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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Jan 16, 2021 17:31:22 GMT -8
Yup, it's up around the Capitol building. BTW, there is a similar wall up around the Capitol in Olympia, WA. |
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Post by sdsuball on Jan 16, 2021 18:09:29 GMT -8
Mike Pence was literally a minute from likely being assassinated. Not according to the Secret Service. He was cleared from a room one minute before rioters got there but Secret Service said he was secure the entire time. The initial call to clear the room was 14 minutes earlier and Pence delayed for 13 minutes because his well armed Secret Service detail told him he was safe. The Capitol riot is a serious event. It shouldn't be downplayed, but it also shouldn't be sensationalized like this. Mike Pence was not "literally a minute from likely being assassinated". I don't think that any of this is sensationalized. There was an attempt by a mob of thousands of Trump supporters to murder Mike Pence, Nancy Pelosi, and/or members of Congress in order to overturn rightfully held elections. I think that you are downplaying the events that happed and are not willing to admit that you voted for a Fascist in Trump. It's not sensationalism. Stop defending this man, and stop defending the Fascist sect of the Republican party. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jan 16, 2021 21:55:03 GMT -8
I think that you are downplaying the events that happed and are not willing to admit that you voted for a Fascist in Trump. You are welcome to think that just as I'm able to think you don't know what Fascism is. I don't believe you have even a simple understanding of the Partito Nazionale Fascista, its Syndicalist roots, or the Sorelianist tenets that underpin the Fascist political ideology. I think it is a word you hear others, smarter than you, using and you want to be one of the cool kids without bothering to put in the work to learn WTF you are talking about. But you know what they say; opinions are like a$$h@oles in that everyone has one. I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. |
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Post by sdsuball on Jan 16, 2021 22:07:17 GMT -8
I think that you are downplaying the events that happed and are not willing to admit that you voted for a Fascist in Trump. You are welcome to think that just as I'm able to think you don't know what Fascism is. I don't believe you have even a simple understanding of the Partito Nazionale Fascista, its Syndicalist roots, or the Sorelianist tenets that underpin the Fascist political ideology. I think it is a word you hear others, smarter than you, using and you want to be one of the cool kids without bothering to put in the work to learn WTF you are talking about. But you know what they say; opinions are like a$$h@oles in that everyone has one. I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time. What word do you think is more appropriate for him? Do you defend him? Would you vote for him again if you could? Are you a fan of Trumpism? |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jan 16, 2021 22:18:41 GMT -8
What word do you think is more appropriate for him? Populist I defend actions when the warrant defending. Trump has done many things I do not defend and I've even put together a list of such acts. Would you vote for him again if you could? versus who? Are you a fan of Trumpism? Please define what *YOU* mean by "Trumpism" and I'll answer your question. |
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Post by sdsuball on Jan 16, 2021 22:57:02 GMT -8
What word do you think is more appropriate for him? Populist I defend actions when the warrant defending. Trump has done many things I do not defend and I've even put together a list of such acts. Would you vote for him again if you could? versus who? Are you a fan of Trumpism? Please define what *YOU* mean by "Trumpism" and I'll answer your question. Versus: 1. Hilary Clinton 2. Joe Biden 3. Ted Cruz in the primary 4. Any other Republican in the primary 5. Any other moderate Democrat in the general election 6. Any other liberal Democrat in the general election Trumpism: Pro authoritarianism Nationalism Xenophobic Racism Pro corporations For me, it's his authoritarianism in the form of supporting an attempted violent coup, in addition to trying to coerce state officials to change the election results, in addition to colluding with Russians in the 2016 election, all of which reeks of the dictator/anti-democracy component of fascism. In combination with everything else that I just listed, Fascism felt like a most appropriate descriptor word to encapsulate Trumpism. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Jan 17, 2021 8:18:27 GMT -8
Versus: 1. Hilary Clinton 2. Joe Biden 3. Ted Cruz in the primary 4. Any other Republican in the primary 5. Any other moderate Democrat in the general election 6. Any other liberal Democrat in the general election 1. I’d take Trump over Hillary because I don’t trust the people Hillary surrounds herself with and she’s a terrible leader of people. 2. Biden is an empty suit so it depends on who his VP is but if it were Kamala again then I’d happily vote Trump. Kamala has no morals or ideology that I can detect. She’s the kind of person who will denounce someone as a racist and sexual abuser, then become his VP and promote him. She’ll advocate for prison reform but use every trick to keep people in prison to use them as cheap labor for the state. 3. At this point, I’d take Ted Cruz over Trump. 4. I prefer some Republicans to Trump and other Republicans I like less than Trump. 5 & 6. To me, 5 & 6 are the same question. I believe liberal Democrats are moderate Democrats and there could hypothetically be some I’d vote for, but there are no progressive Democrats I’d vote for. Progressivism is cancer, and not a synonym of “liberal” or “politically left”. The difference between a progressive and a liberal is that progressives hold that rights and privileges of the group outweigh rights and privileges of the individual. Liberals believe the opposite of that. As a practical example, a Progressive would support hate speech laws to prevent an individual from voicing hate against a marginalized group. A Liberal would oppose hate speech laws because an individual’s right to speech is more important than the rights of any group to not be offended. There aren’t many true liberals still in the Democrat party but if there were one I’d consider voting for them over Trump. Trumpism: Pro authoritarianism Nationalism Xenophobic Racism Pro corporations I am not a fan of the aggregate package of ideas you’ve enumerated, but I do support both patriotism and business-friendly economic policies which you’ve included in your list under different labels. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 17, 2021 8:47:19 GMT -8
Versus: 1. Hilary Clinton 2. Joe Biden 3. Ted Cruz in the primary 4. Any other Republican in the primary 5. Any other moderate Democrat in the general election 6. Any other liberal Democrat in the general election 1. I’d take Trump over Hillary because I don’t trust the people Hillary surrounds herself with and she’s a terrible leader of people. 2. Biden is an empty suit so it depends on who his VP is but if it were Kamala again then I’d happily vote Trump. Kamala has no morals or ideology that I can detect. She’s the kind of person who will denounce someone as a racist and sexual abuser, then become his VP and promote him. She’ll advocate for prison reform but use every trick to keep people in prison to use them as cheap labor for the state. 3. At this point, I’d take Ted Cruz over Trump. 4. I prefer some Republicans to Trump and other Republicans I like less than Trump. 5 & 6. To me, 5 & 6 are the same question. I believe liberal Democrats are moderate Democrats and there could hypothetically be some I’d vote for, but there are no progressive Democrats I’d vote for. Progressivism is cancer, and not a synonym of “liberal” or “politically left”. The difference between a progressive and a liberal is that progressives hold that rights and privileges of the group outweigh rights and privileges of the individual. Liberals believe the opposite of that. As a practical example, a Progressive would support hate speech laws to prevent an individual from voicing hate against a marginalized group. A Liberal would oppose hate speech laws because an individual’s right to speech is more important than the rights of any group to not be offended. There aren’t many true liberals still in the Democrat party but if there were one I’d consider voting for them over Trump. Trumpism: Pro authoritarianism Nationalism Xenophobic Racism Pro corporations I am not a fan of the aggregate package of ideas you’ve enumerated, but I do support both patriotism and business-friendly economic policies which you’ve included in your list under different labels. You don't trust the people Hillary surrounds herself with, but you trust a white nationalist in Stephen Miller, a blatant propaganda machine in Kayleigh McEnany, a revolving door of cabinet members that are unqualified to be in their position, a racist in Peter Navarro, an Islamaphobic Seb Gorka, nepotism around every corner and pretty much universally the most corrupt administration in American history? Bold. Morals? Are you....kidding? I feel like I'm being "punked" here - Donald Trump is the most morally bankrupt individual since Richard Nixon, and Nixon had the courtesy to resign. If that's a stance you're actually taking, it's hysterical. From letting people die from COVID, to attempting to overturn election results by various illegal methods, to a Mt. Everest high list of other grievances, it's extremely hollow. Extremely. Donald Trump isn't a patriot. He doesn't care about the United States. He cares about himself and how to pad his bank account, how to avoid a cell in a prison and the unceasing desire to stroke his own ego. That's the thing with demagogues and malignant narcissists. He's not a populist, either. Populism surrounds itself concerning ordinary people who feel they are being disregarded by elitism. Since when does Donald Trump care about any ordinary people outside of being able to manipulate them for his own political gain? He's a textbook demagogue, appealing to subtle racism and xenophobia in people that comprise a chunk of his voting base. I can't believe morals and Donald Trump were brought up in the same paragraph. That's...something. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 17, 2021 8:52:29 GMT -8
...and if trump would sell pardons (if true)...he'd sell national classified information..take it to the bank. I would not be surprised...even a little bit if he already has. Nixon is Mother Theresa compared to this guy. Alometer might take Hitler over some Democrats.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 17, 2021 9:02:12 GMT -8
...and if trump would sell pardons (if true)...he'd sell national classified information..take it to the bank. I would not be surprised...even a little bit if he already has. Nixon is Mother Theresa compared to this guy. Alometer might take Hitler over some Democrats. It's likely not him directly, but Giuliiani and others in the circle. Billy Walters is a Vegas legend and perhaps the most well-known gambler of all time. He ran into legal trouble (along with Phil Mickelson) and now he's trying to get through in the backdoor at the buzzer. Trump and Kushner essentially eliminated the DOJ's vetting process to make it more financially based, instead of merits. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jan 17, 2021 9:02:53 GMT -8
Trump is worse than Nixon A lot worse. Nixon at least LOVED the United States of America. He was paranoid and had a broken moral compass, but he loved the country and wanted to make it stronger.
Trump has shown time and time again that he puts himself ABOVE the country. He only cares about himself. He, at times, has even shown disdain for members of his own family.
Trump is the least honest President in history, and the most corrupt.
Supporting him in any way is turning a blind eye to that.
I've opposed Trump since the mid 80's, and everything he's done since has made me oppose him even more each year along the way.
Oh, and I am a registered Republican, and I support rational and reasonable Republicans like Mitt Romney. But Trump is a nightmare for the country, and we're just about to wake up.
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 17, 2021 9:29:01 GMT -8
Trump is worse than Nixon A lot worse. Nixon at least LOVED the United States of America. He was paranoid and had a broken moral compass, but he loved the country and wanted to make it stronger. Trump has shown time and time again that he puts himself ABOVE the country. He only cares about himself. He, at times, has even shown disdain for members of his own family. Trump is the least honest President in history, and the most corrupt. Supporting him in any way is turning a blind eye to that. I've opposed Trump since the mid 80's, and everything he's done since has made me oppose him even more each year along the way. Oh, and I am a registered Republican, and I support rational and reasonable Republicans like Mitt Romney. But Trump is a nightmare for the country, and we're just about to wake up. well, you know his saying: I love the poorly educated...and I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue... a lot of people went all in...but a lot of people also watched every episode of The Jerry Springer show, Duck Dynasty, Alaskan Bush People etc. We all thought that was a small slice of America...we were wrong. My European relatives were always kinda shocked at the low education levels in America. I told them it was fine as long as they didn't become decision makers..look what happened. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 17, 2021 14:55:00 GMT -8
Watch this video and then tell me it's sensationalized.
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Post by sdsuball on Jan 17, 2021 15:17:07 GMT -8
Versus: 1. Hilary Clinton 2. Joe Biden 3. Ted Cruz in the primary 4. Any other Republican in the primary 5. Any other moderate Democrat in the general election 6. Any other liberal Democrat in the general election 1. I’d take Trump over Hillary because I don’t trust the people Hillary surrounds herself with and she’s a terrible leader of people. 2. Biden is an empty suit so it depends on who his VP is but if it were Kamala again then I’d happily vote Trump. Kamala has no morals or ideology that I can detect. She’s the kind of person who will denounce someone as a racist and sexual abuser, then become his VP and promote him. She’ll advocate for prison reform but use every trick to keep people in prison to use them as cheap labor for the state. 3. At this point, I’d take Ted Cruz over Trump. 4. I prefer some Republicans to Trump and other Republicans I like less than Trump. 5 & 6. To me, 5 & 6 are the same question. I believe liberal Democrats are moderate Democrats and there could hypothetically be some I’d vote for, but there are no progressive Democrats I’d vote for. Progressivism is cancer, and not a synonym of “liberal” or “politically left”. The difference between a progressive and a liberal is that progressives hold that rights and privileges of the group outweigh rights and privileges of the individual. Liberals believe the opposite of that. As a practical example, a Progressive would support hate speech laws to prevent an individual from voicing hate against a marginalized group. A Liberal would oppose hate speech laws because an individual’s right to speech is more important than the rights of any group to not be offended. There aren’t many true liberals still in the Democrat party but if there were one I’d consider voting for them over Trump. Trumpism: Pro authoritarianism Nationalism Xenophobic Racism Pro corporations I am not a fan of the aggregate package of ideas you’ve enumerated, but I do support both patriotism and business-friendly economic policies which you’ve included in your list under different labels. I have two main thoughts. Here is my first How could (anyone) vote for Trump after witnessing what he has done surrounding the 2020 election? He tried to incite political violence to stay in power, and unsucessfully pressured Pence and state officials to act illegally to overturn election results. That is objectionable to me from a moral compass standpoint, and that's why I'm so upset that so many people (like you do) still support him. You care more about getting your tax breaks, or supreme court justices, or gun laws, then you care about preserving our country as a Republic, if you would vote for him again after what he did. |
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Post by sdsuball on Jan 17, 2021 16:02:06 GMT -8
Versus: 1. Hilary Clinton 2. Joe Biden 3. Ted Cruz in the primary 4. Any other Republican in the primary 5. Any other moderate Democrat in the general election 6. Any other liberal Democrat in the general election 1. I’d take Trump over Hillary because I don’t trust the people Hillary surrounds herself with and she’s a terrible leader of people. 2. Biden is an empty suit so it depends on who his VP is but if it were Kamala again then I’d happily vote Trump. Kamala has no morals or ideology that I can detect. She’s the kind of person who will denounce someone as a racist and sexual abuser, then become his VP and promote him. She’ll advocate for prison reform but use every trick to keep people in prison to use them as cheap labor for the state. 3. At this point, I’d take Ted Cruz over Trump. 4. I prefer some Republicans to Trump and other Republicans I like less than Trump. 5 & 6. To me, 5 & 6 are the same question. I believe liberal Democrats are moderate Democrats and there could hypothetically be some I’d vote for, but there are no progressive Democrats I’d vote for. Progressivism is cancer, and not a synonym of “liberal” or “politically left”. The difference between a progressive and a liberal is that progressives hold that rights and privileges of the group outweigh rights and privileges of the individual. Liberals believe the opposite of that. As a practical example, a Progressive would support hate speech laws to prevent an individual from voicing hate against a marginalized group. A Liberal would oppose hate speech laws because an individual’s right to speech is more important than the rights of any group to not be offended. There aren’t many true liberals still in the Democrat party but if there were one I’d consider voting for them over Trump. Trumpism: Pro authoritarianism Nationalism Xenophobic Racism Pro corporations I am not a fan of the aggregate package of ideas you’ve enumerated, but I do support both patriotism and business-friendly economic policies which you’ve included in your list under different labels. Here is my second thought For me, the difference between progressive and moderate Democrats is social policies and taxation, primarily. Most if not all Democrats are pro-abortion rights, LGBT rights, tighter gun laws. To me those three issues are often the difference between moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans - those social issues. Moderates in both parties are middle of the road on taxation, and in general are for keeping things mostly how they are today. Moderates of both parties favor current military spending levels (progressive Democrats are not). Moderate Democrats generally take corporate donations and are pro corporate interests, but may not take oil and gas money specifically. They are often opposed to fossil fuel lobbying interests. This would include Pelosi, Obama, Biden. Until the last ten years or so this was almost all of the Democrats. Progressives believe in expanding government spending in social programs (universal college, universal preschool, universal healthcare, universal basic income, to name a few). This group believes that the wealthiest tax brackets should pay more in taxes, and most of them also believe that our country spends way too much money on military spending compared to the rest of the world (so they want to cut spending these as well to pay for social programs). Most of these politicians (Sanders, Yang, AOC) would say that runaway wealth inequality over the last 50 years and the erosion of the middle class warrant these progressive policies to increase the betterment of Americans, but especially younger people and families. The reason why I specified that Trump is Pro-Corporations (not pro business) is because he specifically took several steps to benefit large corporations (Not small businesses). He gave them corporate tax breaks, gave their owners and shareholders capital gains tax breaks, and let them move overseas money back into America at a tax discount. Often I feel like the difference between Democrats and Republicans in their policies is (which) businesses benefit from changes, and how much taxes will go up or down. Republican policies tend to benefit established publically traded corporations. Moderate Democratic policies tend to mostly benefit those same groups, with the exception of fossil fuel interests. Progressive Democratic policies would help certain industries a lot (daycares, universities with universal preschool/college), bread and butter consumption industries would benefit significantly from universal basic incone because the bottom 50-80% of the country would have significantly more money to spend in the economy (these groups tend to consume most of their income, saving little because they dont have a lot in the first place). Universal healthcare would make for a much more efficient healthcare system (as evidenced by other countries, who have better quality of care then the US and pay less per capita for healthcare). This would cause economic contraction in the healthcare sector - doctors would make less money, for example - and people would pay less for healthcare. Cutting the military budget would involve cuts to production of military equipment more so the troop reductions, so the military-industrial complex of our economy would contract. In sum, we would be changing what our economy produces (on net IMO it would create economic growth, because a better educated work force would be more productive, universal preschool makes it easier for both parents to work or go to college to retrain. Additionally, the economic benefits of UBI would be enormous due to the large increases in consumer spending - and the money would just flow back to businesses anyways). Programs such as Green New Deal would create economic growth in clean energy. I think that Republicans like to label these programs anti-business or bad for business, when in reality they are just bad for certain established businesses (fossil fuels) but good for incubating green energy companies - the next Tesla type company. It's interesting that you see liberal vs. progressive in that manner- I use the terms interchangeably. Progressive to me means progress, towards a better future - moderate means to moderate efforts of change vs. efforts to conserve the status quo, and conservative means to conserve things the way that they are today- for older people who have money in the bank and dont want to get taxed/care most about financial and military security, for companies who have market power and want to hold onto their market power (even if that means stifling innovation), and in general for wealthy people who want more wealth and power. Just my two cents. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jan 23, 2021 13:08:21 GMT -8
More details about how Trump tried to have officials overturn the election based on the accusations of fraud (without any real proof). www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-weighed-firing-acting-ag-jeffery-rosen-during-final-weeks-to-pursue-unfounded-voter-fraud-claims/ar-BB1d1JaC?ocid=msedgntpAgain noting how Trump's own Cybersecurity Chief said there was no fraud, and Trump's Attorney General said there was no fraud. So if you can't do it through coercion, just start a riot at the Capitol and have the election certification stopped by force. The, "Rally," was scheduled weeks in advance. Online recruitment for people with tactical training and weapons was rampant on Parler and other far right social media. There was coordination with someone in the Executive Branch, as the National Guard was kept away and the security level at the Capital was low, even for a regular day (which that most certainly wasn't). Extremists who resort to lying to work up 1/3 of the population into thinking that their country is being stolen from them must be stopped. It doesn't matter which side (right or left) those extremists are on, what they are doing must be stopped. It cannot be tolerated. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jan 31, 2021 22:19:32 GMT -8
A smoking gun. Trump's newly appointed ACTING Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller refused to let the National Guard be deployed in any meaningful way on January 6. The only person with the authority to approve or deny this order was Donald Trump. (No way did Miller make this decision on his own without consulting Trump first.) The text is a little blurry, but readable.  |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Feb 1, 2021 7:51:53 GMT -8
A smoking gun. Trump's newly appointed ACTING Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller refused to let the National Guard be deployed in any meaningful way on January 6. The only person with the authority to approve or deny this order was Donald Trump. (No way did Miller make this decision on his own without consulting Trump first.) Thanks QAnon but maybe you should have included that these were the standing orders for ALL of the deployments for ALL of the "protests" in the capitol over the past year. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Feb 1, 2021 8:20:17 GMT -8
A smoking gun. Trump's newly appointed ACTING Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller refused to let the National Guard be deployed in any meaningful way on January 6. The only person with the authority to approve or deny this order was Donald Trump. (No way did Miller make this decision on his own without consulting Trump first.) Thanks QAnon but maybe you should have included that these were the standing orders for ALL of the deployments for ALL of the "protests" in the capitol over the past year. Except they weren't. When BLM protested the National Guard was in full tactical gear. And they were on the steps. A lot of them. And, unlike the BLM protest, the Trump insurrectionists were coming well armed. There were literally thousands of posts online with people coordinating who was bringing weapons and what their strategy would be. There was a clear and present danger. Oh, that's right. Trump gutted the department that analyzed online threats two months before the election, so while some in the FBI and Homeland Security knew about the threats, it wasn't as widely known or analyzed as it should have been. |
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Post by Al-O-Meter on Feb 1, 2021 8:43:34 GMT -8
Thanks QAnon but maybe you should have included that these were the standing orders for ALL of the deployments for ALL of the "protests" in the capitol over the past year. Except they weren't. When BLM protested the National Guard was in full tactical gear. Nothing in that memo says the National Guard couldn't wear tactical gear. The standing orders were identical. You are making things up. |
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