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Post by longtimesdsufan on Aug 14, 2012 6:28:28 GMT -8
You mention off the court...what do you know about these kids character off the court? If you're just going by media then you're totally misjudging these kids. Have you ever read about Leonard off the court problems? With Franklin we had the DUI and parties where there were problems with the law. As an "Analyst", you should be careful about your comparisons. When you see a data point, such as the DUI, you can not assume it is a single event. You should see it as multiple events, with one reported.
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Post by sdsustoner on Aug 14, 2012 14:30:44 GMT -8
You mention off the court...what do you know about these kids character off the court? If you're just going by media then you're totally misjudging these kids. Have you ever read about Leonard off the court problems? With Franklin we had the DUI and parties where there were problems with the law. As an "Analyst", you should be careful about your comparisons. When you see a data point, such as the DUI, you can not assume it is a single event. You should see it as multiple events, with one reported. You should also see it as a college kid doing something stupid. A ton of people have DUIs. By my estimate roughly 30-50% of the sales staff of 160 at my job have one. My best friend is an HR manager at my company. I imagine it's not too different every where else in Maricopa County, AZ.
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Post by sleeveless on Aug 14, 2012 14:34:26 GMT -8
I can see it now.....Jamaal having trouble making his teammates better by chasing individual stats and being the best 6th man in the country. This year will be completely different than last, we have too many stars to focus on one. This will be the best Team the Aztecs have seen in forever, with Taps leading the way. You wanna be a pro, you gotta act and play like a pro. Playground ball is best on concrete with chain nets..... Thiiiiiiiiiiiis guy.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 14:41:18 GMT -8
You mention off the court...what do you know about these kids character off the court? If you're just going by media then you're totally misjudging these kids. Have you ever read about Leonard off the court problems? With Franklin we had the DUI and parties where there were problems with the law. As an "Analyst", you should be careful about your comparisons. When you see a data point, such as the DUI, you can not assume it is a single event. You should see it as multiple events, with one reported. Do you really think Kawhi never went to a party in his time at State? That isn't meant to put down Kawhi, it's simply to say that going to parties isn't a bad thing. Something bad happened at one? Unless you have evidence that Jamaal was involved then you're just playing a horrible game of guilt by association. So now we're not supposed to speculate on Kawhi, but you can speculate on Jamaal having more than one incident of driving drunk? f x x x THIS $#!+. This is what drives me nuts with all this BBA talk. We get it, you hate the guy and his obsession with Jamaal. That does not make it ok to be overly critical of Jamaal and make unfounded declarations about his "character"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 15:34:39 GMT -8
Have you ever read about Leonard off the court problems? With Franklin we had the DUI and parties where there were problems with the law. As an "Analyst", you should be careful about your comparisons. When you see a data point, such as the DUI, you can not assume it is a single event. You should see it as multiple events, with one reported. Do you really think Kawhi never went to a party in his time at State? That isn't meant to put down Kawhi, it's simply to say that going to parties isn't a bad thing. Something bad happened at one? Unless you have evidence that Jamaal was involved then you're just playing a horrible game of guilt by association. So now we're not supposed to speculate on Kawhi, but you can speculate on Jamaal having more than one incident of driving drunk? f x x x THIS $#!+. This is what drives me nuts with all this BBA talk. We get it, you hate the guy and his obsession with Jamaal. That does not make it ok to be overly critical of Jamaal and make unfounded declarations about his "character" Thank god Jamaal was at the party in mention. He probably saved Jay Waddell's life by using his shirt as a Tourniquet to stop bleeding after Waddell was stabbed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 15:43:49 GMT -8
Do you really think Kawhi never went to a party in his time at State? That isn't meant to put down Kawhi, it's simply to say that going to parties isn't a bad thing. Something bad happened at one? Unless you have evidence that Jamaal was involved then you're just playing a horrible game of guilt by association. So now we're not supposed to speculate on Kawhi, but you can speculate on Jamaal having more than one incident of driving drunk? f x x x THIS $#!+. This is what drives me nuts with all this BBA talk. We get it, you hate the guy and his obsession with Jamaal. That does not make it ok to be overly critical of Jamaal and make unfounded declarations about his "character" Thank god Jamaal was at the party in mention. He probably saved Jay Waddell's life by using his shirt as a Tourniquet to stop bleeding after Waddell was stabbed. Absolutely, my first memory of that incident was that he helped, but I wasn't 100% positive on that.
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Post by badfish on Aug 14, 2012 16:27:26 GMT -8
How I feel about this whole thread:
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Post by sdsustoner on Aug 14, 2012 16:52:00 GMT -8
LMAO @ the relative moralizing done here.
College kids party. Young people, especially under the influence do stupid things. That says nothing about their character. Now, if he were the head of some drug operation on campus, that's a character issue. Making a mistake is not.
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Post by northcountymike on Aug 15, 2012 0:59:07 GMT -8
LMAO @ the relative moralizing done here. College kids party. Young people, especially under the influence do stupid things. That says nothing about their character. Now, if he were the head of some drug operation on campus, that's a character issue. Making a mistake is not. Stoner, I respectfully disagree. I'm getting tired of people making lame excuses for kids who knowingly make poor choices. These are not simple "mistakes." I'm not saying going to a party is bad, but getting a DUI is. Going to a party where there might be a little weed isn't necessarily bad, but getting busted with it alone in your car outside is. Being a student athlete, especially one on a team with a national presence, forces you to be a bit more careful with the choices you make. I also hate the excuse, "We were all kids once," or "we all make mistakes." BS. I've never had a DUI even though it seems to be the norm these days. Just because it happens all the time now doesn't make it right. I went to college and had plenty of fun and never once did anything that I regret personally or legally. It's not a self-righteous thing on my part either; I just wish our youth would take a little more responsibility and stop using excuses for their behavior, the same way the "older" generation allows and condones that type of behavior to continue. Making "mistakes" used to be sleeping in and missing your first period class...now it's getting a DUI and endangering lives. Hey, this thread kinda strayed away from Jamaal...that's gotta be a first. Was the thread hijacked? Awesome - I wonder how long it will last!
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Post by sdsustoner on Aug 15, 2012 10:37:45 GMT -8
LMAO @ the relative moralizing done here. College kids party. Young people, especially under the influence do stupid things. That says nothing about their character. Now, if he were the head of some drug operation on campus, that's a character issue. Making a mistake is not. Stoner, I respectfully disagree. I'm getting tired of people making lame excuses for kids who knowingly make poor choices. These are not simple "mistakes." I'm not saying going to a party is bad, but getting a DUI is. Going to a party where there might be a little weed isn't necessarily bad, but getting busted with it alone in your car outside is. Being a student athlete, especially one on a team with a national presence, forces you to be a bit more careful with the choices you make. I also hate the excuse, "We were all kids once," or "we all make mistakes." BS. I've never had a DUI even though it seems to be the norm these days. Just because it happens all the time now doesn't make it right. I went to college and had plenty of fun and never once did anything that I regret personally or legally. It's not a self-righteous thing on my part either; I just wish our youth would take a little more responsibility and stop using excuses for their behavior, the same way the "older" generation allows and condones that type of behavior to continue. Making "mistakes" used to be sleeping in and missing your first period class...now it's getting a DUI and endangering lives. Hey, this thread kinda strayed away from Jamaal...that's gotta be a first. Was the thread hijacked? Awesome - I wonder how long it will last! So long as we continue. lol I don't recall his BAC level at his arrest, but getting a DUI today is a lot different from even when I was in school when you actually had to be drunk. That BAC level is what some states have as an extreme or super extreme DUI. So in many cases like my own DUI, the driver doesn't even feel impaired. I had two beers with dinner. I've played basketball with more beer in me. So that's why I can call it a mistake. Not because I have a DUI. But, because I know that you do not have to feel impaired or even buzzed to get a DUI these days. The mistake is driving after even a single beer. I learned my less. One beer = call a cab. Since I'm calling a cab, I'll just get wasted. And so forth. :-) I'm not saying all stupid things kids do are simple mistakes. An extreme or super extreme DUI is criminal because you know you're at least buzzed. That can harm people. Hell...doing any crime that hurts others directly or indirectly is not a mistake. But a lack of character. Getting caught with a small amount of weed is a mistake. Nobody was harmed except the guy smoking it and his own image. He wasn't selling weed like many other SDSU students like I did as un undergrad. He wasn't driving in his car smoking weed. He was just getting high in the wrong place. I also agree with you regarding him being a more public figure and he should've known better. Again, to me that's being a kid making a stupid mistake. Now, if he does it again...we're talking something else.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2012 10:48:13 GMT -8
Stoner, I respectfully disagree. I'm getting tired of people making lame excuses for kids who knowingly make poor choices. These are not simple "mistakes." I'm not saying going to a party is bad, but getting a DUI is. Going to a party where there might be a little weed isn't necessarily bad, but getting busted with it alone in your car outside is. Being a student athlete, especially one on a team with a national presence, forces you to be a bit more careful with the choices you make. I also hate the excuse, "We were all kids once," or "we all make mistakes." BS. I've never had a DUI even though it seems to be the norm these days. Just because it happens all the time now doesn't make it right. I went to college and had plenty of fun and never once did anything that I regret personally or legally. It's not a self-righteous thing on my part either; I just wish our youth would take a little more responsibility and stop using excuses for their behavior, the same way the "older" generation allows and condones that type of behavior to continue. Making "mistakes" used to be sleeping in and missing your first period class...now it's getting a DUI and endangering lives. Hey, this thread kinda strayed away from Jamaal...that's gotta be a first. Was the thread hijacked? Awesome - I wonder how long it will last! So long as we continue. lol I don't recall his BAC level at his arrest, but getting a DUI today is a lot different from even when I was in school when you actually had to be drunk. That BAC level is what some states have as an extreme or super extreme DUI. So in many cases like my own DUI, the driver doesn't even feel impaired. I had two beers with dinner. I've played basketball with more beer in me. So that's why I can call it a mistake. Not because I have a DUI. But, because I know that you do not have to feel impaired or even buzzed to get a DUI these days. The mistake is driving after even a single beer. I learned my less. One beer = call a cab. Since I'm calling a cab, I'll just get wasted. And so forth. :-) I'm not saying all stupid things kids do are simple mistakes. An extreme or super extreme DUI is criminal because you know you're at least buzzed. That can harm people. Hell...doing any crime that hurts others directly or indirectly is not a mistake. But a lack of character. Getting caught with a small amount of weed is a mistake. Nobody was harmed except the guy smoking it and his own image. He wasn't selling weed like many other SDSU students like I did as un undergrad. He wasn't driving in his car smoking weed. He was just getting high in the wrong place. I also agree with you regarding him being a more public figure and he should've known better. Again, to me that's being a kid making a stupid mistake. Now, if he does it again...we're talking something else. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Jamaal was under .08 but because of his age it was still considered a DUI.
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Post by longtimesdsufan on Aug 15, 2012 11:12:15 GMT -8
Have you ever read about Leonard off the court problems? With Franklin we had the DUI and parties where there were problems with the law. As an "Analyst", you should be careful about your comparisons. When you see a data point, such as the DUI, you can not assume it is a single event. You should see it as multiple events, with one reported. You should also see it as a college kid doing something stupid. A ton of people have DUIs. By my estimate roughly 30-50% of the sales staff of 160 at my job have one. My best friend is an HR manager at my company. I imagine it's not too different every where else in Maricopa County, AZ. Wow! I am not saying that Franklin is a bad person, I am saying that his reputation is not a clean as Leonard. Yes, , a college kid not being careful (won't say stupid), but I see it on the court. It is a level of maturity to which I am alluding.
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Post by iambballanalyst on Aug 15, 2012 17:11:22 GMT -8
You should also see it as a college kid doing something stupid. A ton of people have DUIs. By my estimate roughly 30-50% of the sales staff of 160 at my job have one. My best friend is an HR manager at my company. I imagine it's not too different every where else in Maricopa County, AZ. Wow! I am not saying that Franklin is a bad person, I am saying that his reputation is not a clean as Leonard. Yes, , a college kid not being careful (won't say stupid), but I see it on the court. It is a level of maturity to which I am alluding. Lets look at a few of the all time greats and see what the lowest points of their "reputation" is: Michael Jordan: Cheating, gambling, divorce Kobe: Cheating, rape trial, Magic Johnson: Cheated so much he caught aids Lets look at some recent College guys who people respect: Klay Thompson: busted smoking weed Mario Chalmers: caught smoking weed at the NBA rookie event You can go on and on digging up guys who have made mistakes. Kawhi has a Grant Hill-like reputation, but that's only because he hasn;t been caught doing anything that would be frowned upon. I guarantee you he's made a few mistakes in his life time. Mentioning that a kid doesn't have a perfect reputation is a waste of time.
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Post by sdsustoner on Aug 15, 2012 17:34:16 GMT -8
This isn't basketball, but Davonn Bess, a Miami Dolphin WR was arrested the summer before his frosh year at Oregon State for being in possession of stolen items. He was stripped of his schollie and did jail time. A total lack of character, right?
Wrong. He was mum about it in court, protecting friends who sold him out. The truth was he picked up friends not knowing what they had on them. That came out years later after the statute of limitations ran out on his former friends.
He was discovered in a prison passing league by June Jones and he became Hawai'i's best WR of all-time. As a rookie for the Fins, he was on the phone being interviewed by a local radio station while driving. Bess in the middle of the interview stopped it, because he saw people in danger in a burning car on the side of the road. He saved them. That shows character.
So don't judge a kid by a stupid choice they made. Judge him by what he does afterwards.
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Post by iambballanalyst on Aug 15, 2012 17:45:58 GMT -8
This isn't basketball, but Davonn Bess, a Miami Dolphin WR was arrested the summer before his frosh year at Oregon State for being in possession of stolen items. He was stripped of his schollie and did jail time. A total lack of character, right? Wrong. He was mum about it in court, protecting friends who sold him out. The truth was he picked up friends not knowing what they had on them. That came out years later after the statute of limitations ran out on his former friends. He was discovered in a prison passing league by June Jones and he became Hawai'i's best WR of all-time. As a rookie for the Fins, he was on the phone being interviewed by a local radio station while driving. Bess in the middle of the interview stopped it, because he saw people in danger in a burning car on the side of the road. He saved them. That shows character. So don't judge a kid by a stupid choice they made. Judge him by what he does afterwards. Thank you. For years Kobe Bryant has a squeeky clean image...then he had the rape case out of nowhere. It's a waste of judgement to judge the character people you don't personally know 1st hand.
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Post by danloc09 on Aug 15, 2012 18:06:13 GMT -8
Oh God this is going to a bad place.
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Post by iambballanalyst on Aug 15, 2012 18:09:05 GMT -8
Adam must has the worst reputation ever...he took a bite of the foridden fruit! But then again, it was his rib used to create woman... So how would you judge his character?? lol
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Post by The Oracle on Aug 15, 2012 20:22:25 GMT -8
Malum prohibitum vs. malum in se
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Post by jcljorgenson on Aug 15, 2012 20:27:35 GMT -8
I got bored reading this debate and decided I would just count how many posts came from BBA in just this one thread, he is currently up to 46.
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Post by northcountymike on Aug 15, 2012 20:30:01 GMT -8
Wow! I am not saying that Franklin is a bad person, I am saying that his reputation is not a clean as Leonard. Yes, , a college kid not being careful (won't say stupid), but I see it on the court. It is a level of maturity to which I am alluding. Lets look at a few of the all time greats and see what the lowest points of their "reputation" is: Michael Jordan: Cheating, gambling, divorce Kobe: Cheating, rape trial, Magic Johnson: Cheated so much he caught aids Lets look at some recent College guys who people respect: Klay Thompson: busted smoking weed Mario Chalmers: caught smoking weed at the NBA rookie event You can go on and on digging up guys who have made mistakes. Kawhi has a Grant Hill-like reputation, but that's only because he hasn;t been caught doing anything that would be frowned upon. I guarantee you he's made a few mistakes in his life time. Mentioning that a kid doesn't have a perfect reputation is a waste of time. I've never said that just because Kawhi's never been caught doesn't mean he hasn't done anything stupid. Also, I guess we have different opinions of what "mistakes" are. All of the players you mentioned didn't make mistakes in my opinion, they just proved their ignorance and stupidity. Their ignorance and stupidity hurt not only them, but their friends, family, and their teams. Maybe it simply comes down to core values and beliefs but I think we need to stop setting standards for young people so low. It's become laughable. Some kid does something stupid and we say "oh well, we all make mistakes." No, no we don't; not like that. Not even once. Stoner: I appreciate your sentiment and proving that you grew up. I don't condone your past behavior but I respect a guy that can clean up his act and grow up, you know? (i.e., calling a cab, knowing when you've had enough, etc.).
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