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Post by aztecryan on Jul 14, 2024 19:40:11 GMT -8
I think it's a lot more plausible than being grazed by a bullet. Some of the media blackout at the site is contributing to the delay in information. Yes, getting hit by fragments is more likely to occur, but the initial evidence looks like that didn't occur. Instead, a bullet actually passed a fraction of an inch from killing him. Edit: although I don't think anyone got hit by fragments... I'm not a trauma surgeon or an MD, so I don't know.
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Post by 84aztec96 on Jul 14, 2024 19:46:41 GMT -8
I'm not either, it just looks like it was a bullet and I don't see anyone really reporting otherwise....
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 14, 2024 19:55:49 GMT -8
I'm not either, it just looks like it was a bullet and I don't see anyone really reporting otherwise.... I trust Newsmax, for once, to not lie.
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Post by 84aztec96 on Jul 14, 2024 20:21:22 GMT -8
Sorry to keep on this, but it is so strange to me. Is this the newsmax source? "pennsylvania police sources have told Newsmax they believe President Donald Trump was not struck by a bullet at his Pennsylvania rally but hit by glass fragments instead." www.newsmax.com/politics/police-trump-glass/2024/07/13/id/1172410/Notice they don't name the person or persons in the police force, they just say sources. And they haven't followed up on it, which you would think they would if it was true. Meanwhile, no other sources, Reuters, Fox, CNN, AP, etc are not claiming he didn't get hit by a bullet. And the video evidence looks like he got hit by a bullet. Why would you think otherwise???
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 14, 2024 20:23:43 GMT -8
I'm not either, it just looks like it was a bullet and I don't see anyone really reporting otherwise.... I trust Newsmax, for once, to not lie. Of course you would trust them, THIS time. Sheesh.
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 14, 2024 20:28:05 GMT -8
Sorry to keep on this, but it is so strange to me. Is this the newsmax source? "pennsylvania police sources have told Newsmax they believe President Donald Trump was not struck by a bullet at his Pennsylvania rally but hit by glass fragments instead." www.newsmax.com/politics/police-trump-glass/2024/07/13/id/1172410/Notice they don't name the person or persons in the police force, they just say sources. And they haven't followed up on it, which you would think they would if it was true. Meanwhile, no other sources, Reuters, Fox, CNN, AP, etc are not claiming he didn't get hit by a bullet. And the video evidence looks like he got hit by a bullet. Why would you think otherwise??? Because if it's a bullet it comes across as more serious, and elevates what Trump went through, and many other reasons for him wanting it to be JUST a piece of glass like he said before. Ryan also jumped on the, "It was a fake" theory, because he couldn't stand Trump getting the attention he was getting. He wants it to go away. Basically, just consider the source, and his views.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Jul 14, 2024 21:11:44 GMT -8
Could you assume if it was a round powerfu enough to kill a spectator that the same type round would have done more than pierced Trump's ear it would have shredded it?
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 14, 2024 21:18:43 GMT -8
Could you assume if it was a round powerfu enough to kill a spectator that the same type round would have done more than pierced Trump's ear it would have shredded it? I don't know. I haven't seen the aftermath of the injury to his ear.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 14, 2024 21:28:28 GMT -8
Sorry to keep on this, but it is so strange to me. Is this the newsmax source? "pennsylvania police sources have told Newsmax they believe President Donald Trump was not struck by a bullet at his Pennsylvania rally but hit by glass fragments instead." www.newsmax.com/politics/police-trump-glass/2024/07/13/id/1172410/Notice they don't name the person or persons in the police force, they just say sources. And they haven't followed up on it, which you would think they would if it was true. Meanwhile, no other sources, Reuters, Fox, CNN, AP, etc are not claiming he didn't get hit by a bullet. And the video evidence looks like he got hit by a bullet. Why would you think otherwise??? You're not going to name sources on the record unless they have permission to speak, which is highly unlikely given the high profile nature of the case and the sensitivity of the investigation. They instituted a full blackout after the shooting, moved the media off the site completely. Details are likely to be slow. Nothing in the video confirms a bullet for me. The behavior was very atypical for what you would normally see.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 14, 2024 21:29:17 GMT -8
Sorry to keep on this, but it is so strange to me. Is this the newsmax source? "pennsylvania police sources have told Newsmax they believe President Donald Trump was not struck by a bullet at his Pennsylvania rally but hit by glass fragments instead." www.newsmax.com/politics/police-trump-glass/2024/07/13/id/1172410/Notice they don't name the person or persons in the police force, they just say sources. And they haven't followed up on it, which you would think they would if it was true. Meanwhile, no other sources, Reuters, Fox, CNN, AP, etc are not claiming he didn't get hit by a bullet. And the video evidence looks like he got hit by a bullet. Why would you think otherwise??? Because if it's a bullet it comes across as more serious, and elevates what Trump went through, and many other reasons for him wanting it to be JUST a piece of glass like he said before. Ryan also jumped on the, "It was a fake" theory, because he couldn't stand Trump getting the attention he was getting. He wants it to go away. Basically, just consider the source, and his views. Literally none of this is accurate.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Jul 14, 2024 21:29:23 GMT -8
Well if it was an AR-15 firing 50 to 60 grain 5.56 ammo it may have just tweaked his ear.
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Post by North County Aztec on Jul 15, 2024 6:35:50 GMT -8
Well if it was an AR-15 firing 50 to 60 grain 5.56 ammo it may have just tweaked his ear. I’ve read from several sources that the shooter used an AR, I haven’t seen anywhere stating 5.56 or .223, 55 grain is the most common, because they are less expensive than other grains. You will sacrifice distance with .223 depending on if it is an 8 or 9 twist. 55 grain rounds typically have a higher velocity, they're not always the ideal bullet weight, especially when shooting long distances. The information should be easily obtainable for investigators.
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Post by 84aztec96 on Jul 15, 2024 8:13:36 GMT -8
I understand what you are saying John. I was just curious about Ryan in this particular case.
But I agree, there would be a motivation to minimize what happened to Trump by those that don't like him. I mean just look at some of the headlines from major news organizations!
Anyway, it just looks like a bullet really did graze his ear (We haven't seen ANY evidence that an object was hit that caused shrapnel, I haven't heard of any other spectator being injured by "glass"). He is hit from the side of his face that was facing the back of the audience. Audience reaction is of that of a bullet passing by, not striking an object in front of them. And his ear looks like a bullet passed by and took of a piece of it. And no major news organization is saying otherwise.
I'm just talking, but it really is wild!
After he gets grazed by a bullet that comes within inches of killing him, he fist pumps the audience! That photo of him with blood on his face, fist pumping the audience, with the American flag behind him...Crazy stuff! Honesty, love him or hate him that is pretty bad ass!
If you are anti-trump this is a nightmare! Joe is having, let's just say, difficulty and his opponent is fist pumping a crowd after being shot at and "hit" by a bullet!
Yeah, if I'm anti-trump I would be trying to minimize this big time.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 8:15:21 GMT -8
This is part of the delay.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 8:22:10 GMT -8
I understand what you are saying John. I was just curious about Ryan in this particular case. But I agree, there would be a motivation to minimize what happened to Trump by those that don't like him. I mean just look at some of the headlines from major news organizations! Anyway, it just looks like a bullet really did graze his ear (We haven't seen ANY evidence that an object was hit that caused shrapnel, I haven't heard of any other spectator being injured by "glass"). He is hit from the side of his face that was facing the back of the audience. Audience reaction is of that of a bullet passing by, not striking an object in front of them. And his ear looks like a bullet passed by and took of a piece of it. And no major news organization is saying otherwise. I'm just talking, but it really is wild! After he gets grazed by a bullet that comes within inches of killing him, he fist pumps the audience! That photo of him with blood on his face, fist pumping the audience, with the American flag behind him...Crazy stuff! Honesty, love him or hate him that is pretty bad ass! If you are anti-trump this is a nightmare! Joe is having, let's just say, difficulty and his opponent is fist pumping a crowd after being shot at and "hit" by a bullet! Yeah, if I'm anti-trump I would be trying to minimize this big time. First, I have no motivation to minimize events, my opinion doesn't matter. It's 99.9% crystal clear he was fine from moments after the shooting, people who are shot and bleeding don't pause to get their shoes and to be propped up for photo ops. When I was evacuated from my school at gunpoint, I left everything behind. The goal is to get to safety, not take pictures for a crowd of people. His campaign is threatening anyone who talks with termination. They are on a full blackout, no comms at all. So, we likely won't get confirmation until the medical side steps up, if that happens. There's something very odd about it, but I don't want to go there. I don't find anything "badass" in what he did, but just very strange behavior, both from him and his security detail. I don't think this changes anything in the election in the long-term.
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Post by North County Aztec on Jul 15, 2024 8:58:51 GMT -8
I understand what you are saying John. I was just curious about Ryan in this particular case. But I agree, there would be a motivation to minimize what happened to Trump by those that don't like him. I mean just look at some of the headlines from major news organizations! Anyway, it just looks like a bullet really did graze his ear (We haven't seen ANY evidence that an object was hit that caused shrapnel, I haven't heard of any other spectator being injured by "glass"). He is hit from the side of his face that was facing the back of the audience. Audience reaction is of that of a bullet passing by, not striking an object in front of them. And his ear looks like a bullet passed by and took of a piece of it. And no major news organization is saying otherwise. I'm just talking, but it really is wild! After he gets grazed by a bullet that comes within inches of killing him, he fist pumps the audience! That photo of him with blood on his face, fist pumping the audience, with the American flag behind him...Crazy stuff! Honesty, love him or hate him that is pretty bad ass! If you are anti-trump this is a nightmare! Joe is having, let's just say, difficulty and his opponent is fist pumping a crowd after being shot at and "hit" by a bullet! Yeah, if I'm anti-trump I would be trying to minimize this big time. This is more than badass it is about as close to a Teddy Roosvelt moment as it gets. Roosvelt took a bullet to the chest. Instead of going to the hospital he delivered his 55-page speech. I’d bet if Trump wasn’t ushered away, he would have continued. Contrast that with Joe that can barely put one foot in front of the other. Strength versus weakness, no contest. And it wasn’t inches away from killing Trump it was less than 2 centimeters.
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Post by azson on Jul 15, 2024 9:02:00 GMT -8
This is bad, even by the standards you set with never being able to respond to questions. What has anyone said that hasn't been true, beyond what you want to hear? Your criticism makes no sense.
Here is what has been bothering me for some time. I have been afraid that the anti-Trump rhetoric would cause something like this to happen. Do you find that belief unreasonable? I realize that the rhetoric used in political campaigns can sometimes become pretty extreme. That goes back to the 19th Century. But the rhetoric aimed at Trump has been far worse than that aimed at any other presidential candidate in the 18 campaigns I personally witnessed. (That goes back to 1952, by the way.)
I do not respect Donald Trump, period. I've made that clear many times. But he is not Adolf Hitler, which is what some on the left have said. And he is not an existential threat to democracy in this country. To suggest the latter is absurd and ignores the strength of our democratic institutions. No one man is capable of taking over this country as Hitler did to Germany. There is, nevertheless, plenty of reason to not want DJT in the White House again. But one does not have to resort to the language used against the man. Whether the shooter was inspired by anti-Trump rhetoric cannot be proven at this point. To suggest that such a link is unthinkable is foolish.
Here is a link to a thouthful piece of the comparison of Trump to Hitler.
theconversation.com/trump-hitler-comparisons-too-easy-and-ignore-the-murderous-history-92394
AzWmYour link doesn't have a date but it appears to be from ~2018 based on the references to other articles and the comments section. Here are more up to date looks at the Trump/Hitler comparisons, including one from Godwin himself: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similaritieswww.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/13/how-trumps-rhetoric-compares-hitlers/
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Post by johneaztec on Jul 15, 2024 9:09:13 GMT -8
I understand what you are saying John. I was just curious about Ryan in this particular case. But I agree, there would be a motivation to minimize what happened to Trump by those that don't like him. I mean just look at some of the headlines from major news organizations! Anyway, it just looks like a bullet really did graze his ear (We haven't seen ANY evidence that an object was hit that caused shrapnel, I haven't heard of any other spectator being injured by "glass"). He is hit from the side of his face that was facing the back of the audience. Audience reaction is of that of a bullet passing by, not striking an object in front of them. And his ear looks like a bullet passed by and took of a piece of it. And no major news organization is saying otherwise. I'm just talking, but it really is wild! After he gets grazed by a bullet that comes within inches of killing him, he fist pumps the audience! That photo of him with blood on his face, fist pumping the audience, with the American flag behind him...Crazy stuff! Honesty, love him or hate him that is pretty bad ass! If you are anti-trump this is a nightmare! Joe is having, let's just say, difficulty and his opponent is fist pumping a crowd after being shot at and "hit" by a bullet! Yeah, if I'm anti-trump I would be trying to minimize this big time. Correct, like him or not, Trump took advantage of every moment in that scenario. He's no dummy in that regard. To get up afterwards and pump your fist with blood running down your face after an assassination attempt on you IS pretty badass, no matter who the person is doing it. The optics were stunning in that regard. If Biden did all of that, people would look at him in a different regard and forget about a lot of his health short comings. If anything, it helps Trump in the election. It certainly doesn't hurt. Of course it's an attempt at minimizing the event, basically saying "It was only glass, and not a bullet." "He's fine." That's an easy one.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 9:28:53 GMT -8
I understand what you are saying John. I was just curious about Ryan in this particular case. But I agree, there would be a motivation to minimize what happened to Trump by those that don't like him. I mean just look at some of the headlines from major news organizations! Anyway, it just looks like a bullet really did graze his ear (We haven't seen ANY evidence that an object was hit that caused shrapnel, I haven't heard of any other spectator being injured by "glass"). He is hit from the side of his face that was facing the back of the audience. Audience reaction is of that of a bullet passing by, not striking an object in front of them. And his ear looks like a bullet passed by and took of a piece of it. And no major news organization is saying otherwise. I'm just talking, but it really is wild! After he gets grazed by a bullet that comes within inches of killing him, he fist pumps the audience! That photo of him with blood on his face, fist pumping the audience, with the American flag behind him...Crazy stuff! Honesty, love him or hate him that is pretty bad ass! If you are anti-trump this is a nightmare! Joe is having, let's just say, difficulty and his opponent is fist pumping a crowd after being shot at and "hit" by a bullet! Yeah, if I'm anti-trump I would be trying to minimize this big time. This is more than badass it is about as close to a Teddy Roosvelt moment as it gets. Roosvelt took a bullet to the chest. Instead of going to the hospital he delivered his 55-page speech. I’d bet if Trump wasn’t ushered away, he would have continued. Contrast that with Joe that can barely put one foot in front of the other. Strength versus weakness, no contest. And it wasn’t inches away from killing Trump it was less than 2 centimeters. People who are strong don't use division to run their campaign on. George H.W. Bush flew nearly 60 combat missions in active war, was shot down and floated for hours in the Pacific before being rescued. JFK swam for miles in the ocean to save a crewmate. John McCain was a POW and was tortured by the Vietnamese. Glorification of a draft dodging, hate-spewing, entitled narcissist isn't something I'm going to share in.
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Post by aztecryan on Jul 15, 2024 9:29:17 GMT -8
Your criticism makes no sense.
Here is what has been bothering me for some time. I have been afraid that the anti-Trump rhetoric would cause something like this to happen. Do you find that belief unreasonable? I realize that the rhetoric used in political campaigns can sometimes become pretty extreme. That goes back to the 19th Century. But the rhetoric aimed at Trump has been far worse than that aimed at any other presidential candidate in the 18 campaigns I personally witnessed. (That goes back to 1952, by the way.)
I do not respect Donald Trump, period. I've made that clear many times. But he is not Adolf Hitler, which is what some on the left have said. And he is not an existential threat to democracy in this country. To suggest the latter is absurd and ignores the strength of our democratic institutions. No one man is capable of taking over this country as Hitler did to Germany. There is, nevertheless, plenty of reason to not want DJT in the White House again. But one does not have to resort to the language used against the man. Whether the shooter was inspired by anti-Trump rhetoric cannot be proven at this point. To suggest that such a link is unthinkable is foolish.
Here is a link to a thouthful piece of the comparison of Trump to Hitler.
theconversation.com/trump-hitler-comparisons-too-easy-and-ignore-the-murderous-history-92394
AzWm Your link doesn't have a date but it appears to be from ~2018 based on the references to other articles and the comments section. Here are more up to date looks at the Trump/Hitler comparisons, including one from Godwin himself: www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similaritieswww.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/13/how-trumps-rhetoric-compares-hitlers/You mean William shared a lazy analysis? Color me surprised.
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