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Gore.
Jun 17, 2022 22:29:13 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 17, 2022 22:29:13 GMT -8
No, he saved that for his next outing. But, but, it was Coors Field. Yeah, ok. Freeland didn't have as much of a problem over 7 innings, or the relievers. Love Gore, but the fact is he has stunk it up over his last two outings. He needs to get back on track, and I'm sure he will. Heck, I compared him to Kershaw. We'll see.
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Gore.
Jun 17, 2022 23:18:15 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 17, 2022 23:18:15 GMT -8
Excuses for who you like. He was all over the place. Horrible ball placement, if we're being honest. Freeland didn't have as much of a problem, even after 7 innings, or the relievers. Just say he's sucked his last two outings. You'll come across as a little more sincere. Having said that, he needs to correct that, and get his release point back. I sincerely don't care, if that hasn't been made clear. They showed the graphic of rookie pitchers making their first start ever at Coors Field since 2021: 6.43 ERA, 1.70 WHIP, OPS of .916. Seems relevant, doesn't it? Him struggling there is predictable, coming off his last outing, in conjunction with the fact that rookie debutants universally struggle there. "Excuses for who I like"....lol. Development of pitching is a non-linear process. He was overpeforming his expected numbers (by a wide margin) and is now coming back to where the expected numbers and the actual numbers align. Magic. You really don't understand how comparisons work, it seems. Freeland has pitched in Coors Field his entire career, it was Gore's first time. His location was inconsistent, Freeland's wasn't great either, but he was bailed out by ridiculously good defense behind him, with a number of diving plays and hard-hit outs recorded. Just like in the other thread, an inability to grasp context is damning. Maybe...just maybe...he was really a 3.00 ERA all along, not a guy who is going to hold an ERA of under 1.50? There's a reason why I'm not on here commenting in the moment every time something awful happens with young players - You lose objectivity in the midst of emotions and the truth is that sometimes baseball is hard and you're not going to achieve the desired results every time out. But you're right, I'm just making excuses for a 23-year-old. Clearly.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 8:37:24 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 18, 2022 8:37:24 GMT -8
Excuses for who you like. He was all over the place. Horrible ball placement, if we're being honest. Freeland didn't have as much of a problem, even after 7 innings, or the relievers. Just say he's sucked his last two outings. You'll come across as a little more sincere. Having said that, he needs to correct that, and get his release point back. I sincerely don't care, if that hasn't been made clear. They showed the graphic of rookie pitchers making their first start ever at Coors Field since 2021: 6.43 ERA, 1.70 WHIP, OPS of .916. Seems relevant, doesn't it? Him struggling there is predictable, coming off his last outing, in conjunction with the fact that rookie debutants universally struggle there. "Excuses for who I like"....lol. Development of pitching is a non-linear process. He was overpeforming his expected numbers (by a wide margin) and is now coming back to where the expected numbers and the actual numbers align. Magic. You really don't understand how comparisons work, it seems. Freeland has pitched in Coors Field his entire career, it was Gore's first time. His location was inconsistent, Freeland's wasn't great either, but he was bailed out by ridiculously good defense behind him, with a number of diving plays and hard-hit outs recorded. Just like in the other thread, an inability to grasp context is damning. Maybe...just maybe...he was really a 3.00 ERA all along, not a guy who is going to hold an ERA of under 1.50? There's a reason why I'm not on here commenting in the moment every time something awful happens with young players - You lose objectivity in the midst of emotions and the truth is that sometimes baseball is hard and you're not going to achieve the desired results every time out. But you're right, I'm just making excuses for a 23-year-old. Clearly. Uh huh. He's been piss poor his last two outings. This last outing was a carry over from his previous one, unfortunately. This is just another example of you making excuses for a player that you really like. I thought EVERYBODY was available for criticism?? Oh yeah, that's right, he's 23. Ok. A bad outing's, a bad outing. Bad location, is bad location, period. And, Freeland only 1 batter in 7 innings. So, his location was MUCH better than Gore's, all things considered. I absolutely think that Gore will be just fine, but his location was horrendous,whether or not it was at Coors Field , or Petco Park. He also walked 3 in four innings. Not good. I've compared him to be potentially another Kershaw, so that's how I feel about him, but he needs to get his release point back, and spot the ball better.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 10:01:17 GMT -8
Post by aardvark on Jun 18, 2022 10:01:17 GMT -8
I sincerely don't care, if that hasn't been made clear. They showed the graphic of rookie pitchers making their first start ever at Coors Field since 2021: 6.43 ERA, 1.70 WHIP, OPS of .916. Seems relevant, doesn't it? Him struggling there is predictable, coming off his last outing, in conjunction with the fact that rookie debutants universally struggle there. "Excuses for who I like"....lol. Development of pitching is a non-linear process. He was overpeforming his expected numbers (by a wide margin) and is now coming back to where the expected numbers and the actual numbers align. Magic. You really don't understand how comparisons work, it seems. Freeland has pitched in Coors Field his entire career, it was Gore's first time. His location was inconsistent, Freeland's wasn't great either, but he was bailed out by ridiculously good defense behind him, with a number of diving plays and hard-hit outs recorded. Just like in the other thread, an inability to grasp context is damning. Maybe...just maybe...he was really a 3.00 ERA all along, not a guy who is going to hold an ERA of under 1.50? There's a reason why I'm not on here commenting in the moment every time something awful happens with young players - You lose objectivity in the midst of emotions and the truth is that sometimes baseball is hard and you're not going to achieve the desired results every time out. But you're right, I'm just making excuses for a 23-year-old. Clearly. Uh huh. He's been piss poor his last two outings. This last outing was a carry over from his previous one, unfortunately. This is just another example of you making excuses for a player that you really like. I thought EVERYBODY was available for criticism?? Oh yeah, that's right, he's 23. Ok. A bad outing's, a bad outing. Bad location, is bad location, period. I absolutely think that Gore will be just fine, but his location was horrendous,whether or not it was at Coors Field , or Petco Park. He also walked 3 in four innings. Not good. I've compared him to be potentially another Kershaw, so that's how I feel about him, but he needs to get his release point back, and spot the ball better. The Coors Field outing had the chance to be just what it was. I'm more concerned about his next start, which should be in Petco. If that one is bad, then it's time for a bit of concern.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 10:13:14 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 18, 2022 10:13:14 GMT -8
Uh huh. He's been piss poor his last two outings. This last outing was a carry over from his previous one, unfortunately. This is just another example of you making excuses for a player that you really like. I thought EVERYBODY was available for criticism?? Oh yeah, that's right, he's 23. Ok. A bad outing's, a bad outing. Bad location, is bad location, period. I absolutely think that Gore will be just fine, but his location was horrendous,whether or not it was at Coors Field , or Petco Park. He also walked 3 in four innings. Not good. I've compared him to be potentially another Kershaw, so that's how I feel about him, but he needs to get his release point back, and spot the ball better. The Coors Field outing had the chance to be just what it was. I'm more concerned about his next start, which should be in Petco. If that one is bad, then it's time for a bit of concern. I agree about the next start being more concerning, but you have to remember that his previous outing at Coor's Field was not good as well. I don't blame his last outing completely on Coor's field. He walked 3 in 4 innings and his pitches were consistently in bad locations, the field doesn't contribute to that. The field can contribute to more damage being done at the plate, yes, but you still have to square the ball up to hit it hard, and he left many pitches in an area to be squared up. Hoping he can find his rhythm and location again, real soon.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 10:34:58 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 18, 2022 10:34:58 GMT -8
I sincerely don't care, if that hasn't been made clear. They showed the graphic of rookie pitchers making their first start ever at Coors Field since 2021: 6.43 ERA, 1.70 WHIP, OPS of .916. Seems relevant, doesn't it? Him struggling there is predictable, coming off his last outing, in conjunction with the fact that rookie debutants universally struggle there. "Excuses for who I like"....lol. Development of pitching is a non-linear process. He was overpeforming his expected numbers (by a wide margin) and is now coming back to where the expected numbers and the actual numbers align. Magic. You really don't understand how comparisons work, it seems. Freeland has pitched in Coors Field his entire career, it was Gore's first time. His location was inconsistent, Freeland's wasn't great either, but he was bailed out by ridiculously good defense behind him, with a number of diving plays and hard-hit outs recorded. Just like in the other thread, an inability to grasp context is damning. Maybe...just maybe...he was really a 3.00 ERA all along, not a guy who is going to hold an ERA of under 1.50? There's a reason why I'm not on here commenting in the moment every time something awful happens with young players - You lose objectivity in the midst of emotions and the truth is that sometimes baseball is hard and you're not going to achieve the desired results every time out. But you're right, I'm just making excuses for a 23-year-old. Clearly. Uh huh. He's been piss poor his last two outings. Yes, you clearly are making excuses for his bad outing by simply saying, "Welcome to Coor's Field." This last outing was a carry over from his previous one, unfortunately. This is just another example of you making excuses for a player that you really like. I thought EVERYBODY was available for criticism?? Oh yeah, that's right, he's 23. Ok. A bad outing's, a bad outing. Bad location, is bad location, period. And, Freeland only 1 batter in 7 innings. So, his location was MUCH better than Gore's, all things considered. I absolutely think that Gore will be just fine, but his location was horrendous,whether or not it was at Coors Field , or Petco Park. He also walked 3 in four innings. Not good. I've compared him to be potentially another Kershaw, so that's how I feel about him, but he needs to get his release point back, and spot the ball better.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 12:35:07 GMT -8
Post by aardvark on Jun 18, 2022 12:35:07 GMT -8
The Coors Field outing had the chance to be just what it was. I'm more concerned about his next start, which should be in Petco. If that one is bad, then it's time for a bit of concern. I agree about the next start being more concerning, but you have to remember that his previous outing to Coor's Field not good as well. I don't blame his last outing completely on Coor's field. He walked 3 in 4 innings and his pitches were consistently in bad locations, the field doesn't contribute to that. The field can contribute to more damage being done at the plate, yes, but you still have to square the ball up to hit it hard, and he left many pitches in an area to be squared up. Hoping he can find his rhythm and location again, real soon. Well aware of the start before Coors Field. I was there for it.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 12:39:20 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 18, 2022 12:39:20 GMT -8
I agree about the next start being more concerning, but you have to remember that his previous outing to Coor's Field not good as well. I don't blame his last outing completely on Coor's field. He walked 3 in 4 innings and his pitches were consistently in bad locations, the field doesn't contribute to that. The field can contribute to more damage being done at the plate, yes, but you still have to square the ball up to hit it hard, and he left many pitches in an area to be squared up. Hoping he can find his rhythm and location again, real soon. Well aware of the start before Coors Field. I was there for it. Bummer you had to see that performance in person, although I say he bounces back quickly. He's too good not to.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 13:30:18 GMT -8
Post by junior on Jun 18, 2022 13:30:18 GMT -8
Well aware of the start before Coors Field. I was there for it. Bummer you had to see that performance in person, although I say he bounces back quickly. He's too good not to. Let's hope any "re-adustments" he made last night for Coors Field - timing, location, release points, etc. don't follow him back to Petco and screw up his next start. It feels like he's getting quite a bit of instruction and input. Maybe too much. I kind of thought what happened here the previous week might've played with his head. And then having to make adjustments for Coors just compounded the variability on the adjustments he probably thought he needed to make for the previous game here in San Diego. The past two starts look quite a bit like he's lost his way - like before he went to time away in Arizona last year. Walks, bad pitches, up and the velocity was down somewhat. But let's see what he's got next time. I sure hope it's an improvement or he's probably not going to be seeing many more regular starts for the time being.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 13:52:31 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jun 18, 2022 13:52:31 GMT -8
Bummer you had to see that performance in person, although I say he bounces back quickly. He's too good not to. Let's hope any "re-adustments" he made last night for Coors Field - timing, location, release points, etc. don't follow him back to Petco and screw up his next start. It feels like he's getting quite a bit of instruction and input. Maybe too much. I kind of thought what happened here the previous week might've played with his head. And then having to make adjustments for Coors just compounded the variability on the adjustments he probably thought he needed to make for the previous game here in San Diego. The past two starts look quite a bit like he's lost his way - like before he went to time away in Arizona last year. Walks, bad pitches, up and the velocity was down somewhat. But let's see what he's got next time. I sure hope it's an improvement or he's probably not going to be seeing many more regular starts for the time being. Yeah, that's what I'm saying as well. I'm hoping it's just temporary and he doesn't revert back to last year's struggles. He had been lights out before these last two outings.
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Gore.
Jun 18, 2022 18:29:08 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Jun 18, 2022 18:29:08 GMT -8
Uh huh. He's been piss poor his last two outings. This last outing was a carry over from his previous one, unfortunately. This is just another example of you making excuses for a player that you really like. I thought EVERYBODY was available for criticism?? Oh yeah, that's right, he's 23. Ok. A bad outing's, a bad outing. Bad location, is bad location, period. I absolutely think that Gore will be just fine, but his location was horrendous,whether or not it was at Coors Field , or Petco Park. He also walked 3 in four innings. Not good. I've compared him to be potentially another Kershaw, so that's how I feel about him, but he needs to get his release point back, and spot the ball better. The Coors Field outing had the chance to be just what it was. I'm more concerned about his next start, which should be in Petco. If that one is bad, then it's time for a bit of concern. Sure. He's clearly going through the command pitfalls that belie a rookie pitcher.
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Post by junior on Jun 24, 2022 20:56:30 GMT -8
Gore still had trouble with control tonight - 4BB, and only about half of his pitchers were thrown for strikes. Missed a quality start by an inning - just too many pitches early on. But he pitched himself out of trouble a few times, bounced back, and that's growth.
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Post by aardvark on Jun 24, 2022 21:22:29 GMT -8
Gore still had trouble with control tonight - 4BB, and only about half of his pitchers were thrown for strikes. Missed a quality start by an inning - just too many pitches early on. But he pitched himself out of trouble a few times, bounced back, and that's growth. According to the postgame show, they made an in-game adjustment (a suggestion, really, regarding his breaking ball), and they said it straightened Gore out. But to me, he just didn't look comfortable pitching from the stretch tonight. But he bobbed and weaved, and got through 5.
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Post by junior on Jul 10, 2022 16:04:08 GMT -8
Gore with another subpar start. Way subpar. Velocity's down, and not enough movement on his fastball to fool even the poor hitting Gigantes. They were sitting on his FB.
Whether he needs a break or something else, it's clear - 3 of his last 5 games (two in a row against a really sad-sack Colorado Rockies team, and today's game against a similarly offensively challenged Giants team) were poorly pitched - that something's just not right. Whether it's mechanical or just "growing pains' or more likely a combination of things, he didn't look great at all today. At least he hasn't lost control of his pitching - but his B&B just isn't working.
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Post by azson on Jul 11, 2022 8:34:12 GMT -8
Joe's MLB ranks: 2nd in wins, 3rd in ERA, and #1 in quality stats (which is huge considering our shaky pen). Not to mention he just flirted with another no-no. If we're in a 1-game playoff, I'm sending that "mid-rotation" guy out to start over a rookie. I love me some McKKKK, and I usually agree with you on all things Padres, but I'm thinking you're a little drunk on the metrics in this case. The surface stats reveal the same thing. Pitcher wins aren't something I really care about (see deGrom, Jacob) and almost no-hitters are nice, but there is so much variance and randomness associated with one game that it really doesn't mean a ton. That's why his FIP and ERA differ so dramatically. Strikeouts > groundouts. Not a knock on Joe, but Gore has been more dominant. You still taking Gore over the mid-rotation guy?
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Gore.
Jul 11, 2022 8:46:10 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 11, 2022 8:46:10 GMT -8
The surface stats reveal the same thing. Pitcher wins aren't something I really care about (see deGrom, Jacob) and almost no-hitters are nice, but there is so much variance and randomness associated with one game that it really doesn't mean a ton. That's why his FIP and ERA differ so dramatically. Strikeouts > groundouts. Not a knock on Joe, but Gore has been more dominant. You still taking Gore over the mid-rotation guy? Long-term? Yes. Nothing has changed.
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Post by sdsuball on Jul 11, 2022 19:41:52 GMT -8
Gore with another subpar start. Way subpar. Velocity's down, and not enough movement on his fastball to fool even the poor hitting Gigantes. They were sitting on his FB. Whether he needs a break or something else, it's clear - 3 of his last 5 games (two in a row against a really sad-sack Colorado Rockies team, and today's game against a similarly offensively challenged Giants team) were poorly pitched - that something's just not right. Whether it's mechanical or just "growing pains' or more likely a combination of things, he didn't look great at all today. At least he hasn't lost control of his pitching - but his B&B just isn't working. Yeah you have to wonder if pitching this many innings is starting to wear on his arm. He's not a dominant pitcher with a 93 mph fastball. Might be an idea to skip his spot in the rotation once or twice, and have him throw a few bullpens to let his arm recharge.
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Gore.
Jul 11, 2022 20:58:39 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 11, 2022 20:58:39 GMT -8
You still taking Gore over the mid-rotation guy? Long-term? Yes. Nothing has changed. You were taking Gore over Musgrove THIS year. Still doing that? Or, are you backtracking now, and saying you meant long term? You said he was more dominant this year.
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Gore.
Jul 12, 2022 8:58:20 GMT -8
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 12, 2022 8:58:20 GMT -8
Long-term? Yes. Nothing has changed. You were taking Gore over Musgrove THIS year. Still doing that? Or, are you backtracking now, and saying you meant long term? You said he was more dominant this year. That isn't remotely close to what was said. What I did say was that AT THAT POINT, Gore had been the most dominant pitcher on the staff per his ERA, strikeouts and FIP. All true. Obviously, he's had some mechanical issues creep up, not unexpectedly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 16:34:15 GMT -8
MG to the bullpen, for now.
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