|
|
Post by monty on Jul 7, 2010 15:26:56 GMT -8
So i had to look up who Vic Tanny was - WOW - because dude is fat you don't like him and don't think he can coach? I'll go ahead and post what I told a couple of A-talkers in person a year or so ago: I think there's a bit of merit to this. NOT that he "can't coach," but this guy is supposed to be a disciplinarian. If he doesn't model the proper behaviors, he might have less credibility in the eyes of his players. Also, the guy has been saying over and over---and I quote---that we are "woefully weak." He's been here for more than a year and our guys are still woefully weak? In other words, I'm not buying the tough talk until I see bigger, stronger, tougher play on the field. The Vic Tanny reference is funny, by the way. See the original Nutty Professor with Jerry Lewis and you'll see what I mean. I always took the woefully weak to be in relation to last years team (there seemed to also be a big part of mental toughness and charachter in there too), and, also, you can get stronger and tougher and more mentally prepared, but if there are character issues (and the quitting we've seen this program do tells me there still are some around) and when other programs have been working their ass off all 4/5 years and are getting guys that worked hard in high school, you don't just catch up. Hoke is hefty, but I wouldn't say he's like a big fat ass or anything anyways. Outside of the historical undertones, is there much of a difference with saying he's fat, he'll have credibility issues with saying he's black...? |
|
|
|
Post by k5james on Jul 7, 2010 15:31:12 GMT -8
Yeah, because Gary Patterson is the picture of health....  or Kyle Whittingham  or June Jones  etc, etc...  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 15:32:37 GMT -8
So i had to look up who Vic Tanny was - WOW - because dude is fat you don't like him and don't think he can coach? That is easily the silliest thing I have ever read on this board, and there have been a lot I didn't have to look up Vic Tanny because I'm pretty old myself. However, I did have to ponder a minute to recall who he was. (I just remembered the name from MAD magazine when I used to read it as a kid since there was a running joke about celebrities who could have used a membership to Vic Tanny.) Since Retired holds a grudge against Hoke just because of his physique, he must have really loved Ken Delgado, huh? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2010 15:37:35 GMT -8
So i had to look up who Vic Tanny was - WOW - because dude is fat you don't like him and don't think he can coach? I'll go ahead and post what I told a couple of A-talkers in person a year or so ago: I think there's a bit of merit to this. NOT that he "can't coach," but this guy is supposed to be a disciplinarian. If he doesn't model the proper behaviors, he might have less credibility in the eyes of his players. The other side of that coin would be that a fit coach would be seen by his players as a disciplinarian. You know, like Chuck Long. (Sorry, John, I know you hate emoticons, but this one deserves a  .) |
|
|
|
Post by steveaztec on Jul 7, 2010 15:48:45 GMT -8
So i had to look up who Vic Tanny was - WOW - because dude is fat you don't like him and don't think he can coach? That is easily the silliest thing I have ever read on this board, and there have been a lot I didn't have to look up Vic Tanny because I'm pretty old myself. However, I did have to ponder a minute to recall who he was. (I just remembered the name from MAD magazine when I used to read it as a kid since there was a running joke about celebrities who could have used a membership to Vic Tanny.) Since Retired holds a grudge against Hoke just because of his physique, he must have really loved Ken Delgado, huh? I remember when Delgado was a hot topic on the board about his weight. |
|
|
|
Post by monty on Jul 7, 2010 15:54:11 GMT -8
I always took the woefully weak to be in relation to last years team Seems like he said it for the umpteenth time about a month ago at one of the Claim Jumper things. Here's the quote including the title from the UT article: Hoke recalls 'woefully weak' team
Coach gets candid with SDSU boosters
By Brent Schrotenboer, UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 12:02 a.m.
ENCINITAS — San Diego State head football coach Brady Hoke said the Aztecs “were a woefully weak football team” when he was hired in December 2008.www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/12/hoke-recalls-weak-team-aztecs/Past tense abounds. And, I think he is clearly doing a little of CYA here and pointing out that there is a lot that needed to be done and it also serves to market his position that this is what he will be doing. |
|
|
|
Post by monty on Jul 7, 2010 16:06:41 GMT -8
And, I think he is clearly doing a little of CYA here and pointing out that there is a lot that needed to be done and it also serves to market his position that this is what he will be doing. Well I like that far less than his weight or his quote. This guy needs to establish that he is POSITIVE that we'll be winners, that he too can do what lots of coaches have done in a relatively short time. He needs to believe deep down that he is a better coach than, say, June Jones. Frankly, he has to do a little selling/marketing to boosters and the media in the modern world of college sports. And I think an honest assessment (which this emphatically is) is better than coming out and saying we're ready to win championships when the team clearly was not. Blind positive feelings don't help much, seeing the problem might at least if you are able to work on them (and that will be his test: has the team improved in strength, conditioning, effort and heart) good things will come. At the end of the day, we've seen him for 12 games and he took over a morbidly ban team, this year will tell us a lot more. |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 7, 2010 17:56:27 GMT -8
Well I like that far less than his weight or his quote. This guy needs to establish that he is POSITIVE that we'll be winners, that he too can do what lots of coaches have done in a relatively short time. He needs to believe deep down that he is a better coach than, say, June Jones. Frankly, he has to do a little selling/marketing to boosters and the media in the modern world of college sports. And I think an honest assessment (which this emphatically is) is better than coming out and saying we're ready to win championships when the team clearly was not. Blind positive feelings don't help much, seeing the problem might at least if you are able to work on them (and that will be his test: has the team improved in strength, conditioning, effort and heart) good things will come. At the end of the day, we've seen him for 12 games and he took over a morbidly ban team, this year will tell us a lot more. Um, not it won't. He took over a program with players who were soft because Long didn't require them to be tough. You state the opinion that it was a morbidly bad team, but then state that this year will tell us a lot more? Sorry, but we need to see his recruits in action before we'll know what he can do. =Bob |
|
|
|
Post by aztecfred on Jul 7, 2010 18:45:03 GMT -8
Again, you dodge the question. OK, LAST TIME on this thread, (but I couldn't help looking one more time, mybad). I would have thought you would have picked up on my (and mine alone), hangup with Hoke. The first time I saw him I thought maybe I should get him a membership to Vic Tanny's as a welcome to San Diego. When it comes to certain jobs I believe it's about ability and image. If the image is lacking then you better have one hell of an ability. We'll see about this one. I REALLY don't want to get back on this thread, but as I explained my hangup, are you now prepared to answer my question? Vic Tanny's? I wonder how many of us remember that? How long you been retired? |
|
|
|
Post by aztech on Jul 7, 2010 22:58:35 GMT -8
Vic Tanny's? I wonder how many of us remember that? How long you been retired? LOL ;D ;D |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 8:50:42 GMT -8
He took over a program with players who were soft because Long didn't require them to be tough. You state the opinion that it was a morbidly bad team, but then state that this year will tell us a lot more? Sorry, but we need to see his recruits in action before we'll know what he can do. Hoke also inherited some Craft players. And as far as discipline goes, I'll never forget how after his third season, Craft decided that practices should be held first thing in the morning commencing with fall camp. Everybody was to be on the field prepared to go at precisely 7:00 IIRC. Unnamed players groused to the media about it and I was curious to see what Craft's reaction would be. Well, Mike Sullivan of the NCTimes told me that although he wasn't exactly pleased with having to be there that early himself, he was there before 7:00 to watch more than a dozen players straggle in long after that. But from what everyone could tell, Craft did absolutely nothing about it and for the rest of camp there was never a day when the offense wasn't repeated. As to Hoke, just like Craft and Chuck and anybody else who would coach the team, I'm willing to give him at least until midway through his third year before I start becoming too critical. I just think it's unrealistic to expect Rome to be built in less time than that, what with the need to change the culture of what has been a mess of a program for oh so many years. However, I think by midway through anybody's third year it's pretty apparent how well they're going to do. I mean, Craft's 6-game losing streak his third year spoke volumes to me and in Chuck's case, Cal Poly II and then SJSU II (two blowouts to a school Craft beat by 31 his final year) made it crystal clear he needed to go too. (70-7? That was only icing on the turd cake.) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 8:57:49 GMT -8
Didn't Long's players learn anything from those Camp Pendleton Marines?  |
|
|
|
Post by steveaztec on Jul 8, 2010 9:24:40 GMT -8
He took over a program with players who were soft because Long didn't require them to be tough. You state the opinion that it was a morbidly bad team, but then state that this year will tell us a lot more? Sorry, but we need to see his recruits in action before we'll know what he can do. Hoke also inherited some Craft players. And as far as discipline goes, I'll never forget how after his third season, Craft decided that practices should be held first thing in the morning commencing with fall camp. Everybody was to be on the field prepared to go at precisely 7:00 IIRC. Unnamed players groused to the media about it and I was curious to see what Craft's reaction would be. Well, Mike Sullivan of the NCTimes told me that although he wasn't exactly pleased with having to be there that early himself, he was there before 7:00 to watch more than a dozen players straggle in long after that. But from what everyone could tell, Craft did absolutely nothing about it and for the rest of camp there was never a day when the offense wasn't repeated. As to Hoke, just like Craft and Chuck and anybody else who would coach the team, I'm willing to give him at least until midway through his third year before I start becoming too critical. I just think it's unrealistic to expect Rome to be built in less time than that, what with the need to change the culture of what has been a mess of a program for oh so many years. However, I think by midway through anybody's third year it's pretty apparent how well they're going to do. I mean, Craft's 6-game losing streak his third year spoke volumes to me and in Chuck's case, Cal Poly II and then SJSU II (two blowouts to a school Craft beat by 31 his final year) made it crystal clear he needed to go too. (70-7? That was only icing on the turd cake.) SleepingGiantFan said... As to Hoke, just like Craft and Chuck and anybody else who would coach the team, I'm willing to give him at least until midway through his third year before I start becoming too critical. I just think it's unrealistic to expect Rome to be built in less time than that, what with the need to change the culture of what has been a mess of a program for oh so many years. ____________________________________________________ And here is where we differ (and apparently I differ than most on this board)....Your above comment is sooo true, EXCEPT....it is unrealistic to expect Rome to be built in less than "4" years in the mess we are in. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 9:31:12 GMT -8
And I'll agree with both of you. I think 4 years is a fair measuring stick, UNLESS its more than apparent that things are NOT going to improve in that 4th year, and in fact, appear to be going the other going the other way. Then you make a move. We (SDSU) did. And here is where we differ (and apparently I differ than most on this board)....Your above comment is sooo true, EXCEPT....it is unrealistic to expect Rome to be built in less than "4" years in the mess we are in. |
|
|
|
Post by steveaztec on Jul 8, 2010 9:35:33 GMT -8
And I'll agree with both of you. I think 4 years is a fair measuring stick, UNLESS its more than apparent that things are NOT going to improve in that 4th year, and in fact, appear to be going the other going the other way. Then you make a move. We (SDSU) did. And here is where we differ (and apparently I differ than most on this board)....Your above comment is sooo true, EXCEPT....it is unrealistic to expect Rome to be built in less than "4" years in the mess we are in. And I would agree with you.....except... You have to look at all the factors, and the incredible amount of injuries in key positions that year were a major factor. That is why we should have evaluated after year 4. For instance.....If Hoke went 5-7 this year and next year ALL 22 starters got injured and he went 2-9. Do you fire him? Or give him a 4th year with a healthy team to see where the program really is? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 9:39:18 GMT -8
I won't play the injury card. Yes, there a bunch of injuries, but it went deeper than that. And I would agree with you.....except... You have to look at all the factors, and the incredible amount of injuries in key positions that year were a major factor. |
|
|
|
Post by steveaztec on Jul 8, 2010 9:42:37 GMT -8
I won't play the injury card. Yes, there a bunch of injuries, but it went deeper than that. And I would agree with you.....except... You have to look at all the factors, and the incredible amount of injuries in key positions that year were a major factor. If you don't acknowledge the extraordinary amount of injuries that year, then you aren't being truthful about your evaluation. They were a MAJOR factor, not just a little one. |
|
|
|
Post by johneaztec on Jul 8, 2010 9:54:31 GMT -8
He took over a program with players who were soft because Long didn't require them to be tough. You state the opinion that it was a morbidly bad team, but then state that this year will tell us a lot more? Sorry, but we need to see his recruits in action before we'll know what he can do. Hoke also inherited some Craft players. And as far as discipline goes, I'll never forget how after his third season, Craft decided that practices should be held first thing in the morning commencing with fall camp. Everybody was to be on the field prepared to go at precisely 7:00 IIRC. Unnamed players groused to the media about it and I was curious to see what Craft's reaction would be. Well, Mike Sullivan of the NCTimes told me that although he wasn't exactly pleased with having to be there that early himself, he was there before 7:00 to watch more than a dozen players straggle in long after that. But from what everyone could tell, Craft did absolutely nothing about it and for the rest of camp there was never a day when the offense wasn't repeated. As to Hoke, just like Craft and Chuck and anybody else who would coach the team, I'm willing to give him at least until midway through his third year before I start becoming too critical. I just think it's unrealistic to expect Rome to be built in less time than that, what with the need to change the culture of what has been a mess of a program for oh so many years. However, I think by midway through anybody's third year it's pretty apparent how well they're going to do. I mean, Craft's 6-game losing streak his third year spoke volumes to me and in Chuck's case, Cal Poly II and then SJSU II (two blowouts to a school Craft beat by 31 his final year) made it crystal clear he needed to go too. (70-7? That was only icing on the turd cake.) I don't like quotes like that coming from people who don't know the facts. "But from what everyone COULD TELL, Craft did absolutely NOTHING about it." Things were done to those who were late, like extra work and such. I remember talking to Craft about just those things. Don't ass u me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 10:08:27 GMT -8
I couldn't be more truthful, and I'll leave it at that. If you don't acknowledge the extraordinary amount of injuries that year, then you aren't being truthful about your evaluation. They were a MAJOR factor, not just a little one. |
|
|
|
Post by steveaztec on Jul 8, 2010 10:10:23 GMT -8
I couldn't be more truthful, and I'll leave it at that. If you don't acknowledge the extraordinary amount of injuries that year, then you aren't being truthful about your evaluation. They were a MAJOR factor, not just a little one. With all due respect Andre......You aren't if you are evaluating somebody and don't factor in an abnormal amount of injuries. Especially with a young team and no depth. |
|
.)
