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Post by FULL_MONTY on Mar 23, 2024 8:24:48 GMT -8
There is no consistency in the calling of Flagrant 1 and Flagrant 2 fouls. It's a bit too loosey goosey for me. Last year a player wrapped the legs of an Aztec and undercut him to the floor. It was none of the more dangerous plays that I have ever seen and it was a F1. I could go on and on.
This move of the shoulder to the chest as your running down the court is a dirty play staple. I don't recall it ever being elevated to a F2. I think it was called an F2 in this case because CBM is one of the T'd up players in college ball. His reputation did him in.
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Mar 23, 2024 8:28:45 GMT -8
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Post by smoothcat on Mar 23, 2024 9:25:15 GMT -8
I watched the clip of his flagrant foul and, yeah, that was a legit Flagrant 2. It was away from the play, and the threw the elbow at the defender to slow him down. Right in front of a ref, no less! What a jackass. I'm glad he isn't here. We don't need problems like him on the team. A locker room cancer. It's a damned good thing he's gone. It was an easy call for the refs and deservedly a Flagrant 2 and normally I think college basketball refs overreact to plays....that one was justified. He played a great 3 minutes though! |
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 23, 2024 9:33:23 GMT -8
There is no consistency in the calling of Flagrant 1 and Flagrant 2 fouls. It's a bit too loosey goosey for me. Last year a player wrapped the legs of an Aztec and undercut him to the floor. It was none of the more dangerous plays that I have ever seen and it was a F1. I could go on and on. This move of the shoulder to the chest as your running down the court is a dirty play staple. I don't recall it ever being elevated to a F2. I think it was called an F2 in this case because CBM is one of the T'd up players in college ball. His reputation did him in. It wasn't a shoulder to the chest. It was a winding up elbow to the chest, away from the play, not basketball related, and right in front of the ref. No brainer flagrant 2. |
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Post by sdsuball on Mar 23, 2024 10:04:13 GMT -8
There is no consistency in the calling of Flagrant 1 and Flagrant 2 fouls. It's a bit too loosey goosey for me. Last year a player wrapped the legs of an Aztec and undercut him to the floor. It was none of the more dangerous plays that I have ever seen and it was a F1. I could go on and on. This move of the shoulder to the chest as your running down the court is a dirty play staple. I don't recall it ever being elevated to a F2. I think it was called an F2 in this case because CBM is one of the T'd up players in college ball. His reputation did him in. It wasn't a shoulder to the chest. It was a winding up elbow to the chest, away from the play, not basketball related, right on front of the ref. No brainer flagrant 2. Yeah exactly, if he was back in the half court jostling for position and there was shoving, okay flagrant 1. If his man was running past him and he pulls his jersey to slow him down, okay flagrant 1. If his man was running past him and he sticks his arm in front of him to slow him down, intentional foul or common foul. But this, there's no reason for him to be engaged with the other player with a swinging elbow. |
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 23, 2024 10:07:27 GMT -8
It wasn't a shoulder to the chest. It was a winding up elbow to the chest, away from the play, not basketball related, right on front of the ref. No brainer flagrant 2. Yeah exactly, if he was back in the half court jostling for position and there was shoving, okay flagrant 1. If his man was running past him and he pulls his jersey to slow him down, okay flagrant 1. If his man was running past him and he sticks his arm in front of him to slow him down, intentional foul or common foul. But this, there's no reason for him to be engaged with the other player with a swinging elbow. Yeah, really dumb on his part. If he wants to get back at the guy, then there's more subtle ways to do it. CBM simply lacks discipline. |
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Post by AzTex on Mar 23, 2024 10:08:27 GMT -8
There is no consistency in the calling of Flagrant 1 and Flagrant 2 fouls. It's a bit too loosey goosey for me. Last year a player wrapped the legs of an Aztec and undercut him to the floor. It was none of the more dangerous plays that I have ever seen and it was a F1. I could go on and on. This move of the shoulder to the chest as your running down the court is a dirty play staple. I don't recall it ever being elevated to a F2. I think it was called an F2 in this case because CBM is one of the T'd up players in college ball. His reputation did him in. It wasn't a shoulder to the chest. It was a winding up elbow to the chest, away from the play, not basketball related, right on front of the ref. No brainer flagrant 2. That's the part that cemented it as a F2. Definitely not the normal jostling and bumping while moving up court. Any one who cant see that needs to see an eye doctor quickly. |
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Post by johneaztec on Mar 23, 2024 10:09:59 GMT -8
It wasn't a shoulder to the chest. It was a winding up elbow to the chest, away from the play, not basketball related, right on front of the ref. No brainer flagrant 2. That's the part that cemented it as a F2. Definitely not the normal jostling and bumping while moving up court. Any one who cant see that needs to see an eye doctor quickly. For sure, and he did it right in front of the ref. Horrible. Some people just don't want to see the obvious. |
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Post by aztecdieheart on Mar 23, 2024 10:39:35 GMT -8
Well I watched the reply six times and it was not "obvious" to me that it deserved kicking a key player out of the game only 3 minuets old. The refs in actual effect determined the winner of that game. It simply was not that vicious a blow and not a punch or a blow to the head ,face or neck. The player was not in a defenseless position. And the play before they totally missed the player smacking Baker in the face. I thought it was an easy F-1 but that it did not justify ejection. As the TV officiating "expert" explained it was within the definition of an F-2 so within the officials area of discretion. When the refs miss a dirty play that invites retaliation and they share some of the blame for this situation. I think a good official does everything possible to not make a call that decides the game. If we were AB and a ref did that to us I suspect this Board would be outraged. I know it is always the second guy who gets flagged and understand how hard it can be for any human being to not react and return a blow, but the refs have to keep control of the game so call the T ,but the blow did not meet my standard for an ejection. Doesn't anyone but me feel a little bad for how Baker and his team were penalized for his mistake, especially in front of his father who had flown in to see his son play?
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Post by aztecdieheart on Mar 23, 2024 10:54:14 GMT -8
Oh and some Aztec history if memory serves. A similar situation is an Aztec game at the old sports Arena. A guard who played like House did some sneaking but very dirty stuff to our guard-I think his name was Zack Jones? The refs totally missed the call. As Zack was running back he shaded down and around on the opposite side from the guy bringing the ball up and moved right up close to the guy who had fouled him and struck a quick short but powerful blow to the guys solar plexus. He went down like a stone, while Zack continued down the court like nothing happened. The refs saw nothing. The kid got up off the floor and went completely "ape s--t" charging across court after Zack yelling and had to be restrained. Of course he was T ed up and ejected, and all the Aztec fans cheered. It was by far a more vicious blow then the one Baker threw but it wasn't in front of the ref and the guy had it coming. I am not justifying what Baker did but I do not think the punishment fit the crime.
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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Mar 23, 2024 10:54:47 GMT -8
It was obviously an intentional elbow but it didn't connect that hard, and didn't hit the guy in the face or something. An intentional elbow should be a flagrant but since it didn't land all that hard and it being such a big game, I wouldn't have kicked him out. It was a stupid play regardless though to put your team and the refs in that position
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Post by junior on Mar 23, 2024 11:16:22 GMT -8
Sadly, this will likely serve to cement CBM in SDSU MBB lore … I wonder what the Aztecs' coaching staff thought about this when they saw it yesterday. Relief that CBM left, remorse that they couldn't help him more when he was here?
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Post by aztecbb on Mar 23, 2024 12:32:34 GMT -8
73 strikes and you are out.
If this was Chad Smith and his first offense, I agree it's only a flagrant 1.
This is Draymond Green II.
Dude has more cheap shot T's than entire conferences.
Watched Auburn twice (before the Aztec games in Vegas) and he was involved in 4 or 5 unnecessary skirmishes. Both teams got Td up but CBM was in the middle of every one.
What I can't figure out is why.
He seems like a good kid - he actually went to the Aztec hotel to hang out with his former teammates. He went to the Aztec section to say hi to the Aztec fans. He's an exceptional talent but he can't control his emotions.
I lay part of the blame on Bruce Pearl who does nothing but encourage this behavior from his entire team.
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Post by sdsuball on Mar 23, 2024 17:30:01 GMT -8
I have to admit, it's incredibly ironic that the CBM incident happened After this thread was created. Going back to the Creighton game, my thought was "you talk to CBM, let him sit for awhile, then put him back in." But clearly he could have gotten t'd up again in that game, so yeah I guess I can't fault Dutch for not putting him back in. He appears to be a loose cannon.
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Post by Den60 on Mar 24, 2024 9:42:47 GMT -8
Well I watched the reply six times and it was not "obvious" to me that it deserved kicking a key player out of the game only 3 minuets old. The refs in actual effect determined the winner of that game. It simply was not that vicious a blow and not a punch or a blow to the head ,face or neck. The player was not in a defenseless position. And the play before they totally missed the player smacking Baker in the face. I thought it was an easy F-1 but that it did not justify ejection. As the TV officiating "expert" explained it was within the definition of an F-2 so within the officials area of discretion. When the refs miss a dirty play that invites retaliation and they share some of the blame for this situation. I think a good official does everything possible to not make a call that decides the game. If we were AB and a ref did that to us I suspect this Board would be outraged. I know it is always the second guy who gets flagged and understand how hard it can be for any human being to not react and return a blow, but the refs have to keep control of the game so call the T ,but the blow did not meet my standard for an ejection. Doesn't anyone but me feel a little bad for how Baker and his team were penalized for his mistake, especially in front of his father who had flown in to see his son play? Everyone knows that the retaliation gets called. Let's say the give BM a break and that leads to more of the same. BM did something really stupid and stupid should hurt. Also, BM had that reputation coming into the game, being T'd up often during the year. |
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Post by standiego on Mar 24, 2024 9:55:40 GMT -8
as noted guys earn or carry a reputation - and opposing coaches do chat with the refs about what to watch for from opposing players
yes off the court and to his team mates CBM maybe a nice guy But then the inner character comes out when he hits the court
while guys like House are jerks CBM can do a lot of physical things that are not needed and you get what you deserve
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Post by docmm on Mar 28, 2024 10:40:07 GMT -8
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Post by azson on Mar 28, 2024 12:14:53 GMT -8
Did anyone actually DVR the game, rewind, and able to see the previous play that CBM was so pissed about? I'm curious if it was intentional or just a bball play that CBM unfortunately got the wrong end of?
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Post by azson on Mar 28, 2024 12:17:59 GMT -8
"What a really difficult way to learn from that mistake," Pearl said Thursday, rehashing the scenario six days later.Not buying that quote at all; as has been pointed out ad nauseum, he's had plenty of "mistakes" to learn from in the past.
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Post by AzTex on Mar 28, 2024 12:56:03 GMT -8
Did anyone actually DVR the game, rewind, and able to see the previous play that CBM was so pissed about? I'm curious if it was intentional or just a bball play that CBM unfortunately got the wrong end of? I DVRed our game before, but I always add a lot of time at the end of scheduled recordings in case of overtime(s) or other delays so I did get the beginning of Yale/Auburn. On the trip down court toward the Yale end the Yale player put his hand in CBM's chest and gave him a little shove. 10 seconds later as the teams are transitioning toward the Auburn end of the court CBM eyeballs the Yale player, winds up and hits him in the chest. Not comparable at all. The little Yale shove could have been called a foul, but it's rare that that kind of contact would actually be called.
Unnecessary, uncalled for, intentional and definitely a Flagrant 2 foul in my book.
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