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Post by RB Aztec on Aug 15, 2012 22:17:43 GMT -8
But, as far as facilities, the Big West is an arena league. It's not a gym league any more. Only four members have (what you could fairly consider to be) gyms. So, seven out of eleven have arenas. And then, there's the possibility that UCR will have an arena soon. If that happens, that would make eight out of eleven. Sorry for raining on your little smack parade. Please tell us who has an "arena". By arena, we mean permanent seats, where you can't push the bleachers back. Last year we looked at pictures of all the gyms. I am trying to remember if there were any arena's other than the new members. From what I remember the following were bleacher schools: Cal Poly Davis Riverside Northridge UCI UCSB Long Beach Fullerton Pacific (now leaving BW) All these schools had bleachers that could be moved out of the way in their gyms. Has something changed? Only the incoming schools of Hawaii, SDSU, and Boise had large Division I arenas with permanent seats. |
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Post by beefeater on Aug 15, 2012 23:19:31 GMT -8
But, as far as facilities, the Big West is an arena league. It's not a gym league any more. Only four members have (what you could fairly consider to be) gyms. So, seven out of eleven have arenas. And then, there's the possibility that UCR will have an arena soon. If that happens, that would make eight out of eleven. Sorry for raining on your little smack parade. Please tell us who has an "arena". By arena, we mean permanent seats, where you can't push the bleachers back. Last year we looked at pictures of all the gyms. I am trying to remember if there were any arena's other than the new members. From what I remember the following were bleacher schools: Cal Poly Davis Riverside Northridge UCI UCSB Long Beach Fullerton Pacific (now leaving BW) All these schools had bleachers that could be moved out of the way in their gyms. Has something changed? Only the incoming schools of Hawaii, SDSU, and Boise had large Division I arenas with permanent seats. Well, first of all that criteria isn't very useful because many arenas have seating that is moveable. I would bet that some of the seating at the Sherriff center, at Viejas, and at Taco Bell is moveable. A gym is easy to identify. You know when you see it. The Matadome (which is arguably the worst facility in the BWC) has permanent chairbacks they installed years ago, in an attempt to spruce up the place (so does Fullerton for that matter). It makes more sense to look at the overall of the design of the place and what it was purposed for. Was it designed to be a gym? i.e. a small venue for a DII basketball team to share with every other team on campus, plus used for student activities, classes, dancing, etc? Or was it designed to feature a DI program and host concerts and major events? From that standpoint, there are four gyms: Mott, Titan, Northridge (a.k.a. the Matadome), and the Student Recreation Center at UCR (which is, in fact, a student recreation center). All the others are arenas. Some have benches. For example, the Pyramid has a lot of benches in their upper seating. Some have small sections of bleachers. For example, the Bren has a small section that is used by the band in an arena that has nearly 5,000 seats. They aren't in the same class with Viejas, Taco Bell, or Sherriff. They are mid sized venues, but they are not gyms. They are arenas. |
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Post by beefeater on Aug 15, 2012 23:38:35 GMT -8
I wonder, if say, you were joining the WCC, would you be complaining this vociferously about Gerston Pavilion, McKeon Pavillion, Firestone Fieldhouse, and War Memorial Gymnasium? Those places are only slightly better than the worst BWC facilities and worse than average.
The fact is there are few really bad facilities in the BWC. We are talking about Titan Gym and the Matadome, which are basically the same thing except the Matadome shut down their upper deck after the Northridge earthquake and has since turned it into classrooms. And we are talking about the SRC, which is exactly what the name implies. Mott is a gym, too. I don't think it is as awful as the others, but, yeah, Cal Poly definitely could use an uprade.
I know it isn't as humorous to deal in facts. So, if you want to characterize the entire conference as having a certain level of facility that actually only applies to less than half the conference, don't let the facts stop you from making jokes.
To use an auto analogy, let's say that SDSU, Hawai'i, and BSU drive SUV's and they are joining a car club where half the club drive mid sized sedans and then there are three Ford Fiestas and a Civic. It's understandable that the three Fiestas draw a lot of guffaws, but when you start talking about the whole group like they all drive Fiestas, people are going to want set the record straight.
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Post by RB Aztec on Aug 16, 2012 4:30:18 GMT -8
All the current members in the BW have a gym. They move the bleachers aside and use the floor for classes and other purposes. When they move the bleachers, it looks just like a regular gym, with few if any permanent seats. That is why they are called a gym league. There are very few permanent hardback seats and their seating is smaller. It is not really worth having an argument about. It is just the way it is. Big arenas like Viejas or Hawaii were built as arenas with the vast majority of the seats as permanent.
BTW, I like UCSB's gym. When they pull the bleachers out, it is not a bad place to watch a game.
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Post by sdgaucho on Aug 16, 2012 7:27:59 GMT -8
I wonder, if say, you were joining the WCC, would you be complaining this vociferously about Gerston Pavilion, McKeon Pavillion, Firestone Fieldhouse, and War Memorial Gymnasium? Those places are only slightly better than the worst BWC facilities and worse than average. The fact is there are few really bad facilities in the BWC. We are talking about Titan Gym and the Matadome, which are basically the same thing except the Matadome shut down their upper deck after the Northridge earthquake and has since turned it into classrooms. And we are talking about the SRC, which is exactly what the name implies. Mott is a gym, too. I don't think it is as awful as the others, but, yeah, Cal Poly definitely could use an uprade. I know it isn't as humorous to deal in facts. So, if you want to characterize the entire conference as having a certain level of facility that actually only applies to less than half the conference, don't let the facts stop you from making jokes. To use an auto analogy, let's say that SDSU, Hawai'i, and BSU drive SUV's and they are joining a car club where half the club drive mid sized sedans and then there are three Ford Fiestas and a Civic. It's understandable that the three Fiestas draw a lot of guffaws, but when you start talking about the whole group like they all drive Fiestas, people are going to want set the record straight. It is what it is, if you are going to honestly compare viejas to the Thunderdome, pyramid, etc then you're clueless. I'm a gaucho, but I'm also a realist. I went to the sdsu vs ucsb last year and the feel of the thunderdome was that of a gym. The sound sucked, they had a dude twirling the spotlight during intros, crap scoreboard, and I was sitting on a moveable bench. To use beefeaters terminology, you've got some festivas, some altimas, and some escalades. In my mind the festiva and the altima are more closely related then the escalade. Unfortunately if you let clowns with festivas in your club you're going to get lumped together with them. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using proboards |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2012 9:28:17 GMT -8
I dunno. WCC gyms may be small too but watching WCC games on ESPN is to actually see a college experience. Those venues are generally packed with fans and there is excitement. The several BLC games I watched last year on whatever network were the exact opposite. Sparse attendance and very little enthusiasm, Long Beach and UCSB excepted. It will be interesting to see if the arrival of Hawaii and the imminent arrival of SDSU and Boise awakens a moribund BLC fan base this year or whether there really is no fan base to awaken.
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Post by RB Aztec on Aug 16, 2012 9:30:01 GMT -8
I wonder, if say, you were joining the WCC, would you be complaining this vociferously about Gerston Pavilion, McKeon Pavillion, Firestone Fieldhouse, and War Memorial Gymnasium? Those places are only slightly better than the worst BWC facilities and worse than average. The fact is there are few really bad facilities in the BWC. We are talking about Titan Gym and the Matadome, which are basically the same thing except the Matadome shut down their upper deck after the Northridge earthquake and has since turned it into classrooms. And we are talking about the SRC, which is exactly what the name implies. Mott is a gym, too. I don't think it is as awful as the others, but, yeah, Cal Poly definitely could use an uprade. I know it isn't as humorous to deal in facts. So, if you want to characterize the entire conference as having a certain level of facility that actually only applies to less than half the conference, don't let the facts stop you from making jokes. To use an auto analogy, let's say that SDSU, Hawai'i, and BSU drive SUV's and they are joining a car club where half the club drive mid sized sedans and then there are three Ford Fiestas and a Civic. It's understandable that the three Fiestas draw a lot of guffaws, but when you start talking about the whole group like they all drive Fiestas, people are going to want set the record straight. It is what it is, if you are going to honestly compare viejas to the Thunderdome, pyramid, etc then you're clueless. I'm a gaucho, but I'm also a realist. I went to the sdsu vs ucsb last year and the feel of the thunderdome was that of a gym. The sound sucked, they had a dude twirling the spotlight during intros, crap scoreboard, and I was sitting on a moveable bench. I agree. The Thunderdome is definitely a glorified gym. There is a huge difference walking into a major Division I arena, vs. a small "gym" venue like the Thunderdome. You feel like you are at a major national event in the big arenas. Smaller venues like the Thunderdome can be fun too, but could never be compared to Viejas, the Pit, etc. They don't generate the same crowd excitement. You can get some loud crowds, but it will never compete with the electricity of a big division I arena. The small BW venues are multipurpose gyms. It is what it is. With that being said, the Thunderdome is still one of my favorite roadtrips. It is a nice place to watch basketball, even if it is a big gym. Many of the BW gyms are so small time that I wonder why they are allowed to play Division I. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2012 9:45:08 GMT -8
The Thunderdome is completely fine in my book. It's of WCC quality in being small but nice. In contrast, what CSUN and UCR have are just awful. Equivalent to the average community college gym as I've said before. I've never been to Fullerton or Cal Poly but am disappointed to read they're almost as bad. And as I've said, UCI's doesn't look any better than the latter two on the tube.
Estimate of arena/gym quality for the nBLC:
Rank 1
SDSU
Hawaii
Boise
Rank 2
Long Beach
UCD
Rank 3
UCSB
Rank 4
UCI
Cal Poly
Just Plain Rank
Fullerton?
CSUN
UCR
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Post by beefeater on Aug 16, 2012 22:11:29 GMT -8
All the current members in the BW have a gym. They move the bleachers aside and use the floor for classes and other purposes. When they move the bleachers, it looks just like a regular gym, with few if any permanent seats. That is why they are called a gym league. There are very few permanent hardback seats and their seating is smaller. It is not really worth having an argument about. It is just the way it is. Big arenas like Viejas or Hawaii were built as arenas with the vast majority of the seats as permanent. BTW, I like UCSB's gym. When they pull the bleachers out, it is not a bad place to watch a game. "Big arenas like Viejas or Hawaii were built as arenas with the vast majority of the seats as permanent." You just described the Bren: built as an arena with the vast majority of seats as permanent. I've been to the Bren at least a hundred times. Have you been there once? I doubt it. But, that's OK, you obviously know more about it than I do, so whatever you say. Hard to argue with people when they don't know what they are talking about yet insist on believing their own b.s. |
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Post by beefeater on Aug 16, 2012 22:54:29 GMT -8
Here's a little slice of UCI basketball history, from a 2010 game broadcast by none other than SDSU's Michael Cage.
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Post by monty on Aug 16, 2012 23:03:09 GMT -8
are you guys the artichokes or banana slugs, I forget?
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Post by poly51 on Aug 17, 2012 10:10:41 GMT -8
Forbes Rankings of Best US Universities (Big West members only)
139. UC Santa Barbara
140. UC Irvine
156. UC Davis
162. Cal Poly
296. UC Riverside
355. San Diego State
362. CSU Long Beach
408. CSU Fullerton
435. Hawaii
457. CSU Northridge
616. Boise State
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Post by rockshow on Aug 17, 2012 10:51:30 GMT -8
Not that this is going to happen, but I wonder if on these boards and in the community, if Aztecs fans just unilaterally supported, endorsed, and voiced no concerns about our move to the Big West, and we almost just civilly, thoughtfully, and almost matter-of-factly showed confidence in our team no matter what conference they are going to be in.. and if that would help our recruiting.
We all know recruits and their parents read these boards and talk to Aztec fans they meet. How much they take these things into account? I don't know.
But I personally am extremely confident in our coaching staff to continue our exceptional performance on the court the next few years, as well as their ability to continue producing well-rounded student athletes in an amazing city at a top notch university, all in the best environment to play ball on the west coast.
The only thing we need is players, and I think its to our detriment not to display confidence in our ability to continue our success into whatever phase or transition our team goes through.
I know these boards are here for honest discourse and discussion, I'm just saying, if we really wanted whats best for the program, who knows, it might be best to not badmouth our future and continue expounding on percieved negative possibilities a potential recruit might experience if we go to the Big West.
I personally think SDSU is the best place a CA recruit can come to, we have everything you could want. But I don't get that vibe on these boards very often. Not saying we are doing anything wrong, just raising slight concerns and wondering what you all think.
I think public perception plays a huge role in a recruits mind, and any uncertainty that seeps in to a young person's mind is serious. I think this board has more influence than many might think. It's basically the one place Aztec fans can all come to talk about sports.
I purposefully didn't start a thread about this because I didn't really want to make a big fuss about it and go against my own point I'm trying to prove, I just wanted to give my 2 cents.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2012 11:10:31 GMT -8
The interesting thing about this thread is that this is what the other teams in the WAC said about us before we built Viejas. Sure we had games at the Sports Arena for big name schools like UNLV, but we played at Peterson Gym a lot of the time.
I see SDSU as modeling for the BW just what it takes to become a big time basketball school. First you build an arena, then hire a coach with a name coming fresh off a scandal looking for redemption, and then recruit. It will take most of the BW schools 10 years to catch up, if ever. I believe that there will be a western BE basketball division by then and we'll probably be gone.
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Post by titanczar on Aug 17, 2012 11:23:59 GMT -8
I dunno. WCC gyms may be small too but watching WCC games on ESPN is to actually see a college experience. Those venues are generally packed with fans and there is excitement. The several BLC games I watched last year on whatever network were the exact opposite. Sparse attendance and very little enthusiasm, Long Beach and UCSB excepted. It will be interesting to see if the arrival of Hawaii and the imminent arrival of SDSU and Boise awakens a moribund BLC fan base this year or whether there really is no fan base to awaken. WCC games on ESPN almost always involve Gonzaga, so no wonder they are always packed. Ever see a Portland vs LMU or Pepperdine vs Santa Clara game at Gersten or Firestone gyms? You're lucky to get 1,200 people. Yep, that's a great college experience. |
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Post by titanczar on Aug 17, 2012 11:25:47 GMT -8
The interesting thing about this thread is that this is what the other teams in the WAC said about us before we built Viejas. Sure we had games at the Sports Arena for big name schools like UNLV, but we played at Peterson Gym a lot of the time. I see SDSU as modeling for the BW just what it takes to become a big time basketball school. First you build an arena, then hire a coach with a name coming fresh off a scandal looking for redemption, and then recruit. It will take most of the BW schools 10 years to catch up, if ever. I believe that there will be a western BE basketball division by then and we'll probably be gone. Wrong, first you get presidents and AD's with a clue and a vision. If you don't have those two things in place, you're screwed. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2012 11:32:28 GMT -8
WCC games on ESPN almost always involve Gonzaga, so no wonder they are always packed. Ever see a Portland vs LMU or Pepperdine vs Santa Clara game at Gersten or Firestone gyms? You're lucky to get 1,200 people. Over the last few years, St. Mary's games televised on ESPN have always been a sell-out. A Portland game I watched last year was also a sell-out or close to it if it wasn't. Of course, IIRC they hosted Gonzaga. I'll agree that LMU and Pepperdine don't have close to that kind of atmosphere lately. Still, the few games I've seen were still better than the average BLC broadcast. BTW, I have no concerns about joking about our new conference home. It's pretty clear to me that if the bottom of that conference doesn't step it up considerably, we won't be around very long. We won't be around very long anyway if the BE decides to evolve its western division into all sports. |
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Post by titanczar on Aug 17, 2012 14:01:48 GMT -8
WCC games on ESPN almost always involve Gonzaga, so no wonder they are always packed. Ever see a Portland vs LMU or Pepperdine vs Santa Clara game at Gersten or Firestone gyms? You're lucky to get 1,200 people. Over the last few years, St. Mary's games televised on ESPN have always been a sell-out. A Portland game I watched last year was also a sell-out or close to it if it wasn't. Of course, IIRC they hosted Gonzaga. I'll agree that LMU and Pepperdine don't have close to that kind of atmosphere lately. Still, the few games I've seen were still better than the average BLC broadcast. BTW, I have no concerns about joking about our new conference home. It's pretty clear to me that if the bottom of that conference doesn't step it up considerably, we won't be around very long. We won't be around very long anyway if the BE decides to evolve its western division into all sports. You can joke all you want. But, it's not a good idea to bite the hand that feeds you and you don't know how long your hoops success will continue. If you go back to the pre-Fish days, your sold out arena is gone and your NCAA appearances are gone. |
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Post by azteccc on Aug 17, 2012 14:13:12 GMT -8
Not that this is going to happen, but I wonder if on these boards and in the community, if Aztecs fans just unilaterally supported, endorsed, and voiced no concerns about our move to the Big West, and we almost just civilly, thoughtfully, and almost matter-of-factly showed confidence in our team no matter what conference they are going to be in.. and if that would help our recruiting. We all know recruits and their parents read these boards and talk to Aztec fans they meet. How much they take these things into account? I don't know. But I personally am extremely confident in our coaching staff to continue our exceptional performance on the court the next few years, as well as their ability to continue producing well-rounded student athletes in an amazing city at a top notch university, all in the best environment to play ball on the west coast. The only thing we need is players, and I think its to our detriment not to display confidence in our ability to continue our success into whatever phase or transition our team goes through. I know these boards are here for honest discourse and discussion, I'm just saying, if we really wanted whats best for the program, who knows, it might be best to not badmouth our future and continue expounding on percieved negative possibilities a potential recruit might experience if we go to the Big West. I personally think SDSU is the best place a CA recruit can come to, we have everything you could want. But I don't get that vibe on these boards very often. Not saying we are doing anything wrong, just raising slight concerns and wondering what you all think. I think public perception plays a huge role in a recruits mind, and any uncertainty that seeps in to a young person's mind is serious. I think this board has more influence than many might think. It's basically the one place Aztec fans can all come to talk about sports. I purposefully didn't start a thread about this because I didn't really want to make a big fuss about it and go against my own point I'm trying to prove, I just wanted to give my 2 cents. well put. i also wonder, though, what would happen if everyone accepted that the BW move is not acceptable. if all fans put pressure on our administration to keep pursuing more acceptable options, they just may. i definitely agree with your sentiment, but 1. i dont think i would want a recruit that would base a decision off a few posts on an anonymous message board, and 2. i can just imagine german jews telling each other "just go with this guy, if we silence our own doubters he may leave us alone". number 2 was a bad reference, but i think it gets the point across. "shut up and maybe it will go away" to a certain extent. +10 for godwin's law. |
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Post by k5james on Aug 17, 2012 16:02:29 GMT -8
Not that this is going to happen, but I wonder if on these boards and in the community, if Aztecs fans just unilaterally supported, endorsed, and voiced no concerns about our move to the Big West, and we almost just civilly, thoughtfully, and almost matter-of-factly showed confidence in our team no matter what conference they are going to be in.. and if that would help our recruiting. We all know recruits and their parents read these boards and talk to Aztec fans they meet. How much they take these things into account? I don't know. But I personally am extremely confident in our coaching staff to continue our exceptional performance on the court the next few years, as well as their ability to continue producing well-rounded student athletes in an amazing city at a top notch university, all in the best environment to play ball on the west coast. The only thing we need is players, and I think its to our detriment not to display confidence in our ability to continue our success into whatever phase or transition our team goes through. I know these boards are here for honest discourse and discussion, I'm just saying, if we really wanted whats best for the program, who knows, it might be best to not badmouth our future and continue expounding on percieved negative possibilities a potential recruit might experience if we go to the Big West. I personally think SDSU is the best place a CA recruit can come to, we have everything you could want. But I don't get that vibe on these boards very often. Not saying we are doing anything wrong, just raising slight concerns and wondering what you all think. I think public perception plays a huge role in a recruits mind, and any uncertainty that seeps in to a young person's mind is serious. I think this board has more influence than many might think. It's basically the one place Aztec fans can all come to talk about sports. I purposefully didn't start a thread about this because I didn't really want to make a big fuss about it and go against my own point I'm trying to prove, I just wanted to give my 2 cents. well put. i also wonder, though, what would happen if everyone accepted that the BW move is not acceptable. if all fans put pressure on our administration to keep pursuing more acceptable options, they just may. i definitely agree with your sentiment, but 1. i dont think i would want a recruit that would base a decision off a few posts on an anonymous message board, and 2. i can just imagine german jews telling each other "just go with this guy, if we silence our own doubters he may leave us alone". number 2 was a bad reference, but i think it gets the point across. "shut up and maybe it will go away" to a certain extent. +10 for godwin's law. You've been asked many times. What other options are there? |
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