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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:03:09 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 16:03:09 GMT -8
That's just a question of logic. Beyond that, there is ZERO evidence of God, while there is physical evidence that there is a scientific explanation/cause of the beginning of the universe. So you agree, that for God to exist, he doesn't have to have been created, correct? And you believe that the universe began to exist, correct? Scientists have come up with theories on how the universe started as spontaneous creation and how that would happen. Of course, that's the creation of matter and energy, not a sentient, all powerful being.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:11:32 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 19, 2022 16:11:32 GMT -8
Okay What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that he simply does not exists at all? And that we created him so that we would not feel so small and alone. I think it is a lot more likely that God created the universe, laws of physics, logic, math, etc. than it just came into being on it's own. EDIT: actually, I'm not sure about logic, logic could just be part of the "nature of God".
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:15:30 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 19, 2022 16:15:30 GMT -8
So you agree, that for God to exist, he doesn't have to have been created, correct? And you believe that the universe began to exist, correct? Scientists have come up with theories on how the universe started as spontaneous creation and how that would happen. Of course, that's the creation of matter and energy, not a sentient, all powerful being. You believe in "spontaneous creation"? The creation of matter and energy. Correct?
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:26:54 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 16:26:54 GMT -8
Scientists have come up with theories on how the universe started as spontaneous creation and how that would happen. Of course, that's the creation of matter and energy, not a sentient, all powerful being. You believe in "spontaneous creation"? The creation of matter and energy. Correct? I believe it's not impossible. However, I do firmly believe that the spontaneous creation of a sentient, all knowing, all powerful being is pure insanity.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:41:18 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 19, 2022 16:41:18 GMT -8
You believe in "spontaneous creation"? The creation of matter and energy. Correct? I believe it's not impossible. However, I do firmly believe that the spontaneous creation of a sentient, all knowing, all powerful being is pure insanity. We have already covered that an eternal something exists. Right? And that the universe spontaneously began, matter and energy. I think it is reasonable to believe that the eternal something caused the "spontaneous creation of matter and energy" and laws of physics, that organized into the universe. That eternal something is pretty powerful and intelligent.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:44:57 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 16:44:57 GMT -8
I believe it's not impossible. However, I do firmly believe that the spontaneous creation of a sentient, all knowing, all powerful being is pure insanity. We have already covered that an eternal something exists. Right? And that the universe spontaneously began, matter and energy. I think it is reasonable to believe that the eternal something caused the "spontaneous creation of matter and energy" and laws of physics, that organized into the universe. That eternal something is pretty powerful and intelligent. No, no, no. Nature is an amazing thing. It requires NO intelligence or intelligent design. The universe is completely RANDOM. It's chaos. No freaking way in hell did an all knowing, all powerful deity spontaneously exist. It took billions of years to create sentient life once the universe began. The Bible is full of crap. There was no 6 days of creation. It was a long process over a billion or two years. The Bible is full of childish, backwards, contradictory myths. It's easy to debunk. The only reason you believe in God is because you were indoctrinated into the cult called Christianity. A damned successful cult.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:53:31 GMT -8
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sdsuball likes this
Post by aztecryan on Sept 19, 2022 16:53:31 GMT -8
I hope this thread gets to a hundred pages.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 16:57:52 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 19, 2022 16:57:52 GMT -8
The universe came into being. What caused the universe to come into being? (The universe is not completely random, it is governed by laws, that's why we can study it).
Again, I'm not arguing for a being to spontaneously exist. I'm arguing for SOMETHING to eternally exist, and yes I think that something is GOD, but theoretically, it wouldn't have to be (I don't think, but maybe it would?)
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 17:15:06 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 17:15:06 GMT -8
The universe came into being. What caused the universe to come into being? (The universe is not completely random, it is governed by laws, that's why we can study it). Again, I'm not arguing for a being to spontaneously exist. I'm arguing for SOMETHING to eternally exist, and yes I think that something is GOD, but theoretically, it wouldn't have to be (I don't think, but maybe it would?) You missed the point. In the last couple of years a few scientists have come up with a theory - following the known laws of physics and theoretical advanced physics - allowing for the spontaneous creation of that ball of matter/energy that exploded creating the universe. They had a pretty compelling theory. It can't be proven - yet - but that day is coming. Probably not in our lifetimes or the lifetimes of our grandchildren, but 500 years from now that theory, or a subsequent one building on this one, will be proven. The point is, it is possible that there was a time before anything existed. No God required. God is there for people who are afraid of the unknown. People who feel a need to have a higher power threatening to punish them if they do bad things in order to be good people. Then there are people who are Atheists and Agnostics who don't do bad things because they're simply bad people and can't imagine doing anything to hurt anyone. No Hell required as a deterrent. But 3,000 years ago, when people thought the sun revolved around the Earth and that the Earth was all that existed in the universe (and the sun, moon, and stars were just a part of the sky), the only way to explain existence was through an all powerful God. A superstitious myth created out of ignorance. The fact that people still follow that myth today is kind of frightening. And it's only possible through indoctrination, because common sense tells you there is no God. Critical thinking tells you there is no God. I used to be a lot more courteous towards people's religious beliefs, but religion has been weaponized and it is, AGAIN, becoming something that divides people and creates violence. How many MILLIONS of people have been killed in the name of God? Too many.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 17:20:09 GMT -8
I hope this thread gets to a hundred pages. I'm doing my part. I'm done respecting religious beliefs. Religion has been weaponized. Enough is enough. If religios people want respect they need to respect the rights of others and rein in the people on their side who are sliding into extremism.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 17:24:15 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Sept 19, 2022 17:24:15 GMT -8
What makes more sense, that God created the universe and all it's intricacies, such as nobody has the same finger prints, if the earth and sun were at a minute amount away from each other it wouldn't work, and soooo many more examples, or the ridiculous "big bang theory." So many things here on earth have to work in sync to stay alive it's insurmountable. Oh. My. God. Really? Are you that superstitous, that frightened by the unknown that you need a God to protect you? Guess what? In the QUADRILLIONS of planets out there, life starting on just .00001% of them means millions of planets with life. Tens of millions, probably. Science gives you the ansswers. You choose not to accept it. How dark ages of you. No wonder you believe in myth. Please. Stop. There is ZERO proof that Jesus was anything more than just another human being. Nothing more. Second - "Amongst other things." What other things? What physical, empirical evidence are you talking about? Word of mouth, stories, and legends don't count. Protects me? Yes. Also, I'm simply very thankful for the life he's given me and for Jesus having to die to give us hope for eternal life. You sound just like a person who's heart is hardened that there's no hope for you, unfortunately. And, I hope before you die that's not the case. By the way, there was AT LEAST 500 people who witnessed Jesus resurrection. It only takes 1 eye witness in a court of law to convict, or exonerate someone. So there's that.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 17:26:01 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Sept 19, 2022 17:26:01 GMT -8
I hope this thread gets to a hundred pages. Me too.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 17:27:41 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Sept 19, 2022 17:27:41 GMT -8
I hope this thread gets to a hundred pages. I'm doing my part. I'm done respecting religious beliefs. Religion has been weaponized. Enough is enough. If religios people want respect they need to respect the rights of others and rein in the people on their side who are sliding into extremism. Oh, you have the freedom of choice. Jesus does not want a relationship with someone who doesn't want one with him. No problem. It's your choice, and no pressure. Once your heart gets so hardened, he'll move away from you and he'll let you try and be your own God, so to speak.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 17:39:08 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 17:39:08 GMT -8
Oh. My. God. Really? Are you that superstitous, that frightened by the unknown that you need a God to protect you? Guess what? In the QUADRILLIONS of planets out there, life starting on just .00001% of them means millions of planets with life. Tens of millions, probably. Science gives you the ansswers. You choose not to accept it. How dark ages of you. No wonder you believe in myth. Please. Stop. There is ZERO proof that Jesus was anything more than just another human being. Nothing more. Second - "Amongst other things." What other things? What physical, empirical evidence are you talking about? Word of mouth, stories, and legends don't count. Protects me? Yes. Also, I'm simply very thankful for the life he's given me and for Jesus having to die to give us hope for eternal life. You sound just like a person who's heart is hardened that there's no hope for you, unfortunately. And, I hope before you die that's not the case. By the way, there was AT LEAST 500 people who witnessed Jesus resurrection. It only takes 1 eye witness in a court of law to convict, or exonerate someone. So there's that. That's that? Come on. You know that's bull$#!+. The STORY is that there were 500 people who witnessed the resurrection. That's a story, a myth. HEARSAY is not admissable in court. Try again. You only believe in God and Jesus because you were indoctrinated. You have seen no actual evidence of the existence of God. You have just been told by people you trust that he exists. It's all word of mouth - stories. I posted before how books of the Bible were actually written long after the events supposedly happened. It's the freaking telephone game - the stories got bigger and more outlandish each time they were told! By the time these stories were written down and compiled they had become rather tall tales. Jesus was a superhero! He was Wolverine! Able to regenerate. Seriously, Jesus was the first superhero. A great fictional character that had little resemblance to the real person he was based on. It's a cult.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 17:45:44 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by aztecryan on Sept 19, 2022 17:45:44 GMT -8
Protects me? Yes. Also, I'm simply very thankful for the life he's given me and for Jesus having to die to give us hope for eternal life. You sound just like a person who's heart is hardened that there's no hope for you, unfortunately. And, I hope before you die that's not the case. By the way, there was AT LEAST 500 people who witnessed Jesus resurrection. It only takes 1 eye witness in a court of law to convict, or exonerate someone. So there's that. That's that? Come on. You know that's bull$#!+. The STORY is that there were 500 people who witnessed the resurrection. That's a story, a myth. HEARSAY is not admissable in court. Try again. You only believe in God and Jesus because you were indoctrinated. You have seen no actual evidence of the existence of God. You have just been told by people you trust that he exists. It's all word of mouth - stories. I posted before how books of the Bible were actually written long after the events supposedly happened. It's the freaking telephone game - the stories got bigger and more outlandish each time they were told! By the time these stories were written down and compiled they had become rather tall tales. Jesus was a superhero! He was Wolverine! Able to regenerate. Seriously, Jesus was the first superhero. A great fictional character that had little resemblance to the real person he was based on. It's a cult. There are so many more important things than to argue with the religious zealots. You'll never convince a believer that the Bible is fiction, you'll never get past the facade of scripture itself. Besides, it's very lonely in the "Will a former president be indicted for 3,673,924 crimes" thread.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 18:00:47 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 19, 2022 18:00:47 GMT -8
You stated: "The point is, it is possible that there was a time before anything existed. No God required."
So you believe there was actually NOTHING, then all of a sudden, NOTHING gave rise to SOMETHING. You can believe that, but I don't think that is reasonable.
BTW: You are wrong about religion being the major killer historically (yes, people have killed people over religion). However, the atheist governments of Russia, China, and Cambodia, killed an estimated 21 - 70 million non-combatants in the 20th century alone. Let that sink in.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 18:16:31 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 18:16:31 GMT -8
You stated: "The point is, it is possible that there was a time before anything existed. No God required." So you believe there was actually NOTHING, then all of a sudden, NOTHING gave rise to SOMETHING. You can believe that, but I don't think that is reasonable. BTW: You are wrong about religion being the major killer historically (yes, people have killed people over religion). However, the atheist governments of Russia, China, and Cambodia, killed an estimated 21 - 70 million non-combatants in the 20th century alone. Let that sink in. How about two millennia of murder in the name of religion before that? And how about the Jews killed because they had the WRONG religion? Germany was a Christian country. And how about those pesky Crusades? Our religion is better than yours, so you must DIE!!!!
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 18:21:10 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Sept 19, 2022 18:21:10 GMT -8
Protects me? Yes. Also, I'm simply very thankful for the life he's given me and for Jesus having to die to give us hope for eternal life. You sound just like a person who's heart is hardened that there's no hope for you, unfortunately. And, I hope before you die that's not the case. By the way, there was AT LEAST 500 people who witnessed Jesus resurrection. It only takes 1 eye witness in a court of law to convict, or exonerate someone. So there's that. That's that? Come on. You know that's bull$#!+. The STORY is that there were 500 people who witnessed the resurrection. That's a story, a myth. HEARSAY is not admissable in court. Try again. You only believe in God and Jesus because you were indoctrinated. You have seen no actual evidence of the existence of God. You have just been told by people you trust that he exists. It's all word of mouth - stories. I posted before how books of the Bible were actually written long after the events supposedly happened. It's the freaking telephone game - the stories got bigger and more outlandish each time they were told! By the time these stories were written down and compiled they had become rather tall tales. Jesus was a superhero! He was Wolverine! Able to regenerate. Seriously, Jesus was the first superhero. A great fictional character that had little resemblance to the real person he was based on. It's a cult. Oh no, there's much, much more, but to debate someone with zero open mind is useless. You're stuck in your facade and I'll believe what I believe to be true. Have you ever REALLY studied the existence and the proof of the miracles and the eyewitnesses of Jesus resurrection? Most people do not want to believe that that Jesus is the Son Of God, because they have to change their ways. Watch the movie called, A Case For Christ. It's about an atheist coupler and the husband tried to disprove Jesus and all he is and has done, but could only prove. He was the Editor of the Chicago Tribune. No dummy. Oh how he WISHED it wasn't true. Check it out
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 18:23:14 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Sept 19, 2022 18:23:14 GMT -8
That's that? Come on. You know that's bull$#!+. The STORY is that there were 500 people who witnessed the resurrection. That's a story, a myth. HEARSAY is not admissable in court. Try again. You only believe in God and Jesus because you were indoctrinated. You have seen no actual evidence of the existence of God. You have just been told by people you trust that he exists. It's all word of mouth - stories. I posted before how books of the Bible were actually written long after the events supposedly happened. It's the freaking telephone game - the stories got bigger and more outlandish each time they were told! By the time these stories were written down and compiled they had become rather tall tales. Jesus was a superhero! He was Wolverine! Able to regenerate. Seriously, Jesus was the first superhero. A great fictional character that had little resemblance to the real person he was based on. It's a cult. There are so many more important things than to argue with the religious zealots. You'll never convince a believer that the Bible is fiction, you'll never get past the facade of scripture itself. Besides, it's very lonely in the "Will a former president be indicted for 3,673,924 crimes" thread. And, it's really difficult to change someone's heart that's been so hardened by the worldly ways. Also, this actually THEE most important thing in someone's life since it controls what happens to you after you die. You and others had better hope you're correct, but I'm sorry to say you're not.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 18:39:06 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by aztecryan on Sept 19, 2022 18:39:06 GMT -8
There are so many more important things than to argue with the religious zealots. You'll never convince a believer that the Bible is fiction, you'll never get past the facade of scripture itself. Besides, it's very lonely in the "Will a former president be indicted for 3,673,924 crimes" thread. And, it's really difficult to change someone's heart that's been so hardened by the worldly ways. Also, this actually THEE most important thing in someone's life since it controls what happens to you after you die. You and others had better hope you're correct, but I'm sorry to say you're not. When you die, you're dead.
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