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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 2, 2010 15:05:30 GMT -8
I don't want to get into the Craft vs. Long BS but I've always been curious why Craft wasn't more successful. I've come to the conclusion that Craft had very low self esteem and didn't like moving from his comfort level, which was JC football. Tom Craft was a very successful JC head coach. He was hired as a Div I OC at SDSU and was very successful. He then quit and went back to JC. Why? He was a hot commodity and could have moved as a OC to a bigger program. He was then approached to become our head coach. He turned it down to stay at the JC. We basically begged him to sign on. Reluctantly, he did. He won some games, was competitive in others with a crappy budget and no administration support. He was then fired and went back to a JC. Anyone seeing a pattern? It is too bad because he could have been the next Norm Chow if he wanted to. I don't know. I've always had the feeling he saw the writing on the wall when it came to QB and bailed as OC when he saw it. Tollner's downfall was really a product of him not being able to bring in a quality QB to take over for Blanton and I'm not all that sure that it wasn't at least partially Craft's fault even though he was only here for 2 years. Of course, it wasn't all his fault, given how Tollner was punked by Akili Smith. Either way, I think one was as bad as the other - Craft could coach but couldn't recruit and Long could recruit but couldn't coach. =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 2, 2010 15:22:04 GMT -8
I suspect that Craft getting fully vested in the Calicornia State Employees Retirement System has as much to do with it as anything.
Long could not carry Crafts water as far as coaching is concerned. Craft had (has) some personal problems if you believe all that you have heard. We will never know for sure, so just let it go away as a couple failed experiments.
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Post by monty on Jul 2, 2010 15:54:20 GMT -8
I suspect that Craft getting fully vested in the Calicornia State Employees Retirement System has as much to do with it as anything. Long could not carry Crafts water as far as coaching is concerned. Craft had (has) some personal problems if you believe all that you have heard. We will never know for sure, so just let it go away as a couple failed experiments. It is a great fall back to have, but if he say signed a 5 3hundred k contract as a coordinator, wouldn't that surpass getting fully vested? I agree with one of the above that it seems Craft never really wanted the limelight - he seems to like coaching juco and/or coaching in socal and doesn't have the desire to do all that is required of the 'big time' |
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Post by goaztecs on Jul 2, 2010 16:28:38 GMT -8
Ted Tollner was better than both of them. Tollner really tanked his last two years but up to then their was at least hope. He did have two good years in 95-96. Tollner did bring in some of the programs best players like Morrison. |
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Post by goaztecs on Jul 2, 2010 16:30:17 GMT -8
My sentiments, exactly. Make it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems to me that's a very simple thing to do - the subject header is quite clear so just don't read it. =Bob Exactly, if you don't like it then ignore the thread. Its off season so there is not a lot to talk about. This is a chat room after all so stop bitching. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 2, 2010 16:37:16 GMT -8
I suspect that Craft getting fully vested in the Calicornia State Employees Retirement System has as much to do with it as anything. Long could not carry Crafts water as far as coaching is concerned. Craft had (has) some personal problems if you believe all that you have heard. We will never know for sure, so just let it go away as a couple failed experiments. It is a great fall back to have, but if he say signed a 5 3hundred k contract as a coordinator, wouldn't that surpass getting fully vested? Pooh is just once again attempting to interject politics into an athletic discussion. You have to forgive him because he gets loaded on margaritas every day at the 19th hole. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 2, 2010 16:39:45 GMT -8
Seems to me that's a very simple thing to do - the subject header is quite clear so just don't read it. =Bob Exactly, if you don't like it then ignore the thread. Its off season so there is not a lot to talk about. This is a chat room after all so stop bitching. Unfortunately there are some people on here who love to see their posts totals and will offer "ditto" and "f x x x off" simply to pad them. The thread header was quite clear so it seems to me anyone who bitches in the thread is just padding their post tallies. =Bob |
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Post by ron on Jul 2, 2010 17:27:43 GMT -8
Neither. Yeah, I'm gonna go with that as my answer.
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Post by lowranchero on Jul 2, 2010 17:29:18 GMT -8
damn it. i was hoping they were part of the undercard for UFC199.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 2, 2010 17:50:40 GMT -8
For the love of freaking Montezuma... why oh why do we have to continue talking about these two people!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Inquiring minds want to know the answer to just that question, Hoobs! ;D But I would like to add a thought or two. Tom Craft is a California guy all the way. As such, and as someone else pointed out, he doubtless lacks the connections that Chuck Long has. Also, by staying at a CA JC, he remains active in the retirement system. After his bumpy ride at SDSU, he may well prefer security to a shot in the dark. Finally, perhaps he would be of interest at the DI level, but his age may be working against him by this time. And that means in his own mind as well as in the minds of DI ADs. He might get an offer to be someone's OC (New Mexico State, UTEP, Utah State, Idaho, SJSU? ? ?), but why would be want to take the chance that he might have to start all over again at age 60 plus? Finally, someone would have to do a lot of fancy talking to convince me that Long is more skilled as a coach than Tom Craft. AzWm |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 2, 2010 18:04:05 GMT -8
I would be happy to euthanize this thread if the demand for that is overwhelming. One certainly can sympathize with those fans who are more than tired of the topic.
AzWm (WLR)
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Post by Azthetic on Jul 2, 2010 18:44:09 GMT -8
Asking to choose is like when they ask you if you want paper or plastic at the grocery check out.
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 2, 2010 19:03:27 GMT -8
I suspect that Craft getting fully vested in the Calicornia State Employees Retirement System has as much to do with it as anything. Long could not carry Crafts water as far as coaching is concerned. Craft had (has) some personal problems if you believe all that you have heard. We will never know for sure, so just let it go away as a couple failed experiments. Your pension angle has merit. I believe it is a defined benefit plan so the benefit really grows with years of service. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 2, 2010 19:05:05 GMT -8
I would be happy to euthanize this thread if the demand for that is overwhelming. One certainly can sympathize with those fans who are more than tired of the topic. AzWm (WLR) No way, William. The topic clear. Those who don't like it should move on. Those that want to chew this rag should be able to do so. |
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Post by goaztecs on Jul 2, 2010 19:58:09 GMT -8
For the love of freaking Montezuma... why oh why do we have to continue talking about these two people!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Inquiring minds want to know the answer to just that question, Hoobs! ;D But I would like to add a thought or two. Tom Craft is a California guy all the way. As such, and as someone else pointed out, he doubtless lacks the connections that Chuck Long has. Also, by staying at a CA JC, he remains active in the retirement system. After his bumpy ride at SDSU, he may well prefer security to a shot in the dark. Finally, perhaps he would be of interest at the DI level, but his age may be working against him by this time. And that means in his own mind as well as in the minds of DI ADs. He might get an offer to be someone's OC (New Mexico State, UTEP, Utah State, Idaho, SJSU? ? ?), but why would be want to take the chance that he might have to start all over again at age 60 plus? Finally, someone would have to do a lot of fancy talking to convince me that Long is more skilled as a coach than Tom Craft. AzWm Good point. I have to agree with you. I actually think Craft was a much better coach. Long was a complete disaster. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jul 2, 2010 22:40:55 GMT -8
I, too, am wondering if we really need to rehash this yet again. I think we've all said what we have to say about these two in comparison to each other, and there isn't much to be gained by going over it yet again.
I'm this close to just closing this thread to head off any potential off topic personal stuff - and this thread has already gotten a little more personal than it should have.
If you guys can keep it to Chuck and Tom and keep it reasonably civil and substantive then I think we can let the thread live. If not... Dr. Kevorkian may be called upon to practice medicine on this topic (Chuck VS Tom).
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 3, 2010 0:14:05 GMT -8
Why don't the people that don't like Craft/Long threads simply ignore them? How hard can that be?
Locking this thread down seems heavy handed to me.
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Post by monty on Jul 3, 2010 4:58:47 GMT -8
Why don't the people that don't like Craft/Long threads simply ignore them? How hard can that be? Locking this thread down seems heavy handed to me. Agree - there was no subterfuge here, the thread wasn't entitled cute puppies, flowers, and the lovers that love them: everyone should know that it might get a little hot and heavy in the pit, so if you want to avoid the fray, hang out in one of the other dozen or so active threads. They are both relevant to the SDSU program (hell, I think Craft recruited our center). |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Jul 3, 2010 7:32:33 GMT -8
Why don't the people that don't like Craft/Long threads simply ignore them? How hard can that be? Locking this thread down seems heavy handed to me. Agree - there was no subterfuge here, the thread wasn't entitled cute puppies, flowers, and the lovers that love them: everyone should know that it might get a little hot and heavy in the pit, so if you want to avoid the fray, hang out in one of the other dozen or so active threads. They are both relevant to the SDSU program (hell, I think Craft recruited our center). No one's saying that Craft and Long aren't valid subjects - but a thread entitled, "Craft vs Long," is the kind of thing that starts stuff that carries over to other threads. It's happened on the last two boards (where far too many threads were hijacked by two or three people arguing amongst themselves and hurling insults back and forth), and we just don't want that kind of B.S. here. So I'm saying just keep it on topic and keep the personal insults out of it. That's all. If everyone can do that then the thread will stay open. |
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Post by steveaztec on Jul 3, 2010 8:31:10 GMT -8
Why Chuck Long has a job and Tom Craft doesn't is pretty obvious to me.
Chuck Long has much better credentials and has been a OC at one of the most powerful and successfull football schools in college history. That is why he got the Kansas job.
I'm not sure why Tom Craft isn't a OC at D1 level yet. I think more by choice than anything.
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