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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 1, 2021 21:17:54 GMT -8
Concerning Donald Trump, our new President has had some pretty harsh things to say recently. I do not say that such criticisms are without merit. Still, I would have had much, much more respect for the new POTUS is he had said something like this:"
Look, I won't mince words. I think Donald Trump was a truly flawed President and hard to defend as an individual. Nevertheless, I believe it is in the best interests of this country to look ahead and not dwell on the flaws of the 45th POTUS.
The American people expect me to get the job done. Therefore, I will not publicly blame Donald Trump for current problems, even in those cases where I think he made mistakes. Other people are free to do that if they choose. For me to join that chorus would serve no good purpose. It would certainly not help solve problems of national importance.
Furthermore, let me make clear that I am greatly disturbed by the current partisan divide in this country. I do not think it an exaggeration to say that this is the most dangerous threat to our national stability since the Civil War. I am mindful that over 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. Some have made what I think are, at the very least, irresponsible attacks on those voters. I will do everything I can to convince those who voted against me that I can work in their interests as well as in the interests of those who voted for me.
In that latter regard, I will sign no bill that has no support by, or at least some input from, the Republicans. To do so would be the classic my way or the highway. No President can even begin to unite the country if he or she makes clear that his or her side is unwilling to compromise in any way. Furthermore, I pledge to meet regularly with the leaders of both houses of Congress, not just with those of my party. I have been around the political block more than a few times. I know full well that compromise, especially on contentious issues, is hard to come by. But we must try.
I do not want the minority party (and that will not always be the Republicans) to be able to say that they were shut out of negotiations on a bill that will have a significant impact on millions of Americans. That sort of thing, unfortunately, has become all too frequent in our capitol. It is my goal to change that.
Would Joe Biden ever say these things? For that matter, would any of today's politicians say them?
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Apr 1, 2021 22:02:43 GMT -8
Concerning Donald Trump, our new President has had some pretty harsh things to say recently. I do not say that such criticisms are without merit. Still, I would have had much, much more respect for the new POTUS is he had said something like this:" Look, I won't mince words. I think Donald Trump was a truly flawed President and hard to defend as an individual. Nevertheless, I believe it is in the best interests of this country to look ahead and not dwell on the flaws of the 45th POTUS.
The American people expect me to get the job done. Therefore, I will not publicly blame Donald Trump for current problems, even in those cases where I think he made mistakes. Other people are free to do that if they choose. For me to join that chorus would serve no good purpose. It would certainly not help solve problems of national importance.
Furthermore, let me make clear that I am greatly disturbed by the current partisan divide in this country. I do not think it an exaggeration to say that this is the most dangerous threat to our national stability since the Civil War. I am mindful that over 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. Some have made what I think are, at the very least, irresponsible attacks on those voters. I will do everything I can to convince those who voted against me that I can work in their interests as well as in the interests of those who voted for me.
In that latter regard, I will sign no bill that has no support by, or at least some input from, the Republicans. To do so would be the classic my way or the highway. No President can even begin to unite the country if he or she makes clear that his or her side is unwilling to compromise in any way. Furthermore, I pledge to meet regularly with the leaders of both houses of Congress, not just with those of my party. I have been around the political block more than a few times. I know full well that compromise, especially on contentious issues, is hard to come by. But we must try.
I do not want the minority party (and that will not always be the Republicans) to be able to say that they were shut out of negotiations on a bill that will have a significant impact on millions of Americans. That sort of thing, unfortunately, has become all too frequent in our capitol. It is my goal to change that.Would Joe Biden ever say these things? For that matter, would any of today's politicians say them? AzWm It's not the president's job to placate to a political party or an individual. It's his job to execute his duties of the office, faithfully, while steering the country in a direction in line with the vision they represent. Biden didn't back impeachment in November because he wanted his campaign to be about his campaign, not focused on removing Trump. There are many, many Republicans still loyal to Trumpism and there is less than zero need to promote unity as long as that's the reality. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 1, 2021 23:42:53 GMT -8
Concerning Donald Trump, our new President has had some pretty harsh things to say recently. I do not say that such criticisms are without merit. Still, I would have had much, much more respect for the new POTUS is he had said something like this:" Look, I won't mince words. I think Donald Trump was a truly flawed President and hard to defend as an individual. Nevertheless, I believe it is in the best interests of this country to look ahead and not dwell on the flaws of the 45th POTUS.
The American people expect me to get the job done. Therefore, I will not publicly blame Donald Trump for current problems, even in those cases where I think he made mistakes. Other people are free to do that if they choose. For me to join that chorus would serve no good purpose. It would certainly not help solve problems of national importance.
Furthermore, let me make clear that I am greatly disturbed by the current partisan divide in this country. I do not think it an exaggeration to say that this is the most dangerous threat to our national stability since the Civil War. I am mindful that over 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. Some have made what I think are, at the very least, irresponsible attacks on those voters. I will do everything I can to convince those who voted against me that I can work in their interests as well as in the interests of those who voted for me.
In that latter regard, I will sign no bill that has no support by, or at least some input from, the Republicans. To do so would be the classic my way or the highway. No President can even begin to unite the country if he or she makes clear that his or her side is unwilling to compromise in any way. Furthermore, I pledge to meet regularly with the leaders of both houses of Congress, not just with those of my party. I have been around the political block more than a few times. I know full well that compromise, especially on contentious issues, is hard to come by. But we must try.
I do not want the minority party (and that will not always be the Republicans) to be able to say that they were shut out of negotiations on a bill that will have a significant impact on millions of Americans. That sort of thing, unfortunately, has become all too frequent in our capitol. It is my goal to change that.Would Joe Biden ever say these things? For that matter, would any of today's politicians say them? AzWm It's not the president's job to placate to a political party or an individual. It's his job to execute his duties of the office, faithfully, while steering the country in a direction in line with the vision they represent. Biden didn't back impeachment in November because he wanted his campaign to be about his campaign, not focused on removing Trump. There are many, many Republicans still loyal to Trumpism and there is less than zero need to promote unity as long as that's the reality. So where does that leave us? Hoping that those who supported Trump all die off? Your position seems to be that only those who support the goals of the Left can have any legitimate stake in the governing of this country. The 20th Century teaches us what happens when those in power have no respect for those who hold different opinions. It moves on to holding that the opposition not only deserves no respect, but also has no rights. With respect to President Biden, nowhere did I say that he should "placate" Trump supporters. That is foolish talk. Biden spoke of unity, then proceeded to make clear that by unity he was talking about unwavering support for his position. He has been unwilling to make any concessions whatsoever to the other side. Remember when those ten Republican Senators met with Biden in the White House? What came of it? Nothing. Basically, those Senators were made fools of. Better to have said, Hell no I'm not going to compromise. That at least would have been honest. I wonder what those ten GOP Senators are thinking of the President now. Nothing fit for the ears of little children, I'm sure. Biden may need the support of those Senators in a couple of years when he may be facing a Republican controlled Congress. In any case, never make an enemy unnecessarily is always good advice. One would think that after so many years in Washington, Joe Biden would have learned that. AzWm |
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Post by aztecryan on Apr 2, 2021 7:50:49 GMT -8
It's not the president's job to placate to a political party or an individual. It's his job to execute his duties of the office, faithfully, while steering the country in a direction in line with the vision they represent. Biden didn't back impeachment in November because he wanted his campaign to be about his campaign, not focused on removing Trump. There are many, many Republicans still loyal to Trumpism and there is less than zero need to promote unity as long as that's the reality. So where does that leave us? Hoping that those who supported Trump all die off? Your position seems to be that only those who support the goals of the Left can have any legitimate stake in the governing of this country. The 20th Century teaches us what happens when those in power have no respect for those who hold different opinions. It moves on to holding that the opposition not only deserves no respect, but also has no rights. With respect to President Biden, nowhere did I say that he should "placate" Trump supporters. That is foolish talk. Biden spoke of unity, then proceeded to make clear that by unity he was talking about unwavering support for his position. He has been unwilling to make any concessions whatsoever to the other side. Remember when those ten Republican Senators met with Biden in the White House? What came of it? Nothing. Basically, those Senators were made fools of. Better to have said, Hell no I'm not going to compromise. That at least would have been honest. I wonder what those ten GOP Senators are thinking of the President now. Nothing fit for the ears of little children, I'm sure. Biden may need the support of those Senators in a couple of years when he may be facing a Republican controlled Congress. In any case, never make an enemy unnecessarily is always good advice. One would think that after so many years in Washington, Joe Biden would have learned that. AzWm Notice you don't say a word about how the Republicans rammed through trillions in tax cuts for the ultra rich, without Democrat support, through reconciliation. Where was the compromise then? Better yet, where was the help when average people (or worse) needed it? Oh, yeah...nonexistent. My "position" is to give awful human beings like Jim Jordan, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Kevin McCarthy, Lauren Boebert, Ted Cruz, Madison Cawthorn and the list goes on the largest of middle fingers. There is no need to make concessions as long as there is a majority for the side that voted against stimulus money, unemployment benefits and countless other worthy resolutions, yet passed billions in bailouts for airlines, conglomerates and the 1%. I don't know what meeting you are specifically referring to, but there *were* compromises made. The Republicans vowed to hold up the Senate confirmation process for multiple appointees, to give the American people LESS money in extended unemployment benefits. Unity? No, I'll pass. |
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Post by azson on Apr 2, 2021 11:40:45 GMT -8
Concerning Donald Trump, our new President has had some pretty harsh things to say recently. I do not say that such criticisms are without merit. Still, I would have had much, much more respect for the new POTUS is he had said something like this:" Look, I won't mince words. I think Donald Trump was a truly flawed President and hard to defend as an individual. Nevertheless, I believe it is in the best interests of this country to look ahead and not dwell on the flaws of the 45th POTUS.
The American people expect me to get the job done. Therefore, I will not publicly blame Donald Trump for current problems, even in those cases where I think he made mistakes. Other people are free to do that if they choose. For me to join that chorus would serve no good purpose. It would certainly not help solve problems of national importance.
Furthermore, let me make clear that I am greatly disturbed by the current partisan divide in this country. I do not think it an exaggeration to say that this is the most dangerous threat to our national stability since the Civil War. I am mindful that over 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. Some have made what I think are, at the very least, irresponsible attacks on those voters. I will do everything I can to convince those who voted against me that I can work in their interests as well as in the interests of those who voted for me.
In that latter regard, I will sign no bill that has no support by, or at least some input from, the Republicans. To do so would be the classic my way or the highway. No President can even begin to unite the country if he or she makes clear that his or her side is unwilling to compromise in any way. Furthermore, I pledge to meet regularly with the leaders of both houses of Congress, not just with those of my party. I have been around the political block more than a few times. I know full well that compromise, especially on contentious issues, is hard to come by. But we must try.
I do not want the minority party (and that will not always be the Republicans) to be able to say that they were shut out of negotiations on a bill that will have a significant impact on millions of Americans. That sort of thing, unfortunately, has become all too frequent in our capitol. It is my goal to change that.Would Joe Biden ever say these things? For that matter, would any of today's politicians say them? AzWm Yes, I'm sure you would like to gloss over all of the horrific actions and decisions he made and “look ahead and not dwell on the flaws.” If I had voted for this horror of a president I’d be wanting to put it all behind me toot sweet as well. Thankfully the majority of the world believes that that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it – and therefore this train-wreck of a presidency should be analyzed, critiqued and studied ad nauseum so that it never happens again. |
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Post by azteccc on Apr 2, 2021 16:39:33 GMT -8
Concerning Donald Trump, our new President has had some pretty harsh things to say recently. I do not say that such criticisms are without merit. Still, I would have had much, much more respect for the new POTUS is he had said something like this:" Look, I won't mince words. I think Donald Trump was a truly flawed President and hard to defend as an individual. Nevertheless, I believe it is in the best interests of this country to look ahead and not dwell on the flaws of the 45th POTUS.
The American people expect me to get the job done. Therefore, I will not publicly blame Donald Trump for current problems, even in those cases where I think he made mistakes. Other people are free to do that if they choose. For me to join that chorus would serve no good purpose. It would certainly not help solve problems of national importance.
Furthermore, let me make clear that I am greatly disturbed by the current partisan divide in this country. I do not think it an exaggeration to say that this is the most dangerous threat to our national stability since the Civil War. I am mindful that over 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. Some have made what I think are, at the very least, irresponsible attacks on those voters. I will do everything I can to convince those who voted against me that I can work in their interests as well as in the interests of those who voted for me.
In that latter regard, I will sign no bill that has no support by, or at least some input from, the Republicans. To do so would be the classic my way or the highway. No President can even begin to unite the country if he or she makes clear that his or her side is unwilling to compromise in any way. Furthermore, I pledge to meet regularly with the leaders of both houses of Congress, not just with those of my party. I have been around the political block more than a few times. I know full well that compromise, especially on contentious issues, is hard to come by. But we must try.
I do not want the minority party (and that will not always be the Republicans) to be able to say that they were shut out of negotiations on a bill that will have a significant impact on millions of Americans. That sort of thing, unfortunately, has become all too frequent in our capitol. It is my goal to change that.Would Joe Biden ever say these things? For that matter, would any of today's politicians say them? AzWm HAhahahahahhhaha I haven't wandered over here in like a year and this is the first psot I stumbled upon. Is this how it's been? lolll |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 3, 2021 16:22:47 GMT -8
Concerning Donald Trump, our new President has had some pretty harsh things to say recently. I do not say that such criticisms are without merit. Still, I would have had much, much more respect for the new POTUS is he had said something like this:" Look, I won't mince words. I think Donald Trump was a truly flawed President and hard to defend as an individual. Nevertheless, I believe it is in the best interests of this country to look ahead and not dwell on the flaws of the 45th POTUS.
The American people expect me to get the job done. Therefore, I will not publicly blame Donald Trump for current problems, even in those cases where I think he made mistakes. Other people are free to do that if they choose. For me to join that chorus would serve no good purpose. It would certainly not help solve problems of national importance.
Furthermore, let me make clear that I am greatly disturbed by the current partisan divide in this country. I do not think it an exaggeration to say that this is the most dangerous threat to our national stability since the Civil War. I am mindful that over 70 million Americans voted for Donald Trump. Some have made what I think are, at the very least, irresponsible attacks on those voters. I will do everything I can to convince those who voted against me that I can work in their interests as well as in the interests of those who voted for me.
In that latter regard, I will sign no bill that has no support by, or at least some input from, the Republicans. To do so would be the classic my way or the highway. No President can even begin to unite the country if he or she makes clear that his or her side is unwilling to compromise in any way. Furthermore, I pledge to meet regularly with the leaders of both houses of Congress, not just with those of my party. I have been around the political block more than a few times. I know full well that compromise, especially on contentious issues, is hard to come by. But we must try.
I do not want the minority party (and that will not always be the Republicans) to be able to say that they were shut out of negotiations on a bill that will have a significant impact on millions of Americans. That sort of thing, unfortunately, has become all too frequent in our capitol. It is my goal to change that.Would Joe Biden ever say these things? For that matter, would any of today's politicians say them? AzWm Yes, I'm sure you would like to gloss over all of the horrific actions and decisions he made and “look ahead and not dwell on the flaws.” If I had voted for this horror of a president I’d be wanting to put it all behind me toot sweet as well. Thankfully the majority of the world believes that that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it – and therefore this train-wreck of a presidency should be analyzed, critiqued and studied ad nauseum so that it never happens again.
I did not, repeat NOT, vote for Trump. Did not support him. I have voted for the Libertriaan candidate every time staring in 1976, with the exception of 1988. I believe that the man is the worst qualified person to hold the office of POTUS in at least a century. I have made that clear many, many times.
I'm going to post my evaluation of Donald Trump soon. It will be more nuanced that the "He is the devil incarnate and should be hanged" line that many of his enemies resort to. Yes, I know; taking a more nuanced view of DJT than that is a very, very low bar to clear. But but clear it I will.
AzWm
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Post by uwphoto on Apr 3, 2021 20:51:57 GMT -8
Yes, I'm sure you would like to gloss over all of the horrific actions and decisions he made and “look ahead and not dwell on the flaws.” If I had voted for this horror of a president I’d be wanting to put it all behind me toot sweet as well. Thankfully the majority of the world believes that that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it – and therefore this train-wreck of a presidency should be analyzed, critiqued and studied ad nauseum so that it never happens again.
I did not, repeat NOT, vote for Trump. Did not support him. I have voted for the Libertriaan candidate every time staring in 1976, with the exception of 1988. I believe that the man is the worst qualified person to hold the office of POTUS in at least a century. I have made that clear many, many times.
I'm going to post my evaluation of Donald Trump soon. It will be more nuanced that the "He is the devil incarnate and should be hanged" line that many of his enemies resort to. Yes, I know; taking a more nuanced view of DJT than that is a very, very low bar to clear. But but clear it I will.
AzWm
Well yes...he is the dick of the century... and second place isn't even close! What else is there to write? |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 3, 2021 21:14:00 GMT -8
In the first time in the 12 years that I have run this site, I am really, and I mean really, pissed at something a poster had written about me. Seriously, can everybody read?!!!
I did not, repeat NOT, vote for Trump. Did not support him. I have voted for the Libertriaan candidate every time staring in 1976, with the exception of 1988. I believe that the man is the worst qualified person to hold the office of POTUS in at least a century. I have made that clear many, many times.
I'm going to post my evaluation of Donald Trump soon. It will be more nuanced that the "He is the devil incarnate and should be hanged" line that many of his enemies resort to. Yes, I know; taking a more nuanced view of DJT than that is a very, very low bar to clear. But but clear it I will.
AzWm
Well yes...he is the dick of the century... and second place isn't even close! What else is there to write? When I post my Trump evaluation, you will see. Diehard Trump supporters will not like what I have to say. Never-Trumpers will not like what I have to say. If both those statements prove to be true, I will have done my job. But right now I must prepare for Easter with my in-laws. AzWm |
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Post by aztecryan on Apr 3, 2021 21:24:14 GMT -8
Well yes...he is the dick of the century... and second place isn't even close! What else is there to write? When I post my Trump evaluation, you will see. Diehard Trump supporters will not like what I have to say. Never-Trumpers will not like what I have to say. If both those statements prove to be true, I will have done my job. But right now I must prepare for Easter with my in-laws. AzWm What you fail to repeatedly grasp is that anything negative you say is completely meaningless when you contradict it three sentences later. Have a stance, don't waffle on it and it's fine. Most of us know what's coming : Unimportant policy accolades that don't equate to his misgivings as a human, a president or a leader who's unfit to run the local PTA. He's legitimately one of the top three worst presidents in history (as rated by presidential historians and scholars) and the fact we can leave him behind where he belongs is a blessing. The critique of Biden for not pandering to sycophants indicates that there's not much of substance we can glean from your evaluations, if we're striving to be transparent. Biden's tenure has been unremarkable and vanilla thus far, but unremarkable is a stark contrast to the blatant propaganda machine that the White House devolved into the last four years. |
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Post by azson on Apr 5, 2021 15:57:40 GMT -8
Yes, I'm sure you would like to gloss over all of the horrific actions and decisions he made and “look ahead and not dwell on the flaws.” If I had voted for this horror of a president I’d be wanting to put it all behind me toot sweet as well. Thankfully the majority of the world believes that that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it – and therefore this train-wreck of a presidency should be analyzed, critiqued and studied ad nauseum so that it never happens again.
I did not, repeat NOT, vote for Trump. Did not support him. I have voted for the Libertriaan candidate every time staring in 1976, with the exception of 1988. I believe that the man is the worst qualified person to hold the office of POTUS in at least a century. I have made that clear many, many times.
I'm going to post my evaluation of Donald Trump soon. It will be more nuanced that the "He is the devil incarnate and should be hanged" line that many of his enemies resort to. Yes, I know; taking a more nuanced view of DJT than that is a very, very low bar to clear. But but clear it I will.
AzWm
Forgive my error - but after your constant, obtuse defenses of arguably the worst president in history, is it really surprising that I forgot you didn't vote for him? |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 7, 2021 12:14:57 GMT -8
In the first time in the 12 years that I have run this site, I am really, and I mean really, pissed at something a poster had written about me. Seriously, can everybody read?!!!
I did not, repeat NOT, vote for Trump. Did not support him. I have voted for the Libertriaan candidate every time staring in 1976, with the exception of 1988. I believe that the man is the worst qualified person to hold the office of POTUS in at least a century. I have made that clear many, many times.
I'm going to post my evaluation of Donald Trump soon. It will be more nuanced that the "He is the devil incarnate and should be hanged" line that many of his enemies resort to. Yes, I know; taking a more nuanced view of DJT than that is a very, very low bar to clear. But but clear it I will.
AzWm
Forgive my error - but after your constant, obtuse defenses of arguably the worst president in history, is it really surprising that I forgot you didn't vote for him? This is what drives me nuts. Where have I offered obtuse defenses of arguably the worst president in history? I have, it is true, applauded the Abraham accords. Are you saying that the first major Middle East peace agreement in over 20 years was a mistake? Should the participants involved in those agreements be encouraged to abrogate them? I am happy that Trump, admittedly in a ham-fisted manner, pushed the Europeans to take on more the responsibity for their own defense. Or are you in favor of our continuing to pay for what they should be funding as a basic part of their own national self-interest? Well, you could take the liberatran view that we should pretty much withdraw from from Europe and concentrate on the defense of the homeland. That would be a reasonable argument, but I doubt that is what you mean. If Trump was for it, it must have been a terrible policy which should be rejected totally, no questions asked, right? How about moving our embassy to Jerusalem? Several Presidents have supposedly been in favor of that, but none, until Trump, took action. I am 100% in favor of that decision. I don't see the Middle East exploding into general chaos and violence as was predicted should the USA move its embassy. Oh, but Trump did it, so it must have been a horrible mistake, right? Donald Trump is a flawed man and in so many ways unworthy of the presidency. None more so than his behavior post election. But it would be impossible for any POTUS to be 100% wrong, even if he or she tried. I believe in a fair evaluation of a person's actions. That goes for Joe Biden, as well. I will applaud those actions which I see as being in the national interest. (I am hoping that he will take a tough stance against the threat posed by China, for instance.) Regarding the concept of a fair evaluation, and in particular, a fair evaluation of President Trump, I recommend this article. It appeared in the Atlantic, definitely a left-of-center publication. It lists quite a number of positive Trump administration accomplishments. One has to believe that Trump was right somewhat more than twice a day (you know, a stopped clock). www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/the-things-trump-got-right/617424/AzWm |
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Post by aztecryan on Apr 7, 2021 12:36:54 GMT -8
Forgive my error - but after your constant, obtuse defenses of arguably the worst president in history, is it really surprising that I forgot you didn't vote for him? This is what drives me nuts. Where have I offered obtuse defenses of arguably the worst president in history? I have, it is true, applauded the Abraham accords. Are you saying that the first major Middle East peace agreement in over 20 years was a mistake? Should the participants involved in those agreements be encouraged to abrogate them? I am happy that Trump, admittedly in a ham-fisted manner, pushed the Europeans to take on more the responsibity for their own defense. Or are you in favor of our continuing to pay for what they should be funding as a basic part of their own national self-interest? Well, you could take the liberatran view that we should pretty much withdraw from from Europe and concentrate on the defense of the homeland. That would be a reasonable argument, but I doubt that is what you mean. If Trump was for it, it must have been a terrible policy which should be rejected totally, no questions asked, right? How about moving our embassy to Jerusalem? Several Presidents have supposedly been in favor of that, but none, until Trump, took action. I am 100% in favor of that decision. I don't see the Middle East exploding into general chaos and violence as was predicted should the USA move its embassy. Oh, but Trump did it, so it must have been a horrible mistake, right? Donald Trump is a flawed man and in so many ways unworthy of the presidency. None more so than his behavior post election. But it would be impossible for any POTUS to be 100% wrong, even if he or she tried. I believe in a fair evaluation of a person's actions. That goes for Joe Biden, as well. I will applaud those actions which I see as being in the national interest. (I am hoping that he will take a tough stance against the threat posed by China, for instance.) Regarding the concept of a fair evaluation, and in particular, a fair evaluation of President Trump, I recommend this article. It appeared in the Atlantic, definitely a left-of-center publication. It lists quite a number of positive Trump administration accomplishments. One has to believe that Trump was right somewhat more than twice a day (you know, a stopped clock). www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/the-things-trump-got-right/617424/AzWm Predictable, as stated. Normalizing accomplishments that really don't matter in the larger picture (peace agreements with countries that are...yeah, at peace) and don't outweigh the dozens and dozens of devastating actions that took place under that administration's watch. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 7, 2021 12:47:10 GMT -8
In the article I linked in my previous posts, there is an interesting list of some of the accomplishments made by earlier Presidents. No doubt the author could have mentioned good things done by still other Presidents.
He goes on to lambast Trump on a number of points before listing some good things that came out of the Trump administration. I point this out to make clear that this piece was NOT written by a Trump supporter. In fact, I think he is pretty much a never-Trumper. But no so much so that he is incapable of rendering a fair evaluation.
********************************
I'll take this opportunity to mention a President who, in my opinion, deserves credit. I speak of Harry Truman. I, unlike most AztecMesa members, am old enough to have observed Truman when he was still in office. I especially remember how little people thought of him then. He was a crude man in some ways and turned off many by his manner. Didn't think much of the press. Many didn't like his firing of the popular Douglas McCarther. Even the SCOTUS slapped him down. (Is this starting to sound familiar?) But he made the right call in some critical situations.
Now, just so some of you won't blow your tops, I am not suggesting that Trump was another Truman. But I am willing to bet that future historians will be more kind to Trump than his critics are today.
Sure, a future historian would not have to say much good about DJT to be more kind than that.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 7, 2021 12:57:50 GMT -8
Honestly, Ryan, if you think the Abraham accords are meaningless, you are virtually clueless about the Middle East. Even Jeffry Goldberg, in a generally sour-grapes piece in the Atlantic discussing these accords, concedes some pretty good reasons to applaud them.
Israel and the United Arab Emirates (along with other Gulf states) have secretly cooperated with each other against their common enemy, the Islamic Republic of Iran, for more than a decade. The normalization of relations strengthens this coalition, the members of which (mainly correctly) see Iran and its various terrorist appendages as threats to their stability and territorial integrity, and even to their existence.
*****
. . . Arab leaders are signaling to the Palestinians that they have grown tired of what they see as Palestinian rejectionism and obduracy, and also that they would very much like to be partners with Israel in high-tech development and in the fight against Iran. Two years ago, bin Salman told me in an interview: “I believe that each people, anywhere, has a right to live in their peaceful nation. I believe the Palestinians and the Israelis have the right to have their own land.”
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 7, 2021 14:04:49 GMT -8
Here's another view of the Abraham Accords that should be considered. AMERICAN UNIVERSITY'S UNDERGRADUATE POLICY MAGAZINE www.theworldmind.org/home/2020/11/3/worlds-collide-the-significance-of-the-abraham-accord-and-the-future-of-the-middle-east. . . supporters and opponents alike argue the possible historic weight of these talks. Rather than looking to the past to influence policy in the Middle East, the Abraham Accords have attempted to “look forward”. Where treaties with other countries have been mostly done out of a means to discontinue armed conflict and align interests with the US, the Abraham Accords have been signed purely out of the interest of opening new roads for discussion with Israel and paving the road to increased measures of diplomacy in the region. The ramifications of the Abraham Accords are far-reaching, and it’s necessary to grasp them fully before judging the weight of them completely.AzWm |
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Post by johneaztec on Apr 7, 2021 14:35:09 GMT -8
Honestly, Ryan, if you think the Abraham accords are meaningless, you are virtually clueless about the Middle East. Even Jeffry Goldberg, in a generally sour-grapes piece in the Atlantic discussing these accords, concedes some pretty good reasons to applaud them. Israel and the United Arab Emirates (along with other Gulf states) have secretly cooperated with each other against their common enemy, the Islamic Republic of Iran, for more than a decade. The normalization of relations strengthens this coalition, the members of which (mainly correctly) see Iran and its various terrorist appendages as threats to their stability and territorial integrity, and even to their existence.
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. . . Arab leaders are signaling to the Palestinians that they have grown tired of what they see as Palestinian rejectionism and obduracy, and also that they would very much like to be partners with Israel in high-tech development and in the fight against Iran. Two years ago, bin Salman told me in an interview: “I believe that each people, anywhere, has a right to live in their peaceful nation. I believe the Palestinians and the Israelis have the right to have their own land.” AzWm You need to understand that there are many people out there that do not want to give President Trump one ounce of praise, or acknowledgement of any of his successes. I'm like you, one who will give praise when deserved, but will acknowledge shortcomings. I wouldn't get so upset as you are. There's no way they're going to change their minds, or the way they look at things. That's a choice that everyone has, how to handle it, amongst other things. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 7, 2021 14:54:57 GMT -8
Honestly, Ryan, if you think the Abraham accords are meaningless, you are virtually clueless about the Middle East. Even Jeffry Goldberg, in a generally sour-grapes piece in the Atlantic discussing these accords, concedes some pretty good reasons to applaud them. Israel and the United Arab Emirates (along with other Gulf states) have secretly cooperated with each other against their common enemy, the Islamic Republic of Iran, for more than a decade. The normalization of relations strengthens this coalition, the members of which (mainly correctly) see Iran and its various terrorist appendages as threats to their stability and territorial integrity, and even to their existence.
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. . . Arab leaders are signaling to the Palestinians that they have grown tired of what they see as Palestinian rejectionism and obduracy, and also that they would very much like to be partners with Israel in high-tech development and in the fight against Iran. Two years ago, bin Salman told me in an interview: “I believe that each people, anywhere, has a right to live in their peaceful nation. I believe the Palestinians and the Israelis have the right to have their own land.” AzWm You need to understand that there are many people out there that do not want to give President Trump one ounce of praise, or acknowledgement of any of his successes. I'm like you, one who will give praise when deserved, but will acknowledge shortcomings. I wouldn't get so upset as you are. There's no way they're going to change their minds, or the way they look at things. That's a choice that everyone has, how to handle it, amongst other things. You are correct. Still, I choose to make my points in the hopes that some who now have a black vs white view of Trump, or for that matter any public figure, may decide to seek facts that do not necessarily fit a pre-conceived narrative. AzWm |
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Post by uwphoto on Apr 7, 2021 15:57:21 GMT -8
You need to understand that there are many people out there that do not want to give President Trump one ounce of praise, or acknowledgement of any of his successes. I'm like you, one who will give praise when deserved, but will acknowledge shortcomings. I wouldn't get so upset as you are. There's no way they're going to change their minds, or the way they look at things. That's a choice that everyone has, how to handle it, amongst other things. You are correct. Still, I choose to make my points in the hopes that some who now have a black vs white view of Trump, or for that matter any public figure, may decide to seek facts that do not necessarily fit a pre-conceived narrative. AzWm oh, how many insurrections on the Capitol Building by nut balls have you seen William.? Activating Qanon nut jobs who get representative jobs? Ever seen Idiocracy? |
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Post by azson on Apr 7, 2021 15:58:17 GMT -8
Wm, Hitler and the National Socialists also did a few good things for Germany in the mid-30s, but there's good reason you never hear of them.
Before you go nuts again, no I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler. But I do wonder why you seem to expend so much energy on continuing to "yeah, but he did good too" re Trump. He was horrific for our country and took great pleasure in fomenting divisiveness, the likes I haven't seen in my lifetime.
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