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Post by azson on Mar 13, 2017 11:48:51 GMT -8
Again, I'm not seeing even one actionable suggestion on how, within the rules, to make things better.We can't ban someone for posting a legitimate opinion, even if it is an unpopular one. We can issue warnings if someone is clearly, without question, posting things just to anger or upset others, and if they persist THEN we can ban them. But just for posting negative, unpopular opinions? Nope. And we're not mind readers, and neither are any of you, so it takes a lot longer to deal with trolls than other rule breakers. It's not cut and dried. Where is that line that separates legitimate opinion or frustration from trolling? It's like that yellow line for first downs on TV. It doesn't exist on the field. It's not rocket science, dude. Fembone would give a warning (to those fitting LTB's troll definition above) and if it wasn't heeded she'd lay the ban-hammer down. Are you being disingenuous or are you really still not getting it?
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Post by momoney on Mar 13, 2017 11:50:53 GMT -8
If you can't see it, sending posts isn't going to change anything (as was mentioned above). If you spend 30 minutes a day here, and miss most threads, than I understand you may not get a complete sense of what is actually happening on your board. If that is indeed the case, I suggest you get one or two more assistant moderators who are a bit more liberal with the temporary and permanent block buttons. We do have a third moderator. You know that, right? And that's why she left. She got tired of the bitching and moaning and childish behavior. She just threw her hands up in the air and said, "ENOUGH!!!" It wasn't the rule breakers she had a problem with, either. That stuff is easy to deal with because it's cut and dried, black and white. I tried to get her to stay, but she just couldn't deal with all the bitching and complaining about other board members anymore. She's much happier now. She has more free time and feels a lot less stress. Good for her. let me guess? She got tired of people who always yell "troll" whenever anybody has anything critical to say about the program? It's really too bad you can't say anything anymore without people accusing you of being a troll on this site. It reminds of politicians who called you unpatriotic if you weren't for every war.
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Post by northcountymike on Mar 13, 2017 11:52:50 GMT -8
I think you miss the overall point that some of us are trying to make. Basically, you don't get to decide who is a real fan and who isn't. Anyone who isn't a real fan by your standards is labeled a "troll," unfortunately. I wouldn't say you're not a "real" fan and you're also not a "fake" fan. However, anybody whose posts are negative 3/4 of the time about something as generally successful as Aztec basketball has zero cred. The same goes for cpap13, osdoublezero and a few others here. "Generally successful" is also subjective. Just because we've achieved "general" success in recent years doesn't mean that people don't have a right to want to continue it or even do better. Myself and a few others may have zero credibility with you, and that's cool. No one's forcing you to subscribe to our beliefs, nor are we criticizing you or claiming you know nothing about sports, either.
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Post by MarshallU on Mar 13, 2017 11:57:20 GMT -8
This was never an issue with our old assistant manager. BRING BACK FEMBONE 2017 she got tired of the car wreck this board has become as well
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Mar 13, 2017 11:57:39 GMT -8
If IYO Mike, Aztec basketball has been generally unsuccessful, please explain.
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Post by podpeople on Mar 13, 2017 12:00:27 GMT -8
Kind of sad that so many people are so intolerant of views that differ from their own. Especially considering the people towards whom they are intolerant have the exact same hopes and desires that they do - successful athletic programs for San Diego State. Well said.
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Post by azson on Mar 13, 2017 12:02:42 GMT -8
MODS MAKE THE RULES. You can't make the rules and then hide behind them. At least own it... Bottom line is - the default has gone from promoting reasonable discourse and getting rid of people who aggressively push hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posts over and over ad nauseum, to making sure those people have a safe space at the expense of the board. It's sad, but it is what it is. I get it, if we don't like it go somewhere else. It's just a shame that what used to be a place people could come for reasonable debate and always useful information has turned into a cesspool where hateful and unthoughtful and infantile posters can say whatever they like and then run and hide behind the mod team when they don't like someone responding in kind. I'm sorry, it isn't hard to tell the difference between someone who wants respectful discourse and someone who doesn't. It just isn't difficult. Yet from those who run this site you'd think they were the 9th circuit dealing with constitutional rights and protecting snowflakes on college campuses. Well said. Now that I think about it, I can remember in the past trolls being run for being trolls. Not any more. Yes, when Fembone was mod she'd ban-hammer fairly frequently (or extremely frequently if you compare to current mods) and this was a much more pleasant board to visit. Thank God for the FB page. And no, trolls, we're not precious snow-flakes there either. We disagree plenty, but are respectful.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 12:04:41 GMT -8
I guess at the end of the day you have to decide what kind of message board you want. Do you want a board that welcomes low-quality content for the sake of "not getting rid of the rule breakers" or do you want a board that promotes healthy discussion? This is really what it is. The issue, as I see it, is the board owners don't want to admit that this is a fundamental choice they are facing. They are currently making their choice VERY clear without even knowing/admitting they're making it. You persist in this nonsense. We cannot just take sides and play favorites. "Well, that opinion is OK, but that other one isn't." If we do that then that takes away the ability of the board members to post their honest opinions. You don't want people here whose opinions you don't like. Frankly, that's just not right. This is supposed to be an INclusive board, where members are free to post their honest opinions as long as they don't break forum rules - but that's not good enough for some of you. Well, that's just too damned bad. We're NOT going to say which opinions are OK and which ones aren't. We're not going to allow rule breaking, so when someone IS abusing the system and is clearly posting things just to get under the skin of other board members we will take action and remove that member (as we have done dozens of times over the years, including in just the last couple of weeks). You have no solutions. You just want people banned when you don't like their style or opinions. Well, that's just weak. If you disagree with someone, persuade them. Don't just demand that they be removed from the board. Again, if someone IS guilty of trolling send us the links by PM. Don't ass/u/me that we've seen the offending posts and just don't care.
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Post by azson on Mar 13, 2017 12:14:55 GMT -8
I can't see the word troll and not think of Droski. Wish we were playing Cal this year. He was fun. At least Droski made no pretense that he was an Aztec fan. He was loudly and proudly a Cal fan. Therefore, his "trolling" was much less irritating than our home grown trolls who claim to be real Aztec fans, but almost never have anything positive to say. Agreed, I have far more respect for Droski than 5-10 so called Aztec fans that have been posting here for years.
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Post by MontezumaPhil on Mar 13, 2017 12:18:29 GMT -8
Can anyone offer a one-sentence definition of a troll? Near as I can tell, the definition most people use is "a poster who disagrees with me."
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 12:23:32 GMT -8
Can anyone offer a one-sentence definition of a troll? Near as I can tell, the definition most people use is "a poster who disagrees with me." That seems to be true far too often. We got slammed for bringing down the ban hammer to quickly and too often in the past, now we're getting slammed for not bringing in down quicker and more often. Of course, just behaving like adults and tolerating other views and opinions (the ones that differ from your own) and ignoring posts you believe to be either trolling or just stupid would go a long way. As they say, "Don't feed the trolls," and they go away.
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Post by missiontrails on Mar 13, 2017 12:24:00 GMT -8
This is really what it is. The issue, as I see it, is the board owners don't want to admit that this is a fundamental choice they are facing. They are currently making their choice VERY clear without even knowing/admitting they're making it. You persist in this nonsense. We cannot just take sides and play favorites. "Well, that opinion is OK, but that other one isn't." If we do that then that takes away the ability of the board members to post their honest opinions. You don't want people here whose opinions you don't like. Frankly, that's just not right. This is supposed to be an INclusive board, where members are free to post their honest opinions as long as they don't break forum rules - but that's not good enough for some of you. Well, that's just too damned bad. We're NOT going to say which opinions are OK and which ones aren't. We're not going to allow rule breaking, so when someone IS abusing the system and is clearly posting things just to get under the skin of other board members we will take action and remove that member (as we have done dozens of times over the years, including in just the last couple of weeks). You have no solutions. You just want people banned when you don't like their style or opinions. Well, that's just weak. If you disagree with someone, persuade them. Don't just demand that they be removed from the board. Again, if someone IS guilty of trolling send us the links by PM. Don't ass/u/me that we've seen the offending posts and just don't care. See bold above. This is where the problem lies. You are making an assumption that is way off mark. The problem many are having is with the endless posting of the same message. Many of which are personal attacks on the players and/or coaching staff. Once these are repeated over and over, many posters are leaving this site and never coming back. You'll need to find the happy medium between free expression and losing all (most) of your readers/posters. It's your board, you run it as you wish, but I'm laying out the scenario for you. Good luck.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2017 12:25:40 GMT -8
You persist in this nonsense. We cannot just take sides and play favorites. "Well, that opinion is OK, but that other one isn't." If we do that then that takes away the ability of the board members to post their honest opinions. You don't want people here whose opinions you don't like. Frankly, that's just not right. This is supposed to be an INclusive board, where members are free to post their honest opinions as long as they don't break forum rules - but that's not good enough for some of you. Well, that's just too damned bad. We're NOT going to say which opinions are OK and which ones aren't. We're not going to allow rule breaking, so when someone IS abusing the system and is clearly posting things just to get under the skin of other board members we will take action and remove that member (as we have done dozens of times over the years, including in just the last couple of weeks). You have no solutions. You just want people banned when you don't like their style or opinions. Well, that's just weak. If you disagree with someone, persuade them. Don't just demand that they be removed from the board. Again, if someone IS guilty of trolling send us the links by PM. Don't ass/u/me that we've seen the offending posts and just don't care. See bold above. This is where the problem lies. You are making an assumption that is way off mark. The problem many are having is with the endless posting of the same message. Many of which are personal attacks on the players and/or coaching staff. Once these are repeated over and over, many posters are leaving this site and never coming back. You'll need to find the happy medium between free expression and losing all (most) of your readers/posters. It's your board, you run it as you wish, but I'm laying out the scenario for you. Good luck. See my last post above. And people aren't making personal attacks on the players and coaches, they are making professional attacks aimed at their job performances. When you take a position like coaching at a college or agree to take a scholarship (worth tens of thousands of dollars) to play for a college criticism comes with that territory.
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Post by azson on Mar 13, 2017 12:26:41 GMT -8
Can anyone offer a one-sentence definition of a troll? Near as I can tell, the definition most people use is "a poster who disagrees with me." In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
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Post by longtimebooster on Mar 13, 2017 12:30:23 GMT -8
Again, I'm not seeing even one actionable suggestion on how, within the rules, to make things better.We can't ban someone for posting a legitimate opinion, even if it is an unpopular one. We can issue warnings if someone is clearly, without question, posting things just to anger or upset others, and if they persist THEN we can ban them. But just for posting negative, unpopular opinions? Nope. And we're not mind readers, and neither are any of you, so it takes a lot longer to deal with trolls than other rule breakers. It's not cut and dried. Where is that line that separates legitimate opinion or frustration from trolling? It's like that yellow line for first downs on TV. It doesn't exist on the field. It's not rocket science, dude. Fembone would give a warning (to those fitting LTB's troll definition above) and if it wasn't heeded she'd lay the ban-hammer down. Are you being disingenuous or are you really still not getting it? This. C'mon Aztec Panther, I love you, man, and don't envy your job on this board. But this is an SDSU fan board, not a first amendment zone where anyone can say anything anytime as long as they're semi-nice about it. That can't be your only criteria. And, again, if you can't discern a troll from a garden-variety knucklehead with a negative opinion, maybe you shouldn't be in the cockpit. As for NCM, he clearly fits the troll category. If you'd like -- and I really don't want to have to resort to this, but will if it might sate your intellectual curiosity -- I can go through a dozen or two dozen valid, initially interesting/relevant threads utterly hijacked, devolved and destroyed by NCM. Yes, he's a nice guy. Yes, he's polite. No, he doesn't resort to name calling (in fact, the reverse is probably true -- he gets called plenty of names.) But that can't be the only standard. The guy is a troll through and through. He oozes disingenuity. He hijacks threads constantly. He makes everything about himself. He starts random arguments for the sake of starting random arguments. He is persistently, maliciously negative. Anytime he says something even slightly leaning toward positivity, he adds a backhanded compliment to balance things out. And I could go on. And on. And on. Again, if you'd like, I'll walk you through examples. And, no, I have a thick skin and can go mano-a-mano (or keyboard-a-keyboard, if you like) with anyone on the Internet. I have no issue with people who are p*ssed about SDSU, mad about a loss, angry about a player's performance, etc., ad nauseam. But the problem with trolls is that they feast on push back. And love causing a commotion and wreaking havoc. They aren't here for the opinions, discussions, facts, or information. They're just here for the sport of making everyone else miserable. And because of soft moderators like yourself, their mission is perpetually accomplished.
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Post by longtimebooster on Mar 13, 2017 12:33:30 GMT -8
Can anyone offer a one-sentence definition of a troll? Near as I can tell, the definition most people use is "a poster who disagrees with me." That seems to be true far too often. We got slammed for bringing down the ban hammer to quickly and too often in the past, now we're getting slammed for not bringing in down quicker and more often. Of course, just behaving like adults and tolerating other views and opinions (the ones that differ from your own) and ignoring posts you believe to be either trolling or just stupid would go a long way. As they say, "Don't feed the trolls," and they go away. Nonsense. That is not even close to what I've been saying on this board for months now. Please read my two posts on the matter. Further, as a board moderator, I'd be concerned that over 3/4 of the people on this board are highly concerned about the level of trolling going on here as depicted by this poll. This isn't a fluke or just a bunch of idiots mad about a difference of opinion.
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Post by missiontrails on Mar 13, 2017 12:33:42 GMT -8
See bold above. This is where the problem lies. You are making an assumption that is way off mark. The problem many are having is with the endless posting of the same message. Many of which are personal attacks on the players and/or coaching staff. Once these are repeated over and over, many posters are leaving this site and never coming back. You'll need to find the happy medium between free expression and losing all (most) of your readers/posters. It's your board, you run it as you wish, but I'm laying out the scenario for you. Good luck. See my last post above. Of course anybody can ignore posts. But once you've read them, it still lessens the actual value of this board for many of us, whether we respond or not. Which is why many solid contributors have left over the years and vow never to come back. If you think the number of valuable, or even readable, threads have increased on this board the last couple of years, you are sadly mistaken.
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Post by longtimebooster on Mar 13, 2017 12:38:53 GMT -8
Can anyone offer a one-sentence definition of a troll? Near as I can tell, the definition most people use is "a poster who disagrees with me." In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_trollThank you. Exactly.
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Post by missiontrails on Mar 13, 2017 12:42:13 GMT -8
See bold above. This is where the problem lies. You are making an assumption that is way off mark. The problem many are having is with the endless posting of the same message. Many of which are personal attacks on the players and/or coaching staff. Once these are repeated over and over, many posters are leaving this site and never coming back. You'll need to find the happy medium between free expression and losing all (most) of your readers/posters. It's your board, you run it as you wish, but I'm laying out the scenario for you. Good luck. See my last post above. And people aren't making personal attacks on the players and coaches, they are making professional attacks aimed at their job performances. When you take a position like coaching at a college or agree to take a scholarship (worth tens of thousands of dollars) to play for a college criticism comes with that territory. You and I must have different opinions on this, but I would consider something like calling Fisher 'too old to be capable of doing his job', or calling D'Erryl Williams 'a waste of a scholarship' as personal attacks.
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Post by missiontrails on Mar 13, 2017 12:47:40 GMT -8
Trolls are taking over this site. I see fewer fans posting and more trolls posting. I know real fans that find this site a waste of time. There is less and less sharing of information, but more and more posts that are opionion based rants. Let me explain something to the snowflake community. Just because more people are saying we suck does not mean everyone is a troll. The reason no one is talking about SDSU on any of the tournament shows today is because we sucked. You play NCAA basketball to win championships. We didn't do any of that this season. I'd say snowflakes are ruining this board and the program. You are content with showing up to games to watch a mediocre product. You prefer ticket prices remain low so you can continue to attend. Trolls as you call them prefer to be in the running to win championships each year. We want to be like the Arizona, Gonzaga, or Butlers of the world. I'd consider someone who lashes out at athletes on message boards just because they didn't win to their liking as much more of a "snowflake". Did Starbucks give you the wrong color coffee cup this morning?
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