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Post by RiffelBooks on Apr 25, 2024 7:56:27 GMT -8
Butler is worse IMO. Keshad put his name in the portal immediately and committed to UofA. We all know Keshad's family struggled financially, the tragic situation with his brother. I was sad to see him go but happy for him and thought he handled it perfectly ... it was classy. I had no issue rooting hard for him and UofA this one season. Butler feels like he's kind of hanging us out to dry a little. Could've and should've put his name in the portal weeks ago. Then his dad's comments sound bitter and negative ... essentially toward this program. That's disappointing on several levels ... but maybe the most as when I met Lamont's dad and chatted several times, he is a man of faith and wears it strongly in every sentence he speaks. This feels the opposite of that. That is probably personality the most disappointing to me ... not that anyone cares what I think. Feels crappy cause he valued a quick payday over a lasting legacy. $200k last year here is nothing to sniff at and it would’ve been more this year with the increased MESA funding. It’d be like if Gwynn left the Padres for the last 5 years of his career for a bigger contract with the Yankees. Just wouldn’t feel right. Had he stayed he probably gets his jersey in the rafters someday after 5 years in the program, multiple postseason runs and the biggest moment in program history. Now, I don’t think that ever happens. Hope it’s worth it for him. How do you feel about Trevor Hoffman, then? |
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Post by laaztec on Apr 25, 2024 7:57:44 GMT -8
Fair enough. I think the Butler family has done some "math". I think this is their conclusion: - Make more money elsewhere
- Assume not playing in CA, Avoid state income taxes (let's just say anywhere from 2-10% savings, varying from lower to no state taxes for his new school)
- Be a better fit in a system that compliments his last chance to showcase his offensive game plan or allow him to shoot X shots. Butler already knows what he's getting at SDSU next year, so if there is the perceived possibility, where he can gain in addition to the above 2 bullet items, that's the real motivator, as the first 2 are sure things (cherry on top). Next year is his last and only year left. Make due with what he's got.
I should also say, Keshad was not on any draft boards after he completed his final year at SDSU. Keshad is a consistent mid to late 2nd round pick in mock draft, after this year in Arizona. I am sure Keshad has influenced Butler's decision. Of course, Keshad played pretty well on the Arizona team, and benefitted from exposure playing on a bigger stage and bigger conference PAC-12. Can't take those away from him, but collectively, his case study turned out pretty well for his family and financial life. I would be shocked if Johnson is drafted. |
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Post by aztecking on Apr 25, 2024 7:59:31 GMT -8
Feels crappy cause he valued a quick payday over a lasting legacy. $200k last year here is nothing to sniff at and it would’ve been more this year with the increased MESA funding. It’d be like if Gwynn left the Padres for the last 5 years of his career for a bigger contract with the Yankees. Just wouldn’t feel right. Had he stayed he probably gets his jersey in the rafters someday after 5 years in the program, multiple postseason runs and the biggest moment in program history. Now, I don’t think that ever happens. Hope it’s worth it for him. How do you feel about Trevor Hoffman, then? Seeing as the Padres didn’t offer him a contract to re-sign I don’t see how your comment makes any sense in relation to what I said and Butler’s situation at SDSU. |
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Post by RiffelBooks on Apr 25, 2024 8:03:00 GMT -8
How do you feel about Trevor Hoffman, then? Seeing as the Padres didn’t offer him a contract to re-sign I don’t see how your comment makes any sense in relation to what I said and Butler’s situation at SDSU. A technicality. We still had to watch Trevor in a different uniform, but we're plenty happy to have him back. It will be the same for Lamont when he comes back to watch a game in a few years. He will be an AFL, enter the school's Hall of Fame and will still be strongly considered for having his uni in the rafters. |
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Post by aztecking on Apr 25, 2024 8:16:24 GMT -8
Seeing as the Padres didn’t offer him a contract to re-sign I don’t see how your comment makes any sense in relation to what I said and Butler’s situation at SDSU. A technicality. We still had to watch Trevor in a different uniform, but we're plenty happy to have him back. It will be the same for Lamont when he comes back to watch a game in a few years. He will be an AFL, enter the school's Hall of Fame and will still be strongly considered for having his uni in the rafters. It’s not a technicality at all. Padres didn’t want Hoffman back, the Aztecs would love to have Lamont finish his career here. You really don’t see the difference there? No one would blame Butler for leaving if Dutcher pulled his scholarship. Also don’t think his jersey will ever be retired and honestly I’d like to see LeDee’s retired before Lamont, neither spent their whole career here but LeDee did have arguably the best season ever on the Mesa. |
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Post by TPAztec on Apr 25, 2024 8:19:52 GMT -8
Brutal. Just brutal. I understand and wish him well, but just absolutely brutal news.
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Post by missiontrails on Apr 25, 2024 8:24:58 GMT -8
Butler is worse IMO. Keshad put his name in the portal immediately and committed to UofA. We all know Keshad's family struggled financially, the tragic situation with his brother. I was sad to see him go but happy for him and thought he handled it perfectly ... it was classy. I had no issue rooting hard for him and UofA this one season. Butler feels like he's kind of hanging us out to dry a little. Could've and should've put his name in the portal weeks ago. Then his dad's comments sound bitter and negative ... essentially toward this program. That's disappointing on several levels ... but maybe the most as when I met Lamont's dad and chatted several times, he is a man of faith and wears it strongly in every sentence he speaks. This feels the opposite of that. That is probably personality the most disappointing to me ... not that anyone cares what I think. Feels crappy cause he valued a quick payday over a lasting legacy. $200k last year here is nothing to sniff at and it would’ve been more this year with the increased MESA funding. It’d be like if Gwynn left the Padres for the last 5 years of his career for a bigger contract with the Yankees. Just wouldn’t feel right. Had he stayed he probably gets his jersey in the rafters someday after 5 years in the program, multiple postseason runs and the biggest moment in program history. Now, I don’t think that ever happens. Hope it’s worth it for him. I wonder if you've ever left your company for more money elsewhere. If so, why? Was it YOUR decision about YOUR life? Were you not thinking about your coworkers or your boss? Obviously, Lamont took his time, weighed pros and cons of all options, and chose his best route, while still keeping alternatives open for now. That's the way you do things in life. |
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Post by dlangford9 on Apr 25, 2024 8:27:43 GMT -8
Fine, whatever. This is how college basketball is. Hopefully it doesn't continue to go the direction of the NBA that is a joke.
My only issue is...he is a 21 year old young man, getting paid $200,000 last year to go to college and play basketball. Not sure how his family had to, "...sacrifice financially".
What are we teaching our young men?
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Post by standiego on Apr 25, 2024 8:33:33 GMT -8
Butler has every right to enter the Portal same as Parrish and Keshad - my gripe could be and not sure what he has told Dutcher but make the decision earlier so it is most advantageous for both Butler and Dutcher
Dutcher could use the notice to assist him in being able to recruit replacements - for the last couple of weeks PG's did not even consider SDSU as an option because it was widely considered that Butler was coming back to SDSU
So now let both sides get the best out of the situation
As for Padres - or most Professional teams all depends on the Money an owner wants to spend on their players - we know there was a very big difference in what former Padres owners would spend and what Peter S. was willing to spend on players . There is also a big difference on what the very current owners of the Padres will spend compared to Peter S
SDSU is caught up in the NIL money crunch and the P6 vs Non P6
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Post by hoobs on Apr 25, 2024 8:36:37 GMT -8
If Butler in fact made 200k in NIL last season, I would wager that *massively* leveraged "The Shot" making his NIL value particularly SDSU-specific. I can only guess that his NIL value at SDSU would not have decreased next season. We'll see if he gets anything that matches or exceeds that elsewhere, as other programs will less-emotionally judge his overall skills/performance and they might be less generous that some SDSU fans (i.e., me) in overlooking his rather significant offensive drop-off this past season.
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Post by bnastyaztecs on Apr 25, 2024 8:39:45 GMT -8
"Don't hate the player...hate the game": The frustrations with a system or activity should be blamed on its weaknesses, rather than on individuals who operate/benefit within it.
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Post by docmm on Apr 25, 2024 8:40:47 GMT -8
I really hope that regardless of where he goes or how much $ he does or doesn't get, he doesn't try to get back here if those things don't work out. I agree with Dutcher, once you put your name in the Portal, you're gone to us. Please sign another guard. Kids need to know there are consequences to their actions. I hope he does fine but I don't want him back.
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Post by aztecbrothers on Apr 25, 2024 8:50:48 GMT -8
I say we retire Butlers number.
If the Team Store starts selling Butler jerseys, do we have to pay any NIL money with each sale?
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Post by AzTex on Apr 25, 2024 8:55:04 GMT -8
I've also spoked with Lamont's parents at length a couple times. The first time was at Snapdragon when we all honored the Final Four team. They were excited, gracious and extremely supportive about everything in the program. The second time was this season on February 18th when Mesa NIL contributors were invited to practice and interact afterwards with players a bit. Lamont had had a pretty good game two nights before when we beat New Mexico at home. I spoke with his parents and asked about Keshad because they were so close to him. They kept saying he left "because of the system", not the money. And that it hadn't been good for his game. And it was obvious they felt the same about the system for Lamont. But his dad also kept saying he promised himself he wouldn't say anything negative about the program even though he kept doing so. I felt bad for them because they were just parents who wanted what was best for their son as they saw it. I really liked them as people and seeing as I wasn't a fan of our offensive "system" either, I agreed. But then I watched Lamont closely after that encounter and in the next five games it wasn't the system. He shot 13-41 from the field, including 3-16 from 3. And he never got to the foul line once in the next four games. He was always good on defense but had some really bad or inconsistent games on offense. I got reamed on this board because two months ago I had the audacity to suggest maybe it was time for him to go somewhere else to make some money and restart his game at a new place. I thought the hangover affect from "the shot" was real. He's a great kid and his parents are great people but I still think we might be better off with a new look at that position next year. I never thought he was coming back for next season and was already ok with that but I hate that it didn't happen a lot sooner. I have zero problem with him taking bigger money but his timing was lousy and kind of selfish. I hope for the whole family's sake, it turns out ok but let's move on to a new Aztec. I'm probably one of those people who reamed you over posts about Butler. While I think your comments might have gone a little too far, I will admit (& apologize) that my own sentiment to probably 'defend' him was more driven by emotion rather than logic. While he improved towards the end of the season (albeit still plagued by some inconsistency), it's inescapably true that Butler's offense certainly regressed. And something I have said before, in agreement with your observations, is that I don't buy the blame on the 'offensive system'. 59.4% free throw shooting, and I'm pretty sure it was under 50% in the first half of the season, can't be blamed on 'the system' or anything else. So *something* was going on with Butler that had nothing to do with the team, the coaching, etc. And frankly his "5" Instagram post/video now feels very disingenuous. All that said, I still wanted Butler to come back for his 5th year. But I agree with Dutcher's sentiment... you put your name in the portal, IMO you've left the team. Maybe I'm expressing that in a stronger fashion that Dutch would, but that's how I feel. I'll always appreciate Butler's contributions as an Aztec, and cherish experiencing "The Shot" in person in Houston. But he will quickly become irrelevant in my mind, just like Johnson after he left to UofA. Next man up, let's get a great 3-level scorer who plays strong defense at the 2/3. Fisher's mantra said it best, "The team, the team, the team." It's not, "The team, the team, maybe that other team." Try telling you wife that you'd like to see if you have a chance with a younger woman and if it doesn't work out you'll be back. That won't work either. You're either in or you're out in my book. |
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Post by missiontrails on Apr 25, 2024 9:07:53 GMT -8
I'm probably one of those people who reamed you over posts about Butler. While I think your comments might have gone a little too far, I will admit (& apologize) that my own sentiment to probably 'defend' him was more driven by emotion rather than logic. While he improved towards the end of the season (albeit still plagued by some inconsistency), it's inescapably true that Butler's offense certainly regressed. And something I have said before, in agreement with your observations, is that I don't buy the blame on the 'offensive system'. 59.4% free throw shooting, and I'm pretty sure it was under 50% in the first half of the season, can't be blamed on 'the system' or anything else. So *something* was going on with Butler that had nothing to do with the team, the coaching, etc. And frankly his "5" Instagram post/video now feels very disingenuous. All that said, I still wanted Butler to come back for his 5th year. But I agree with Dutcher's sentiment... you put your name in the portal, IMO you've left the team. Maybe I'm expressing that in a stronger fashion that Dutch would, but that's how I feel. I'll always appreciate Butler's contributions as an Aztec, and cherish experiencing "The Shot" in person in Houston. But he will quickly become irrelevant in my mind, just like Johnson after he left to UofA. Next man up, let's get a great 3-level scorer who plays strong defense at the 2/3. Fisher's mantra said it best, "The team, the team, the team." It's not, "The team, the team, maybe that other team." Try telling you wife that you'd like to see if you have a chance with a younger woman and if it doesn't work out you'll be back. That won't work either. You're either in or you're out in my book. Hmmmm, guess I better change my strategy. Thanks for the heads up before I end up on the couch.....outside!  |
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Post by AzTex on Apr 25, 2024 9:13:34 GMT -8
I really hope that regardless of where he goes or how much $ he does or doesn't get, he doesn't try to get back here if those things don't work out. I agree with Dutcher, once you put your name in the Portal, you're gone to us. Please sign another guard. Kids need to know there are consequences to their actions. I hope he does fine but I don't want him back. Butler gave me the greatest sports moment of my long life with "The Shot." I swore that I would criticize anything thing he did on the court after that. However, now that he's announced his desire to transfer to another team I hope Dutcher recruits someone to replace him.
I really hate having to say that.
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Post by mactec on Apr 25, 2024 9:23:52 GMT -8
I say we retire Butlers number. If the Team Store starts selling Butler jerseys, do we have to pay any NIL money with each sale? No way. The Shot was legendary and will live in history forever, but I don't think that one basket is enough to elevate Butler into a group of what, 3? Aztecs who have their jersey retired. If you retire Butler's jersey, I think you have to retire Arop, Mensah, Bradley, and Trammel as well since they were all just as responsible for us getting as far as we did. |
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Post by Boise Aztec on Apr 25, 2024 9:25:57 GMT -8
Brutal with only a week left in the transfer window. Roddie Anderson homecoming if he’s gone gone? I love Lamont. LOVE HIM. Additionally, I've met his his dad and had several conversations that I would describe as having some depth. I wish him nothing but the best ... but ... BUT ... I have an issue why he took so long to decide this and has kind of left Ditcher out to dry a bit. We have passed on some other guards (Dusell, others) that would've fit in pretty well IMO... especially next to Boyd. I think it's possible Boyd can be better than Lamont will next next season. So if we'd known Lamont was going to the portal, could've gone after taller combo guards or a tall 3 & D wing. Still can but many have already gone elsewhere, including to schools that are comparable. Heck, maybe we could've nailed done Cardenas ... him, Boyd and Watwr could've been a heckuva backcourt. Disappointing on several levels. NIL really sucks for us because we've deserved way better than this based on our BB program's success. At times it feels like almost everything in our world gets worse as it is "improved" Boyd has some Malachi in him, in terms of running the pick and role… |
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Post by missiontrails on Apr 25, 2024 9:26:21 GMT -8
I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure Dutcher has said it's not absolute that he wouldn't take players back - it's on a case-by-case. He just said he'll be recruiting as if they're gone.
I know it's a different situation, since they lost their coach, but at lease 3 Utah State Aggies have changed their minds and come back to Logan this month. But yeah, I'd say it's at least 95% that Butler will be playing elsewhere.
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Post by bnastyaztecs on Apr 25, 2024 9:43:03 GMT -8
I'm probably one of those people who reamed you over posts about Butler. While I think your comments might have gone a little too far, I will admit (& apologize) that my own sentiment to probably 'defend' him was more driven by emotion rather than logic. While he improved towards the end of the season (albeit still plagued by some inconsistency), it's inescapably true that Butler's offense certainly regressed. And something I have said before, in agreement with your observations, is that I don't buy the blame on the 'offensive system'. 59.4% free throw shooting, and I'm pretty sure it was under 50% in the first half of the season, can't be blamed on 'the system' or anything else. So *something* was going on with Butler that had nothing to do with the team, the coaching, etc. And frankly his "5" Instagram post/video now feels very disingenuous. All that said, I still wanted Butler to come back for his 5th year. But I agree with Dutcher's sentiment... you put your name in the portal, IMO you've left the team. Maybe I'm expressing that in a stronger fashion that Dutch would, but that's how I feel. I'll always appreciate Butler's contributions as an Aztec, and cherish experiencing "The Shot" in person in Houston. But he will quickly become irrelevant in my mind, just like Johnson after he left to UofA. Next man up, let's get a great 3-level scorer who plays strong defense at the 2/3. Fisher's mantra said it best, "The team, the team, the team." It's not, "The team, the team, maybe that other team." Try telling you wife that you'd like to see if you have a chance with a younger woman and if it doesn't work out you'll be back. That won't work either. You're either in or you're out in my book. Not a good analogy...one's wife has his best interest in mind...and both literally have skin in the game...lastly...there are serious consequences of it not working out...in Butler, Keshad and Parrish's case...they fulfilled their committed obligation to "the team"...and are now free agents in their gifted bonus Covid year...their transfer to another school is no different than Wetzel transfering to us in his fifth year.... |
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