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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 5, 2011 11:28:17 GMT -8
I'm just curious, are you looking for a specific answer, Steve? Is that why you're pinning to the top? No, with the Brady Hoke/firing at Michigan a hot topic, it will bring many lurking Aztec fans to this board. I am informing them (the new lurkers) as to what is going on with this Zuma issue.
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Post by aztecron on Jan 5, 2011 11:31:04 GMT -8
I'm just curious, are you looking for a specific answer, Steve? Is that why you're pinning to the top? No, with the Brady Hoke/firing at Michigan a hot topic, it will bring many lurking Aztec fans to this board. I am informing them as to what is going on. Cool.
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 5, 2011 15:36:50 GMT -8
TTT
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 5, 2011 15:56:03 GMT -8
Hey Steve...You might ask Rulon (or Erik) to change the thread title. Yes, I agree JYP. Rulon is a little hard to get ahold of these days, so I just put in a request with William to change the title a little.
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 5, 2011 19:49:24 GMT -8
TTT
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 6, 2011 8:21:23 GMT -8
I hear a mascot meeting has been scheduled soon by the administration to talk about this issue.
Funny, none were scheduled before this thread.
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Post by JOCAZTEC on Jan 6, 2011 9:11:15 GMT -8
SILENCE!
Careful.
...the ss is watching you!
HAM
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 6, 2011 10:02:44 GMT -8
SILENCE! Careful. ...the ss is watching you! HAM Yes, I hear the SS is not saying very nice things about the Aztec Warrior Foundation members right now.
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Post by 1611Luginbill on Jan 6, 2011 10:14:09 GMT -8
I don't really have a dog in this fight but.....
Do we think we could refrain from using the term "the SS"?
I know there may be some folks in the SDSU athletic department that need to do their job better but employing the term applied to one of the most despicable paramilitary police forces in the history of mankind to refer to SDSU staff is at best, only slightly humorous, and at worst, insensitive, disrespectful and anti-semitic.
The folks who support the AW are in the position of strength. Don't delegitimize that by going there.
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 6, 2011 10:22:17 GMT -8
I don't really have a dog in this fight but..... Do we think we could refrain from using the term "the SS"? I know there may be some folks in the SDSU athletic department that need to do their job better but employing the term applied to one of the most despicable paramilitary police forces in the history of mankind to refer to SDSU staff is at best, only slightly humorous, and at worst, insensitive, disrespectful and anti-semitic. The folks who support the AW are in the position of strength. Don't delegitimize that by going there. 1611Aztectalk.com Now he is making up rules. Don't tell me what to post and not to post please. Worry about yourself.
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Post by 1611Luginbill on Jan 6, 2011 10:27:45 GMT -8
1611Aztectalk.com Now he is making up rules. Don't tell me what to post and not to post please. Worry about yourself. It was just a suggestion. You said it yourself yesterday. A lot of new folks might be visiting the board for the first time. They may not get the inside joke. I'm certain that nobody is using the name in a pejorative manner but somebody new might make a mistake and think you are. It is not a term to be thrown around lightly IMO. It was just a suggestion.
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 6, 2011 10:40:03 GMT -8
1611Aztectalk.com Now he is making up rules. Don't tell me what to post and not to post please. Worry about yourself. It was just a suggestion. You said it yourself yesterday. A lot of new folks might be visiting the board for the first time. They may not get the inside joke. I'm certain that nobody is using the name in a pejorative manner but somebody new might make a mistake and think you are. It is not a term to be thrown around lightly IMO. It was just a suggestion. Here is my suggestion. Let the MOD make the rules.
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 6, 2011 20:36:36 GMT -8
Do Not Forget This Issue!!!
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 7, 2011 8:05:51 GMT -8
I have stayed quiet on this Zuma issue but Steve Anderson is my friend so perhaps it is time for me to join the fray and give you my opinion. Here is some history for you to consider. These are facts, not hear say. In 2001, when the two student groups MEChA and NASA complained about the use of a human depiction as a mascot, Dr. Weber commissioned the preparation of a White Paper on the issue. www.themwc.com/genrel/050301aaa.htmlAfter the White Paper was issued, Dr. Weber then commissioned a vote of the student body. No one has ever been able to explain why he went to the effort and expense of holding this plebiscite because immediately thereafter he overturned the referendum and announced that Monty Montezuma would be banned. He then commissioned the creation of the Ambassador. Large sums of money were spent on this creation. As we all remember, that went over like a lead balloon and the Ambassador lasted less than one year. The uniform was retired and the student that portrayed the regal Montezuma was hired by the Alumni Association to make up for him losing his job as the Ambassador. Then a new mascot committee was formed in 2002 and they held a public forum where they requested input and suggestions. At that forum one of the eventual members of the Aztec Warrior Foundation spoke and presented the following image and suggested that only the name Montezuma be removed and instead, the school should just call the SDSU mascot the Aztec Warrior. www.mexicanceramic.com/folk/caballero.htmDoes this look familiar to anyone? I thought so. Anyway, on that committee was a member of the athletic department, Steve Schnall. He proposed a stuffed animal character, either a jaguar or an eagle, as those were two ranks of warriors within Aztec culture. The committee was unable to come to a final recommendation, but leaks from committee members let it be known that an animal was likely to become the new mascot. Upon hearing these rumors, a small group of people met and came up with the idea of creating a non-profit foundation to try and raise money to save Monty. They applied for charitable, tax-exempt status with the IRS and that was granted in July 2002. The Aztec Warrior Foundation hired Carlos Gutierrez and paid for the creation of a new uniform. We made a point of NOT using the name Monty or Montezuma, and tried to conform to the requirements set forth in that initial White Paper. We launched a pre-emptive strike against the creation of an animal mascot by presenting our own, un-official Aztec Warrior mascot. Once Carlos appeared at that first football game in the new uniform, there was no way that the University could adopt an animal mascot. A two-year struggle began. Everyone but a small handful of administration personnel supported our struggle. The most adamant opponent of our efforts was Mr. Steve Schnall. He gave the orders that Carlos was never to be shown on the big screen at Qualcomm and he had his security goon (Spiller) harass our group at every turn. We persevered. Finally, after several meetings behind the scenes with Dr. Weber, the Aztec Warrior Foundation agreed to support the creation of a new mascot. The design was by the University’s art department. Thus was born the “Bird-Head” uniform. For those of you who do not remember, check out page 4 of the Spring 2004 issue of 360 Magazine (link follows): advancement.sdsu.edu/marcomm/360/images/360sp04.pdfThis image was put to a second vote, this time allowing input from both student and Alumni Association Members. It was overwhelmingly approved. Our group did not particularly like it, but agreed that a Warrior of any kind was better than nothing. Carlos was hired for a two-year stint as part of our contract with the University. Also a part of the agreement between the AWF and SDSU was the creation of the Aztec Warrior committee of the SDSU Alumni Association. We were given four seats on this committee, athletics received three seats and alumni received three seats. Steve Schall represented the athletic department and was one of their three members. The committee was charged with hiring the Aztec Warrior, paying for the uniform AND the salary of the warrior with no financial support from athletics or the university. Budgetary constraints always were the stated reasons for not supporting the warrior financially. It even took three years of begging to get Steve Schnall to put a “check-the-box” donation request on football ticket renewals. During the first two years, much of the money to finance the mascot came from personal donations from former AWF board members. Later, the committee members found memorabilia items and held silent auctions at the Monty’s awards ceremonies, the proceeds of which continued to fund the Warrior. SDSU never had a budget item for the mascot during this time. They still do not. There was never any money for it. The Alumni Association had to pony up the funds. The SDSU AA Warrior committee modified the original uniform and it evolved to the one we have today. We used as our support and inspiration the historical figure of an Aztec Eagle Warrior discovered at the Templo Mayor in Mexico City. www.flickr.com/photos/ilhuicamina/2159366077/At one of the Alumni Association Warrior board meetings during the first couple of years, Steve Schnall presented an idea for a stuffed animal “supplemental” character mascot. It was voted down by the committee. Frankly, most of us just didn’t trust him and we still don’t. Fast forward to 2010. Brian Sipe volunteered to work on bringing some fresh ideas for reestablishing a game day experience for Aztec football. He presented those ideas to the committee. His ideas were great! However, re-introduced at the same time and made to look like a Brian Sipe idea was Zuma. But Zuma was NOT Brian Sipe's idea. However, the committee could not say “no” to Brian Sipe and so, without any public comment or hearing, Zuma was thrust onto the stage. Money was conveniently found to pay for it and its uniform. SDSU is spending real money on Zuma. They cut professors and academics and athletics (mostly women's) and then cry poverty, but Zuma IS funded. Yet, SDSU has never spent any money on the Aztec Warrior. He was always paid for with private funds or Alumni Association funding. If you don’t believe me, ask Jim Herrick, executive director of the SDSU Alumni Association. He will confirm that Mike (the current Aztec Warrior) and all previous warriors has/have been a budget item of the Alumni Association. NOT Athletics, and NOT academics! Alumni!!! But Zuma is paid for by University funds. Seems to me that kind of makes Zuma the official SDSU mascot.Out of respect for those involved, I will not name the persons who participated in the conversation (they can step forward if they like) but a member of the AWF was told by an ex officio member of the Alumni Warrior Board committee and a university administration official that we had been duped by the Zuma proponents. Steve Schnall is only an assistant athletic director BUT apparently the sole decider of who or what will be SDSU’s mascot. Who gave him this authority? I don’t know, but it appears that many are too apathetic to care. Remember, one of the primary arguments against keeping Monty Montezuma was that using the name “Monty” was disrespectful to the historical personage known as Montezuma II. That argument was echoed in the original White Paper and again in the negotiations we had for a new mascot to be called simply the “Aztec Warrior” and then again in the press releases issued by the University. YET, “Zuma” is not disrespectful? How can the University talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time? They have no problem with a furry stuffed animal prancing around and using a nickname for Montezuma but heaven forbid we call our warrior “Monty”. SO… Is Steve Anderson paranoid? You make up your own mind. But I personally think not, and I will not be surprised if the Aztec Warrior quietly disappears. Rulon Jenson Former Director, Aztec Warrior Foundation Rulon, I appreciate this post very much. I know how hard you worked on this issue with the Aztec Warrior Foundation. To be stabbed in the back by our own University (actually a couple of people in the right positions on this issue) is disgraceful. Our fan base is so lax and so skepitical on issues like this. At the same time, as a fan base we need to step up and get involved in issues like this. This is OUR tradition. The two SDSU admins who are playing games with OUR traditions DID NOT EVEN ATTEND SAN DIEGO STATE. We need to wake up as a fan base and fight for our traditions. As students, we all come and go. For our teams, the players come and go. Over time our teams have periods that they win and then periods that they lose. When we look back...OUR traditions are what really links us all together and those decades together. Stand up and fight for our traditions...GET RID OF ZUMA NOW!!!!
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Post by SDAztec on Jan 7, 2011 15:45:09 GMT -8
A little reminder of the Time Effort and Energy the AWF sacrificed just to get the warrior that is in place today... I think Steve and the others have every right to raise hell about that Stupid Cat! LINKIt was too long to put up on youtube, but this was just a few minutes of tape the AWF pieced together. The is a couple of hours more video clips.
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Post by Spud on Jan 7, 2011 16:48:44 GMT -8
I don't really have a dog in this fight but..... Do we think we could refrain from using the term "the SS"? I know there may be some folks in the SDSU athletic department that need to do their job better but employing the term applied to one of the most despicable paramilitary police forces in the history of mankind to refer to SDSU staff is at best, only slightly humorous, and at worst, insensitive, disrespectful and anti-semitic. The folks who support the AW are in the position of strength. Don't delegitimize that by going there. 1611Aztectalk.com Now he is making up rules. Don't tell me what to post and not to post please. Worry about yourself. Nice. I guess it's ok for you to use "SS", an offensive term to people and tell people to worry about themselves and not tell you how to post, but didn't you blow a gasket on the MWC board because someone posted something that you found offensive and you called for banning, etc? Just sayin'...instead of blowing a gasket, how about taking a second to think about things...would it really be hard to not refer to the admins as "SS"?
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 7, 2011 16:51:40 GMT -8
Fantastic SD.
Those were some very long work days.
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Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 7, 2011 16:58:34 GMT -8
1611Aztectalk.com Now he is making up rules. Don't tell me what to post and not to post please. Worry about yourself. Nice. I guess it's ok for you to use "SS", an offensive term to people and tell people to worry about themselves and not tell you how to post, but didn't you blow a gasket on the MWC board because someone posted something that you found offensive and you called for banning, etc? Just sayin'...instead of blowing a gasket, how about taking a second to think about things...would it really be hard to not refer to the admins as "SS"? Interesting you bring that up Spud. The MWC board was about a certain few making fun of my brother in law, shortly after he committed suicide. Are you going on record as saying that making fun of someone who just lost a family member to suicide is OK? Do you support what happened on that board? #1...It is quite obvious that when I used ss (and I wasn't the one that brought it up by the way), that I am using it in a joking way. #2...There was a poster on the MWC playing a video (over and over for a couple of months) of a man committing suicide after I posted. Hardly funny, and obviously not intended to be funny. You don't see the difference in the two? And #3...Nice of you to wait about 4 months for your one chance to challenge me on something like that. You are a real man Spud.
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Post by Spud on Jan 7, 2011 17:08:27 GMT -8
Nice. I guess it's ok for you to use "SS", an offensive term to people and tell people to worry about themselves and not tell you how to post, but didn't you blow a gasket on the MWC board because someone posted something that you found offensive and you called for banning, etc? Just sayin'...instead of blowing a gasket, how about taking a second to think about things...would it really be hard to not refer to the admins as "SS"? Interesting you bring that up Spud. The MWC board was about a certain few making fun of my brother in law, shortly after he committed suicide. Are you going on record as saying that making fun of someone who just lost a family member to suicide is OK? Do you support what happened on that board? #1...It is quite obvious that when I used ss (and I wasn't the one that brought it up by the way), that I am using it in a joking way. #2...There was a poster on the MWC playing a video (over and over for a couple of months) of a man committing suicide after I posted. Hardly funny, and obviously not intended to be funny. You don't see the difference in the two? And #3...Nice of you to wait about 4 months for your one chance to challenge me on something like that. You are a real man Spud. Oh brother...Perspective Steve. All I was suggesting is that instead of dismissing a very politely put request, you just give it two seconds of thought. That's all. Yeah, maybe to you there are big differences in the two...but maybe to someone else, there aren't. I'm not going to argue that because it's not germain to my original post. Again, it's all about perspective. Contrary to what you make think, I don't lurk in the corner and wait to "challenge" you. I wrote my emails to the admins because I support your concern for the Aztec Warrior. Maybe we should hug it out?
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jan 7, 2011 17:39:32 GMT -8
Rulon and Steve, we're not idiots. We appreciate you guys pointing out the dangers and if what you're worried about occurs, we will act in an appropriate manner. But we don't need you guys to constantly put this in our face as if you're assuming we don't care.
Believe it or not, we are quite willing to believe you are not crying wolf, but hammering us with it over and over is not the best course of action.
=Bob
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