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Post by legkick on Mar 13, 2017 14:54:23 GMT -8
The thread is called "Are trolls ruining this site?"... The answer is simple - yes. Call them whatever you want (if troll is offensive based on ATalk days), a troll by any other name is just as trollish. That's the crazy part. Only 2 out of 50 respondents deny a troll problem. 13 aren't bothered much by it, but implicit in that response is an acknowledgement that there are a ton of trolls. 35 (70%) agree that trolls are ruining the board. That doesn't even include the many posters who left this board because of how badly it has devolved. If that isn't a huge red flag, then it is pretty clearly a beat-head-against-wall situation and any further discussion is pointless.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 14:57:17 GMT -8
What personal attacks have there been against Coach Fisher? Saying that he's too old to do his job well? That's not personal, that's professional. I have read a total of ZERO comments saying anything remotely negative about him as a person. And, again, I want to make it clear - I do not agree with the opinion that Coach Fisher is no longer effective and can't do his job well anymore. I believe he can. But if someone disagrees, even if that opinion is based on age, that isn't personal because it's all about job performance and the ability to do the job well. Here, I'll give you hours upon hours of quality reading..... aztecmesa.proboards.com/user/2808/recentHere's just one quick example. Interpret as you wish..... "Where did you go you wuss? did you crawl under your rock little boy? I was spot on and you were wrong and you look like an idiot now.! Keep idolizing this dumb coach of ours!" Like I have already said a couple of times, but it doesn't seem to be sinking in - It's not whether people are "allowed" to attack as such, it's that you are losing numerous quality posters because of it, which further advances the decline of this board. You can turn a blind eye all you want, but that won't save this board from sinking into oblivion. Your choice. No one is, "Allowed," to post stuff like that. Don't assume that we read every post, or even half the posts that are written here. There are just too many. That one, for example, I had not seen. And it has now been addressed, so thank you for alerting me to it. I would have likely not seen it otherwise. Now I was able to take action and issue the appropriate warning. See how easy that is? See how well that works?
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Post by junior on Mar 13, 2017 14:59:50 GMT -8
gif posted with the point of being part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. You may not remember, but the last time we asked for volunteers we weren't exactly flooded with offers. So you can say, "Get another mod or two," all you like, but the reality is there are damned few people here who have proven themselves to be trustworthy enough for the job, and fewer still who are willing to do it without pay... I guess self-regulation and self-responsibilty just aren't ever going to be in some posters' DNA… That's too bad.
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Post by momoney on Mar 13, 2017 15:03:33 GMT -8
The thread is called "Are trolls ruining this site?"... The answer is simple - yes. Call them whatever you want (if troll is offensive based on ATalk days), a troll by any other name is just as trollish. That's the crazy part. Only 2 out of 50 respondents deny a troll problem. 13 aren't bothered much by it, but implicit in that response is an acknowledgement that there are a ton of trolls. 35 (70%) agree that trolls are ruining the board. That doesn't even include the many posters who left this board because of how badly it has devolved. If that isn't a huge red flag, then it is pretty clearly a beat-head-against-wall situation and any further discussion is pointless. if polls were accurate, let alone unscientific ones, we'd have Hillary Clinton as president. The side that wins in these unscientific polls are usually the very vocal ones, not the majority. Kind of like how Ron Paul would usually wins internet polls for President.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 15:06:02 GMT -8
Reading through the posts for that individual linked above I saw ZERO posts worth responses. Why bother? Just ignore ridiculous comments and move on. That should be obvious.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 13, 2017 15:06:37 GMT -8
You may not remember, but the last time we asked for volunteers we weren't exactly flooded with offers. So you can say, "Get another mod or two," all you like, but the reality is there are damned few people here who have proven themselves to be trustworthy enough for the job, and fewer still who are willing to do it without pay... I guess self-regulation and self-responsibilty just aren't ever going to be in some posters' DNA… That's too bad. Agreed.
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Post by legkick on Mar 13, 2017 15:10:03 GMT -8
if polls were accurate, let alone unscientific ones, we'd have Hillary Clinton as president. The side that wins in these unscientific polls are usually the very vocal ones, not the majority. Kind of like how Ron Paul would usually wins internet polls for President. Fallacious argument as usual, but not unexpected from the same poster who demands that Fisher go. You don't know the temperature of this board and you don't know how people feel about this issue. You don't know how many good posters left as this board devolved into a cesspool. By the way, especially since you don't know what you are talking about, the polls were accurate with respect to the national popular vote. They tightened to about 3 percent in the closing days, and that is pretty much the percentage (+/- 1) that Clinton won the popular vote. Completely misses the point though, which you have shown you are good at doing.
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Post by momoney on Mar 13, 2017 15:21:08 GMT -8
if polls were accurate, let alone unscientific ones, we'd have Hillary Clinton as president. The side that wins in these unscientific polls are usually the very vocal ones, not the majority. Kind of like how Ron Paul would usually wins internet polls for President. Fallacious argument as usual, but not unexpected from the same poster who demands that Fisher go. You don't know the temperature of this board and you don't know how people feel about this issue. You don't know how many good posters left as this board devolved into a cesspool. By the way, especially since you don't know what you are talking about, the polls were accurate with respect to the national popular vote. They tightened to about 3 percent in the closing days, and that is pretty much the percentage (+/- 1) that Clinton won the popular vote. Completely misses the point though, which you have shown you are good at doing. some people on here wouldn't be happy with any site because some of you just want groupthink and don't want to hear any dissenting opinions or they're "trolls" if they state them. That's pretty sad, I for one like hearing differing views, if everyone has the same things to say and not be allowed to say views you or I disagree with, it be a very boring site not even worth looking at.
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Post by biotec on Mar 13, 2017 15:36:18 GMT -8
The thread is called "Are trolls ruining this site?"... The answer is simple - yes. Call them whatever you want (if troll is offensive based on ATalk days), a troll by any other name is just as trollish. That's the crazy part. Only 2 out of 50 respondents deny a troll problem. 13 aren't bothered much by it, but implicit in that response is an acknowledge that there are a ton of trolls. 35 (70%) agree that trolls are ruining the board. That doesn't even include the many posters who left this board because of how badly it has devolved. Agreed on the last point. AztecMesa is pretty well known as a cesspool of negativity. I think of it as the stock market: bulls vs. bears. There are bulls on here (legkick, azteccc, etc.) and there are bears (NCM, aloha, douchey). No one is bullish or bearish all the time, but it does have to do with your general disposition and how one responds to the climate. Many people can be bullish and then slip right over into bearish as soon as you have two data points to make a downward line. It's human nature to do the simplest linear extrapolation and figure that since we got 28 wins last year, 19 this year, we'll have 10 wins next year, and in two years we're going to be the worst team in NCAA division 1. Others may look at our 200-day moving average and say, hey, we've had a few recent blips, but the overall trend is intact. Nothing goes straight up. Some people believe in the short term trends and some believe in the long-term trends. What's really important in regards to this board is simply to answer the question of "What kind of board do I want?" For me personally, I like coming here when times are good, we're winning, and I can share my enthusiasm for Aztec sports. Mostly, things are framed positively. When things aren't going so well, it gets ugly. Ugly to where I stay away after disappointing losses and performances. And ugly to the point where the parents of players are coming on here and seeing their sons slammed by supporters of the school they're representing. I DON'T come here to try to argue with bears. It's like trying get someone to change political parties - it won't work - people just see things differently. The result is that after a disappointing loss we see multiple bedwetting threads all containing pretty much the same thing: I'VE NEVER SEEN SUCH AN EMBARRASSMENT IN MY ENTIRE LIFE (yada yada) Wha' ? Sure, it doesn't break the rules, but c'mon, it makes this place look completely unmoderated. Threads like these should be locked and/or deleted. Most people don't need to be banned. But a start would be to put all the gameday commentary and bedwetting into a subforum for gameday talk.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 15:44:09 GMT -8
The result is that after a disappointing loss we multiple bedwetting threads all containing pretty much the same thing: I'VE NEVER SEEN SUCH AN EMBARRASSMENT IN MY ENTIRE LIFE (yada yada) Wha' ? Sure, it doesn't break the rules, but c'mon, it makes this place look completely unmoderated. Threads like these should be locked and/or deleted. Most people don't need to be banned. Just put all the gameday commentary and bedwetting into a subforum for gameday talk. Threads that are negative in nature but don't break the rules should be locked or deleted based on what? An opinion that we don't like the threads? That doesn't allow for people to post their honest opinions. It would have a chilling effect. "Only positive posts/threads are allowed," would be the unspoken message. Now if you find that someone is crossing the line, and engaging in nothing but hyperbole and ultra negativity to where you believe that person to be a troll, sending a link by PM is VERY effective - which is what I've been trying to say here for the last few pages. An example of how well that works is in a couple previous posts where someone posted a link and I took action (on something I had not seen previously). To make the board work as well as the people complaining here want it to work will require a team effort. Not just people in the stands eating their popcorn and booing the refs.
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Post by longtimesdsufan on Mar 13, 2017 16:20:16 GMT -8
I see the problem as being more worried about rules than goals. How about a rule to not insult/belittle players? Name one player or player parent who is happy with this board.
There are clearly posts where posters just want to upset true Aztec supporters. They are pretty obvious posts to most of us here.
You make the rules.....and the rules are not working.
Anyone in management knows that to have a successful organization, first you have goals, and then objectives. Rules are to obtain objectives.
For example, is the goal to help the Aztecs to get better or rant how bad they are? Any succesful parent knows the answer. But fans get upset at a lose and say things they would never say to a coach of player. Is the goal of this site to have people blow off steam?
Is the goal to share knowledge? Fact based opinion is better for discussion. If someone thinks there is a better choice than Fisher, say who and why they would come here.
Is the goal to keep posters that have knowledge, or team news? Or is it better that many, many of these posters have left, and more will be going?
Another way to look at this: How many of the posters here voted that the site was getting ruined by trolls/negative posters/or whatever name. Any business person would look at the number of unhappy customers and try to make improvements.
I like to say, a company is either growing or dieing. History agrees.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 16:42:37 GMT -8
I see the problem as being more worried about rules than goals. Fair enough. Not an unreasonable observation/assessment. Maybe not completely accurate, but not unreasonable. My issue with that is that how far does that extend? Saying someone plays like an idiot could be construed as an insult, when it may just be factually correct (ie: a player calling timeout when the team is out of timeouts and getting penalized for it, a player running out of bounds when the team is trying to run out the clock, etc). Players are public figures. They are open to public criticism. They know that when they sign on. And if you think this board is bad, you should see some of the boards where the expectations are Elite 8 or football playoffs every year! When they don't get those things it makes this place look like Sunday School! I didn't know we had mind readers among our members. I know the official who threw the flag for intentional grounding against the Aztecs in the 1998 Las Vegas Bowl was telepathic, because he had to be to know where the Aztec QB was attempting to throw the ball a millisecond before the wind took it straight up and then sideways & out of bounds - but I didn't know that we had telepaths here! Seriously, some people that are considered trolls here truly aren't. They do have a more negative mindset and point of view, but they aren't really, "Trolls." Others, well - we certainly have had trolls, and many of them have been warned and some banned (including Douchey just about two weeks ago). I view it this way - we want people to feel comfortable posting their HONEST opinions, and if those happen to be negative, so be it. We'd prefer more positive posts than negative, but we don't want this to be a cheerleading board, either. Things aren't always sunshine and roses for Aztec athletics, and calling a spade a spade is fair and people should be allowed to do so on an athletic message board. The goal is simply this - to have a place where Aztec fans and alums can post their HONEST opinions about Aztec athletics. A place where people can get and share information, and also a place to give their own take on what is going on. We don't want people to feel like they are going to be attacked for posting an opinion that isn't popular. We don't want board members to insult each other, either. And that's about it. I know from my job as a senior agent in an insurance company's customer service department that a large percentage of customers are never happy. No matter what you do, no matter how fair you are, no matter how hard you try to help them some people just want to bitch and complain about the company's management and how the company is run. A very large percentage (probably 30 percent or more). You don't cater to those people. You cater to the other 70%. You treat EVERYONE fairly, and you do your best to help everyone get what they need, but, ultimately, some people want what you can't give. They don't care that it isn't possible, and you can tell them, "I'm sorry, but we can't do that," in 10 different ways, and offer them other solutions, but they still aren't satisfied. So, knowing that, we try to treat everyone fairly here. We work with everyone who wants to work with us. We address every issue that is brought to our attention and we try to resolve each and every one of them. We can't always succeed, but we try. And we're not getting paid for a minute of this work, either. We do it because we love San Diego State and Aztec Athletics. If there is a member who is truly trolling, then that requires that team effort I mentioned a post or two ago. We need EVERYONE to be part of the team. We don't need spectators booing the refs while they're sitting in the stands drinking their beer. We need people to send us links by PM when there is truly a problem. When someone is out of line, don't just assume that we've seen it and are OK with it. Chances are, we haven't seen it and won't be OK with it once we do. Sometimes our opinion as to whether that's a rules violation or something to be addressed may differ from yours, other times we will be right in line with what you're thinking. But it will require a TEAM EFFORT to achieve what you want.
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Post by North County Aztec on Mar 13, 2017 19:38:17 GMT -8
Having been a mod for Proboards for several years I have empathy for the mods here. At Proboards it is mostly about support, site improvements, development, plugins, etcetera however there is a “General Talk” board also. The usual common sense applies but it was difficult since English was a second language for some or they relied on Google Translator. So you really had to climb in the head of the author. That’s not an issue here.
I’ve read most of the post on this thread then tried to apply my past performance/experience on Proboards. There were 1,000’s of complaints daily from message boards claiming someone violated a rule, 99.99% of the time they didn’t violate a Proboards rule but may have a rule outside of Proboards, rules defined by the board owner. Proboards rules cannot be superseded only added to.
Continuing. On the support side hijacking a thread came with one warning, that’s it, next time, good bye. I’m pretty sure someone like ctap13 would have been banned if he were posting in General Talk at Proboards. Ctap13 fits a previously posted definition of a troll. Additionally you just know a troll when you see one.
There are some that live a life of negativity I’m one that avoids those kind of people. In life and on message boards. They are not on my Christmas card list. The theme I’m picking up on this thread is post and threads that basically say the same thing over and over again many here find objectionable. In court the opposing attorney would say, “Asked and answered” and again going back to my days at Proboards that would also apply. After all how many times do we need to see a “Fish Resign” type thread. The mods do have the ability to merge threads however it is time consuming but I haven’t seen any effort to do so, personally not worth the effort so a “Asked and answered” style PM would be fitting to the over-and-over again poster. Mods responsibility not ours to inform the mods. If that doesn’t work then c’ya. We can’t expect a Rodney King message board that’s never going to happen but a message board is a community and communities have their odd balls and differences. Sorry Mike but that brings me to you. Personally I don’t believe you fit in a salubrious community and I believe the mods are responsible as they have set the tone.
And to be honest once when I had the power I almost deleted Aztec Mesa, on numerous occasions the mods failed to follow Proboards rules. I’m an Aztec yet I was blasted because I would post and report the sale of illegal gear on this board. The mods paid zero attention to my request and one occasion I was attacked by a mod for defending athletics. Another story for another time, my personal rant with how this board has been run. If the community wants new ownership then I’d challenge the current owners to open it up for a vote. Numerous times I’ve seen the board owner give up.ownership because their agenda conflicted with the majority.
Eric just think of how many hours you've spend defending yourself if you would have spend those hours reading post that were not directed at you this might be a different place.
BTW I voted "no"
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Post by bagtec on Mar 13, 2017 20:53:53 GMT -8
I think people are confusing moderator with administrator. There is only 1 mod and 2 admins. I have no clue how much time they spend on here or how many posts per day they see, but it seems that most members can co-exist just fine. The problem to me is that while is might not be obvious to the a mod/admin who checks in once a day there are definitely posters whose only goal is to rile everyone up and then they disappear for awhile. Maybe they don't break rules but they add nothing of substance to this board and some people cant simply let that go. I remember a couple years ago this same topic was brought up and a lot of members defended the admins for having a tough and thankless job, giving us all a place to interact with other SDSU fans. I don't see many people defending them now unless its because they are being personally called out. Its hard to ruin what has already been. For the record I don't think NCM or aloha is a troll but the others mentioned don't provide much more then the same regurgitated words. Finally since suggestions have been asked for I think the most important one is a limit on creating threads per week/day. If not then maybe the offseason is a good time to find an alternative solution, there is enough defectors from this board over the past two years that can provide enough good content id give it a go, hell I just posted last week for the first time on the MW board.
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Post by popeman on Mar 13, 2017 20:55:43 GMT -8
i voted no
just because someone is showing frustration or discontent for the mbb program does not mean we are "trolls"
for the most part, i rarely see any obvious troll posts.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 23:12:06 GMT -8
Having been a mod for Proboards for several years I have empathy for the mods here. At Proboards it is mostly about support, site improvements, development, plugins, etcetera however there is a “General Talk” board also. The usual common sense applies but it was difficult since English was a second language for some or they relied on Google Translator. So you really had to climb in the head of the author. That’s not an issue here. I’ve read most of the post on this thread then tried to apply my past performance/experience on Proboards. There were 1,000’s of complaints daily from message boards claiming someone violated a rule, 99.99% of the time they didn’t violate a Proboards rule but may have a rule outside of Proboards, rules defined by the board owner. Proboards rules cannot be superseded only added to. Continuing. On the support side hijacking a thread came with one warning, that’s it, next time, good bye. I’m pretty sure someone like ctap13 would have been banned if he were posting in General Talk at Proboards. Ctap13 fits a previously posted definition of a troll. Additionally you just know a troll when you see one. We can't play mind reader (it is very hard to know intent), and people have a right to their opinions. It is rather unreasonable to expect people to post happy comments after a bad loss or a disappointing season. Squash dissent and you might as well close the board because then all you get is cheerleading. We don't want people posting threads or even individual posts just to annoy or irritate people, but we also don't want to have a chilling effect on honest opinions, even unpopular ones. We're not talking about offensive posts - those are dealt with when they are found and the offenders warned (and, on occasion, banned). We're talking about opinions and feelings about sports teams and a university that most of the board members attended and care about deeply. Emotions run high when things go wrong, and to expect everyone to keep their cool is unreasonable. What we do expect is for board members to behave in a civil manner. What some people find objectionable is negative, critical posts. Unless the Aztecs go undefeated, there will always be room for negative, critical posts. It is appropriate for fans to be critical when someone underperforms, be it a player or a coach or the entire team. It is NOT appropriate, however, for people to be critical of good performances, and in that regard we are completely sympathetic to those who find those kinds of posts annoying and a nuisance. We do, too.I've probably merged 300 threads or more over the years. Trust me, the effort has been made, time and time again. Again, it comes down to intent. In law, proving intent is the hardest thing for a prosecuting attorney to do. The bar is set extremely high. We follow that line of thought here. None of us are mind readers, and pretending to know intent is arrogant at best, foolhardy at worst. And since we created this community we have the right to set the standards. If someone breaks the rules, if someone attacks or insults another board member and we catch that post they receive a warning. Multiple warnings can result in bannings. We'd rather not go there, but in some cases there is no alternative. And if you don't believe that board members have a responsibility to inform us when someone is breaking the rules then they have no right to complain about it, either. We have jobs, lives, and responsibilities outside of this board. We don't get paid a dime to do this. All we ask is that if you see something egregious let us know by PM and include a link. We'll deal with it appropriately when that happens. Really? What rules were those? And what notification was given that said rules were violated? None. A warning or some kind of notification would be nice. It would certainly make it easier to deal with issues as they come up. I know that Proboards does not allow personal attacks and the like, and we echo those rules here. It is flat out impossible to catch every violation, which is why I've asked for help from those who find such posts troubling. If you see something that you find offensive, or if you see someone engaging in troll-like beahvior let us investigate it, but there is no way for us to see even half of what gets posted here. It just isn't logistically possible. Attacked by a mod? Really? Why don't you address that with me by PM and we can discuss it. I certainly don't remember anything remotely like that happening. And sale of illegal gear? We don't allow people to sell gear. This whole issue seems odd... Look, I don't want to cast doubt on the veracity of your statement there, but I just checked through my ENTIRE PM inbox going back to 2010, and I didn't receive a single PM from you. Ever. Now I know I've dealt with so many people here and have read tens of thousands of posts over the last 7 years, so it certainly is possible, but I don't remember any issue with you. And as there isn't a single PM from you this seems exceptionally odd. And yet you haven't said a thing about it to us, privately. Odd. Not gonna happen. We created this board and have put in literally thousands of hours working on it. All to create a place where people can discuss Aztec athletics and related topics. If someone believes they can come up with a better community, and they're willing to put in thousands of hours of their own time creating, improving the functionality, and moderating their own Aztec board then more power to them! Maybe they're right! Maybe they can come up with a better board. We're not perfect, that's for sure - and we've never claimed to be! But we are dedicated fans and we care deeply about Aztec athletics and San Diego State University. If that's not good enough then I'm sorry, but that's the best we've got. On the other hand, if anyone here wants to help make this a better forum then join the team - help us make this a better forum! Give us feedback by PM. Report posts that we may not have seen but are likely rules violations. I've said it a couple times now - You can be part of the team, or a spectator in the stands booing the ref.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 23:19:14 GMT -8
And this thread is going to be moved to the Feedback forum tomorrow (3/14), which is where it is on topic. I just wanted to advise of the move before it happens.
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Post by azteccc on Mar 14, 2017 5:58:27 GMT -8
I think people are confusing moderator with administrator. There is only 1 mod and 2 admins. I have no clue how much time they spend on here or how many posts per day they see, but it seems that most members can co-exist just fine. The problem to me is that while is might not be obvious to the a mod/admin who checks in once a day there are definitely posters whose only goal is to rile everyone up and then they disappear for awhile. Maybe they don't break rules but they add nothing of substance to this board and some people cant simply let that go. I remember a couple years ago this same topic was brought up and a lot of members defended the admins for having a tough and thankless job, giving us all a place to interact with other SDSU fans. I don't see many people defending them now unless its because they are being personally called out. Its hard to ruin what has already been. For the record I don't think NCM or aloha is a troll but the others mentioned don't provide much more then the same regurgitated words. Finally since suggestions have been asked for I think the most important one is a limit on creating threads per week/day. If not then maybe the offseason is a good time to find an alternative solution, there is enough defectors from this board over the past two years that can provide enough good content id give it a go, hell I just posted last week for the first time on the MW board. This is absolutely correct, and as stated above the main admin spends 30 minutes per day reading threads and misses most posts (his words), so he isn't really tuned into what is going in. On top of that, he doesn't care to address it after being told. Just deflects back to those telling him. Ah well, it was a good run.
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Post by azson on Mar 14, 2017 7:50:24 GMT -8
That's the crazy part. Only 2 out of 50 respondents deny a troll problem. 13 aren't bothered much by it, but implicit in that response is an acknowledge that there are a ton of trolls. 35 (70%) agree that trolls are ruining the board. That doesn't even include the many posters who left this board because of how badly it has devolved. Agreed on the last point. AztecMesa is pretty well known as a cesspool of negativity. I think of it as the stock market: bulls vs. bears. There are bulls on here (legkick, azteccc, etc.) and there are bears (NCM, aloha, douchey). No one is bullish or bearish all the time, but it does have to do with your general disposition and how one responds to the climate. Many people can be bullish and then slip right over into bearish as soon as you have two data points to make a downward line. It's human nature to do the simplest linear extrapolation and figure that since we got 28 wins last year, 19 this year, we'll have 10 wins next year, and in two years we're going to be the worst team in NCAA division 1. Others may look at our 200-day moving average and say, hey, we've had a few recent blips, but the overall trend is intact. Nothing goes straight up. Some people believe in the short term trends and some believe in the long-term trends. What's really important in regards to this board is simply to answer the question of "What kind of board do I want?" For me personally, I like coming here when times are good, we're winning, and I can share my enthusiasm for Aztec sports. Mostly, things are framed positively. When things aren't going so well, it gets ugly. Ugly to where I stay away after disappointing losses and performances. And ugly to the point where the parents of players are coming on here and seeing their sons slammed by supporters of the school they're representing. I DON'T come here to try to argue with bears. It's like trying get someone to change political parties - it won't work - people just see things differently. The result is that after a disappointing loss we see multiple bedwetting threads all containing pretty much the same thing: I'VE NEVER SEEN SUCH AN EMBARRASSMENT IN MY ENTIRE LIFE (yada yada) Wha' ? Sure, it doesn't break the rules, but c'mon, it makes this place look completely unmoderated. Threads like these should be locked and/or deleted. Most people don't need to be banned. But a start would be to put all the gameday commentary and bedwetting into a subforum for gameday talk. Agree on NCM, but I challenge you to show me an example of a non-troll post by the other two.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 14, 2017 8:36:46 GMT -8
if polls were accurate, let alone unscientific ones, we'd have Hillary Clinton as president. The side that wins in these unscientific polls are usually the very vocal ones, not the majority. Kind of like how Ron Paul would usually wins internet polls for President. Fallacious argument as usual, but not unexpected from the same poster who demands that Fisher go. You don't know the temperature of this board and you don't know how people feel about this issue. You don't know how many good posters left as this board devolved into a cesspool. By the way, especially since you don't know what you are talking about, the polls were accurate with respect to the national popular vote. They tightened to about 3 percent in the closing days, and that is pretty much the percentage (+/- 1) that Clinton won the popular vote. Completely misses the point though, which you have shown you are good at doing. But you do? Wow, the level of continued hypocrisy is ridiculous. Or is that a "fallacious argument" too?
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