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Jesus
Aug 18, 2022 23:14:42 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Aug 18, 2022 23:14:42 GMT -8
If anyone would like to debate/have a friendly conversation about him, and Christianity in general, I would love to engage with you. Peace.
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Jesus
Aug 19, 2022 8:13:49 GMT -8
Post by azson on Aug 19, 2022 8:13:49 GMT -8
If anyone would like to debate/have a friendly conversation about him, and Christianity in general, I would love to engage with you. Peace. Happy to! This is NOT directed at you by any means, but my biggest issue with many "Christians" (and religion in general) is they like to cherry pick from their scripture when it suits them, e.g. how many "Christians" are blatantly bigoted, when that flies in the face of everything Jesus stood for.
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Jesus
Aug 19, 2022 9:21:49 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Aug 19, 2022 9:21:49 GMT -8
If anyone would like to debate/have a friendly conversation about him, and Christianity in general, I would love to engage with you. Peace. Happy to! This is NOT directed at you by any means, but my biggest issue with many "Christians" (and religion in general) is they like to cherry pick from their scripture when it suits them, e.g. how many "Christians" are blatantly bigoted, when that flies in the face of everything Jesus stood for. Cool!!! Thanks for responding. Yes, that is a big issue and it gives Christians and other Religions a bad name when people do this. My first question is, are you a Christian?
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Jesus
Aug 19, 2022 9:38:10 GMT -8
Post by azson on Aug 19, 2022 9:38:10 GMT -8
Happy to! This is NOT directed at you by any means, but my biggest issue with many "Christians" (and religion in general) is they like to cherry pick from their scripture when it suits them, e.g. how many "Christians" are blatantly bigoted, when that flies in the face of everything Jesus stood for. Cool!!! Thanks for responding. Yes, that is a big issue and it gives Christians and other Religions a bad name when people do this. My first question is, are you a Christian? No, my parents did not like their religious upbringing (Episcopal/Christian Science) and so other than having me baptized (to make my grandparents happy) did not raise me religiously. I do believe in a higher power and I’m a big fan of theosophy, i.e. I believe all religions have at least a kernel of goodness at their core, where being a good human and loving all living things is paramount – Jesus perfectly encapsulates that theory and if he existed I’m a big fan. Unfortunately, as I alluded to in my OP, many so-called Christians bastardize him and his teachings to fit their bigoted narrative.
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Jesus
Aug 19, 2022 14:24:46 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Aug 19, 2022 14:24:46 GMT -8
Cool!!! Thanks for responding. Yes, that is a big issue and it gives Christians and other Religions a bad name when people do this. My first question is, are you a Christian? No, my parents did not like their religious upbringing (Episcopal/Christian Science) and so other than having me baptized (to make my grandparents happy) did not raise me religiously. I do believe in a higher power and I’m a big fan of theosophy, i.e. I believe all religions have at least a kernel of goodness at their core, where being a good human and loving all living things is paramount – Jesus perfectly encapsulates that theory and if he existed I’m a big fan. Unfortunately, as I alluded to in my OP, many so-called Christians bastardize him and his teachings to fit their bigoted narrative. Ok. For me, I was raised Christian and always believed in Christianity, but didn't always live it to the best of my ability. Now, I try my best to live a life of Christianity, but fall short at times. I believe in the Bible, and what Jesus and the Bible tells me is that if I don't repent of my past sins, and have a relationship with Jesus, and believe in Jesus, you will not get into Heaven. I do not judge ANYBODY along those beliefs, since I let Jesus do the judging. After I investigated other religions along the way, I found that Christianity has the most proof of truth than any other religions. Jesus gave all of us the freedom of choice, and when it comes down to it, he doesn't want anybody that doesn't ultimately want him. Jesus is love, and that's what needs to be spread. This forum tests me a lot, and I fall short here A LOT. There's a devil on earth that will test you, and you have a choice to give in, or not.
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Jesus
Aug 19, 2022 14:33:06 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Aug 19, 2022 14:33:06 GMT -8
There's a REALLY good movie called "A Case for Christ." A true story. In short, it's about a couple who were staunch Atheists, but after a tragic event the wife becomes a Christian which really upset her husband who is the Editor of the Chicago Tribune at the time, which is one of the biggest Newspapers in the world. He takes a month or so off work to try to disprove Jesus/Christianity by going to different Countries such as Israel, Italy, etc, to investigate, but only comes out of it proving that Jesus was resurrected and true in all ways and he's now a Christian Apologist who speaks every where. The Movie takes you on a journey of the proof.
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Jesus
Aug 20, 2022 8:30:06 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 20, 2022 8:30:06 GMT -8
There's a REALLY good movie called "A Case for Christ." A true story. In short, it's about a couple who were staunch Atheists, but after a tragic event the wife becomes a Christian which really upset her husband who is the Editor of the Chicago Tribune at the time, which is one of the biggest Newspapers in the world. He takes a month or so off work to try to disprove Jesus/Christianity by going to different Countries such as Israel, Italy, etc, to investigate, but only comes out of it proving that Jesus was resurrected and true in all ways and he's now a Christian Apologist who speaks every where. The Movie takes you on a journey of the proof. You can't prove a negative. You cannot prove that God doesn't exist, but at the same time you cannot prove that God does exist. I always come back to this question - if there is a God, where did God come from?
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Jesus
Aug 20, 2022 8:33:58 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 20, 2022 8:33:58 GMT -8
As for the Bible - it's fiction.
Written at least 3 generations after the death of Jesus. Telephone game. Transcribed tales of wonder, passed on and elaborated on each time.
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Jesus
Sept 16, 2022 19:13:23 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 16, 2022 19:13:23 GMT -8
There's a REALLY good movie called "A Case for Christ." A true story. In short, it's about a couple who were staunch Atheists, but after a tragic event the wife becomes a Christian which really upset her husband who is the Editor of the Chicago Tribune at the time, which is one of the biggest Newspapers in the world. He takes a month or so off work to try to disprove Jesus/Christianity by going to different Countries such as Israel, Italy, etc, to investigate, but only comes out of it proving that Jesus was resurrected and true in all ways and he's now a Christian Apologist who speaks every where. The Movie takes you on a journey of the proof. You can't prove a negative. You cannot prove that God doesn't exist, but at the same time you cannot prove that God does exist. I always come back to this question - if there is a God, where did God come from? God is eternal. He has always existed. Something always existing is hard to envision, but I think it is true. My reasoning goes something like this: Out of nothing comes actually nothing. We do have something (the universe) Therefore, there never was nothing (or we would have nothing) Therefore, there has always been something. Therefore something is eternal. In other words, you have to believe in something being eternal, or you have to believe in actually nothing giving rise to something.
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Jesus
Sept 17, 2022 18:45:54 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 17, 2022 18:45:54 GMT -8
You can't prove a negative. You cannot prove that God doesn't exist, but at the same time you cannot prove that God does exist. I always come back to this question - if there is a God, where did God come from? God is eternal. He has always existed. Something always existing is hard to envision, but I think it is true. My reasoning goes something like this: Out of nothing comes actually nothing. We do have something (the universe) Therefore, there never was nothing (or we would have nothing) Therefore, there has always been something. Therefore something is eternal. In other words, you have to believe in something being eternal, or you have to believe in actually nothing giving rise to something. Nothing always exists. Cause and effect. Nothing always exists. If God existed, it would have to come from somewhere. There is ZERO evidence of the existence of God. There is a ton of evidence of a scientific, natural origin of the universe. Every year scientists learn more and can explain more about the universe. God was invented at a time when mankind could explain nothing when it came to existence. It was all superstition. Explaining everything through the perceived existence of God was the only way that primitive people could understand how the universe worked.
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Jesus
Sept 17, 2022 19:29:13 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 17, 2022 19:29:13 GMT -8
What existed prior to nothing? Or do you believe something came from actually nothing?
EDIT: I think I mis-read your post.
You believe nothing always existed and something came from nothing?
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Jesus
Sept 18, 2022 0:19:40 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 18, 2022 0:19:40 GMT -8
What existed prior to nothing? Or do you believe something came from actually nothing? EDIT: I think I mis-read your post. You believe nothing always existed and something came from nothing? Where did God come from, and where is the evidence that God exists? We have evidence that the universe exists, and that it started with the Big Bang. There is actual physical evidence of that, and scientists understand more every year about how the physics of that worked. We can't explain it all yet, but give us a few hundred more years and we'll have a really good idea. Right now there are compelling theories that have strong scientific bases for them. There are no compelling theories for the existence of God. Just word of mouth that started at a time when people thought the sun revolved around the Earth. Word of mouth from a time of massive superstition because people couldn't explain anything in the physical world except in terms of superstition or magic - thus the creation of God.
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Jesus
Sept 18, 2022 7:54:36 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 18, 2022 7:54:36 GMT -8
You stated that: "I always come back to this question - if there is a God, where did God come from?" and later, " If God existed, it would have to come from somewhere."
I'm demonstrating that SOMETHING has to be eternal. SOMETHING has always existed.
OR
SOMETHING actually came from actually NOTHING. Which doesn't seem possible.
So your objection to God being eternal doesn't seem to stand (in that God could be the SOMETHING that is eternal or it could be SOMETHING else).
Unless you believe that SOMETHING came from NOTHING. Then you have an "eternal nothing" giving rise to SOMETHING. Which again, doesn't seem reasonable.
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Jesus
Sept 18, 2022 23:22:44 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 18, 2022 23:22:44 GMT -8
You stated that: "I always come back to this question - if there is a God, where did God come from?" and later, " If God existed, it would have to come from somewhere." I'm demonstrating that SOMETHING has to be eternal. SOMETHING has always existed. OR SOMETHING actually came from actually NOTHING. Which doesn't seem possible. So your objection to God being eternal doesn't seem to stand (in that God could be the SOMETHING that is eternal or it could be SOMETHING else). Unless you believe that SOMETHING came from NOTHING. Then you have an "eternal nothing" giving rise to SOMETHING. Which again, doesn't seem reasonable. OK, so are you saying you believe in a magic man/being in the sky who created everything and looks over all of creation with his magic powers? I mean, that is the kind of stuff people believed in 2,000+ years ago because we just had no idea how the universe worked. Science was non-existent for the most part. Physics was not something that people could understand. Let's face it, you have no reason to believe in God other than what people have told you. There is no evidence of the existence of a God. None. Just word of mouth starting back several thousand years ago when people didn't know any better. Back when people NEEDED a God to help them understand the world they lived in. We don't need that anymore. Science has advanced to the point where believing in God is just silly. It's a made up fable that has continued long past it's usefulness.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 5:21:29 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 19, 2022 5:21:29 GMT -8
No,I am saying that the question you always come back to, "who made God?" is not a reasonable objection to the existence of God. You either also believe in something being eternal, or you believe nothing gave rise to something.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 8:16:17 GMT -8
Post by vodooo on Sept 19, 2022 8:16:17 GMT -8
Okay
What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that he simply does not exists at all? And that we created him so that we would not feel so small and alone.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 15:10:45 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by johneaztec on Sept 19, 2022 15:10:45 GMT -8
Okay What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that he simply does not exists at all? And that we created him so that we would not feel so small and alone. What makes more sense, that God created the universe and all it's intricacies, such as nobody has the same finger prints, if the earth and sun were at a minute amount away from each other it wouldn't work, and soooo many more examples, or the ridiculous "big bang theory." So many things here on earth have to work in sync to stay alive it's insurmountable. His proof of existence, amongst other things, was in his son Jesus Christ when he gave up his life to save humanity from the inevitable, horrible existence of Hell for eternity.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 15:15:38 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 15:15:38 GMT -8
No,I am saying that the question you always come back to, "who made God?" is not a reasonable objection to the existence of God. You either also believe in something being eternal, or you believe nothing gave rise to something. That's just a question of logic. Beyond that, there is ZERO evidence of God, while there is physical evidence that there is a scientific explanation/cause of the beginning of the universe.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 15:23:56 GMT -8
Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 19, 2022 15:23:56 GMT -8
Okay What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that he simply does not exists at all? And that we created him so that we would not feel so small and alone. What makes more sense, that God created the universe and all it's intricacies, such as nobody has the same finger prints, if the earth and sun were at a minute amount away from each other it wouldn't work, and soooo many more examples, or the ridiculous "big bang theory." So many things here on earth have to work in sync to stay alive it's insurmountable. Oh. My. God. Really? Are you that superstitous, that frightened by the unknown that you need a God to protect you? Guess what? In the QUADRILLIONS of planets out there, life starting on just .00001% of them means millions of planets with life. Tens of millions, probably. Science gives you the ansswers. You choose not to accept it. How dark ages of you. No wonder you believe in myth. Please. Stop. There is ZERO proof that Jesus was anything more than just another human being. Nothing more. Second - "Amongst other things." What other things? What physical, empirical evidence are you talking about? Word of mouth, stories, and legends don't count.
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Jesus
Sept 19, 2022 15:50:06 GMT -8
Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 19, 2022 15:50:06 GMT -8
No,I am saying that the question you always come back to, "who made God?" is not a reasonable objection to the existence of God. You either also believe in something being eternal, or you believe nothing gave rise to something. That's just a question of logic. Beyond that, there is ZERO evidence of God, while there is physical evidence that there is a scientific explanation/cause of the beginning of the universe. So you agree, that for God to exist, he doesn't have to have been created, correct? And you believe that the universe began to exist, correct?
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