always. |
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 21, 2024 16:09:11 GMT -8
Well I wouldn't understate the importance of cleaner burning fuel, especially in Southern California. Several cities in the region have bad air quality, which leads to health issues like greater incidences of asthma, cancer, and infant mortality. We definitely need to work on the refinery issue. Everyone in this country is paying less for gas then the actual societal costs of smog health effects and carbon emission global warming associated with gasoline vehicles. The gas tax rates do not adequately compensate for these societal ills of gasoline vehicles. I am not understating the importance of cleaner burning gas, but many of the top polluted cities in California and the West also have geographic issues which can multiply the pollution issues. The state won't allow any new refineries, and there hasn't been a new refinery built in this state for over 50 years. Your last paragraph shows you are one who wants to raise gas taxes even more. You have many friends in Sacramento. No, I don't want to raise gas taxes. My car gets 32 mpg. I would like to see more affordable hybrids and electric vehicles, and gas burning cars with better mpg. Basically, I would like to solve the refinery issue by making gas cars more efficient, reducing the demand for gasoline. |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 16:16:57 GMT -8
55 cents cheaper than the average California price, but still over 90 cents higher than the national average. If you are in eastern WA you can find gas that is 50-60 cents a gallon cheaper. It's all about the taxes. It's not just taxes, but where you are when you buy it. Average price of gas in San Diego today is $4.66, but places in the city have it at $4.09 or even lower. |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 16:21:25 GMT -8
55 cents cheaper than the average California price, but still over 90 cents higher than the national average. California will always be higher than the national average. Always. And it always will be, thanks to the politicians in Sacramento. It wasn't always that way. |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 16:23:34 GMT -8
I am not understating the importance of cleaner burning gas, but many of the top polluted cities in California and the West also have geographic issues which can multiply the pollution issues. The state won't allow any new refineries, and there hasn't been a new refinery built in this state for over 50 years. Your last paragraph shows you are one who wants to raise gas taxes even more. You have many friends in Sacramento. No, I don't want to raise gas taxes. My car gets 32 mpg. I would like to see more affordable hybrids and electric vehicles, and gas burning cars with better mpg. Basically, I would like to solve the refinery issue by making gas cars more efficient, reducing the demand for gasoline. I have considered buying a hybrid as my next vehicle, but I still have more homework to do regarding this issue. I drove one once on a long weekend, and was surprised at the improved mileage. I am not at all interested in an EV. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 21, 2024 16:34:44 GMT -8
California will always be higher than the national average. Always. And it always will be, thanks to the politicians in Sacramento. It wasn't always that way. Yeah, I think this ignores way too much. |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 16:36:15 GMT -8
And it always will be, thanks to the politicians in Sacramento. It wasn't always that way. Yeah, I think this ignores way too much. I don't think it ignores anything. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 21, 2024 16:39:40 GMT -8
Yeah, I think this ignores way too much. I don't think it ignores anything. Of course. |
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Post by uwphoto on Oct 21, 2024 17:59:28 GMT -8
Yeah, I think this ignores way too much. I don't think it ignores anything. ya..you try governing California, with all the competing interests. Signs on the 5.."Stop sending our water to the sea" "Newsome is stealing your water". This is from big Agribusiness, like just almonds using 35 X the water of Sacramento each year...and oh ya..80% exports of the product. Big Ag is the Republican party. Lying to the public. I'm beginning to believe that everything is a lie....cause people are just too f****** stupid to do any critical thinking. |
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Oct 21, 2024 19:38:38 GMT -8
If you are in eastern WA you can find gas that is 50-60 cents a gallon cheaper. It's all about the taxes. It's not just taxes, but where you are when you buy it. Average price of gas in San Diego today is $4.66, but places in the city have it at $4.09 or even lower. You don't get it, once you drive east out of King County gas is cheaper due to county taxes!! |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 21:28:34 GMT -8
I don't think it ignores anything. ya..you try governing California, with all the competing interests. Signs on the 5.."Stop sending our water to the sea" "Newsome is stealing your water". This is from big Agribusiness, like just almonds using 35 X the water of Sacramento each year...and oh ya..80% exports of the product. Big Ag is the Republican party. Lying to the public. I'm beginning to believe that everything is a lie....cause people are just too f****** stupid to do any critical thinking. Do they have water meters in Sacramento yet? |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 21, 2024 21:29:34 GMT -8
It's not just taxes, but where you are when you buy it. Average price of gas in San Diego today is $4.66, but places in the city have it at $4.09 or even lower. You don't get it, once you drive east out of King County gas is cheaper due to county taxes!! I get it. It isn't that difficult. |
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