|
|
Post by laaztec on Sept 10, 2024 20:58:35 GMT -8
Ziegler said on Jon and Jim today that there was never an official offer from the Big 12.
He also said he thinks WSU and OSU will stay independent and that MW will remain the same. He was correct about the PAC 12 falling apart so he has a track record of being correct.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 11, 2024 1:35:37 GMT -8
Ziegler said on Jon and Jim today that there was never an official offer from the Big 12. He also said he thinks WSU and OSU will stay independent and that MW will remain the same. He was correct about the PAC 12 falling apart so he has a track record of being correct. If OSU and WSU stay independent they have to give most of the PAC money to the former members. That would be stupid. Financially, they're better off rebuilding the conference. |
|
|
|
Post by MontezumasRevenge on Sept 11, 2024 1:38:38 GMT -8
I doubt anyone thinks it's a good idea - but as a G5 program you only get so many bites at the apple. If Yormark could have secured a full share for us, then I'm guessing he would have preferred that as well, but that's up to his television partners. Why did Oregon and Washington take a half share to get into the Big 10? Why did Cal and Stanford take partial shares (and in the case of SMU, even no shares) to get into the ACC? Why would OSU and WSU take a half share to join the B12 if offered today?Panic, though I think Washington was quietly sabotaging the PAC media deal when Apple came into play. But what exactly were they panicking over? That's the crux of the issue. And what you refer to as a panic move those schools would (and actually did, based on the previously posted article below) refer to as contingency planning. Now that it's more widely accepted that a B12 offer was actually there, it seems like a good time to ask: what was our contingency plan to ensure we got out of the MWC and into one of the power conferences? Did we actually have one beyond just waiting until the dust settled on the Pac12 contract, and then only at that point would we go back to the B12 if things didn't work out? As also pointed out in the article, it wasn't just Oregon/Washington that was doing contingency planning behind the scenes, but given how quickly the remaining four corner schools announced they were leaving for the B12, it was evident "they had obviously done some legwork" as well. Meanwhile, we're sitting by the phone like chumps waiting for a call that never comes. Our administration got played bad. www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/inside-the-frantic-final-days-of-the-pac-12/ |
|
|
|
Post by Section T(urn Up) on Sept 11, 2024 6:38:56 GMT -8
Panic, though I think Washington was quietly sabotaging the PAC media deal when Apple came into play. But what exactly were they panicking over? That's the crux of the issue. And what you refer to as a panic move those schools would (and actually did, based on the previously posted article below) refer to as contingency planning. Now that it's more widely accepted that a B12 offer was actually there, it seems like a good time to ask: what was our contingency plan to ensure we got out of the MWC and into one of the power conferences? Did we actually have one beyond just waiting until the dust settled on the Pac12 contract, and then only at that point would we go back to the B12 if things didn't work out? As also pointed out in the article, it wasn't just Oregon/Washington that was doing contingency planning behind the scenes, but given how quickly the remaining four corner schools announced they were leaving for the B12, it was evident "they had obviously done some legwork" as well. Meanwhile, we're sitting by the phone like chumps waiting for a call that never comes. Our administration got played bad. www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/inside-the-frantic-final-days-of-the-pac-12/In the absolute best case scenario, SDSU had a half share offer from the Big XII and a near certain full share offer from the PAC 12 waiting in the wings. SDSU wasn’t in a position to have contingency plans the way Oregon and Washington were. They could make decisions with perfect information (ie wait and see what the PAC offer was and then compare to a potential deal with the Big Ten). It’s fair to eulogize this and conduct some investigation to determine what the actual decision was, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume Wicker was operating with perfect information like we are in hindsight. The PAC blowing up like it did was a somewhere between improbable and nearing zero probability. In retrospect it’s easy to say it was more vulnerable than the B12 but that’s like playing poker with the cards showing and knowledge of future events. |
|
|
|
Post by panammaniac on Sept 11, 2024 6:40:08 GMT -8
Ziegler said on Jon and Jim today that there was never an official offer from the Big 12. He also said he thinks WSU and OSU will stay independent and that MW will remain the same. He was correct about the PAC 12 falling apart so he has a track record of being correct. If OSU and WSU stay independent they have to give most of the PAC money to the former members. That would be stupid. Financially, they're better off rebuilding the conference. Neither WSU nor OSU would last long as an independent. The only school that really works well for is Notre Dame. WSU especially - they would never get anybody of value to make the trip to Pullman for a non-conference game. Their home schedule would consist of an FCS school, maybe a couple CUSA schools, and maybe a couple bottom of the barrel MWC and AAC schools. They’d have to pay big money to get a home game with anybody halfway good, and with no conference media contract and no CFP distributions there’s no money in the coffers to make those big payments. It’s a downward spiral. NMSU held on as an Indy for 10 years until a spot opened up for us in CUSA, but we had a couple things going for us. One of them was at the time we were bad enough at football that P5 schools would pay us $2 million for away games, and we’d easily get 3 of those a year. We also have our own student run TV production crew that somehow managed to get games distributed on various cable and streaming networks during our Indy years. P5 schools aren’t going to be paying big money for home games with WSU or OSU. They want “guaranteed wins” for that big money (although ask Notre Dame and Auburn about how guaranteed those wins really are.) As an independent there are no bowl affiliations and no seats at the CFP table. You have to buy all of your home games. You have no media contract other than what you’re able to negotiate for yourself. You get no conference bowl or CFP distributions. You have no “regular” teams that you play every year. It’s not an enjoyable place to be at all, for the fans or for the program in general. |
|
|
|
Post by gentlesaztec on Sept 11, 2024 7:52:41 GMT -8
The Pac2 has 3 options. Option 1 is to go independent which is a pathway to mediocre. Not enough quality teams to play each year. Option 2 is to go to a Pac8 taking 4 MW teams plus 2 others or 6 MW schools. It would be cheaper for them to take 4 MW and probably 2 Texas teams or 3 MW and 3 Texas teams. Option 3 is to bring in all the MW teams and keep all the money. Option 1 and 3 guarantees they will be G-5, and option 2 the possibility of being P-4.
|
|
|
|
Post by laaztec on Sept 11, 2024 8:04:45 GMT -8
Ziegler said on Jon and Jim today that there was never an official offer from the Big 12. He also said he thinks WSU and OSU will stay independent and that MW will remain the same. He was correct about the PAC 12 falling apart so he has a track record of being correct. Here’s the link to the interview. podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jon-and-jim/id1604663876?i=1000669088744 |
|
|
|
Post by hoobs on Sept 11, 2024 8:16:19 GMT -8
I can't see any world in which OSU & WSU staying independent is an option. As Erik noted, the understanding is that if the PAC is not re-formed, the "war chest" of leftover Pac12 money has to be redistributed to the original schools and cannot be kept by OSU & WSU. Thus, they *have* to invite at least 6 schools to join them in a 'new-PAC'.
|
|
|
|
Post by FULL_MONTY on Sept 11, 2024 8:21:35 GMT -8
I can't see any world in which OSU & WSU staying independent is an option. As Erik noted, the understanding is that if the PAC is not re-formed, the "war chest" of leftover Pac12 money has to be redistributed to the original schools and cannot be kept by OSU & WSU. Thus, they *have* to invite at least 6 schools to join them in a 'new-PAC'. If they spend the $65M or have it revert back to the other schools, they still net $0. The P2 will do what ever makes $ sense. If they make more as an independent, that is what they will do. |
|
|
|
Post by docmm on Sept 11, 2024 8:43:42 GMT -8
I think the PAC2 have about $150,000,000 in assets now so $65M wouldn't zero them out.
|
|
|
|
Post by RiffelBooks on Sept 11, 2024 9:12:04 GMT -8
Remember that Chad Bunn's alma mater was independent in football for more than a decade. The only reason it worked for them was that they were arm-in-arm with ESPN. They still leapt at the first chance to join a power conference. OSU/WSU's only lifeline is the CW. I see reforming the Pac as the only real option for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by laaztec on Sept 11, 2024 9:23:39 GMT -8
Remember that Chad Bunn's alma mater was independent in football for more than a decade. The only reason it worked for them was that they were arm-in-arm with ESPN. They still leapt at the first chance to join a power conference. OSU/WSU's only lifeline is the CW. I see reforming the Pac as the only real option for them. Agree. |
|
|
|
Post by panammaniac on Sept 11, 2024 9:52:49 GMT -8
The Pac2 has 3 options. Option 1 is to go independent which is a pathway to mediocre. Not enough quality teams to play each year. Option 2 is to go to a Pac8 taking 4 MW teams plus 2 others or 6 MW schools. It would be cheaper for them to take 4 MW and probably 2 Texas teams or 3 MW and 3 Texas teams. Option 3 is to bring in all the MW teams and keep all the money. Option 1 and 3 guarantees they will be G-5, and option 2 the possibility of being P-4. They won't get any Texas schools. I would bet several paychecks on that. The top tier Texas schools are in P4 conferences. The second tier Texas schools - Rice, UTSA, North Texas, are in the AAC which has a media deal a little north of $7 million per school. It is highly doubtful that a rebuilt PAC would be able to top that. Texas State is in the Sun Belt. They COULD potentially be a target. The SBC media deal is around $2 million per school, but how much does Texas State move the needle? They only thing they really accomplish is getting into the Texas market, and Texas State is far from being one of the most desirable schools in the state to move the TV needle. The only other FBS school in Texas is UTEP and they won't do anything for the conference either, short of a built-in tie to the Sun Bowl. Bottom line is it's highly doubtful they'll get any AAC schools to make the jump. We've seen crazier things happen in recent history, but in reality their only real options are to take all of the MWC and become the PAC 14, or half of the MWC to become the PAC 8. Neither case is going to get them a sniff of power conference status. The P4 has already slammed that door shut. There's one longshot possibility that I'd call a HUGE stretch. Say they pick up Gonzaga and retain Hawaii for FB only. I'm sure they could top whatever Gonzaga's media deal is, and then maybe with Gonzaga on board they could convince a couple schools like Memphis/Tulsa (and maybe a Texas school or two) to join from the AAC to form a pretty solid G5 basketball conference. It's difficult for me to envision Gonzaga leaving their peer schools in the WCC, but again, stranger things have happened recently. |
|
|
|
Post by Boise Aztec on Sept 11, 2024 9:54:19 GMT -8
Wait, did Wicker turn down a 1/2 share to join the Big 12? Wow, that’s a fire able offense. I told you guys all along that there was a B12 deal in place and that State told them no… nothing new here… |
|
|
|
Post by Boise Aztec on Sept 11, 2024 10:13:40 GMT -8
Ziegler said on Jon and Jim today that there was never an official offer from the Big 12. He also said he thinks WSU and OSU will stay independent and that MW will remain the same. He was correct about the PAC 12 falling apart so he has a track record of being correct. He is wrong about the offer… |
|
|
|
Post by AZTEC4LIFE1992 on Sept 11, 2024 13:53:55 GMT -8
Interesting aspect to the article was Gloria’s comment that they are working on unequal revenue distribution for NCAAT credits and CFP to keep top half of the conference.
What percentage of the NCAAT credits would it take to make staying in this flea bitten conference worth it?
|
|
|
|
Post by zurac315 on Sept 11, 2024 14:05:25 GMT -8
Interesting aspect to the article was Gloria’s comment that they are working on unequal revenue distribution for NCAAT credits and CFP to keep top half of the conference. What percentage of the NCAAT credits would it take to make staying in this flea bitten conference worth it? 100% for all time. That might be enough but I doubt it. |
|
|
|
Post by Boise Aztec on Sept 11, 2024 14:07:07 GMT -8
Interesting aspect to the article was Gloria’s comment that they are working on unequal revenue distribution for NCAAT credits and CFP to keep top half of the conference. What percentage of the NCAAT credits would it take to make staying in this flea bitten conference worth it? Hearing that the current proposal is all initial credits from making the tournament are shared equally, then all other credits earned are kept by the earning school or at least the vast majority. The CFP monies are way behind |
|
|
|
Post by AZTEC4LIFE1992 on Sept 11, 2024 14:18:58 GMT -8
Interesting aspect to the article was Gloria’s comment that they are working on unequal revenue distribution for NCAAT credits and CFP to keep top half of the conference. What percentage of the NCAAT credits would it take to make staying in this flea bitten conference worth it? Hearing that the current proposal is all initial credits from making the tournament are shared equally, then all other credits earned are kept by the earning school or at least the vast majority. The CFP monies are way behind Soo most of the mwc teams that go 1 and don’t would get zero benefit. All performance based They also mentioned a budget floor so that the lower half of the conference is forced to invest in their athletic departments. We just need out of here |
|
|
|
Post by zurac315 on Sept 11, 2024 15:14:58 GMT -8
Thank you JD Wicker. We may never get another chance.
|
|
