|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 13, 2022 8:28:11 GMT -8
If your source is Newsmax, I'm just going to laugh. A complete farce of an organization. The cases are significantly different. Clinton was of course never president, a fact that the right just loves to ignore. Trump took hard copy documents clearly marked "classified" or "top secret" from the White House. "When classified information was clearly involved, Blanton said Clinton’s "briefings were on a different system, a classified Blackberry that was managed by State Department IT people." Clinton’s emails included moments when staffers wrote that for them to go into more detail, they would need to switch to a secure classified State Department system. Moss cautioned that while some documents at Mar-a-Lago were clearly marked as classified, many questions remain, such as "where the records were originally located, who boxed them up, when Trump became aware of the existence of the records at Mar-a-Lago, and what, if any, efforts Trump took to rectify the situation once he was informed." www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/08/12/politifact-comparing-hillary-clintons-emails-donald-trumps-files/65400078007/The subpoena in June was issued after months of efforts to gain back national security documents through more private channels. Garland greenlit the warrant because he believed there was probable cause that a crime had occurred. Warrants are broad on purpose, but the search was limited to any storage rooms or rooms that the president/staff would store things in. Acting like this is some kind of vengeful witch hunt by Garland lacks any merit. Maybe, just maybe...a career criminal is a criminal still. Hate to interrupt your rhetorical fallacy but the point came from Alan Dershowitz, not Newsmax. You can even see Weissman commenting on the implications of using the subpoena vs warrant and, having TDS, he was all for the warrant for obvious reasons. I can read, so I know who made the point. Alan Dershowitz was on the Trump legal team for his impeachment trial. He's supposed to be trusted? His opinion is his own, it's not gospel here. He's wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by North County Aztec on Aug 13, 2022 8:39:17 GMT -8
If the alleged classified documents contained top secret nuclear data and if the data is a perceived a national security threat, then it becomes curious that the warrant was issued on Friday, yet the raid was conducted on Monday. It seems reasonable to understand the facts otherwise it is speculative at best. Now we know Obama has over 30 million documents. Classified or not why in the world does any president need to hold on to documents? Certainly not a single president needs bedtime reading. The warrant was issued Friday, the search was conducted Monday. In between there was a thing called the weekend. Trump wasn't even in residence, he watched remotely from New York as the search took place. Unless they had imminent suspicion that Trump was going to destroy sensitive material from half the country away, it means nothing. And no, Obama doesn't have 30 million pages of anything. Stop believing every Facebook meme you see.This is about Donald Trump. It's already known he destroyed documents while in the White House. Removing top secret documents to a private residence is a violation of the PRA and failing to comply with a subpoena is also illegal. Never saw it on FB. It has been widely suggested from dozens of sources. Google it. Here's just one. Barack Obama trucked 30 million pages of his administration’s records to Chicago, promising to digitize them and eventually put them online nypost.com/2022/08/09/fbi-trump-raid-exposes-washingtons-secrecy-shams/ |
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 13, 2022 8:46:17 GMT -8
The warrant was issued Friday, the search was conducted Monday. In between there was a thing called the weekend. Trump wasn't even in residence, he watched remotely from New York as the search took place. Unless they had imminent suspicion that Trump was going to destroy sensitive material from half the country away, it means nothing. And no, Obama doesn't have 30 million pages of anything. Stop believing every Facebook meme you see.This is about Donald Trump. It's already known he destroyed documents while in the White House. Removing top secret documents to a private residence is a violation of the PRA and failing to comply with a subpoena is also illegal. Never saw it on FB. It has been widely suggested from dozens of sources. Google it. Here's just one. Barack Obama trucked 30 million pages of his administration’s records to Chicago, promising to digitize them and eventually put them online nypost.com/2022/08/09/fbi-trump-raid-exposes-washingtons-secrecy-shams/(That was a joke, just so you know) - An opinion piece in the Post isn't going to "trump" the National Archives. But here's a source directly refuting that opinion post. www.businessinsider.com/why-obama-allowed-take-white-house-records-but-not-trump-2022-8 |
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 13, 2022 9:02:47 GMT -8
Hence the need for the warrant and why it was executed.
|
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 13, 2022 16:15:02 GMT -8
This is obstruction of justice.
|
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 13, 2022 20:01:46 GMT -8
Rand Paul is such a disgrace.
|
|
|
|
Post by sdsustoner on Aug 14, 2022 4:37:44 GMT -8
😂 🤣 @ when the MAGA Cult makes exceptions for their love of law enforcement...
...only when it negatively affects them
Also 😂 🤣 @ the Blue Maga Clowns who "think" the FBI are the good guys for doing one thing they agree with politically
F'n Cults...that is what our two-party system created. Two equally clownish cults
|
|
|
|
Post by sdsustoner on Aug 14, 2022 4:41:21 GMT -8
Criminality requires intent (so reminded Comey) and with the Banana Republic optics, the Abuse of Power (using a Warrant vs a Subpoena), the unfairness (using a Magistrate that recused himself in a politically partisan case previously and the broad vs narrow nature of the warrant), the record of cooperation (See the June Subpoena and FBI visit), the timing (as the Soviet style J6 hearings are failing), the exonerating issue (being that the docs in question may actually be defacto unclassified by Trump), I think the best thing that could happen to Trump is for him to be arrested for generally the same violations that Hillary was cleared of before the 2016 election. In that case, Trump may or may not be able to win in the court of law, but if he did win, his martyr status would be huge and redemptive. And if he did get covicted, the distrust of the Democrats and the Deep State would be so complete, we wouldn't have to see the Democrats in power for a long time thereafter and we might actually might get structural change to the Federal Government by Democrat lifer we generally live with now (but I wouldn't hold my breath). Absolute power corrupts absolutely. pure $#!+ on your part. Deep State and your other talking points are pure $#!+. You'd support Hitler if he was on "your side"! Hitler is actually on his side... dude, is a fascist |
|
|
|
Post by sdsustoner on Aug 14, 2022 4:50:11 GMT -8
I can't believe Muricans are so ignorant of history that we're wondering how & why we got here when we have the Weimar Republic to study
What's really tragically ironic about this is the Nazis emulated America. They admired the efficient way Muricans committed genocide during their imperial march and how we propagandized it as God's Will and made it all about some Myth of FreeDumb.
The Nazis also admired and emulated our propaganda. Hell, Goebbels was a straight up fan boy of Edward Bernays. Goebbels even tried to create a Nazi Hollywood since he saw what the US did with manufacturing consent thru entertainment.
And here we are repeating a history that was ironically inspired by us because we don't know any better
|
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 14, 2022 8:26:14 GMT -8
Informative read here explaining the background of the warrant process and what the DOJ has to prove if they charge Trump with a crime.
|
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 14, 2022 16:14:50 GMT -8
So this basically eliminates the willful ignorance defense with a chain of information that goes back to 2017.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 14, 2022 20:09:57 GMT -8
Trump is a criminal, straight up. He should be in prison.
The fact that he's been able to create this cult of supporters is truly frightening.
The right now supports authoritarian government and fascism. How can you have a functioning government when 40% of the population doesn't want fair and free democracy? They'd rather have a rigged system so their guys can cheat to win. They're good with that.
I don't know how you come back from this. The people on the right are totally brainwashed. Up is down, down is up, right is left, black is white...
Insanity. Reagan would never have supported this. Even Nixon backed down in 1960 and accepted an election result he didn't believe. Nixon resigned from the Presidency when it was clear he got caught and Federal law enforcement had evidence of crimes.
We have more evidence of Trump's crimes now than the Feds had on Nixon in '74.
Only in '74 the Republicans refused to back a criminal. Now? They're beholden to him. Either afraid to anger his supporters (Cult members) or in full support of fascism.
And that's why I'm not a Republican anymore. I have eithics and integrity. They don't.
|
|
|
|
Post by uwphoto on Aug 14, 2022 20:26:10 GMT -8
Trump is a criminal, straight up. He should be in prison. The fact that he's been able to create this cult of supporters is truly frightening. The right now supports authoritarian government and fascism. How can you have a functioning government when 40% of the population doesn't want fair and free democracy? They'd rather have a rigged system so their guys can cheat to win. They're good with that. I don't know how you come back from this. The people on the right are totally brainwashed. Up is down, down is up, right is left, black is white... Insanity. Reagan would never have supported this. Even Nixon backed down in 1960 and accepted an election result he didn't believe. Nixon resigned from the Presidency when it was clear he got caught and Federal law enforcement had evidence of crimes. We have more evidence of Trump's crimes now than the Feds had on Nixon in '74. Only in '74 the Republicans refused to back a criminal. Now? They're beholden to him. Either afraid to anger his supporters (Cult members) or in full support of fascism. And that's why I'm not a Republican anymore. I have eithics and integrity. They don't. "Truly frightening"...yes. I wonder what the cult would do if trump told them .....for example..to go to war? If 900 people drank the purple stuff...what would the fringe do if trump ordered them.. |
|
|
|
Post by sdsustoner on Aug 15, 2022 2:57:33 GMT -8
Trump is a criminal, straight up. He should be in prison. The fact that he's been able to create this cult of supporters is truly frightening. The right now supports authoritarian government and fascism. How can you have a functioning government when 40% of the population doesn't want fair and free democracy? They'd rather have a rigged system so their guys can cheat to win. They're good with that. I don't know how you come back from this. The people on the right are totally brainwashed. Up is down, down is up, right is left, black is white... Insanity. Reagan would never have supported this. Even Nixon backed down in 1960 and accepted an election result he didn't believe. Nixon resigned from the Presidency when it was clear he got caught and Federal law enforcement had evidence of crimes. We have more evidence of Trump's crimes now than the Feds had on Nixon in '74. Only in '74 the Republicans refused to back a criminal. Now? They're beholden to him. Either afraid to anger his supporters (Cult members) or in full support of fascism. And that's why I'm not a Republican anymore. I have eithics and integrity. They don't. There's two major political cults. Republicans are one. Democrats are the other. Ya know ya can't have fascism without enablers. The Nazis had Social Democrats aka Liberals. The Magas have Democrats aka Liberals. We got Biden who is further right than Nixon ever was. The architect of our current police state is the POTUS. Dems rigged their primary during a racial protests involving police abusing their powers that Biden gave them. |
|
|
|
Post by sdsustoner on Aug 15, 2022 2:59:17 GMT -8
Trump is a criminal, straight up. He should be in prison. The fact that he's been able to create this cult of supporters is truly frightening. The right now supports authoritarian government and fascism. How can you have a functioning government when 40% of the population doesn't want fair and free democracy? They'd rather have a rigged system so their guys can cheat to win. They're good with that. I don't know how you come back from this. The people on the right are totally brainwashed. Up is down, down is up, right is left, black is white... Insanity. Reagan would never have supported this. Even Nixon backed down in 1960 and accepted an election result he didn't believe. Nixon resigned from the Presidency when it was clear he got caught and Federal law enforcement had evidence of crimes. We have more evidence of Trump's crimes now than the Feds had on Nixon in '74. Only in '74 the Republicans refused to back a criminal. Now? They're beholden to him. Either afraid to anger his supporters (Cult members) or in full support of fascism. And that's why I'm not a Republican anymore. I have eithics and integrity. They don't. "Truly frightening"...yes. I wonder what the cult would do if trump told them .....for example..to go to war? If 900 people drank the purple stuff...what would the fringe do if trump ordered them.. Trump told them to do Jan 6 I still 😂 🤣 at the image of Maga Cultists attacking cops while holding a Blue Lives Matter flag 😂 |
|
|
|
Post by aztecryan on Aug 15, 2022 10:23:11 GMT -8
Donald is blasting away on Truth Social that three of his passports were seized during the "raid."
|
|
|
|
Post by bnastyaztecs on Aug 15, 2022 15:45:12 GMT -8
😂 🤣 @ when the MAGA Cult makes exceptions for their love of law enforcement... ...only when it negatively affects them Also 😂 🤣 @ the Blue Maga Clowns who "think" the FBI are the good guys for doing one thing they agree with politically F'n Cults...that is what our two-party system created. Two equally clownish cults I always see you dragging on the two-party system. Well there's a reason it exist...human nature...here are some excerpts from my master's thesis that explains why that is: "The book, The Limits of Policy Changes: Incrementalism, Worldview, and the Rule of Law, by Michael T. Hays, makes a case that in order for policy to come into being, it will have to do so at a slow pace. When negotiating with various interests and personalities, there will be bargaining, compromise—partisan mutual adjustment—and delays to any proposal agreement. Therefore, Hays argues, policy only comes about at an incremental pace." "He says the alternatives, such as “comprehensive” or rational decision making, is not acceptable because of policy opposition and the inability to know exactly how a policy will work (3)." "Hays explains the reason for policy conflicts is the differing “worldviews” of those who create it. He breaks the worldviews down into categories and explains their rational." " Rationalist, he says, “regards mankind as fundamentally altruistic and ultimately perfectible” (9). They believe humans can overcome all obstacles to solve mankind's problems. Solutions to problems come about “only through reason-not through tradition or custom” (9). Instead of partisan mutual adjustment, those who fall into this category believe solutions do not come from a group, but from a charismatic personality capable of persuading the masses. Contrariwise, there are anti-rationalist. " Anti-rationalists, Hays says, do not believe a charismatic personality has the answer because man is “fallible and self-interested” (10). They feel knowledge should be spread “throughout economic and social systems.” To them rationality is systemic. They believe in "superior systems" that have stood the test of time i.e. traditions, norms and institutions (10). Anti-rationalists feel problems can only be made better, but will never fully go away because of man's fallibility and self-interest." "Overall, Hays says rationalists feel the government plays a vital role in people's lives and should “seek to expand the power and autonomy of the state” (11). In this way, citizens are free to be all they can because the government makes the playing field level. On the other hand, anti-rationalists say government should play no role in people's lives because of its corrosive effect. They define freedom as only that under the law: “impersonal and general rules apply equally to all” (11). Anti-rationalists do believe in equal treatment, but not in mandatory equality of results. They feel the only way to attain equality of results is by violating someone else's principles (11). This is why they feel there needs to be constraints on government power. "Hays postulates the two differing viewpoints results in the rationalist imposing its will on the anti-rationalist to fulfill the rationalist’s “dreams.” The conflicting viewpoints create an American system of liberal and conservative wings that are “accountable to entirely different constituencies” (13). This is why persuasion, bargaining, and consensus are paramount in the American system (16)." "For some, though, the piecemeal manner is unacceptable. He calls this category “ utopian visionaries.” People in this category “resent any political institution” that hinders or plays lip service to the immediate change they seek (29)." I hope that explains the two-party system and your disdain for it...most people are either rationalist or anti-rationalist...it s hard-wired into our psyche...either you believe in government...or you don't.... |
|
|
|
Post by sdsustoner on Aug 16, 2022 5:51:45 GMT -8
😂 🤣 @ when the MAGA Cult makes exceptions for their love of law enforcement... ...only when it negatively affects them Also 😂 🤣 @ the Blue Maga Clowns who "think" the FBI are the good guys for doing one thing they agree with politically F'n Cults...that is what our two-party system created. Two equally clownish cults I always see you dragging on the two-party system. Well there's a reason it exist...human nature...here are some excerpts from my master's thesis that explains why that is: "The book, The Limits of Policy Changes: Incrementalism, Worldview, and the Rule of Law, by Michael T. Hays, makes a case that in order for policy to come into being, it will have to do so at a slow pace. When negotiating with various interests and personalities, there will be bargaining, compromise—partisan mutual adjustment—and delays to any proposal agreement. Therefore, Hays argues, policy only comes about at an incremental pace." "He says the alternatives, such as “comprehensive” or rational decision making, is not acceptable because of policy opposition and the inability to know exactly how a policy will work (3)." "Hays explains the reason for policy conflicts is the differing “worldviews” of those who create it. He breaks the worldviews down into categories and explains their rational." " Rationalist, he says, “regards mankind as fundamentally altruistic and ultimately perfectible” (9). They believe humans can overcome all obstacles to solve mankind's problems. Solutions to problems come about “only through reason-not through tradition or custom” (9). Instead of partisan mutual adjustment, those who fall into this category believe solutions do not come from a group, but from a charismatic personality capable of persuading the masses. Contrariwise, there are anti-rationalist. " Anti-rationalists, Hays says, do not believe a charismatic personality has the answer because man is “fallible and self-interested” (10). They feel knowledge should be spread “throughout economic and social systems.” To them rationality is systemic. They believe in "superior systems" that have stood the test of time i.e. traditions, norms and institutions (10). Anti-rationalists feel problems can only be made better, but will never fully go away because of man's fallibility and self-interest." "Overall, Hays says rationalists feel the government plays a vital role in people's lives and should “seek to expand the power and autonomy of the state” (11). In this way, citizens are free to be all they can because the government makes the playing field level. On the other hand, anti-rationalists say government should play no role in people's lives because of its corrosive effect. They define freedom as only that under the law: “impersonal and general rules apply equally to all” (11). Anti-rationalists do believe in equal treatment, but not in mandatory equality of results. They feel the only way to attain equality of results is by violating someone else's principles (11). This is why they feel there needs to be constraints on government power. "Hays postulates the two differing viewpoints results in the rationalist imposing its will on the anti-rationalist to fulfill the rationalist’s “dreams.” The conflicting viewpoints create an American system of liberal and conservative wings that are “accountable to entirely different constituencies” (13). This is why persuasion, bargaining, and consensus are paramount in the American system (16)." "For some, though, the piecemeal manner is unacceptable. He calls this category “ utopian visionaries.” People in this category “resent any political institution” that hinders or plays lip service to the immediate change they seek (29)." I hope that explains the two-party system and your disdain for it...most people are either rationalist or anti-rationalist...it s hard-wired into our psyche...either you believe in government...or you don't.... I get the POV thru the rationalist vs anti-rationalist argument you presented. However, if the 2 party system can be explained simply by human nature, then 1. Why is this not the standard system globally rather than being a rarity? 2. Why is it the duopoly has to rig the system further to perpetuate the two-party system with their laws to make it more difficult for a 3rd party to rise and thru propaganda? Also, isn't it twisted the Lib vs Con in the USA involved government in either producing their ideal state whether thru economics like wage increases or wedge issues like continuing to ban gay marriage? So they both desire government intervention when it suits their best interests. Hell, conservatives love weaponizing the government against people who might just simply look differently than they do How does the rationalist vs anti-rationalist POV digest that? |
|
|
|
Post by bnastyaztecs on Aug 16, 2022 8:45:53 GMT -8
1. Why is this not the standard system globally rather than being a rarity?
Most democracies have a multi-party system that fall into conservative and liberal wings...for example Israel is a multi-party (more than two) system based on religious (conservative) and secular (liberal) wings...Likud and Labour are its two major parties...the lesser parties side with one or the other...the same with England...Labour and Conservative parties are the dominants...authoritarian and dictatorships in the rest doesn't mean the people believe in government or not...they are just not in position to exercise their ideology.
2. Why is it the duopoly has to rig the system further to perpetuate the two-party system with their laws to make it more difficult for a 3rd party to rise and thru propaganda?
The system is not rigged...there are more than two parties in America...Democratic, Republican, Libertarian and the Green Party...all four are based on either conservative or liberal ideologies (rational/anti-rational)...it's just the two main parties have had time and money to build their brand/systems over time...they've had the resources to get their message (propaganda) out to the masses...thus it's just harder for a 3rd party to rise due to the lack money, name recognition to promote/support their ideology and candidates...nothing is stopping you from forming the Stoner Utopian party...nothing...you can get your funds up...go down to the Federal Election Commission and do so today...so why won't the voters vote for you even though you have great ideas?...MONEY...you may have the greatest ideas that will save the world...but no one will ever know because it cost great sums to blanket the airwaves...that's the advantage Dems and Repubs have...lastly, Libs and Cons are just playing by the rules of the game...policymaking is complicated...it's based on numerous variables...this is what I wrote my thesis on...policy agenda setting and denial...the strategies and tactics for getting what you want done while stopping the another from getting theirs...messaging, stakeholders, subsystems, iron-triangles, focusing events, punctuated equilibrium, garbage-can model...and on and on...all play a role in policymaking...it's tough to do...therefore...a lot of nothing gets done...when it does...it is either by majority domination...or compromise....
Now my opinion is that since the Civil Rights Act...there has been two choices...democracy and white supremacy...Dems are for democracy for all people...Republicans want it just for whites...before CRA...it was just whites arguing and compromising...thus they might've disagreed...but it was all for white advantage...since...it's been multi-race vs white supremacy...democracy doesn't matter to white supremacists...they don't want any policies that benefit non-whites...thus they are using the established political rules (stratigies/tactics) to deny Blacks, Hispanics and others of anything that diminishes white advantage...they hate gays because they are not helping to increase the dwindling white population...which is the same reason they are anti-abortion...so the country is now at a crossroad...is it a white-dominated nation or multi-race one...as to whether democracy is trashed and Balkanization (civil war) prevails....
|
|
|
|
Post by aardvark on Aug 16, 2022 15:10:50 GMT -8
Donald is blasting away on Truth Social that three of his passports were seized during the "raid." They were taken. And then returned. Interesting as to why they were taken in the first place. |
|
