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Post by aztecryan on Aug 22, 2024 18:56:29 GMT -8
"You wouldn't last two minutes with Hamas." Really? What's the point? Someone is allowed to criticize Israel (who, again, has funded Hamas for a long, long time) without being labeled an apologist for terrorism. That's what you're doing here. Whether you know Israeli citizens or not means nothing - The people aren't the issue, the power structure is. The never-ending conflict is. War crimes are war crimes, no matter who they are perpetrated by. Neither side is "just" in their actions. Common man..your last few sentences. "The people aren't the issue, the power structure is" "The never-ending conflict is". Do you talk down yo your audience on purpose? Not talking down to you, you're talking down to everyone who disagrees with you (even if it's not about that) by saying outlandish and ridiculous things like "You wouldn't last two minutes with Hamas." What's the point, again? Terrorism is bad, in all forms, by all entities involved. That does not mean, anywhere, that people are excusing the actions of Hamas. There's a gigantic difference that you're overlooking here. Are we allowed to hold Israel to a standard or not? |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 22, 2024 19:23:26 GMT -8
Common man..your last few sentences. "The people aren't the issue, the power structure is" "The never-ending conflict is". Do you talk down yo your audience on purpose? Not talking down to you, you're talking down to everyone who disagrees with you (even if it's not about that) by saying outlandish and ridiculous things like "You wouldn't last two minutes with Hamas." What's the point, again? Terrorism is bad, in all forms, by all entities involved. That does not mean, anywhere, that people are excusing the actions of Hamas. There's a gigantic difference that you're overlooking here. Are we allowed to hold Israel to a standard or not? I said 2 days. |
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 22, 2024 21:43:16 GMT -8
More then some culpability. Alot of the actions that the Israeli military is taking are not military actions. Bombing hospitals, 'safe zones' for refugees who's homes and apartments have been leveled, destroying Gaza's water supplies and power plants, blockading the entry of medical aid and food. These are all war crimes that Israel will have to answer to, that will be written about in history books in the same context as the Rwandan genocide and the Nazi genocide. That was a war crime. Since WWII, we have developed targeted munitions, including bombs and guided missiles. There is literally no need in modern warfare to carpet bomb or firebomb as was done in WWII. Israel has access to targeted munitions. They choose to bomb the $#!+ out of civilian targets in retribution for the war crime committed by Hamas, and because they also generally despise Palestinians and covet the land that Palestinians are on. But why did Hamas kill a bunch of young concert goers and torture and kill hostages?Two wrongs don't make a right? Besides, Israel has killed far more civilians then Hamas has at this point, it's not even remotely close. Also, if you are going to make that parallel and label Hamas as a terrorist group, you need to then label the Israeli government as a Terrorist organization - correct? Or perhaps Fascist would be the better label to use - you choose, but you have to pick one of those two labels. I have worked with, and am friends with, Israeli citizens and I like them. Do you want a cookie? I also have Jewish friends that are very vocally outspoken against the genocide. I also have Palestinian friends. You are allowed to have Israeli friends and be against the genocide that Israel is carrying out. |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 23, 2024 6:04:15 GMT -8
How bout the bombing of Dresden?That was a war crime. Since WWII, we have developed targeted munitions, including bombs and guided missiles. There is literally no need in modern warfare to carpet bomb or firebomb as was done in WWII. Israel has access to targeted munitions. They choose to bomb the $#!+ out of civilian targets in retribution for the war crime committed by Hamas, and because they also generally despise Palestinians and covet the land that Palestinians are on. But why did Hamas kill a bunch of young concert goers and torture and kill hostages?Two wrongs don't make a right? Besides, Israel has killed far more civilians then Hamas has at this point, it's not even remotely close. Also, if you are going to make that parallel and label Hamas as a terrorist group, you need to then label the Israeli government as a Terrorist organization - correct? Or perhaps Fascist would be the better label to use - you choose, but you have to pick one of those two labels. I have worked with, and am friends with, Israeli citizens and I like them. Do you want a cookie? I also have Jewish friends that are very vocally outspoken against the genocide. I also have Palestinian friends. You are allowed to have Israeli friends and be against the genocide that Israel is carrying out. You gloss over the events of October 7th so we have a different viewpoint. You (most likely) are too young to have been watching the Olympics in 1972, but I was. Let's just say the PLO / Hammas have a really poor PR strategy. |
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Post by azson on Aug 23, 2024 8:22:58 GMT -8
More then some culpability. Alot of the actions that the Israeli military is taking are not military actions. Bombing hospitals, 'safe zones' for refugees who's homes and apartments have been leveled, destroying Gaza's water supplies and power plants, blockading the entry of medical aid and food. These are all war crimes that Israel will have to answer to, that will be written about in history books in the same context as the Rwandan genocide and the Nazi genocide. SDSUBALL, this is a serious question. In the history of man, which war was the nicest war? War always involves war crimes. Ever heard of Leutenent Calley? How bout the bombing of Dresden? Societies avoid war for a lot of reasons. I'm not happy with civilian deaths..but why did Hamas kill a bunch of young concert goers and torture and kill hostages? I have worked with, and am friends with, Israeli citizens and I like them. You and Mr. Nasty would last about 2 days with Hamas before you'd be calling for your Mama. By definition, the carpet bombing of Dresden (not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki) was terrorism. You don't get to hide behind "war is hell" when intentionally killing civilians. |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 23, 2024 8:38:45 GMT -8
SDSUBALL, this is a serious question. In the history of man, which war was the nicest war? War always involves war crimes. Ever heard of Leutenent Calley? How bout the bombing of Dresden? Societies avoid war for a lot of reasons. I'm not happy with civilian deaths..but why did Hamas kill a bunch of young concert goers and torture and kill hostages? I have worked with, and am friends with, Israeli citizens and I like them. You and Mr. Nasty would last about 2 days with Hamas before you'd be calling for your Mama. By definition, the carpet bombing of Dresden (not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki) was terrorism. You don't get to hide behind "war is hell" when intentionally killing civilians. Azson, everyone has been predicting that the middle east would blow up for many years. The hatred and emotions on both sides have been brewing for a long time. Are you old enough to have been watching the 1972 Olympics? I am admitting to having a bias towards Isreal. No one is happy with civilian deaths. However, due to the nature of this war, there were going to be civilian deaths...and Hamas knew that. I wish it would end. |
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Post by azson on Aug 23, 2024 8:51:39 GMT -8
By definition, the carpet bombing of Dresden (not to mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki) was terrorism. You don't get to hide behind "war is hell" when intentionally killing civilians. Azson, everyone has been predicting that the middle east would blow up for many years. The hatred and emotions on both sides have been brewing for a long time. Are you old enough to have been watching the 1972 Olympics? I am admitting to having a bias towards Isreal. No one is happy with civilian deaths. However, due to the nature of this war, there were going to be civilian deaths...and Hamas knew that. I wish it would end. I was three years old in '72, but aware of the incident; horrible. So that you get to know a little bit more about what makes me tick: I abhor terrorism, war and violence in general. I started my conscientious objector prepping in '91 during the B$ Gulf War 1. I was in college at the time and taking a rhetoric of Vietnam era class, saw many similarities and was preparing for Bu$h to reinstate the draft. Thankfully that didn't come to pass. I think 99% of wars are B$: wealthy mongers sending poor kids to their death. WW2 would be one of the exceptions, although I would have gone the route of Desmond Doss (Hacksaw Ridge) and refused to carry a gun. |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 23, 2024 9:07:04 GMT -8
Azson, everyone has been predicting that the middle east would blow up for many years. The hatred and emotions on both sides have been brewing for a long time. Are you old enough to have been watching the 1972 Olympics? I am admitting to having a bias towards Isreal. No one is happy with civilian deaths. However, due to the nature of this war, there were going to be civilian deaths...and Hamas knew that. I wish it would end. I was three years old in '72, but aware of the incident; horrible. So that you get to know a little bit more about what makes me tick: I abhor terrorism, war and violence in general. I started my conscientious objector prepping in '91 during the B$ Gulf War 1. I was in college at the time and taking a rhetoric of Vietnam era class, saw many similarities and was preparing for Bu$h to reinstate the draft. Thankfully that didn't come to pass. I think 99% of wars are B$: wealthy mongers sending poor kids to their death. WW2 would be one of the exceptions, although I would have gone the route of Desmond Doss (Hacksaw Ridge) and refused to carry a gun. I missed the Vietnam draft by 6 months. I would have gone to Canada, or back to France first. I actually got a French mandatory military service card in 1973, but could opt out because I had US citizenship by then. We've been lucky to have been born, and live in places, that have been mostly prosperous and stable for quite a few years. Historically, the US has been pretty darn good place to be for the last 100 years. Most of it has been due to resource availability, water and societal structure. Basically, man is not so different. Stability is key. We all know pretty much what happens if you turn off the water and electricity to a dense city after only a few days!! |
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Post by uwphoto on Aug 23, 2024 12:26:06 GMT -8
I was three years old in '72, but aware of the incident; horrible. So that you get to know a little bit more about what makes me tick: I abhor terrorism, war and violence in general. I started my conscientious objector prepping in '91 during the B$ Gulf War 1. I was in college at the time and taking a rhetoric of Vietnam era class, saw many similarities and was preparing for Bu$h to reinstate the draft. Thankfully that didn't come to pass. I think 99% of wars are B$: wealthy mongers sending poor kids to their death. WW2 would be one of the exceptions, although I would have gone the route of Desmond Doss (Hacksaw Ridge) and refused to carry a gun. I missed the Vietnam draft by 6 months. I would have gone to Canada, or back to France first. I actually got a French mandatory military service card in 1973, but could opt out because I had US citizenship by then. We've been lucky to have been born, and live in places, that have been mostly prosperous and stable for quite a few years. Historically, the US has been pretty darn good place to be for the last 100 years. Most of it has been due to resource availability, water and societal structure. Basically, man is not so different. Stability is key. We all know pretty much what happens if you turn off the water and electricity to a dense city after only a few days!! I would like to amend my post to post 1964 for obvious reasons. |
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 29, 2024 9:27:07 GMT -8
I was three years old in '72, but aware of the incident; horrible. So that you get to know a little bit more about what makes me tick: I abhor terrorism, war and violence in general. I started my conscientious objector prepping in '91 during the B$ Gulf War 1. I was in college at the time and taking a rhetoric of Vietnam era class, saw many similarities and was preparing for Bu$h to reinstate the draft. Thankfully that didn't come to pass. I think 99% of wars are B$: wealthy mongers sending poor kids to their death. WW2 would be one of the exceptions, although I would have gone the route of Desmond Doss (Hacksaw Ridge) and refused to carry a gun. I missed the Vietnam draft by 6 months. I would have gone to Canada, or back to France first. I actually got a French mandatory military service card in 1973, but could opt out because I had US citizenship by then. We've been lucky to have been born, and live in places, that have been mostly prosperous and stable for quite a few years. Historically, the US has been pretty darn good place to be for the last 100 years. Most of it has been due to resource availability, water and societal structure. Basically, man is not so different. Stability is key. We all know pretty much what happens if you turn off the water and electricity to a dense city after only a few days!! Yes but, you also know what happens when you blockade a country for a decade and a half, right? The US Japan oil embargo that preceded Pearl Harbor looks like peanuts compared to what Israel did to Palestinians with their blocking of trade routes and land/sea entry and exit from 2009 until today. You can't just focus on Hamas terrorism but not examine Israeli cruelty. |
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 29, 2024 9:30:24 GMT -8
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2024 9:36:17 GMT -8
I missed the Vietnam draft by 6 months. I would have gone to Canada, or back to France first. I actually got a French mandatory military service card in 1973, but could opt out because I had US citizenship by then. We've been lucky to have been born, and live in places, that have been mostly prosperous and stable for quite a few years. Historically, the US has been pretty darn good place to be for the last 100 years. Most of it has been due to resource availability, water and societal structure. Basically, man is not so different. Stability is key. We all know pretty much what happens if you turn off the water and electricity to a dense city after only a few days!! Yes but, you also know what happens when you blockade a country for a decade and a half, right? The US Japan oil embargo that preceded Pearl Harbor looks like peanuts compared to what Israel did to Palestinians with their blocking of trade routes and land/sea entry and exit from 2009 until today. You can't just focus on Hamas terrorism but not examine Israeli cruelty. Apparently, Israel implemented these actions because of fear that Hamas would infiltrate they're Country. Maybe it's extreme, I don't know, but the recent invasion by Hamas may prove them correct in implementing these actions. I don't know enough about it, and maybe these actions are extreme, but if Hamas was not in control on that side, then the blockades would not be necessary. It's too bad Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians. I don't think they have their best interest, to say the least. |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2024 9:37:01 GMT -8
Yes but, you also know what happens when you blockade a country for a decade and a half, right? The US Japan oil embargo that preceded Pearl Harbor looks like peanuts compared to what Israel did to Palestinians with their blocking of trade routes and land/sea entry and exit from 2009 until today. You can't just focus on Hamas terrorism but not examine Israeli cruelty. Apparently, Israel implemented these actions because of fear that Hamas would infiltrate they're Country. Maybe it's extreme, I don't know, but the recent invasion by Hamas may prove them correct in implementing these actions. I don't know enough about it, and maybe these actions are extreme, but if Hamas was not in control on that side, then the blockades would not be necessary. It's too bad Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians. I don't think they have their best interest, to say the least. Who. Funded. Hamas. |
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2024 9:41:58 GMT -8
Apparently, Israel implemented these actions because of fear that Hamas would infiltrate they're Country. Maybe it's extreme, I don't know, but the recent invasion by Hamas may prove them correct in implementing these actions. I don't know enough about it, and maybe these actions are extreme, but if Hamas was not in control on that side, then the blockades would not be necessary. It's too bad Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians. I don't think they have their best interest, to say the least. Who. Funded. Hamas. Nobody. Made. Them. Do. It. They. Decided. To. Attack. No. One. Forced. Them. To. Invade. |
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 29, 2024 10:03:02 GMT -8
Yes but, you also know what happens when you blockade a country for a decade and a half, right? The US Japan oil embargo that preceded Pearl Harbor looks like peanuts compared to what Israel did to Palestinians with their blocking of trade routes and land/sea entry and exit from 2009 until today. You can't just focus on Hamas terrorism but not examine Israeli cruelty. Apparently, Israel implemented these actions because of fear that Hamas would infiltrate they're Country. Maybe it's extreme, I don't know, but the recent invasion by Hamas may prove them correct in implementing these actions. I don't know enough about it, and maybe these actions are extreme, but if Hamas was not in control on that side, then the blockades would not be necessary. It's too bad Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians. I don't think they have their best interest, to say the least. Well, basically you can't have it both ways. Either - Israel and Gaza <were not> at war from the 2000's until October 2024. In that case, the blockade violates the Geneva Convention and is illegal. Or - Israel and Gaza have been 'at war' from the 2000's until 2024. In that argument, Israel and Hamas's exchanges of rocket and mortar fire are military actions - not terrorism by either side. In that case, the October 2024 attack by Hamas was a military battle, and it was a war crime when they killed civilians and took civilian hostages. But you can't defend the blockade without also changing the context of Hamas's actions to military actions, because a blockade is a military action. |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2024 10:14:16 GMT -8
Nobody. Made. Them. Do. It. They. Decided. To. Attack. No. One. Forced. Them. To. Invade. Like most topics, you're out of your depth here. |
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 29, 2024 10:21:00 GMT -8
Yes but, you also know what happens when you blockade a country for a decade and a half, right? The US Japan oil embargo that preceded Pearl Harbor looks like peanuts compared to what Israel did to Palestinians with their blocking of trade routes and land/sea entry and exit from 2009 until today. You can't just focus on Hamas terrorism but not examine Israeli cruelty. Apparently, Israel implemented these actions because of fear that Hamas would infiltrate they're Country. Maybe it's extreme, I don't know, but the recent invasion by Hamas may prove them correct in implementing these actions. I don't know enough about it, and maybe these actions are extreme, but if Hamas was not in control on that side, then the blockades would not be necessary. It's too bad Hamas was voted in by the Palestinians. I don't think they have their best interest, to say the least. The issue that I have is that the US media often label Hamas's actions - such as shooting rockets or mortar's at Israel, and the October 2024 attack - as terrorism. It's not terrorism if the blockade is 'legal'. The media often labels Hamas as the bad guy, when Israel has been enforcing a military blockade for two decades, which makes them the aggressor in the conflict. The conflict is analogous to a big brother sitting on his little brother. The little brother talked $#!+, so the big brother has been sitting on him for the past 20 minutes. The big brother won't get off of him, and there are no parents to intervene, so eventually the little brother hits the big brother in the nuts so he can stand up. Then the big brother starts beating the $#!+ out of him. Now the little brother is unconscious. That's where we are at right now with this conflict. Acting like Hamas is the bad guy, and Israel is saintly, is absurd. |
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2024 10:22:54 GMT -8
Nobody. Made. Them. Do. It. They. Decided. To. Attack. No. One. Forced. Them. To. Invade. Like most topics, you're out of your depth here. Is that all you've got? Come on now. You mean like you're wrong three quarters of the time across this board. I'll take criticism and advice from someone other than you, that's for sure. It's pretty much meaningless coming from you, and your track record here. |
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 29, 2024 10:31:27 GMT -8
Like most topics, you're out of your depth here. Is that all you've got? Come on now. You mean like you're wrong three quarters of the time across this board. I'll take criticism and advice from someone other than you, that's for sure. It's pretty much meaningless coming from you, and your track record here. Three quarters of the time? Lol. Okay. Right. (It's not about being right, for what it's worth, it's about being accurate and at least trying to make a faithful argument.) Well, coming from someone who doesn't even pay attention to what day it is, I'm pretty confident I'm on the right side of history here. Instead of making personal attacks on me, you should put yourself to work and do some research on this topic. Netanyahu (the guy in charge is Israel) has been bankrolling Hamas for a long time. He needs Hamas to keep his power structure in place. That's why he's continuing to finance Hamas while simultaneously continuing the war. Hamas acts as a buffer that denies a two-state solution. www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.htmlThis is widely known. |
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Post by johneaztec on Aug 29, 2024 10:37:07 GMT -8
Is that all you've got? Come on now. You mean like you're wrong three quarters of the time across this board. I'll take criticism and advice from someone other than you, that's for sure. It's pretty much meaningless coming from you, and your track record here. Three quarters of the time? Lol. Okay. Right. (It's not about being right, for what it's worth, it's about being accurate and at least trying to make a faithful argument.) Well, coming from someone who doesn't even pay attention to what day it is, I'm pretty confident I'm on the right side of history here. Instead of making personal attacks on me, you should put yourself to work and do some research on this topic. Netanyahu (the guy in charge is Israel) has been bankrolling Hamas for a long time. He needs Hamas to keep his power structure in place. That's why he's continuing to finance Hamas while simultaneously continuing the war. Hamas acts as a buffer that denies a two-state solution. www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.htmlThis is widely known. I'll stop when you do. Such as, "You don't know what you're talking about." "You're out of your league." Practice what you preach, bud. I only retaliate. Like I said before, nobody forced Hamas to invade in October. THEY still performed the action. |
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