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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 9:35:32 GMT -8
Post by besamiazteca on Dec 17, 2012 9:35:32 GMT -8
Clearly WSIII is struggling big time. The real concern is his play on the floor. All the bad attitude, bad teammate stuff is secondary. You don't have to be a good teammate, coachable guy to perfom on the floor. Jamaal is a very polarizing player for the fan base. However, he drops a double double every night. So we all live with it. Where this all ends is anybody's guess. But it comes down to WSIII perfoming on the floor.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 9:38:48 GMT -8
Post by longtimebooster on Dec 17, 2012 9:38:48 GMT -8
Clearly WSIII is struggling big time. The real concern is his play on the floor. All the bad attitude, bad teammate stuff is secondary. You don't have to be a good teammate, coachable guy to perfom on the floor. Jamaal is a very polarizing player for the fan base. However, he drops a double double every night. So we all live with it. Where this all ends is anybody's guess. But it comes down to WSIII perfoming on the floor. Man, if we could just get Shep on the floor and Johnson on the glass -- we'd be unbeatable.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 10:16:42 GMT -8
Post by danloc09 on Dec 17, 2012 10:16:42 GMT -8
Shep can be good, maybe very good. But he's no five star recruit. What does that even mean?
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 10:41:22 GMT -8
Post by Section T(urn Up) on Dec 17, 2012 10:41:22 GMT -8
In response to LTB (not quoting bc of the length and implied specificity of quoting), I don't feel that I fall under the category of knee jerk reaction you're referring to, but I do think you're inadvertently picking up the cross of an irrational bunch.
I think it is perfectly fine to discuss the obvious attitude WS is showing. I don't see any merit in debating whether hi attitude is good or bad--it's clear that he's frustrated and needs to grow emotionally, which I think he is doing over the course of the still young season. Where I draw the line is at making conclusory statements about his character, relationship with teammates or coaches, and his future with the program. What we see during games is what matters 100% to us as fans, but it probably makes up 2-3% of the time WS is around teammates or coaches. To try and extrapolate in some meaningful way from that snapshot is foolish at best. Fans posting here should be careful not to cross into baseless speculation about personal matters. His actions during games, what he says to coaches and refs, is fair to criticize. That's ours to criticize as fans. His relationships with teammates and coaches is not ours to criticize as fans.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 11:10:02 GMT -8
Post by TheSanDiegan on Dec 17, 2012 11:10:02 GMT -8
Again, why is everyone so buttsore about a candid observation about the highest-rated recruit in our program's history? So, what's the protocol here? No one gets to say anything about anyone on our team unless it's all cotton candy, rainbows and unicorns? Puh-leeze. A few things to remember if you're one of the fans circling the wagons in knee-jerk fashion: 1. It's perfectly acceptable to be concerned about a player following several observable incidents (don't need to be an insider to see him pulling away from teammates, jawing with the refs and snapping at his coach.) 2. Very few here were expecting Shep to walk into a very talented team, hop into the driver's seat and start flooring it like he's behind the wheel of a Grand Prix race car. That's silly. Just looking at the kid, I don't think he's going to be a force until his junior year. He looks very immature physically. By the time he packs on some muscle and begins working with Fish on his gray matter, he'll be playing on a whole different level -- probably even a lottery pick guy. Kawhi came her and looked like a stud from day one. Dude looked like he was 25. Shep looks like he's 17. Acts like it sometimes, too. It's not a sin. He's just going to need some time. And, BTW, the coaches have told me that he shows flashes of hoops genius in practice frequently. It's just going to be a matter of developing that ability and making it a constant during game time conditions. 3. Some random grumblings on a sports chat board aren't going to drive Shep away and make him transfer. That's silly. It also demonstrates an inflated sense of self purpose for some on this board. 4. Shep IS talking back to his coach, jawing with the refs and pouting. Any observant fan can see this. Don't need to be an insider. It's a problem. And it needs to be addressed. 5. I have the utmost faith in Fisher during this process of maturity for Shep. If there's anyone who can help Shep work through these issues, it's Fisher. I'm sure he's completely aware of the situation and has a handle on it. 6. If it's OK to point out that Tapley is the ultimate competitor, team player and leader, then it should be OK to point out that Shep has a ways to go and could learn a lot from Chase. That's all. Carry on. Those of you expecting some magical morphology by which an 18 year-old KID transforms overnight into a beacon of emotional maturity need to seriously recalibrate their expectations, both of Winston and of anyone's ability to mentor his (or anyone else's) mental development to fruition over the course of a single college semester. Jesus... give Fish and Winston some time, would ya? Now, I'm not saying that some of our posters here come off at times as borderline retarded. However, it is no small coincidence IMO that you could fill up a short bus in this thread.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 13:25:23 GMT -8
Post by johneaztec on Dec 17, 2012 13:25:23 GMT -8
Again, why is everyone so buttsore about a candid observation about the highest-rated recruit in our program's history? So, what's the protocol here? No one gets to say anything about anyone on our team unless it's all cotton candy, rainbows and unicorns? Puh-leeze. A few things to remember if you're one of the fans circling the wagons in knee-jerk fashion: 1. It's perfectly acceptable to be concerned about a player following several observable incidents (don't need to be an insider to see him pulling away from teammates, jawing with the refs and snapping at his coach.) 2. Very few here were expecting Shep to walk into a very talented team, hop into the driver's seat and start flooring it like he's behind the wheel of a Grand Prix race car. That's silly. Just looking at the kid, I don't think he's going to be a force until his junior year. He looks very immature physically. By the time he packs on some muscle and begins working with Fish on his gray matter, he'll be playing on a whole different level -- probably even a lottery pick guy. Kawhi came her and looked like a stud from day one. Dude looked like he was 25. Shep looks like he's 17. Acts like it sometimes, too. It's not a sin. He's just going to need some time. And, BTW, the coaches have told me that he shows flashes of hoops genius in practice frequently. It's just going to be a matter of developing that ability and making it a constant during game time conditions. 3. Some random grumblings on a sports chat board aren't going to drive Shep away and make him transfer. That's silly. It also demonstrates an inflated sense of self purpose for some on this board. 4. Shep IS talking back to his coach, jawing with the refs and pouting. Any observant fan can see this. Don't need to be an insider. It's a problem. And it needs to be addressed. 5. I have the utmost faith in Fisher during this process of maturity for Shep. If there's anyone who can help Shep work through these issues, it's Fisher. I'm sure he's completely aware of the situation and has a handle on it. 6. If it's OK to point out that Tapley is the ultimate competitor, team player and leader, then it should be OK to point out that Shep has a ways to go and could learn a lot from Chase. That's all. Carry on. Those of you expecting some magical morphology by which an 18 year-old KID transforms overnight into a beacon of emotional maturity need to seriously recalibrate their expectations, both of Winston and of anyone's ability to mentor his (or anyone else's) mental development to fruition over the course of a single college semester. Jesus... give Fish and Winston some time, would ya? Now, I'm not saying that some of our posters here come off at times as borderline retarded. However, it is no small coincidence IMO that you could fill up a short bus in this thread. Not funny for the ones with mentally disabled children, family or friends.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 13:37:41 GMT -8
Post by johneaztec on Dec 17, 2012 13:37:41 GMT -8
Arguing with your coach more than once, and not being receptive to your teammates (nice way to put it) is more than just showing a little emotion. It something that needs to be nipped in the bud. Personally, I NEVER expected a Carmelo like freshman year, actually just an attitude free Freshman year, with some contributions on the defensive end. By his last year here fully expecting him to live up to the hype. How do you have such insight about his attitude? Because of what you see on TV and when your at the games? You have NO CLUE about his relationships with his Coaches or Teammates... I have no clue either because like you, I am on the outside looking in. The only way you could make such statements about the kids attitude and how he is "not receptive to his teammates" is if you were in practices, in the locker room, on the plane to games, in the gym for shoot around, ETC.... If you make such bold statements based on what you see on tv and in your Viejas Seat you truly have no clue... Have you ever played sports competitively? Things happen in the heat of the moment that do not at all reflect how things really are. You're taking it waaaaay too far. I'm talking about how he argues with Fisher, and how he's not receptive to his teammates ON THE COURT AT TIMES. I didn't know I had to spell it out that way. Not in the locker room. It's so friggin obvious that he needs to get these issues under control to become the complete player that I think he will be. It's so obvious that I had no idea there would be this type of backlash. Wow. You don't have to be Einstein to notice it. He's done these things several times ON THE COURT. All I'm saying is, don't argue with Fisher, and don't brush off your teammates AT TIMES. That's it. Work on it. Geeeeeeze. By the way, I've played alot of sports at the upper levels. I'll leave it at that, and actually, I would question you and anybody else if they've played competitive sports before in their life and weren't concerned about it for the kid and their team.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 13:39:56 GMT -8
Post by johneaztec on Dec 17, 2012 13:39:56 GMT -8
Again, why is everyone so buttsore about a candid observation about the highest-rated recruit in our program's history? So, what's the protocol here? No one gets to say anything about anyone on our team unless it's all cotton candy, rainbows and unicorns? Puh-leeze. A few things to remember if you're one of the fans circling the wagons in knee-jerk fashion: 1. It's perfectly acceptable to be concerned about a player following several observable incidents (don't need to be an insider to see him pulling away from teammates, jawing with the refs and snapping at his coach.) 2. Very few here were expecting Shep to walk into a very talented team, hop into the driver's seat and start flooring it like he's behind the wheel of a Grand Prix race car. That's silly. Just looking at the kid, I don't think he's going to be a force until his junior year. He looks very immature physically. By the time he packs on some muscle and begins working with Fish on his gray matter, he'll be playing on a whole different level -- probably even a lottery pick guy. Kawhi came her and looked like a stud from day one. Dude looked like he was 25. Shep looks like he's 17. Acts like it sometimes, too. It's not a sin. He's just going to need some time. And, BTW, the coaches have told me that he shows flashes of hoops genius in practice frequently. It's just going to be a matter of developing that ability and making it a constant during game time conditions. 3. Some random grumblings on a sports chat board aren't going to drive Shep away and make him transfer. That's silly. It also demonstrates an inflated sense of self purpose for some on this board. 4. Shep IS talking back to his coach, jawing with the refs and pouting. Any observant fan can see this. Don't need to be an insider. It's a problem. And it needs to be addressed. 5. I have the utmost faith in Fisher during this process of maturity for Shep. If there's anyone who can help Shep work through these issues, it's Fisher. I'm sure he's completely aware of the situation and has a handle on it. 6. If it's OK to point out that Tapley is the ultimate competitor, team player and leader, then it should be OK to point out that Shep has a ways to go and could learn a lot from Chase. That's all. Carry on. Thank you for articulating my thoughts to the fullest.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 13:44:37 GMT -8
Post by johneaztec on Dec 17, 2012 13:44:37 GMT -8
Again, why is everyone so buttsore about a candid observation about the highest-rated recruit in our program's history? So, what's the protocol here? No one gets to say anything about anyone on our team unless it's all cotton candy, rainbows and unicorns? Puh-leeze. A few things to remember if you're one of the fans circling the wagons in knee-jerk fashion: 1. It's perfectly acceptable to be concerned about a player following several observable incidents (don't need to be an insider to see him pulling away from teammates, jawing with the refs and snapping at his coach.) 2. Very few here were expecting Shep to walk into a very talented team, hop into the driver's seat and start flooring it like he's behind the wheel of a Grand Prix race car. That's silly. Just looking at the kid, I don't think he's going to be a force until his junior year. He looks very immature physically. By the time he packs on some muscle and begins working with Fish on his gray matter, he'll be playing on a whole different level -- probably even a lottery pick guy. Kawhi came her and looked like a stud from day one. Dude looked like he was 25. Shep looks like he's 17. Acts like it sometimes, too. It's not a sin. He's just going to need some time. And, BTW, the coaches have told me that he shows flashes of hoops genius in practice frequently. It's just going to be a matter of developing that ability and making it a constant during game time conditions. 3. Some random grumblings on a sports chat board aren't going to drive Shep away and make him transfer. That's silly. It also demonstrates an inflated sense of self purpose for some on this board. 4. Shep IS talking back to his coach, jawing with the refs and pouting. Any observant fan can see this. Don't need to be an insider. It's a problem. And it needs to be addressed. 5. I have the utmost faith in Fisher during this process of maturity for Shep. If there's anyone who can help Shep work through these issues, it's Fisher. I'm sure he's completely aware of the situation and has a handle on it. 6. If it's OK to point out that Tapley is the ultimate competitor, team player and leader, then it should be OK to point out that Shep has a ways to go and could learn a lot from Chase. That's all. Carry on. This. While I have never really liked John and his blind faith in Craft he has a legitimate concern here. He can state his opinions and observations. He isn't clamoring for the kid to be benched or transfer. Exactly. I want Winston to become a number 1 pick in the NBA draft one day. I just really dislike it when players argue with their coach on the court (more than once) and diss their teammates (more than once). He has the best guidance coach in the country, so I'm SURE he'll come around. By the way, thanks for agreeing with me to a degree, but the feeling mutual in terms of the dislike part.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 13:57:50 GMT -8
Post by AZK619 on Dec 17, 2012 13:57:50 GMT -8
Arguing with your coach more than once, and not being receptive to your teammates (nice way to put it) is more than just showing a little emotion. It something that needs to be nipped in the bud. Personally, I NEVER expected a Carmelo like freshman year, actually just an attitude free Freshman year, with some contributions on the defensive end. By his last year here fully expecting him to live up to the hype. How do you have such insight about his attitude? Because of what you see on TV and when your at the games? You have NO CLUE about his relationships with his Coaches or Teammates... I have no clue either because like you, I am on the outside looking in. The only way you could make such statements about the kids attitude and how he is "not receptive to his teammates" is if you were in practices, in the locker room, on the plane to games, in the gym for shoot around, ETC.... If you make such bold statements based on what you see on tv and in your Viejas Seat you truly have no clue... Have you ever played sports competitively? Things happen in the heat of the moment that do not at all reflect how things really are. Well said. You get it.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 14:24:57 GMT -8
Post by aztecswinagain on Dec 17, 2012 14:24:57 GMT -8
How do you have such insight about his attitude? Because of what you see on TV and when your at the games? You have NO CLUE about his relationships with his Coaches or Teammates... I have no clue either because like you, I am on the outside looking in. The only way you could make such statements about the kids attitude and how he is "not receptive to his teammates" is if you were in practices, in the locker room, on the plane to games, in the gym for shoot around, ETC.... If you make such bold statements based on what you see on tv and in your Viejas Seat you truly have no clue... Have you ever played sports competitively? Things happen in the heat of the moment that do not at all reflect how things really are. You're taking it waaaaay too far. I'm talking about how he argues with Fisher, and how he's not receptive to his teammates ON THE COURT AT TIMES. I didn't know I had to spell it out that way. Not in the locker room. It's so friggin obvious that he needs to get these issues under control to become the complete player that I think he will be. It's so obvious that I had no idea there would be this type of backlash. Wow. You don't have to be Einstein to notice it. He's done these things several times ON THE COURT. All I'm saying is, don't argue with Fisher, and don't brush off your teammates AT TIMES. That's it. Work on it. Geeeeeeze. By the way, I've played alot of sports at the upper levels. I'll leave it at that, and actually, I would question you and anybody else if they've played competitive sports before in their life and weren't concerned about it for the kid and their team. The point is that we as fans tend to jump to conclusions and turn things into way bigger deals than they really are. Like little high school girls.. "OMG OMG Winston didn't high five a teammate..How rude he needs to work on that... OMG OMG Winston said something to Coach Fisher after he told him something and I have no idea what exactly was said but his facial expression looked mean.. I cant believe him"
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 14:58:23 GMT -8
Post by jasweaver on Dec 17, 2012 14:58:23 GMT -8
If it is so "obvious" why do you keep bringing it up "listening to you girlie-men cry is both amusing and annoying"
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Post by 78aztec82 on Dec 17, 2012 15:35:20 GMT -8
Please stop. The points were made on page one.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 15:40:14 GMT -8
Post by zed on Dec 17, 2012 15:40:14 GMT -8
Sorry, I thought this thread was about cigarettes
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 22:29:29 GMT -8
Post by johneaztec on Dec 17, 2012 22:29:29 GMT -8
You're taking it waaaaay too far. I'm talking about how he argues with Fisher, and how he's not receptive to his teammates ON THE COURT AT TIMES. I didn't know I had to spell it out that way. Not in the locker room. It's so friggin obvious that he needs to get these issues under control to become the complete player that I think he will be. It's so obvious that I had no idea there would be this type of backlash. Wow. You don't have to be Einstein to notice it. He's done these things several times ON THE COURT. All I'm saying is, don't argue with Fisher, and don't brush off your teammates AT TIMES. That's it. Work on it. Geeeeeeze. By the way, I've played alot of sports at the upper levels. I'll leave it at that, and actually, I would question you and anybody else if they've played competitive sports before in their life and weren't concerned about it for the kid and their team. The point is that we as fans tend to jump to conclusions and turn things into way bigger deals than they really are. Like little high school girls.. "OMG OMG Winston didn't high five a teammate..How rude he needs to work on that... OMG OMG Winston said something to Coach Fisher after he told him something and I have no idea what exactly was said but his facial expression looked mean.. I cant believe him" What a douche. You CLEARLY never played sports at a competitve level. If you did, you would understand that Winston has an issue with his attitude. Don't gloss over it. Talk about jumping to conclusions, and making a bigger deal than what it is. All I did was make an observation, and the non athlete like you finds a reason to make it a non issue. Also Douche, and I don't expect a non athlete to understand this, but a player that ARGUES with a coach has a problem that needs to be addressed. I can't believe that I have to explain it to you. Wait a minute, yes I can. I have to remember that I'm dealing with a non athlete. Ok, I'm good.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 22:33:42 GMT -8
Post by johneaztec on Dec 17, 2012 22:33:42 GMT -8
Please stop. The points were made on page one. Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards I agree with you, and I'm sorry it got out of control. I am, and was just shocked that some posters decided to gloss over the attitude issues with Winston, and make excuses for it. Winston will be great, but he needs to curb the arguing with Fish.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 22:58:55 GMT -8
Post by rebelfanforever45 on Dec 17, 2012 22:58:55 GMT -8
Winston will be good for you guys eventually. But maybe you guys can answer this. I know he has an incident in the off season with having weed on campus. Do you guys feel maybe he still is smoking weed during the season and is just out of it? Again I could be wrong on this but just want to know what you guys think. I saw him play many times at Findlay since I live in Vegas and he was a great player. I woulda thought he would have contributed more to your team to this point.
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Winston
Dec 17, 2012 23:00:41 GMT -8
Post by bschmurda on Dec 17, 2012 23:00:41 GMT -8
Winston will be good for you guys eventually. But maybe you guys can answer this. I know he has an incident in the off season with having weed on campus. Do you guys feel maybe he still is smoking weed during the season and is just out of it? Again I could be wrong on this but just want to know what you guys think. I saw him play many times at Findlay since I live in Vegas and he was a great player. I woulda thought he would have contributed more to your team to this point. hehe
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Winston
Dec 18, 2012 8:33:56 GMT -8
Post by vision on Dec 18, 2012 8:33:56 GMT -8
WEED IS THE DEVIL
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Winston
Dec 18, 2012 8:41:36 GMT -8
Post by jcljorgenson on Dec 18, 2012 8:41:36 GMT -8
There are really two things going on with Winston, one is a perception that he is underachieving as a 5-star prospect and two, that he seems to have some character issues.
In regards to underachieving, I think Fisher knew what he was getting and I recall him even saying that he was "probably a little overhyped" by others. I think Shepard has tons of potential and will eventually be an impact player for us.
With the attitude issues, he is a new guy on the team and fans naturally want to know what they got. They are judging him just like any other player on the team. What they are "seeing" is not good. I believe if fans saw this same kind of attitude from Skylar, Polee, JJ, Shrigs, etc., they would be just as vocal about those players.
Polee, for instance, was the California Player of the Year and voted the preseason MWC Newcomer of the Year. He is not getting very many minutes from Fisher and could easily show an equal attitude, but instead he sucks it up and does his best out on the floor every time.
IMO, the fans do have the right to question Shephard's attitude. But does talking about it on AztecMesa do any good or harm? Who knows, but Shepard needs to be accountable for his own actions.
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