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Post by bnastyaztecs on Jul 25, 2024 9:54:45 GMT -8
Semantics. For him to say ANYTHING on the record, much less to Congress, is a big deal. As a Trump appointee? Even bigger. He hasn't released the medical records because he can't use the illusion afterwards and he needs to control the narrative to continue to fundraise. "I took a bullet for you, I took a bullet for democracy..." It's not semantics. Using the words "considerable doubt" versus "questions" is a big difference. You know that. A guy in his position must question it, because there's been no official report of it. I'm wondering where he thinks the shrapnel may have come from. I don't think they asked him that. The teleprompters seemed to intact, so where would shrapnel come from? I agree that Trump is the type of guy that would want to control the narrative. When one says " there's some questions about whether"...anything after that means doubt...doubt he was hit by shrapnel...doubt hit by a bullet...and if there is doubt about those two things...then it means the "injury" was most likey caused by other things/ways...circumstances...conclusions Wray just can't come right out and say for political reasons/ramifications...I mean I'm sure one way or the other...Wray knows the medical report...and he's calling bulltwink in diplomatic vernacular....
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 25, 2024 10:01:35 GMT -8
Ronny's statement didn't help matters, either. Just repeated questions with questions.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 26, 2024 11:50:55 GMT -8
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Post by bnastyaztecs on Jul 26, 2024 12:48:05 GMT -8
He'll claim he had plastic surgery..."By the best doctors"...that's why you can't see it...unless you get really...really...close.....
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 26, 2024 21:50:20 GMT -8
This dispute over whether Trump was hit by a bullet or shrapnel is just nonsense. The important fact is that someone came very close to killing the former President. Was it a bullet? I think it was, but so what? Do you not think that many soldiers were killed by shrapnel hits to some vital parts of their bodies? Like maybe their heads?!
It appears to me that the teleprompters were intact after Trump's wound. So, if it was shrapnel, where did the shrapnel come from?
But, as I said, this is a stupid discussion. Here as the points which matter. Did someone try to kill Trump? Yes. Did the assassin come close to succeeding in his effort? Yes. Both points are important irrespective of what one thinks of Donald Trump.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 26, 2024 21:55:38 GMT -8
Hopefully this act leads to more sensible gun reform and changes to interagency protocols. I do not want to delve into the gun question too deeply, but I must ask you for your opinion on a couple of things. How do you define sensible gun reform? Do you favor making the ownership of a firearm illegal?
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 26, 2024 21:59:29 GMT -8
This dispute over whether Trump was hit by a bullet or shrapnel is just nonsense. The important fact is that someone came very close to killing the former President. Was it a bullet? I think it was, but so what? Do you not think that many soldiers were killed by shrapnel hits to some vital parts of their bodies? Like maybe their heads?!
It appears to me that the teleprompters were intact after Trump's wound. So, if it was shrapnel, where did the shrapnel come from?
But, as I said, this is a stupid discussion. Here as the points which matter. Did someone try to kill Trump? Yes. Did the assassin come close to succeeding in his effort? Yes. Both points are important irrespective of what one thinks of Donald Trump.
AzWm
Not nonsense at all. But then again, you whitewash everything claiming Trump isn't a threat to democracy. As has been said, it goes towards his credibility, shapes election narratives and illustrates a pattern of behavior that will once again stoke division among people in this country. I don't want a pathological, unstable person in the most powerful office on Earth. That person has access to classified intelligence briefings, nuclear launch codes and command of the most powerful military in the world. What you claim is "all that matters" is one piece of a larger puzzle.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 26, 2024 22:01:13 GMT -8
Hopefully this act leads to more sensible gun reform and changes to interagency protocols. I do not want to delve into the gun question too deeply, but I must ask you for your opinion on a couple of things. How do you define sensible gun reform? Do you favor making the ownership of a firearm illegal?
AzWm
What a silly question. No, I don't believe in the abolishing of the Constitution. Sensible gun reform = Expanded background checks, waiting lists, mental health safeguards, restrictions on assault weapons, etc. We have a gun culture problem in the United States and it's got to end.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 26, 2024 22:18:54 GMT -8
This dispute over whether Trump was hit by a bullet or shrapnel is just nonsense. The important fact is that someone came very close to killing the former President. Was it a bullet? I think it was, but so what? Do you not think that many soldiers were killed by shrapnel hits to some vital parts of their bodies? Like maybe their heads?!
It appears to me that the teleprompters were intact after Trump's wound. So, if it was shrapnel, where did the shrapnel come from?
But, as I said, this is a stupid discussion. Here as the points which matter. Did someone try to kill Trump? Yes. Did the assassin come close to succeeding in his effort? Yes. Both points are important irrespective of what one thinks of Donald Trump.
AzWm
You immediately blamed the "left" for their rhetoric as the cause for this event. You've never attempted to clarify that, knowing the shooter was a registered Republican. You wave your hands at Trump's rhetoric, casting it aside as hyperbole, jokes, unserious, impossible, etc. That's pretty telling, that you still haven't confronted that idea. We don't have Trump's medical records. Trump has yet to be interviewed by the FBI. All we have is Trump's post on Truth Social and the words of a disgraced, no longer licensed doctor with a drug issue. Forgive me if I'm not willing to just take the word of a group of sycophants at face value while they fundraise off the event.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 26, 2024 23:31:59 GMT -8
This dispute over whether Trump was hit by a bullet or shrapnel is just nonsense. The important fact is that someone came very close to killing the former President. Was it a bullet? I think it was, but so what? Do you not think that many soldiers were killed by shrapnel hits to some vital parts of their bodies? Like maybe their heads?!
It appears to me that the teleprompters were intact after Trump's wound. So, if it was shrapnel, where did the shrapnel come from?
But, as I said, this is a stupid discussion. Here as the points which matter. Did someone try to kill Trump? Yes. Did the assassin come close to succeeding in his effort? Yes. Both points are important irrespective of what one thinks of Donald Trump.
AzWm
You immediately blamed the "left" for their rhetoric as the cause for this event. You've never attempted to clarify that, knowing the shooter was a registered Republican. You wave your hands at Trump's rhetoric, casting it aside as hyperbole, jokes, unserious, impossible, etc. That's pretty telling, that you still haven't confronted that idea. We don't have Trump's medical records. Trump has yet to be interviewed by the FBI. All we have is Trump's post on Truth Social and the words of a disgraced, no longer licensed doctor with a drug issue. Forgive me if I'm not willing to just take the word of a group of sycophants at face value while they fundraise off the event. apnews.com/article/trump-bullet-shrapnel-ronny-jackson-christopher-wray-cb780b9d1a078f0be4191682e75101cfWell, this is what the FBI is saying now. A bullet.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 26, 2024 23:41:33 GMT -8
You immediately blamed the "left" for their rhetoric as the cause for this event. You've never attempted to clarify that, knowing the shooter was a registered Republican. You wave your hands at Trump's rhetoric, casting it aside as hyperbole, jokes, unserious, impossible, etc. That's pretty telling, that you still haven't confronted that idea. We don't have Trump's medical records. Trump has yet to be interviewed by the FBI. All we have is Trump's post on Truth Social and the words of a disgraced, no longer licensed doctor with a drug issue. Forgive me if I'm not willing to just take the word of a group of sycophants at face value while they fundraise off the event. apnews.com/article/trump-bullet-shrapnel-ronny-jackson-christopher-wray-cb780b9d1a078f0be4191682e75101cfWell, this is what the FBI is saying now. A bullet. No, they said a "bullet or a fragment of a bullet." And that came AFTER Wray testified to Congress that there were questions whether it was a bullet or shrapnel...and the letter is anonymously sourced to the agency, not to Wray himself. It also came on the heels of a ton of criticism, some from Trump himself. Keep in mind, Wray was appointed by Trump. When Trump is interviewed by tbe FBI or releases his medical records, we'll have s story. Until then? Questions remain.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 27, 2024 14:03:05 GMT -8
This dispute over whether Trump was hit by a bullet or shrapnel is just nonsense. The important fact is that someone came very close to killing the former President. Was it a bullet? I think it was, but so what? Do you not think that many soldiers were killed by shrapnel hits to some vital parts of their bodies? Like maybe their heads?!
It appears to me that the teleprompters were intact after Trump's wound. So, if it was shrapnel, where did the shrapnel come from?
But, as I said, this is a stupid discussion. Here as the points which matter. Did someone try to kill Trump? Yes. Did the assassin come close to succeeding in his effort? Yes. Both points are important irrespective of what one thinks of Donald Trump.
AzWm
Not nonsense at all. But then again, you whitewash everything claiming Trump isn't a threat to democracy. As has been said, it goes towards his credibility, shapes election narratives and illustrates a pattern of behavior that will once again stoke division among people in this country. I don't want a pathological, unstable person in the most powerful office on Earth. That person has access to classified intelligence briefings, nuclear launch codes and command of the most powerful military in the world. What you claim is "all that matters" is one piece of a larger puzzle. Wait a minute. Let's get this straight. I suggested that whether Trump was hit by a bullet or by shrapnel is not so important as the fact that someone came close to killing him. Why in god's name do you think that it makes a difference whether he was hit by a bullet or by shrapnel? Please explain.
Whether Trump should be President again is a completely different issue. For me, neither Trump nor Harris will serve this country well. That is why I will vote for the Libertarian candidate for the eleventh time out of the last twelve elections (and for the ninth time in a row).
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 27, 2024 15:07:29 GMT -8
Not nonsense at all. But then again, you whitewash everything claiming Trump isn't a threat to democracy. As has been said, it goes towards his credibility, shapes election narratives and illustrates a pattern of behavior that will once again stoke division among people in this country. I don't want a pathological, unstable person in the most powerful office on Earth. That person has access to classified intelligence briefings, nuclear launch codes and command of the most powerful military in the world. What you claim is "all that matters" is one piece of a larger puzzle. Wait a minute. Let's get this straight. I suggested that whether Trump was hit by a bullet or by shrapnel is not so important as the fact that someone came close to killing him. Why in god's name do you think that it makes a difference whether he was hit by a bullet or by shrapnel? Please explain.
Whether Trump should be President again is a completely different issue. For me, neither Trump nor Harris will serve this country well. That is why I will vote for the Libertarian candidate for the eleventh time out of the last twelve elections (and for the ninth time in a row).
AzWm
Because the idea he was "almost killed" is completely relative to things we don't have complete information on. And because he's campaigning on "I took a bullet for democracy" while simultaneously not releasing his medical records. If you can't see the obvious conflict of interest...
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 27, 2024 16:25:26 GMT -8
Wait a minute. Let's get this straight. I suggested that whether Trump was hit by a bullet or by shrapnel is not so important as the fact that someone came close to killing him. Why in god's name do you think that it makes a difference whether he was hit by a bullet or by shrapnel? Please explain.
Whether Trump should be President again is a completely different issue. For me, neither Trump nor Harris will serve this country well. That is why I will vote for the Libertarian candidate for the eleventh time out of the last twelve elections (and for the ninth time in a row).
AzWm
Because the idea he was "almost killed" is completely relative to things we don't have complete information on. And because he's campaigning on "I took a bullet for democracy" while simultaneously not releasing his medical records. If you can't see the obvious conflict of interest... Look, do you really think that the bullet (as I think it was) did NOT come close to killing Trump? I know you do not like my saying that you hate (as opposed to strongly disliking) Donald Trump. But this could very well have been a political assassination that would have make our already fractious political situation much worse.
One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
Ryan, I am sure that you do not agree with these folks.
A new snap poll conducted last Thursday revealed that a third of Democratic voters wish that former President Donald Trump had been killed by would-be assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks at his campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
americanmilitarynews.com/2024/07/one-third-of-democrats-wish-trump-had-been-killed-poll-shows/
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 27, 2024 16:45:35 GMT -8
Because the idea he was "almost killed" is completely relative to things we don't have complete information on. And because he's campaigning on "I took a bullet for democracy" while simultaneously not releasing his medical records. If you can't see the obvious conflict of interest... Look, do you really think that the bullet (as I think it was) did NOT come close to killing Trump? I know you do not like my saying that you hate (as opposed to strongly disliking) Donald Trump. But this could very well have been a political assassination that would have make our already fractious political situation much worse.
One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
Ryan, I am sure that you do not agree with these folks.
A new snap poll conducted last Thursday revealed that a third of Democratic voters wish that former President Donald Trump had been killed by would-be assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks at his campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
americanmilitarynews.com/2024/07/one-third-of-democrats-wish-trump-had-been-killed-poll-shows/
AzWmIt's not about finding it "disturbing" - It's about reality vs. whatever you're trying to create here. Trump is fundraising off dead bodies. That's what I care about.
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Post by uwphoto on Jul 27, 2024 16:51:38 GMT -8
Because the idea he was "almost killed" is completely relative to things we don't have complete information on. And because he's campaigning on "I took a bullet for democracy" while simultaneously not releasing his medical records. If you can't see the obvious conflict of interest... Look, do you really think that the bullet (as I think it was) did NOT come close to killing Trump? I know you do not like my saying that you hate (as opposed to strongly disliking) Donald Trump. But this could very well have been a political assassination that would have make our already fractious political situation much worse.
One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
Ryan, I am sure that you do not agree with these folks.
A new snap poll conducted last Thursday revealed that a third of Democratic voters wish that former President Donald Trump had been killed by would-be assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks at his campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
americanmilitarynews.com/2024/07/one-third-of-democrats-wish-trump-had-been-killed-poll-shows/
AzWmThe horror William! When John Kennedy got assassinated, my wife's country club, Republican, parents expressed happiness. The divisions are much stronger today. Nobody (smart people) wanted to see trump martyred. However, he causes a deep visceral hatred in some...to a level I've never seen in 70 years...so these emotions should not surprise you.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 28, 2024 10:46:01 GMT -8
Look, do you really think that the bullet (as I think it was) did NOT come close to killing Trump? I know you do not like my saying that you hate (as opposed to strongly disliking) Donald Trump. But this could very well have been a political assassination that would have make our already fractious political situation much worse.
One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
Ryan, I am sure that you do not agree with these folks.
A new snap poll conducted last Thursday revealed that a third of Democratic voters wish that former President Donald Trump had been killed by would-be assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks at his campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
americanmilitarynews.com/2024/07/one-third-of-democrats-wish-trump-had-been-killed-poll-shows/
AzWm The horror William! When John Kennedy got assassinated, my wife's country club, Republican, parents expressed happiness. The divisions are much stronger today. Nobody (smart people) wanted to see trump martyred. However, he causes a deep visceral hatred in some...to a level I've never seen in 70 years...so these emotions should not surprise you. Surprise me? No, I guess they do not surprise me. When one considers politics, there will always be a few people whose views go off the deep end. I would hope, however, that relatively sane people stop short of finding joy at the death of political opponents.
[Speaking of JFK, I remember those four days well. The four darkest days of my life, and that includes the deaths of a younger brother and those of my parents. (I will add that, though my family voted Republican (I was just 18 years old in 1960 and in those days ineligible to vote), my opinion of Kennedy's job as POTUS was rather positive.]
Let me restate something from my earlier post. One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 28, 2024 10:51:48 GMT -8
The horror William! When John Kennedy got assassinated, my wife's country club, Republican, parents expressed happiness. The divisions are much stronger today. Nobody (smart people) wanted to see trump martyred. However, he causes a deep visceral hatred in some...to a level I've never seen in 70 years...so these emotions should not surprise you. Surprise me? No, I guess they do not surprise me. When one considers politics, there will always be a few people whose views go off the deep end. I would hope, however, that relatively sane people stop short of finding joy at the death of political opponents.
[Speaking of JFK, I remember those four days well. The four darkest days of my life, and that includes the deaths of a younger brother and those of my parents. (I will add that, though my family voted Republican (I was just 18 years old in 1960 and in those days ineligible to vote), my opinion of Kennedy's job as POTUS was rather positive.]
Let me restate something from my earlier post. One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
AzWm Will you confront the reality that you blamed the "left" and have never adjusted for that? It's ironic that you are critical of people downplaying THIS when all you've done is downplay Trump's endangerment of the country.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 28, 2024 11:08:00 GMT -8
Look, do you really think that the bullet (as I think it was) did NOT come close to killing Trump? I know you do not like my saying that you hate (as opposed to strongly disliking) Donald Trump. But this could very well have been a political assassination that would have make our already fractious political situation much worse.
One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
Ryan, I am sure that you do not agree with these folks.
A new snap poll conducted last Thursday revealed that a third of Democratic voters wish that former President Donald Trump had been killed by would-be assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks at his campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania.
americanmilitarynews.com/2024/07/one-third-of-democrats-wish-trump-had-been-killed-poll-shows/
AzWm It's not about finding it "disturbing" - It's about reality vs. whatever you're trying to create here. Trump is fundraising off dead bodies. That's what I care about. I am not trying to create anything, Ryan. My purpose in posting in this thread is to comment on how serious a threat to our country the assassination of the GOP candidate would have been. What does bother me is that you appear incapable of understanding how much worse off our politics would have been had Trump been killed or so badly wounded that he would have had to withdraw. And I say that even though I intend to not vote for Trump.
I do not for a minute condemn your attitude of Trump's activities since the assassination attempt, however. That is fair game.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 28, 2024 11:32:20 GMT -8
Surprise me? No, I guess they do not surprise me. When one considers politics, there will always be a few people whose views go off the deep end. I would hope, however, that relatively sane people stop short of finding joy at the death of political opponents.
[Speaking of JFK, I remember those four days well. The four darkest days of my life, and that includes the deaths of a younger brother and those of my parents. (I will add that, though my family voted Republican (I was just 18 years old in 1960 and in those days ineligible to vote), my opinion of Kennedy's job as POTUS was rather positive.]
Let me restate something from my earlier post. One does not have to be a Trump supporter to find this incident very disturbing. No need to downplay its importance.
AzWm Will you confront the reality that you blamed the "left" and have never adjusted for that? It's ironic that you are critical of people downplaying THIS when all you've done is downplay Trump's endangerment of the country. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do not think that I accused the Left of causing the assassination attempt. What I said was that constant over the top attacks on Trump (he's a threat to Democracy, he's Hitler, etc.) might, repeat might, cause some nut-case with a gun to attempt to rid this country of so great a threat to domestic peace and tranquility. Might the same be said for language aimed at Democrats? Possibly. In any case, in the 72 years that I have been observing the political scene, I have never, ever seen such intemperate language aimed at opponents.
With respect to Trump's supposed endangerment to this country, this quote may be of interest:
To cast Trump in the mold of Hitler both misreads the history of totalitarianism and deflects the fact that for the foreseeable future the left actually has much more influence than the right over the institutions necessary to create a credible fascism.
www.al.com/opinion/2024/07/playing-the-hitler-card-and-misreading-history-op-ed.html
AzWm
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