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Post by johneaztec on Jul 28, 2024 14:32:07 GMT -8
What does that have to do with it? It wasn't about skin color for me. Of course not, you went with the candidate that aligned with your beliefs. Culture is part of that. Empowerment is part of that. Asking people to vote opposite of their cultural beliefs is strange. It wasn't about my cultural beliefs. It was about change at the time. Did you watch the video? The girl said that she was going to going to vote for Harris solely because she's a black woman. A black man promptly roasted her for a variety of reasons of why that would be ridiculous. Vote for her for her policies, etc.... |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 28, 2024 14:34:30 GMT -8
Of course not, you went with the candidate that aligned with your beliefs. Culture is part of that. Empowerment is part of that. Asking people to vote opposite of their cultural beliefs is strange. It wasn't about my cultural beliefs. It was about change at the time. Did you watch the video? The girl said that she was going to going to vote for Harris solely because she's a black woman. A black man promptly roasted her for a variety of reasons of why that would be ridiculous. Vote for her for her policies, etc.... That's called "cultural belief." It's different when you don't understand an opposing culture. It's one reason why every president prior to Obama was the same skin tone. There are a ton of MAGA folks who are voting for Trump for the same exact reason. People feel empowered when someone they identify culturally with is elevated to a position of power after centuries of oppression. |
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Post by aztecmusician on Jul 28, 2024 14:43:55 GMT -8
Kamala is a very mediocre politician AND the states which are going to decide the Electoral College (Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio) don’t like her.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 28, 2024 14:47:39 GMT -8
Kamala is a very mediocre politician AND the states which are going to decide the Electoral College (Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio) don’t like her. The polls you were raving about just a couple days ago would indicate the opposite. Ohio is a safe Rephblican state. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 28, 2024 15:25:38 GMT -8
It wasn't about my cultural beliefs. It was about change at the time. Did you watch the video? The girl said that she was going to going to vote for Harris solely because she's a black woman. A black man promptly roasted her for a variety of reasons of why that would be ridiculous. Vote for her for her policies, etc.... That's called "cultural belief." It's different when you don't understand an opposing culture. It's one reason why every president prior to Obama was the same skin tone. There are a ton of MAGA folks who are voting for Trump for the same exact reason. People feel empowered when someone they identify culturally with is elevated to a position of power after centuries of oppression. As I've stated many times before, it was about getting a non politician in there. That's a far cry from voting for someome because of their skin color. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 28, 2024 15:28:53 GMT -8
That's called "cultural belief." It's different when you don't understand an opposing culture. It's one reason why every president prior to Obama was the same skin tone. There are a ton of MAGA folks who are voting for Trump for the same exact reason. People feel empowered when someone they identify culturally with is elevated to a position of power after centuries of oppression. As I've stated many times before, it was about getting a non politician in there. That's a far cry from voting for someome because of their skin color. Cultural belief. |
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Post by azson on Jul 29, 2024 10:18:01 GMT -8
That and the timing of the Comey letter, yes.
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
AzWm
They're not mutually exclusive. Both you and Ryan are correct IMHO. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 29, 2024 10:19:30 GMT -8
I think there is a different explanation for Trump's win. In terms of how she campaigned, Hillary essentially ignored several of the upper mid-west states that Trump won. She thought they were safely in the Democratic column.
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
AzWm
They're not mutually exclusive. Both you and Ryan are correct IMHO. The difference being I think she wins without Comey being involved at all. |
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Post by azson on Jul 29, 2024 10:25:57 GMT -8
They're not mutually exclusive. Both you and Ryan are correct IMHO. The difference being I think she wins without Comey being involved at all. Perhaps. But much like a favored teams' sports' fans whining about refs after a loss, it should never have been close enough for the Comey letter to make a difference. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 29, 2024 10:28:49 GMT -8
The difference being I think she wins without Comey being involved at all. Perhaps. But much like a favored teams' sports' fans whining about refs after a loss, it should never have been close enough for the Comey letter to make s difference. Nate Silver said he estimated the letter cost her 3+ points in the polls. That's a massive shift with little time before the election. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 29, 2024 11:29:24 GMT -8
Ryan, you seem to ignore one important point I made regarding Trump's win in 2016. I would like to know what you think of said point.
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
AzWm
I didn't ignore it, that's your specialty.
But forgive me for delving into that issue. What I want to discuss is what I quoted in my last post. To wit:
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
Why did so many Americans vote for Trump? Was Hillary right in accusing half the Trump voters of being, in essence, Nazis, Fascists, White Supremacists, etc.? Or did those voters finally figure out that the changes in the USA, especially economically, have resulted in much worse outcomes for them? Less well-educated Americans have a much tougher time achieving membership in the economic middle class. And now many college graduates face similar hurdles. It may (or may not) be simplistic to say that the growing Chinese economic class have achieved their status on the backs of millions of Americans. It's hard, however, to say that, to a certain extent, this has not been true.
I have said that this question put me in a quandary since I believe in free trade.
Anyway, all this adds up to one conclusion. Namely, as distasteful as Trump is in so many ways, there were reasons why so many voted for Trump besides being Nazis, Fascists, etc . The result, for me, is that I forsee troubled times ahead for this country regardless of which party wins in November.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 29, 2024 11:32:52 GMT -8
The difference being I think she wins without Comey being involved at all. Perhaps. But much like a favored teams' sports' fans whining about refs after a loss, it should never have been close enough for the Comey letter to make a difference.
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 29, 2024 11:38:10 GMT -8
I didn't ignore it, that's your specialty.
But forgive me for delving into that issue. What I want to discuss is what I quoted in my last post. To wit:
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
Why did so many Americans vote for Trump? Was Hillary right in accusing half the Trump voters of being, in essence, Nazis, Fascists, White Supremacists, etc.? Or did those voters finally figure out that the changes in the USA, especially economically, have resulted in much worse outcomes for them? Less well-educated Americans have a much tougher time achieving membership in the economic middle class. And now many college graduates face similar hurdles. It may (or may not) be simplistic to say that the growing Chinese economic class have achieved their status on the backs of millions of Americans. It's hard, however, to say that, to a certain extent, this has not been true.
I have said that this question put me in a quandary since I believe in free trade.
Anyway, all this adds up to one conclusion. Namely, as distasteful as Trump is in so many ways, there were reasons why so many voted for Trump besides being Nazis, Fascists, etc . The result, for me, is that I forsee troubled times ahead for this country regardless of which party wins in November.
AzWm
Again, didn't ignore it. You can keep making excuses for Trump, though. Why did people vote for Trump? We live in a two party system...it's going to happen by default. Earth-shattering stuff, I know. The question is why anyone would vote for him NOW. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jul 29, 2024 11:53:50 GMT -8
Actually, you did ignore this part of my post. Forgive me if I pull the age card here (I was about 47 years old when you were born). By that time, I had rejected both the Democrats and the Republicans in favor of the Libertarian party. My disagreement with the Democrats has only become more pronounced since then. What has really changed, in my opinion, is what has happened to the GOP. The rise of Trump has been a disaster for that party. More to the point, the takeover of the GOP has been a disaster for the politics of the USA. Trump populism is bad for the country.
But forgive me for delving into that issue. What I want to discuss is what I quoted in my last post. To wit:
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
Why did so many Americans vote for Trump? Was Hillary right in accusing half the Trump voters of being, in essence, Nazis, Fascists, White Supremacists, etc.? Or did those voters finally figure out that the changes in the USA, especially economically, have resulted in much worse outcomes for them? Less well-educated Americans have a much tougher time achieving membership in the economic middle class. And now many college graduates face similar hurdles. It may (or may not) be simplistic to say that the growing Chinese economic class have achieved their status on the backs of millions of Americans. It's hard, however, to say that, to a certain extent, this has not been true.
I have said that this question put me in a quandary since I believe in free trade.
Anyway, all this adds up to one conclusion. Namely, as distasteful as Trump is in so many ways, there were reasons why so many voted for Trump besides being Nazis, Fascists, etc . The result, for me, is that I forsee troubled times ahead for this country regardless of which party wins in November.
AzWm
Again, didn't ignore it. You can keep making excuses for Trump, though. Why did people vote for Trump? We live in a two party system...it's going to happen by default. Earth-shattering stuff, I know. The question is why anyone would vote for him NOW. Cause "daddy" says he will take care of them, and make it 1950 again. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 29, 2024 12:19:31 GMT -8
I didn't ignore it, that's your specialty.
But forgive me for delving into that issue. What I want to discuss is what I quoted in my last post. To wit:
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
Why did so many Americans vote for Trump? Was Hillary right in accusing half the Trump voters of being, in essence, Nazis, Fascists, White Supremacists, etc.? Or did those voters finally figure out that the changes in the USA, especially economically, have resulted in much worse outcomes for them? Less well-educated Americans have a much tougher time achieving membership in the economic middle class. And now many college graduates face similar hurdles. It may (or may not) be simplistic to say that the growing Chinese economic class have achieved their status on the backs of millions of Americans. It's hard, however, to say that, to a certain extent, this has not been true.
I have said that this question put me in a quandary since I believe in free trade.
Anyway, all this adds up to one conclusion. Namely, as distasteful as Trump is in so many ways, there were reasons why so many voted for Trump besides being Nazis, Fascists, etc . The result, for me, is that I forsee troubled times ahead for this country regardless of which party wins in November.
AzWm
Trying to overturn an election > Jobs moving to China, just FYI. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jul 29, 2024 13:14:24 GMT -8
I didn't ignore it, that's your specialty.
But forgive me for delving into that issue. What I want to discuss is what I quoted in my last post. To wit:
I would also mention that many voters were pretty unhappy that so many manufacturing jobs have gone to China. This is a touchy issue with me, since I believe in free trade. I am a lot older than you (a lot older!). I can remember when it was possible for someone to graduate from high school, get a union job, and pretty soon buy a house. No longer.
The changes in our economy I refer to are the result of actions taken by both parties. Trump gave the promise of turning the economy around. I don't say that he could really do that, only that millions of blue-collar workers believed that he could.
One result of Trump's takeover is that the GOP is now populist rather than conservative.
Why did so many Americans vote for Trump? Was Hillary right in accusing half the Trump voters of being, in essence, Nazis, Fascists, White Supremacists, etc.? Or did those voters finally figure out that the changes in the USA, especially economically, have resulted in much worse outcomes for them? Less well-educated Americans have a much tougher time achieving membership in the economic middle class. And now many college graduates face similar hurdles. It may (or may not) be simplistic to say that the growing Chinese economic class have achieved their status on the backs of millions of Americans. It's hard, however, to say that, to a certain extent, this has not been true.
I have said that this question put me in a quandary since I believe in free trade.
Anyway, all this adds up to one conclusion. Namely, as distasteful as Trump is in so many ways, there were reasons why so many voted for Trump besides being Nazis, Fascists, etc . The result, for me, is that I forsee troubled times ahead for this country regardless of which party wins in November.
AzWm
"growing Chinese economic class have achieved their status on the backs of millions of Americans". Poor Americans! Funny, I don't remember Americans going to Walmart complaining when they were buying cheap furniture, electronics and even 100% of the frozen sea food coming from China! Frozen sea food like catfish, shrimp and tilapia grown in toxic waste and sewage....cause those animals can live in it. I spent time in Kodiak, Alaska. Locals (most) couldn't wait until Walmart came to town with their cheap Chinese goods. Say goodbye to the Mom n Pop stores locally when that happened. William, don't say that most Americans didn't have a hand in it! |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 29, 2024 16:59:39 GMT -8
After seeing the enthusiasm and momentum for the movement continue to grow, combined with the staleness of the Trump campaign and the lack of momentum there...I'm going to predict Kamala Harris wins the presidency.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 29, 2024 17:06:23 GMT -8
After seeing the enthusiasm and momentum for the movement continue to grow, combined with the staleness of the Trump campaign and the lack of momentum there...I'm going to predict Kamala Harris wins the presidency. This early? |
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 29, 2024 17:09:43 GMT -8
After seeing the enthusiasm and momentum for the movement continue to grow, combined with the staleness of the Trump campaign and the lack of momentum there...I'm going to predict Kamala Harris wins the presidency. This early? There's barely three months left. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jul 29, 2024 17:09:47 GMT -8
After seeing the enthusiasm and momentum for the movement continue to grow, combined with the staleness of the Trump campaign and the lack of momentum there...I'm going to predict Kamala Harris wins the presidency. This early? well..I'm hoping so. In my day, referring to a woman as a "bum" and "garbage" was disqualifying as a human. |
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