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Post by gigglyforshrigley on Jun 10, 2015 9:12:36 GMT -8
As Freshmen I remember Tyler & Josh Smith were ranked 1-2, going back & forth over the next year or so.
I can also say I've never seen 2 lazier ball players on the court in HS, which is one reason Josh dropped dramatically and ended up being a bust (for the most part) in college. I'm sure that didn't help Tyler either.
I played against Jeremy Tyler a few times in high school... and he was the biggest a$$hole I've ever come across. I knew he'd be a flop just from his attitude alone. He'd elbow and bully people like crazy and then when you get physical with him he'd throw a tantrum. I'll hate that guy forever
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Post by sdcoug on Jun 10, 2015 9:19:14 GMT -8
As Freshmen I remember Tyler & Josh Smith were ranked 1-2, going back & forth over the next year or so.
I can also say I've never seen 2 lazier ball players on the court in HS, which is one reason Josh dropped dramatically and ended up being a bust (for the most part) in college. I'm sure that didn't help Tyler either.
I played against Jeremy Tyler a few times in high school... and he was the biggest a$$hole I've ever come across. I knew he'd be a flop just from his attitude alone. He'd elbow and bully people like crazy and then when you get physical with him he'd throw a tantrum. I'll hate that guy forever LOL, can only imagine. Remember the first time I saw him he was at the Torrey Pines tournament & I swear he never went inside the key (on either end) the entire 1st half of the game. Guy loved to cheat up the floor on D & throw up 20 footers on O, and let his 6'1 teammates defend the paint & drive the key. LAZY! Sad waste of incredible talent.
Back on topic, I know Narain's working on that perimeter game but hope he refines his game in the key first & hope he'll forever have the motor he appears to have, and doesn't get the JTyler disease.
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Post by aztecttcas on Jun 10, 2015 9:22:01 GMT -8
I have to echo all these sentiments about Tyler. Dude was lazy. I watched him play vs Serra and I thought he was fundamentally horrible. San Diego's no hotbed for basketball so I was always skeptical how a San Diego kid would be ranked #1 in the country and yup I was right that he was not all that. On the flip side...Ayton and Hands seem to be the real deal.
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Post by standiego on Jun 11, 2015 7:56:39 GMT -8
Ayton and Hands are the real deal , unfortunately do not think we are a high priority for either of them , if they get the offers from the Blue Bloods .
If Narain has the smarts to possibly be able to graduate a year early then he certainly has his head on straight and light years ahead of Tyler , mentally . Know he has a great team mate Humphries that plays down low , if there is any way he could talk him into forming a twin towers duo for SDSU would be incredible for the Aztecs.
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 9, 2015 15:17:38 GMT -8
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Post by standiego on Jul 9, 2015 15:51:17 GMT -8
Rivals Ratings Narain #62, J.Allen 17, Cage 55 , Bailey 61 , Jackson 47 , Humphries 35 , Stanback 91 , Ekiyor 94, Harrison 148
did not see Ben Kone 's rating
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 9, 2015 16:04:57 GMT -8
Rivals Ratings Narain #62, J.Allen 17, Cage 55 , Bailey 61 , Jackson 47 , Humphries 35 , Stanback 91 , Ekiyor 94, Harrison 148 did not see Ben Kone 's rating This article doesn't have his rating/ranking, but here's a good one on Kone having us in his top 3 with OSU & Cal:
www.oregonlive.com/recruiting/index.ssf/2015/06/ben_kone_3-star_pfc_reviews_or.html
As for rankings in general, this article is always one of my favorites when identifying how critical a guys ranking is to how he performs. Think anyone wouldn't want McDermitt, Oladipo, Jordan Clarkson, Tony Snell or Andre Roberson, none of whom were in the top 125 back in 2010? Some pan out; some don't. I like Kone as much as Cage, personally.
collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/07/re-ranking-recruiting-classes-who-are-the-25-best-players-from-the-class-of-2010/
PS. BTW, Kawhi was "re-ranked" from #48 to #1 in the 2009 rankings, but 4 of the 15 best weren't in the top 125 coming out of HS.
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Post by fisherville on Jul 9, 2015 18:07:39 GMT -8
In general rankings do matters. The higher ranked the player is, the more likely he is to be good.
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Post by standiego on Jul 9, 2015 20:15:12 GMT -8
Guys rated in the top 12 by Rivals usually are guys that perform well in College and usually get drafted into the NBA . The top guys for 2014 were : Okafor, Mudiay , S. Johnson, Alexander, Towns, Oubre, T.Jones , Vaughn, Turner, Looney, J. Jackson , Winslow , Lyles . Will it be the same for 2015 , we will see. Then when you get past 12 , it is closer to a jump ball , who takes it to the next level and in how many years .The key then becomes can a coach project what guys have a high ceiling and be even better in college .
The July AAU weekends are interesting especially for the taller players , they face much better competition then they face during the regular season .Great time for Fisher and other coaches to evaluate the guys . Personally it seemed as though Kone played very well in the CIF finals . Does he continue to get better ? What happens with the other guys we are looking at . Then of course it also is a matter of what guys want to play at SDSU . As the coaches say not every recruit is a match for SDSU. We all want to believe they all want to come here, but know that is not what happens , have to see who visits and then signs the NLI . Would also add the competition for recruiting has gotten even rougher with the improvement of numerous PAC schools and the Zags . So it is not going to be easy landing the better recruits . Need very good talent evaluation of the guys ranked 15- 200 . How much will the JAM center help? Do guys Pass on the Aztecs because they know you need to play D to play ?
A lot of hard work the next few months for the coaches . You do not get to the higher level just by being a good staff . At least half the battle is getting quality players.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 4:35:41 GMT -8
Guys rated in the top 12 by Rivals usually are guys that perform well in College and usually get drafted into the NBA . The top guys for 2014 were : Okafor, Mudiay , S. Johnson, Alexander, Towns, Oubre, T.Jones , Vaughn, Turner, Looney, J. Jackson , Winslow , Lyles . Will it be the same for 2015 , we will see. Then when you get past 12 , it is closer to a jump ball , who takes it to the next level and in how many years .The key then becomes can a coach project what guys have a high ceiling and be even better in college . The July AAU weekends are interesting especially for the taller players , they face much better competition then they face during the regular season .Great time for Fisher and other coaches to evaluate the guys . Personally it seemed as though Kone played very well in the CIF finals . Does he continue to get better ? What happens with the other guys we are looking at . Then of course it also is a matter of what guys want to play at SDSU . As the coaches say not every recruit is a match for SDSU. We all want to believe they all want to come here, but know that is not what happens , have to see who visits and then signs the NLI . Would also add the competition for recruiting has gotten even rougher with the improvement of numerous PAC schools and the Zags . So it is not going to be easy landing the better recruits . Need very good talent evaluation of the guys ranked 15- 200 . How much will the JAM center help? Do guys Pass on the Aztecs because they know you need to play D to play ? A lot of hard work the next few months for the coaches . You do not get to the higher level just by being a good staff . At least half the battle is getting quality players. I have a good feeling about Kone; especially, since Jones left. Kone seems to really want to be an Aztec. I saw him at an SDSU game last year with his mother and by all appearances, he seemed like a real good kid. One of the things I have wanted Coach Fisher to improve about the Aztec's was depth with the Bigs. Getting Narain, Cage and Kone would be ideal!
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Post by hoobs on Jul 10, 2015 5:58:45 GMT -8
I have a good feeling about Kone; especially, since Jones left. Kone seems to really want to be an Aztec. I saw him at an SDSU game last year with his mother and by all appearances, he seemed like a real good kid. One of the things I have wanted Coach Fisher to improve about the Aztec's was depth with the Bigs. Getting Narain, Cage and Kone would be ideal! I really, really hope you're right about Kone and agree... that combination of bigs would be IDEAL!!!
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Post by Pasadenaztec on Jul 10, 2015 8:09:32 GMT -8
In general rankings do matters. The higher ranked the player is, the more likely he is to be good. "The higher ranked the player is, the more likely he is to be good".....Wow, there's a news flash for you!!...."
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Post by missiontrails on Jul 10, 2015 9:01:56 GMT -8
In general rankings do matters. The higher ranked the player is, the more likely he is to be good. "The higher ranked the player is, the more likely he is to be good".....Wow, there's a news flash for you!!...." "I believe the children are our future" ~ Houston, W.
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Post by docmm on Jul 10, 2015 10:39:00 GMT -8
Rivals Ratings Narain #62, J.Allen 17, Cage 55 , Bailey 61 , Jackson 47 , Humphries 35 , Stanback 91 , Ekiyor 94, Harrison 148 did not see Ben Kone 's rating This article doesn't have his rating/ranking, but here's a good one on Kone having us in his top 3 with OSU & Cal:
www.oregonlive.com/recruiting/index.ssf/2015/06/ben_kone_3-star_pfc_reviews_or.html
As for rankings in general, this article is always one of my favorites when identifying how critical a guys ranking is to how he performs. Think anyone wouldn't want McDermitt, Oladipo, Jordan Clarkson, Tony Snell or Andre Roberson, none of whom were in the top 125 back in 2010? Some pan out; some don't. I like Kone as much as Cage, personally.
collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/07/re-ranking-recruiting-classes-who-are-the-25-best-players-from-the-class-of-2010/
PS. BTW, Kawhi was "re-ranked" from #48 to #1 in the 2009 rankings, but 4 of the 15 best weren't in the top 125 coming out of HS.
Here's some info on Josh Selby, the #1 Ranked HS player coming into college in 2010. Talent minus heart/basketball sense isn't usually a formula for success. I'm purely speculating of course but look how much this guy has moved around. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Selby
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 10, 2015 10:51:30 GMT -8
Here's some info on Josh Selby, the #1 Ranked HS player coming into college in 2010. Talent minus heart/basketball sense isn't usually a formula for success. I'm purely speculating of course but look how much this guy has moved around. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_SelbyYep, and he's not the only #1 recruit or even top 10 recruit to fall flat. Scout, Rivals, etc. attend limited events when evaluating players, and typically in AAU-style games where kids just try to be flashy. Or at least more so than what would equate to their college career. The AAU games, and even HS can give you a good picture on athleticism and scoring ability, but often falls short when evaluating whether a player has peaked physically vs. those who are still very raw, as well as heart. Hence why in the end 1 in 4 of the better college players are kids who flew under the radar.
Rankings are fun for fans to review/debate, but they're far from what dictates success. What separates the big boys from the 2nd tier schools like us is that the Kentucky's, Duke's, Kansas's get 4-5+ highly ranked players every year so if 1 falls on his face it has less of an impact. It's as much, if not more so, quantity over quality. It just happens they get a large quantity of quality, something most 2nd tier schools are not able to do.
Plus, after the first 10-15 it really becomes a crapshoot. Especially with bigs, who are more likely to develop late. So getting hung up on whether a kid is ranked 40th vs. 80th vs. 120th vs. 150th vs. not ranked is solely for fan entertainment purposes only, as those rankings - if redone 4-5 years later, most likely would change significantly.
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Post by fisherville on Jul 10, 2015 12:50:12 GMT -8
Rivals and Scout go to almost all of the top events, they work hard. They aren't perfect just like coaches aren't perfect (no I'm not saying they are as qualified as coaches to evaluate but they do a damn good job of it). It is not simply a crap shoot after the top 10-15, a player ranked 40th is significantly more likely to be better than a player ranked 150th.
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 10, 2015 15:27:20 GMT -8
Rivals and Scout go to almost all of the top events, they work hard. They aren't perfect just like coaches aren't perfect (no I'm not saying they are as qualified as coaches to evaluate but they do a damn good job of it). It is not simply a crap shoot after the top 10-15, a player ranked 40th is significantly more likely to be better than a player ranked 150th. Never said they don't do a good job, but yes, they're FAR from infallible. What they are good at is looking at how a player is TODAY, and ranking them. They're less qualified, and I know guys who write for Scout who have told me this personally, they're less likely to predict how good a player will be in 2-3 years. So a player who is ranked 40th may be better than one ranked 150 TODAY, but it's very possible that the guy ranked 40th may have peaked whereas someone ranked 150th is just coming into their own in a year or two. Bodies mature in different time frames.
So when it comes to forecasting college success rankings are MUCH less relevant.
Coaches are much more efficient at identifying potential, as they spend 4 years watching guys develop based on certain traits, and now what to look for based on their past references & experiences. Scout or Rival reps tend to look at today, and how player A compares to player B today, or how a top player today compares to what a top player looked like the year before.
Again, not saying rankings are useless or getting highly ranked players isn't preferable. Just saying rankings are more for the fans & generating page views & memberships, and less about forecasting potential & actual growth. You wouldn't have so many unranked or low ranked players coming out of HS going to the NBA if they were really effective at predicting growth & potential.
That's also why you'll see a player like a Cage going from being a top 20-30 recruit as a Soph to being lower ranked by some now, or a skinny kid like Narain moving up the charts. Imagine of they all played another year of HS ball, how much further those ratings would adjust.
I'm a geek - I love looking at these rankings & pay for membership access to some. But I also realize to define a recruiting class based on them getting a #75 recruit vs. a #130 is ridiculous.
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Post by standiego on Jul 10, 2015 15:39:35 GMT -8
Believe most of us would agree Rivals does a very good job of rating the top 12 players each year , or at least the NBA thinks so. In 2014 maybe 8 of the top 11 recruits were PF or C . 2015 maybe 6 of 10 Very likely One and done ,so , those Blue Blood schools will be looking to reload for 2016. 2016 seems as though there could be only 4 C or PF . Recruits # 12 through # 20 there are about 5 .( that makes 9 PF or C in the top 20)# 21 through # 41 about 11 (Humphries #35). #43 through # 62 another 7 including Cage # 55 , Narain # 62 . Will guess Kone will work his way up into the top 150 or even higher ?, although if he stayed lower we may have a better chance to get him . Recruits from 12 through 100 , it is a matter of what coaches can evaluate talent ( especially as noted the taller players ) as to who will elevate their game in the schools system . Also what guys want to come to SDSU ,where you need to play defense . not all guys buy in . It should be very interesting to see how the recruits do during the July events . See what visits get lined up for the fall by the coaches. JAM center should help for recruiting .
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Post by sdcoug on Jul 10, 2015 15:49:38 GMT -8
It should be very interesting to see how the recruits do during the July events . See what visits get lined up for the fall by the coaches. I hear Dutch is in Atlanta right now; haven't heard about the rest of the coaches. I'm sure we'll have the max allowed in Vegas.
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Post by standiego on Jul 11, 2015 10:23:54 GMT -8
Believe there are 3 different events being held in Atlanta this week/end The Adidas event (, think Compton Magic Elite is there ),also Elite 32 and Best of the South . There are also at least 3 other major events in other locations . T. Maker is at the Under Armor / Rivals event . These events do give the taller players more competition then during the season. To my understanding only 1 coach from a school may attend a game , but they can trade off. There are two more busy weekends in July before " Quiet " August period . No one is saying the ratings are perfect , but by the end of July , coaches do have a better read on many of the recruits and how they compare . Combining their evaluation and what the Ratings polls say. The dozen on the top are usually fairly solid excellent players . Then the next 100 or so all depends on development of the player and the system they are playing in .
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