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Post by bearfoot on Oct 20, 2014 11:45:08 GMT -8
If I'm not mistaken you should try to intercept the Hail Mary when it's not 4th down with some time left. That's why only WRs should be back there to defend. I think Hawaii had a few seconds remaining to have another shot at it and that's when DBs are put in there to swat it away. I can't, and won't, criticize the kid for trying to catch the ball. We can sit behind our keyboards and calmly consider and discuss the various strategies. He had to make a decision in a fraction of a second. He probably didn't have time to think, only react. Who knows where the ball ends up if he tries to bat it down. And as the title of this tread says ... I agree. However, K Morrison was adamant that the DB should have knocked the ball down. I think it became a "teachable moment" and doubt if we see it again.
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Post by Ambivalent_Fan on Oct 20, 2014 11:45:33 GMT -8
I guess I was wrong...I thought that dead horse was beaten to a pulp last week...looks like there are some still whacking away at the rotting carcass...
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Post by AzTex on Oct 20, 2014 12:25:31 GMT -8
I guess I was wrong...I thought that dead horse was beaten to a pulp last week...looks like there are some still whacking away at the rotting carcass... Aztecs win so I have no complaints.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 20, 2014 13:05:49 GMT -8
I guess I was wrong...I thought that dead horse was beaten to a pulp last week...looks like there are some still whacking away at the rotting carcass... Aztecs win so I have no complaints. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that we won. I guess I've gotten impatient waiting for this program to meet its full potential. This IS year 6 of the turnaround after all. I just know that Aztec football should mean 9 & 10 win regular seasons with regularity given our competition. As a kid that's what I saw, and I really miss those kinds of seasons. 3 decades of disappointment really wore me down. I would just like to be a fan of a program that other team's fans would be jealous of for a change. We've been so close that it's made me a little crazy. (What do you mean, "More than a little?")
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Post by darksidereturns on Oct 20, 2014 13:22:40 GMT -8
I can't, and won't, criticize the kid for trying to catch the ball. We can sit behind our keyboards and calmly consider and discuss the various strategies. He had to make a decision in a fraction of a second. He probably didn't have time to think, only react. Who knows where the ball ends up if he tries to bat it down. And as the title of this tread says ... I agree. However, K Morrison was adamant that the DB should have knocked the ball down. I think it became a "teachable moment" and doubt if we see it again. Rocky spoke about this directly after the game. You don't bat the ball when there's time on the clock and it's not 4th down. Said Rockey..."The problem was our defensive backs tried to catch it underhanded like a punt returner instead of going up and getting the ball. That's why it happened. Now, hopefully they learned because the two interceptions [in the second half] they went up and got the ball."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 14:26:12 GMT -8
I saw that too. Hard to blame him for that kind of mistake in the heat of battle. The natural instinct is to catch the ball. I'm sure the coaches will address that when reviewing the films. If I'm not mistaken you should try to intercept the Hail Mary when it's not 4th down with some time left. That's why only WRs should be back there to defend. I think Hawaii had a few seconds remaining to have another shot at it and that's when DBs are put in there to swat it away. You're 100% correct since it was only third down and Hawaii was probably outside FG range. Damn, it's only Monday and I've already used up my weekly Duh! quota.
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Post by fanhood on Oct 20, 2014 14:59:38 GMT -8
Aztecs win so I have no complaints. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that we won. I guess I've gotten impatient waiting for this program to meet its full potential. This IS year 6 of the turnaround after all. I just know that Aztec football should mean 9 & 10 win regular seasons with regularity given our competition. As a kid that's what I saw, and I really miss those kinds of seasons. 3 decades of disappointment really wore me down. I would just like to be a fan of a program that other team's fans would be jealous of for a change. We've been so close that it's made me a little crazy. (What do you mean, "More than a little?") Alabama fans act as if they are entitled to winning National Championships. We should not act entitled to anything at this point. I am thankful that we have recovered from the 10 year Dark Age and are now consistently competing for Conference Championships. Here are what I believe are reasonable expectations for Aztec Fans: Every year we should be competing for the conference championship. So far, Rocky has done that. He has won one Conference title in three years, and has a chance to win two in four if we win this year. Secondly, I believe that we can expect that every fourth year or so, we have a "special year." I would say that a "special year" is a year that we go 10-2 or 11-1 with an upset over a team we were predicted to lose to (UNC, Oregon State, Missouri, etc). I agree that Rocky has not been able to deliver this second part. However, we are bad QB play away from being 6-1 right now. We would all be singing a different tune had we beat UNC, then QK had not been injured against FSU.
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Post by RockNFish on Oct 20, 2014 15:04:39 GMT -8
I saw that too. Hard to blame him for that kind of mistake in the heat of battle. The natural instinct is to catch the ball. I'm sure the coaches will address that when reviewing the films. If I'm not mistaken you should try to intercept the Hail Mary when it's not 4th down with some time left. That's why only WRs should be back there to defend. I think Hawaii had a few seconds remaining to have another shot at it and that's when DBs are put in there to swat it away. Rocky said after the game that the mistake was not going after the ball at its highest point - he tried to catch is underhanded like a put return.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 20, 2014 17:04:50 GMT -8
Don't get me wrong, I am happy that we won. I guess I've gotten impatient waiting for this program to meet its full potential. This IS year 6 of the turnaround after all. I just know that Aztec football should mean 9 & 10 win regular seasons with regularity given our competition. As a kid that's what I saw, and I really miss those kinds of seasons. 3 decades of disappointment really wore me down. I would just like to be a fan of a program that other team's fans would be jealous of for a change. We've been so close that it's made me a little crazy. (What do you mean, "More than a little?") Alabama fans act as if they are entitled to winning National Championships. We should not act entitled to anything at this point. I am thankful that we have recovered from the 10 year Dark Age and are now consistently competing for Conference Championships. Here are what I believe are reasonable expectations for Aztec Fans: Every year we should be competing for the conference championship. So far, Rocky has done that. He has won one Conference title in three years, and has a chance to win two in four if we win this year. Secondly, I believe that we can expect that every fourth year or so, we have a "special year." I would say that a "special year" is a year that we go 10-2 or 11-1 with an upset over a team we were predicted to lose to (UNC, Oregon State, Missouri, etc). I agree with that to a point, but what you've got to remember is that we have more potential than any other program in the conference. We've got by far the best location (not a lot of kids are going to want to go to Reno or Boise over San Diego), we've got by far the best local talent base (San Diego is a hotbed for HS football with a ton of talent here each and every year), and as far as I know we have the best facilities in the conference (maybe Boise's got some nicer amenities, but I can't imagine that any of the other schools in this conference have better facilities than SDSU does). So for that reason (the greatest potential in the conference) we should never be below 6-6, and we should usually be 8-4 or 9-3 with at least one 10-2 season every four years or so. I don't expect more, and I won't complain if we don't get to 11 wins in the regular season, but I would sure love to see it! This program has a ton of upside.
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Post by sdcoug on Oct 20, 2014 17:46:51 GMT -8
Alabama fans act as if they are entitled to winning National Championships. We should not act entitled to anything at this point. I am thankful that we have recovered from the 10 year Dark Age and are now consistently competing for Conference Championships. Here are what I believe are reasonable expectations for Aztec Fans: Every year we should be competing for the conference championship. So far, Rocky has done that. He has won one Conference title in three years, and has a chance to win two in four if we win this year. Secondly, I believe that we can expect that every fourth year or so, we have a "special year." I would say that a "special year" is a year that we go 10-2 or 11-1 with an upset over a team we were predicted to lose to (UNC, Oregon State, Missouri, etc). I agree with that to a point, but what you've got to remember is that we have more potential than any other program in the conference. We've got by far the best location (not a lot of kids are going to want to go to Reno or Boise over San Diego), we've got by far the best local talent base (San Diego is a hotbed for HS football with a ton of talent here each and every year), and as far as I know we have the best facilities in the conference (maybe Boise's got some nicer amenities, but I can't imagine that any of the other schools in this conference have better facilities than SDSU does). So for that reason (the greatest potential in the conference) we should never be below 6-6, and we should usually be 8-4 or 9-3 with at least one 10-2 season every four years or so. I don't expect more, and I won't complain if we don't get to 11 wins in the regular season, but I would sure love to see it! This program has a ton of upside. Fresno is in a very good recruiting area, and Vegas is very central to not only LA but SF & anything in the South as well. Cheap flights. The others are definitely more removed from major recruiting metros. That said, I'm sure as to what makes you think our facilities are good? We don't even have an on campus stadium. Is our practice facility better than anyone elses? Do we have a football only ops building that separates us from the competition? SD is a GREAT city, but these are kids seeking to extend their playing careers as well. The city can take a backseat, since most of their hours are spent either on campus studying or focusing on football. Just because it's a prettier town than Reno doesn't necessarily make it a better football destination. Hopefully everything else related to the campus itself does though. I'd like to think SDSU should be continually ranked among the upper half of the conference year in & out, but there are several other programs thinking the exact same thing. I'm not convinced from a football facility perspective we really have distinguished ourselves all that much yet. The Viejas upgrades & the new practice facility are allowing us to do so in hoops, but where have the big investments been behind football?
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 20, 2014 18:17:38 GMT -8
Didn't we upgrade our football facilities about 6 or 8 years ago? I would swear that we did some upgrades around that time.
And even if we don't have an on campus stadium most of the MWC stadiums are a bit of a joke.
We've got the advantages. Don't downplay our edge. We just haven't had an Athletic Director and Head Coach able to take advantage of that edge until Hoke/Long/Borges came along, and Rocky continued to use that edge to his advantage which is why we've got players that most fans are genuinely excited about seeing over the next couple of years.
We may never be USC or Stanford, but we should definitely be 10-2 as often as (or more often than) we go 7-5 or lower as long as we're in this conference. We can do it. I BELIEVE.
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Post by fanhood on Oct 20, 2014 18:54:25 GMT -8
Didn't we upgrade our football facilities about 6 or 8 years ago? I would swear that we did some upgrades around that time. And even if we don't have an on campus stadium most of the MWC stadiums are a bit of a joke. We've got the advantages. Don't downplay our edge. We just haven't had an Athletic Director and Head Coach able to take advantage of that edge until Hoke/Long/Borges came along, and Rocky continued to use that edge to his advantage which is why we've got players that most fans are genuinely excited about seeing over the next couple of years. We may never be USC or Stanford, but we should definitely be 10-2 as often as (or more often than) we go 7-5 or lower as long as we're in this conference. We can do it. I BELIEVE. See, I think you stretch there at the end. Think about your statement "but we should definitely be 10-2 as often (or more often than) we go 7-5 or lower as long as we are in this conference. We can do it." What does it take for SDSU to go 10-2 more often than 7-5 or 8-4? Well, lets look at 2015 to use it as an example. We play at CAL and at Penn State. Both of these games are certainly winnable. However, they are on the road, and will be in tough environments. James Franklin has won everywhere he has been as an assistant and as a Head Coach. He also is a terrific recruiter. You can assume that with two recruiting classes under his belt, he will have a few of his guys that would not have been there if it were not for him. The Penn State game became infinitely harder once he was hired. CAL looks very strong under Sonny Dykes this year, after that disaster that was last year. It will be early in the season, so the fan base will still be excited. For arguments sake, lets say that we beat CAL in large upset and lose to Penn State. Then we play Idaho at home, and Nichols State at home, and win both those games. In this scenario, we have beaten a PAC 12 team on the road, something I do not believe we have ever done. We are now sitting at 3-1 heading into the conference play. We play Colorado State, Hawaii, San Jose State and UNLV on the road. Colorado State is the most improved team in the MW. They have won at Boston College and at a neutral site against an improved Colorado team. They have also pulled out a close game against a very solid Utah State team. Hawaii is always tough to play on the road, San Jose is better than they use to be, and UNLV seems to bite us occasionally. But for arguments sake, lets say that we lose to Colorado State, but pull out close wins against SJSU, Hawaii and UNLV. At home, we play a Fresno State team that we have not beat in three years, and is the two time defending champ. We play good and very tough Utah State club that has weathered the storm of losing their star QB and is still highly competitive. We also play Wyoming who will certainly be improved with Craig Bohl, and we play Nevada who is my opinion is on the decline, but always has good offense. For arguments sake, lets assume we go 4-0 at home, beating some talented teams. In this scenario, we have reached 10-2. We have done so by doing something we have never done (beaten a Pac 12 team on the road). We have gone on the road to win in Hawaii, beat decent program in SJSU, and UNLV. We also have gone undefeated at home, beating Fresno State (always tough and has our number), and a Utah State team that has incredible upside and has proven to be one of the most consistent teams in the MW. My point is 10-2 is very possible, but to expect it more often than not is being unrealistic and delusional. Like I said, if we can go 10-2 or 11-1 every four years, while legitimately competing for a conference championship during the other years, that is one hell of an accomplishment. Guess what? We are one bad throw, and an injured QB away from doing that this year. In order to accomplish what you seemingly want to accomplish nearly every year, it would take an upset over a Power 5 school, going undefeated at home, and generally an upset over a MW team on the road. It would also mean that we stay healthy, the calls go our way, and we have a little bit of luck.
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Post by AzTex on Oct 20, 2014 20:02:28 GMT -8
In this scenario, we have beaten a PAC 12 team on the road, something I do not believe we have ever done. We did beat Oregon St. on the road 25-0 in 1975. We also beat Oklahoma St. on the road 23-16 in 1981 (not Pac 12, I know).
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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 20, 2014 20:03:33 GMT -8
On the other hand, we were one Hawai'i penalty (I refer to the H. kickoff return for a TD) away from leading by only 3 points. I do not discount the many good things we saw in the game. It's the inability to finish, the failure to score the TD in the red zone and having to settle for a FG that worries me. We were forced to kick three times and made the FG twice. Erase the six points from those FGs and add three TDs, which I think we should have scored, and the final score is 35-10. 35-10 is the kind of score that, in my view, should result when we play a bad team at home. And Hawai'i is assuredly a bad team. Yes, it's easy sometimes to ignore the good and concentrate on the bad. (Although that's just exactly what coaches do and should do!) But let's not exaggerate where we are and what we have done beginning with the outstanding 2010 season. It's four years later and the program, while in some ways solidifying the gains of that great turnaround year, has not taken the next step. The next step in my mind would be an outright MWC championship, a bowl win and a Top-25 ranking. I read a lot about how great we are going to be next year because our players are still young and we have a wonderful QB redshirting this season, etc. I certainly hope all that comes to pass. Let's just not get ahead of ourselves. The next five games will indicate whether program has improved, has stayed about the same, or has regressed a bit. AzWm On the other hand, we were one Hawai'i penalty (I refer to the H. kickoff return for a TD) away from leading by only 3 points. Here we go again, without the hold there is no TD return. At no other point did we give up a long KO return Saturday night. It took a holding penalty to free up the return man to get that return. Are you sure? I thought the hold did not affect the play. but I could be wrong. Also, even if the hold was crucial, we were still lucky that it got called. You do remember the Missouri game, don't you? OBVIOUS block in the back by the Tigers that broke their man free to score the winning touchdown. Should have been a signature win against a BCS school, on national TV, and what happened? We got robbed. Again. But I will stay with my original thought. Good to win, but we want an Aztec football program that may struggle against the conference's better teams but also makes quick work of the tail-enders. AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 20, 2014 20:30:25 GMT -8
We beat Arizona on the road in '33 and in '77. And don't forget that big tie with Arizona State in 1951. Okay, that was a long time ago, but still . . .
I continue to believe that 8 games a year, with occasional exceptions, should be the least that we win. I also believe that, if we had made good hiring decisions at critical points during the past 3 and a half decades, 8 would have been our floor, with many seasons ending with 9, 10, or more wins to our credit. Or maybe SDSU simply does not have the wherewithal to compete with New Mexico, UNLV, Colorado State, etc. I would hate to think that.
AzWm
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Post by bearfoot on Oct 20, 2014 20:57:56 GMT -8
Alabama fans act as if they are entitled to winning National Championships. We should not act entitled to anything at this point. I am thankful that we have recovered from the 10 year Dark Age and are now consistently competing for Conference Championships. Here are what I believe are reasonable expectations for Aztec Fans: Every year we should be competing for the conference championship. So far, Rocky has done that. He has won one Conference title in three years, and has a chance to win two in four if we win this year. Secondly, I believe that we can expect that every fourth year or so, we have a "special year." I would say that a "special year" is a year that we go 10-2 or 11-1 with an upset over a team we were predicted to lose to (UNC, Oregon State, Missouri, etc). I agree with that to a point, but what you've got to remember is that we have more potential than any other program in the conference. We've got by far the best location (not a lot of kids are going to want to go to Reno or Boise over San Diego), we've got by far the best local talent base (San Diego is a hotbed for HS football with a ton of talent here each and every year), and as far as I know we have the best facilities in the conference (maybe Boise's got some nicer amenities, but I can't imagine that any of the other schools in this conference have better facilities than SDSU does). So for that reason (the greatest potential in the conference) we should never be below 6-6, and we should usually be 8-4 or 9-3 with at least one 10-2 season every four years or so. I don't expect more, and I won't complain if we don't get to 11 wins in the regular season, but I would sure love to see it! This program has a ton of upside. Yes, we have the best location. Yes, we may have the best facilities. Yes, we have the best depth in our athletic department. (you didn't mention this, but I am.) Yes, we are in the center of a whole lot of great HS football. (In part, due to the teams you and I root for) However, we are also in the center of Pac 12 recruiting. However, we are the little dog in this pound, and BSU and Nevada are not. Those two have their regions all to themselves as do FSU, CSU, and that is attractive. We also have the Q. There are other much better stadia in this league for college football. (FSU, BSU and maybe Nevada and soon CSU)
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 21, 2014 4:15:54 GMT -8
I still say that overall we have more advantages than any other football program in the conference and the greatest potential.
We've gotten closer to reaching that potential over the last 5 years, and it's time to step up to the next level. I know we can do it. (It may not be easy, but we can definitely do it.)
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Post by aztecsiggy on Oct 21, 2014 4:34:16 GMT -8
If I'm not mistaken you should try to intercept the Hail Mary when it's not 4th down with some time left. That's why only WRs should be back there to defend. I think Hawaii had a few seconds remaining to have another shot at it and that's when DBs are put in there to swat it away. You're 100% correct since it was only third down and Hawaii was probably outside FG range. Damn, it's only Monday and I've already used up my weekly Duh! quota. Thank you for being considerate of others and not repeating yourself. I want you to know your sacrifice didn't go unnoticed.
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Post by HollywoodAztec on Oct 22, 2014 7:59:08 GMT -8
Aztecs win so I have no complaints. Don't get me wrong, I am happy that we won. I guess I've gotten impatient waiting for this program to meet its full potential. This IS year 6 of the turnaround after all. I just know that Aztec football should mean 9 & 10 win regular seasons with regularity given our competition. As a kid that's what I saw, and I really miss those kinds of seasons. 3 decades of disappointment really wore me down. I would just like to be a fan of a program that other team's fans would be jealous of for a change. We've been so close that it's made me a little crazy. (What do you mean, "More than a little?") I think we’re all in agreement that we should be better than an 8-win team especially in a league perceived to be of lower competitive level. Trust me, we get it. Achieving 10+ win seasons including victories over P5 teams and breaking into the top 25 should be what we’re shooting for. We get that too. However, your unceasing criticism of our team despite producing four straight bowl seasons has run its course, particularly after our wins. Instead of simply savoring the ‘W,’ you find fault in how they won. And you also find fault in the way they lose. After those discouraging seasons under Craft and C. Long, I’m happy that we’re actually winning 8 games and going to postseason albeit obscure bowl games. But please don’t mistake my contentment as being comfortable where we are today. I’m completely aware that we should continue striving to be better because we are in a pageantry contest with everyone in G5. The best looking candidate gets that most coveted invite. We know this and get it. Moreover, you implied time and time again that R. Long is not the coach to lead us to the Promised Land. We get that too. He may lack that certain je ne sais quoi that you seek in a coach but if you look at the overall talent he has assembled, I think he’s very close to breaking through that barrier of getting us to the next level you incessantly talk about. But in the meantime, is it really too much to give the team and the coaching staff some credit whenever they win? They may not meet your “standard” with their victories but I doubt you or anyone else will dispute the fact that an ugly win is always better than a pretty loss no matter who the opponent is.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 22, 2014 8:56:47 GMT -8
Hollywood...
I have made it clear over the last two weeks that I'm over the whole Rocky Long thing. Rocky's not going anywhere. I have stated all along that I believe him to be a good coach, just not the coach to elevate this program to the 10 win in the regular season level. I like the guy, and I like his coaching style to a point. He's just not the long term answer (he has already reached retirement age, after all).
As for last Saturday's game, I thought the team looked flat for much of the game and they were a bit sloppy at times.
But they won, and that's the bottom line. Scoreboard.
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