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Post by aztecryan on Oct 6, 2021 15:33:22 GMT -8
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Post by azson on Oct 6, 2021 15:57:08 GMT -8
I know we're never going to truly find out exactly what happened with the Scherzer debacle, but it sure would be interesting to know. That fustercluck appeared to be the beginning of the end.
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Post by junior on Oct 6, 2021 16:48:05 GMT -8
Until ownership recognizes the real problem as AJP, the Padres will never maximize their potential. Six years, three managers, zero championship rings.
Wonder if Tingler will hang around … can he pitch?
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Post by aardvark on Oct 6, 2021 16:53:16 GMT -8
Until ownership recognizes the real problem as AJP, the Padres will never maximize their potential. Six years, three managers, zero championship rings. Wonder if Tingler will hang around … can he pitch? Preller was never going anywhere--certainly not after he signed that contract extension (with promotion) before last season.
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Post by junior on Oct 6, 2021 16:58:15 GMT -8
Until ownership recognizes the real problem as AJP, the Padres will never maximize their potential. Six years, three managers, zero championship rings. Wonder if Tingler will hang around … can he pitch? Preller was never going anywhere--certainly not after he signed that contract extension (with promotion) before last season. Most unfortunate, since the likelihood of any real changes occurring while AJP is still running the circus are nil.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 6, 2021 21:00:41 GMT -8
Preller was never going anywhere--certainly not after he signed that contract extension (with promotion) before last season. Most unfortunate, since the likelihood of any real changes occurring while AJP is still running the circus are nil. Then that's on Seidler.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2021 6:51:05 GMT -8
AJ Preller ---- on his third manager hire (4th if you count Murphy, interim --- I dont) and in SIX 162 game seasons not even a single .500 record. I read that in Lin's Athletic piece yesterday and I was like, wow. Didn't realize it. The only season above .500 was last years shortened year.
We know he can build a farm system ---- can he hire the right people in player development, which is REALLY lacking right now.....can he build that?
Doesn't take a ton of genius to take a #1 farm system and trade them to losing teams for veterans, and give out $300MM contracts. It does take an owner w/ deep pockets and willingness to spend.
If you ask me, anything shy of the NLCS in 2022 and you ship his ass out also.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 7, 2021 8:41:46 GMT -8
AJ Preller ---- on his third manager hire (4th if you count Murphy, interim --- I dont) and in SIX 162 game seasons not even a single .500 record. I read that in Lin's Athletic piece yesterday and I was like, wow. Didn't realize it. The only season above .500 was last years shortened year. We know he can build a farm system ---- can he hire the right people in player development, which is REALLY lacking right now.....can he build that? Doesn't take a ton of genius to take a #1 farm system and trade them to losing teams for veterans, and give out $300MM contracts. It does take an owner w/ deep pockets and willingness to spend. If you ask me, anything shy of the NLCS in 2022 and you ship his ass out also. I think you have to divide the Preller Era into two distinct parts. He was hired in 2014, but it was after the MLB Draft and trade deadline, so his impact there was a net zero. So the failed push in 2015 is where it starts for me, which I put more on the doorstep of Ron Fowler's desire to try and make a splash. Having a rookie GM who had been on the job four months make the moves to acquire a failed chemistry expert showed Ron's inability to understand clubhouse dynamics and the balancing act that's required. So everything after 2016 is the dividing line for me - It unfortunately takes time to undo all those moves and the club wasn't trying to be competitive, they were full-on rebuilding and trying to shed salary. Yes, the record isn't pretty, which is the ultimate end game. But I think the biggest indictment is the lack of a winning culture that hasn't been built like you have in LA, Houston, Tampa, etc. You can acquire all the talent and put the pieces in place, but you have to learn *how* to win.
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Post by azson on Oct 7, 2021 9:36:22 GMT -8
AJ Preller ---- on his third manager hire (4th if you count Murphy, interim --- I dont) and in SIX 162 game seasons not even a single .500 record. I read that in Lin's Athletic piece yesterday and I was like, wow. Didn't realize it. The only season above .500 was last years shortened year. We know he can build a farm system ---- can he hire the right people in player development, which is REALLY lacking right now.....can he build that? Doesn't take a ton of genius to take a #1 farm system and trade them to losing teams for veterans, and give out $300MM contracts. It does take an owner w/ deep pockets and willingness to spend. If you ask me, anything shy of the NLCS in 2022 and you ship his ass out also. I think you have to divide the Preller Era into two distinct parts. He was hired in 2014, but it was after the MLB Draft and trade deadline, so his impact there was a net zero. So the failed push in 2015 is where it starts for me, which I put more on the doorstep of Ron Fowler's desire to try and make a splash. Having a rookie GM who had been on the job four months make the moves to acquire a failed chemistry expert showed Ron's inability to understand clubhouse dynamics and the balancing act that's required. So everything after 2016 is the dividing line for me - It unfortunately takes time to undo all those moves and the club wasn't trying to be competitive, they were full-on rebuilding and trying to shed salary. Yes, the record isn't pretty, which is the ultimate end game. But I think the biggest indictment is the lack of a winning culture that hasn't been built like you have in LA, Houston, Tampa, etc. You can acquire all the talent and put the pieces in place, but you have to learn *how* to win.Agreed, but part and parcel of that is hiring the best manager to facilitate that learning process. Hiring an untested buddy (especially in light of his suspect prior hires) seems completely misguided and that should fall squarely in AJP's lap.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 7, 2021 9:48:23 GMT -8
I think you have to divide the Preller Era into two distinct parts. He was hired in 2014, but it was after the MLB Draft and trade deadline, so his impact there was a net zero. So the failed push in 2015 is where it starts for me, which I put more on the doorstep of Ron Fowler's desire to try and make a splash. Having a rookie GM who had been on the job four months make the moves to acquire a failed chemistry expert showed Ron's inability to understand clubhouse dynamics and the balancing act that's required. So everything after 2016 is the dividing line for me - It unfortunately takes time to undo all those moves and the club wasn't trying to be competitive, they were full-on rebuilding and trying to shed salary. Yes, the record isn't pretty, which is the ultimate end game. But I think the biggest indictment is the lack of a winning culture that hasn't been built like you have in LA, Houston, Tampa, etc. You can acquire all the talent and put the pieces in place, but you have to learn *how* to win.Agreed, but part and parcel of that is hiring the best manager to facilitate that learning process. Hiring an untested buddy (especially in light of his suspect prior hires) seems completely misguided and that should fall squarely in AJP's lap. Absolutely.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 7, 2021 10:54:00 GMT -8
I think you have to divide the Preller Era into two distinct parts. He was hired in 2014, but it was after the MLB Draft and trade deadline, so his impact there was a net zero. So the failed push in 2015 is where it starts for me, which I put more on the doorstep of Ron Fowler's desire to try and make a splash. Having a rookie GM who had been on the job four months make the moves to acquire a failed chemistry expert showed Ron's inability to understand clubhouse dynamics and the balancing act that's required. So everything after 2016 is the dividing line for me - It unfortunately takes time to undo all those moves and the club wasn't trying to be competitive, they were full-on rebuilding and trying to shed salary. Yes, the record isn't pretty, which is the ultimate end game. But I think the biggest indictment is the lack of a winning culture that hasn't been built like you have in LA, Houston, Tampa, etc. You can acquire all the talent and put the pieces in place, but you have to learn *how* to win.Agreed, but part and parcel of that is hiring the best manager to facilitate that learning process. Hiring an untested buddy (especially in light of his suspect prior hires) seems completely misguided and that should fall squarely in AJP's lap. I don't believe Jayce was/is the problem. He was qualified to take the job in the same mold that Dave Roberts was or any other rookie manager. He had managed, was an assistant GM and had scouting/player development knowledge. It's about surrounding your manager with the right pieces. THAT was the failure. The rest of the staff, for all their experience, failed miserably to balance the clubhouse.
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Post by azson on Oct 7, 2021 10:56:38 GMT -8
Agreed, but part and parcel of that is hiring the best manager to facilitate that learning process. Hiring an untested buddy (especially in light of his suspect prior hires) seems completely misguided and that should fall squarely in AJP's lap. I don't believe Jayce was/is the problem. He was qualified to take the job in the same mold that Dave Roberts was or any other rookie manager. He had managed, was an assistant GM and had scouting/player development knowledge. It's about surrounding your manager with the right pieces. THAT was the failure. The rest of the staff, for all their experience, failed miserably to balance the clubhouse. Meaning players, asst. coaches or both?
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 7, 2021 11:03:32 GMT -8
I don't believe Jayce was/is the problem. He was qualified to take the job in the same mold that Dave Roberts was or any other rookie manager. He had managed, was an assistant GM and had scouting/player development knowledge. It's about surrounding your manager with the right pieces. THAT was the failure. The rest of the staff, for all their experience, failed miserably to balance the clubhouse. Meaning players, asst. coaches or both? Both. The Padres were second worst in outfield defense, that's Wayne Kirby's purview. They were mostly fine in the infield, save for the trainwreck at first base, that's Bobby Dickerson. Skip Schumaker was the associate head coach but seemed to have zero clubhouse presence. And then the massive amount of injuries falls on the strength and conditioning/training staff, along with some bad fortune. Jayce's a smart guy, he'll be successful down the road. He was the necessary fall guy here, but he wasn't the problem.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 7, 2021 15:44:35 GMT -8
Meaning players, asst. coaches or both? Both. The Padres were second worst in outfield defense, that's Wayne Kirby's purview. They were mostly fine in the infield, save for the trainwreck at first base, that's Bobby Dickerson. Skip Schumaker was the associate head coach but seemed to have zero clubhouse presence. And then the massive amount of injuries falls on the strength and conditioning/training staff, along with some bad fortune. Jayce's a smart guy, he'll be successful down the road. He was the necessary fall guy here, but he wasn't the problem. Oh yes, Tingler definitely has a big share in the blame. Definitely a lot of blame to go around, but he's right in the blame mix.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 7, 2021 16:25:55 GMT -8
Both. The Padres were second worst in outfield defense, that's Wayne Kirby's purview. They were mostly fine in the infield, save for the trainwreck at first base, that's Bobby Dickerson. Skip Schumaker was the associate head coach but seemed to have zero clubhouse presence. And then the massive amount of injuries falls on the strength and conditioning/training staff, along with some bad fortune. Jayce's a smart guy, he'll be successful down the road. He was the necessary fall guy here, but he wasn't the problem. Oh yes, Tingler definitely has a big share in the blame. Definitely a lot of blame to go around, but he's right in the blame mix. He wasn't given the pieces to succeed. Could he have handled the clubhouse strife better? Perhaps. But when you don't get a say on any of your coaching staff and that staff fails to install winning practices, it's a little hard to blame Tingler for that. He'll be successful wherever he goes.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 7, 2021 17:08:40 GMT -8
Oh yes, Tingler definitely has a big share in the blame. Definitely a lot of blame to go around, but he's right in the blame mix. He wasn't given the pieces to succeed. Could he have handled the clubhouse strife better? Perhaps. But when you don't get a say on any of your coaching staff and that staff fails to install winning practices, it's a little hard to blame Tingler for that. He'll be successful wherever he goes. I like Tingler, but he made some head scratcher moves during ball games and more so in the second half, which I don't think are coincidental to their collapse. Like I said, it wasn't all Tingler, but he certainly made quite a few mistakes himself.
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Post by junior on Oct 7, 2021 17:32:55 GMT -8
AJ Preller is the one who didn't give Tingler the pieces needed for a successful outcome. Yet Preller is kept around to do it again, and again, and again.
Insanity.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 7, 2021 18:11:22 GMT -8
AJ Preller is the one who didn't give Tingler the pieces needed for a successful outcome. Yet Preller is kept around to do it again, and again, and again. Insanity. He was given an extension in January. He wasn't going to be fired.
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Post by azson on Oct 8, 2021 10:37:49 GMT -8
Oh yes, Tingler definitely has a big share in the blame. Definitely a lot of blame to go around, but he's right in the blame mix. He wasn't given the pieces to succeed. Could he have handled the clubhouse strife better? Perhaps. But when you don't get a say on any of your coaching staff and that staff fails to install winning practices, it's a little hard to blame Tingler for that. He'll be successful wherever he goes. Do you have any criticism of his in-game management skills? I recall at least one game in which he missed an obvious double-switch move (i.e. a reliever ended up having to bat due to his blunder), which is mind-boggling for an NL manager.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 8, 2021 21:05:08 GMT -8
He wasn't given the pieces to succeed. Could he have handled the clubhouse strife better? Perhaps. But when you don't get a say on any of your coaching staff and that staff fails to install winning practices, it's a little hard to blame Tingler for that. He'll be successful wherever he goes. Do you have any criticism of his in-game management skills? I recall at least one game in which he missed an obvious double-switch move (i.e. a reliever ended up having to bat due to his blunder), which is mind-boggling for an NL manager. Dissecting every decision over 162 games, you're going to find mistakes for any manager. That's part of my reasoning here....it's exactly why you surround your inexperienced manager with experienced coaching staffs who easily should spot areas of concern. Skip Schumaker's job as the associate head coach is to negate stuff like that.
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