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Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 12, 2022 13:08:44 GMT -8
OK, this is a separate issue from the coup/insurrection.
As of now the search warrant has been unsealed, and it appears that Top Secret (most highly classified) documents were included, including information about nuclear weapons, was taken illegally to Mar-a-Lago by Trump as his term in office ended.
This is really serious. Trump blatantly and flagranty violated the law as he had no business having ANY classified documents at his home after his term in office ended. (Actually, some of these documents should never have been taken there even while he WAS President.)
Trump is in serious trouble.
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Post by azson on Aug 12, 2022 13:15:45 GMT -8
Perhaps THIS will finally be The Teflon Don's downfall - I know, wishful thinking probably...
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 12, 2022 13:19:20 GMT -8
Perhaps THIS will finally be The Teflon Don's downfall - I know, wishful thinking probably... I'm following it on TV, and Trump claimed he declassified the documents on his way out the door, but there's a procedure/process that is required, and he didn't follow it, so the documents that COULD have been declassified weren't, and it looks like there are a bunch of documents that fall in the most highly classified status, and those can't be declassified. The fact that he had ANY of those documents at Mar-a-Lago after his term ended makes that a crime. The fact that he had most highly clssified documents there makes it espionage and treason. If this were 100 years ago he'd be facing execution for this stuff. |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 13:19:42 GMT -8
Perhaps THIS will finally be The Teflon Don's downfall - I know, wishful thinking probably... For the warrant to carry espionage purposes, there would have to be some credibility shown to a judge of actual espionage. Now that we know at least some of the materials that were seized (The Macron situation is...weird?) - I'm trying to wrap my head around a former president potentially being investigated for espionage. Robert Hansen? Anyone remember that name? |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 13:21:08 GMT -8
Perhaps THIS will finally be The Teflon Don's downfall - I know, wishful thinking probably... I'm following it on TV, and Trump claimed he declassified the documents on his way out the door, but there's a procedure/process that is required, and he didn't follow it, so the documents that COULD have been declassified weren't, and it looks like there are a bunch of documents that fall in the most highly classified status, and those can't be declassified. The fact that he had ANY of those documents at Mar-a-Lago after his term ended makes that a crime. The fact that he had most highly clssified documents there makes it espionage and treason. If this were 100 years ago he'd be facing execution for this stuff. You could still be charged with the death penalty. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 12, 2022 13:53:33 GMT -8
I'm following it on TV, and Trump claimed he declassified the documents on his way out the door, but there's a procedure/process that is required, and he didn't follow it, so the documents that COULD have been declassified weren't, and it looks like there are a bunch of documents that fall in the most highly classified status, and those can't be declassified. The fact that he had ANY of those documents at Mar-a-Lago after his term ended makes that a crime. The fact that he had most highly clssified documents there makes it espionage and treason. If this were 100 years ago he'd be facing execution for this stuff. You could still be charged with the death penalty. Unless they've got evidence of him selling this info to enemy states that wouldn't be the case. If he was trying to sell that stuff, though - WOW. But I doubt that even Trump would be that stupid. |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 12, 2022 14:09:05 GMT -8
I'm following it on TV, and Trump claimed he declassified the documents on his way out the door, but there's a procedure/process that is required, and he didn't follow it, so the documents that COULD have been declassified weren't, and it looks like there are a bunch of documents that fall in the most highly classified status, and those can't be declassified. The fact that he had ANY of those documents at Mar-a-Lago after his term ended makes that a crime. The fact that he had most highly clssified documents there makes it espionage and treason. If this were 100 years ago he'd be facing execution for this stuff. You could still be charged with the death penalty. Amazing (if it happens) that this teflon man may finally face a consequence for the first time in his entire life.. execution by pay per view would be in line with his life history. |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 14:23:38 GMT -8
You could still be charged with the death penalty. Unless they've got evidence of him selling this info to enemy states that wouldn't be the case. If he was trying to sell that stuff, though - WOW. But I doubt that even Trump would be that stupid. Then why have it in the first place, if the allegations are true? Kushner was given $2B by the Saudis a few months after leaving office. Trump just hosted the Saudi contingent at his golf club in New Jersey. He has ties to the Saudi regime going back decades. Is he holding for leverage? There aren't that many explanations. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 12, 2022 14:27:52 GMT -8
Unless they've got evidence of him selling this info to enemy states that wouldn't be the case. If he was trying to sell that stuff, though - WOW. But I doubt that even Trump would be that stupid. Then why have it in the first place, if the allegations are true? Kushner was given $2B by the Saudis a few months after leaving office. Trump just hosted the Saudi contingent at his golf club in New Jersey. He has ties to the Saudi regime going back decades. Is he holding for leverage? There aren't that many explanations. If there is any concrete evidence that copies of those documents were passed to the Saudis the minimum that Trump should get is life in prison without parole. Minimum. How Republicans still follow this man is beyond me. Nixon was a more ethical and honorable man than Trump. Have they really fallen so far that they don't even believe in Democracy and the rule of law anymore? It sure looks that way. |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 14:36:30 GMT -8
Then why have it in the first place, if the allegations are true? Kushner was given $2B by the Saudis a few months after leaving office. Trump just hosted the Saudi contingent at his golf club in New Jersey. He has ties to the Saudi regime going back decades. Is he holding for leverage? There aren't that many explanations. If there is any concrete evidence that copies of those documents were passed to the Saudis the minimum that Trump should get is life in prison without parole. Minimum. How Republicans still follow this man is beyond me. Nixon was a more ethical and honorable man than Trump. Have they really fallen so far that they don't even believe in Democracy and the rule of law anymore? It sure looks that way. Yes. It's all on the script. |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 14:38:14 GMT -8
Useful read here, ironically from Stefanik's opponent.
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 12, 2022 15:07:42 GMT -8
Does anybody know why they didn't take the documents that they found this go around at Mar-a- Lago, and not the first time they went in there?
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 15:24:30 GMT -8
Does anybody know why they didn't take the documents that they found this go around at Mar-a- Lago, and not the first time they went in there? As simple as they probably believed that what they had was all of it and that turned out to be false. |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 12, 2022 15:42:00 GMT -8
Then why have it in the first place, if the allegations are true? Kushner was given $2B by the Saudis a few months after leaving office. Trump just hosted the Saudi contingent at his golf club in New Jersey. He has ties to the Saudi regime going back decades. Is he holding for leverage? There aren't that many explanations. If there is any concrete evidence that copies of those documents were passed to the Saudis the minimum that Trump should get is life in prison without parole. Minimum. How Republicans still follow this man is beyond me. Nixon was a more ethical and honorable man than Trump. Have they really fallen so far that they don't even believe in Democracy and the rule of law anymore? It sure looks that way. It all goes back to "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue" he knew it.. trump obviously studied Limbaugh and knew that if you gave them what they wanted to hear..you would have them eating out of your hand. Myself ...and others on this forum said it from day 1. There is no surprise with this guy and how he manipulates the Right. So now that he owns the base like Jim Jones owned his people..... the other right wingers and politicians are so afraid if this 25 to 30% ..that they will (against their personal morals and ethics) follow the orange shyster off a cliff if necessary...to the great detriment of America!!! |
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Post by ptsdthor on Aug 12, 2022 16:54:51 GMT -8
Criminality requires intent (so reminded Comey) and with the Banana Republic optics, the Abuse of Power (using a Warrant vs a Subpoena), the unfairness (using a Magistrate that recused himself in a politically partisan case previously and the broad vs narrow nature of the warrant), the record of cooperation (See the June Subpoena and FBI visit), the timing (as the Soviet style J6 hearings are failing), the exonerating issue (being that the docs in question may actually be defacto unclassified by Trump), I think the best thing that could happen to Trump is for him to be arrested for generally the same violations that Hillary was cleared of before the 2016 election.
In that case, Trump may or may not be able to win in the court of law, but if he did win, his martyr status would be huge and redemptive.
And if he did get covicted, the distrust of the Democrats and the Deep State would be so complete, we wouldn't have to see the Democrats in power for a long time thereafter and we might actually might get structural change to the Federal Government by Democrat lifer we generally live with now (but I wouldn't hold my breath). Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 17:09:12 GMT -8
Criminality requires intent (so reminded Comey) and with the Banana Republic optics, the Abuse of Power (using a Warrant vs a Subpoena), the unfairness (using a Magistrate that recused himself in a politically partisan case previously and the broad vs narrow nature of the warrant), the record of cooperation (See the June Subpoena and FBI visit), the timing (as the Soviet style J6 hearings are failing), the exonerating issue (being that the docs in question may actually be defacto unclassified by Trump), I think the best thing that could happen to Trump is for him to be arrested for generally the same violations that Hillary was cleared of before the 2016 election. In that case, Trump may or may not be able to win in the court of law, but if he did win, his martyr status would be huge and redemptive. And if he did get covicted, the distrust of the Democrats and the Deep State would be so complete, we wouldn't have to see the Democrats in power for a long time thereafter and we might actually might get structural change to the Federal Government by Democrat lifer we generally live with now (but I wouldn't hold my breath). Absolute power corrupts absolutely. You don't get a warrant without probable cause. A subpoena was already issued months ago, with obvious failures to comply with it. Nobody publicized this but the former president himself. Unfairness? I get that you're not capable of being objective here, but let's not make a mockery out of a serious situation. |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 12, 2022 19:26:10 GMT -8
Criminality requires intent (so reminded Comey) and with the Banana Republic optics, the Abuse of Power (using a Warrant vs a Subpoena), the unfairness (using a Magistrate that recused himself in a politically partisan case previously and the broad vs narrow nature of the warrant), the record of cooperation (See the June Subpoena and FBI visit), the timing (as the Soviet style J6 hearings are failing), the exonerating issue (being that the docs in question may actually be defacto unclassified by Trump), I think the best thing that could happen to Trump is for him to be arrested for generally the same violations that Hillary was cleared of before the 2016 election. In that case, Trump may or may not be able to win in the court of law, but if he did win, his martyr status would be huge and redemptive. And if he did get covicted, the distrust of the Democrats and the Deep State would be so complete, we wouldn't have to see the Democrats in power for a long time thereafter and we might actually might get structural change to the Federal Government by Democrat lifer we generally live with now (but I wouldn't hold my breath). Absolute power corrupts absolutely. pure $#!+ on your part. Deep State and your other talking points are pure $#!+. You'd support Hitler if he was on "your side"! |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 12, 2022 19:45:27 GMT -8
Criminality requires intent (so reminded Comey) and with the Banana Republic optics, the Abuse of Power (using a Warrant vs a Subpoena), the unfairness (using a Magistrate that recused himself in a politically partisan case previously and the broad vs narrow nature of the warrant), the record of cooperation (See the June Subpoena and FBI visit), the timing (as the Soviet style J6 hearings are failing), the exonerating issue (being that the docs in question may actually be defacto unclassified by Trump), I think the best thing that could happen to Trump is for him to be arrested for generally the same violations that Hillary was cleared of before the 2016 election. In that case, Trump may or may not be able to win in the court of law, but if he did win, his martyr status would be huge and redemptive. And if he did get covicted, the distrust of the Democrats and the Deep State would be so complete, we wouldn't have to see the Democrats in power for a long time thereafter and we might actually might get structural change to the Federal Government by Democrat lifer we generally live with now (but I wouldn't hold my breath). Absolute power corrupts absolutely. pure $#!+ on your part. Deep State and your other talking points are pure $#!+. You'd support Hitler if he was on "your side"! Stuff like this isn't constructive or useful. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Aug 12, 2022 19:47:29 GMT -8
Criminality requires intent (so reminded Comey) and with the Banana Republic optics, the Abuse of Power (using a Warrant vs a Subpoena), the unfairness (using a Magistrate that recused himself in a politically partisan case previously and the broad vs narrow nature of the warrant), the record of cooperation (See the June Subpoena and FBI visit), the timing (as the Soviet style J6 hearings are failing), the exonerating issue (being that the docs in question may actually be defacto unclassified by Trump), I think the best thing that could happen to Trump is for him to be arrested for generally the same violations that Hillary was cleared of before the 2016 election. In that case, Trump may or may not be able to win in the court of law, but if he did win, his martyr status would be huge and redemptive. And if he did get covicted, the distrust of the Democrats and the Deep State would be so complete, we wouldn't have to see the Democrats in power for a long time thereafter and we might actually might get structural change to the Federal Government by Democrat lifer we generally live with now (but I wouldn't hold my breath). Absolute power corrupts absolutely. You don't get a warrant without probable cause. A subpoena was already issued months ago, with obvious failures to comply with it. Nobody publicized this but the former president himself. Unfairness? I get that you're not capable of being objective here, but let's not make a mockery out of a serious situation. Just HAVING those documents in his home was a violation of law. Period. Criminality, regardless of intent. DONE. By the way, he didn't have the power to arbitrarily declassify those documents. Fact. There is a process/procedure involved, and he didin't follow it. The President is NOT a King. He doesn't rule by decree. He has to follow the rules, too. He didn't. Trump is guilty of seditious conspiracy, and a number of criminal violations regarding these classified documents. Maybe you don't care about the rule of law, but I do. Trump is NOT above the law. If he were a private citizen he would have been arrested long ago. He is a traitor to both the country and democracy itself, and by having some of these documents in a low security place like his home put people at risk. That is completely unacceptable. Imagine if the parties were reversed. If Trump were a Democrat you'd be calling for him to be strung up. You're a f****** hypocrite. Most Republicans are now. Trump has done things that if he were a Democrat that these Republicans would be shocked, appalled, and outraged by. They would want him locked up if he were a Democrat. Some of them would want him shot. But because he's on THEIR team, and because they've been drinking the f****** Kool-Aid they give him a pass for anything he does. That is some serious bull$#!+. When you put party before country, and party before Democracy you are a BAD person. Despicable. Oh, and, by the way, there is no such thing as, "The Deep State." That is made up paranoid bull$#!+ that Republicans in the media came up with to explain away any wrongdoing by their people. "It wasn't our guy, it was the, "Deep State," framing him." bull$#!+. |
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 12, 2022 20:01:21 GMT -8
You don't get a warrant without probable cause. A subpoena was already issued months ago, with obvious failures to comply with it. Nobody publicized this but the former president himself. Unfairness? I get that you're not capable of being objective here, but let's not make a mockery out of a serious situation. Just HAVING those documents in his home was a violation of law. Period. Criminality, regardless of intent. DONE. By the way, he didn't have the power to arbitrarily declassify those documents. Fact. There is a process/procedure involved, and he didin't follow it. The President is NOT a King. He doesn't rule by decree. He has to follow the rules, too. He didn't. Trump is guilty of seditious conspiracy, and a number of criminal violations regarding these classified documents. Maybe you don't care about the rule of law, but I do. Trump is NOT above the law. If he were a private citizen he would have been arrested long ago. He is a traitor to both the country and democracy itself, and by having some of these documents in a low security place like his home put people at risk. That is completely unacceptable. Imagine if the parties were reversed. If Trump were a Democrat you'd be calling for him to be strung up. You're a f****** hypocrite. Most Republicans are now. Trump has done things that if he were a Democrat that these Republicans would be shocked, appalled, and outraged by. They would want him locked up if he were a Democrat. Some of them would want him shot. But because he's on THEIR team, and because they've been drinking the f****** Kool-Aid they give him a pass for anything he does. That is some serious bull$#!+. When you put party before country, and party before Democracy you are a BAD person. Despicable. Oh, and, by the way, there is no such thing as, "The Deep State." That is made up paranoid bull$#!+ that Republicans in the media came up with to explain away any wrongdoing by their people. "It wasn't our guy, it was the, "Deep State," framing him." bull$#!+. Erik, I think what it may come down to is the legality of whether or not he can declassify them without them being stamped. Is there a loophole for that or not. |
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