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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 19, 2024 17:36:06 GMT -8
Ryan asked this . . .
Now, will you address the attacks on refugees that were directly displaced?
I do not have all the facts regarding this assertation. Sources which are anti-Israel are not, in my view, enough for me to reach the conclusion that said charges are true. I will say this, though. Anti-Israeli terrorist groups have attacked Israel dozens of times and have no intention of giving up their stated goal of destroying Israel. Until they change their attitude, no lasting peace in that area will ever be achieved.
Now, there are some of my question that YOU have failed to answer . . .
If attacked, does it (i.e. , Israel have a right to defend itself? And if the answer to that second question is "yes", does Israel have the right to decide on its manner of self-defense, or must it first get the approval of foreign politicians?
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What was Oct. 7? A legitimate military action against a military target? Please answer that question.
Your attitude in this whole discussion has, it seems to me, been very pro-Hamas (and by extension pro Iran and its other proxy anti-Israeli groups). I'm waiting for a post by you expressing any sympathy whatsoever for Israel. You do understand that Israel's military actions in Gaza would not have happened without the horrific terrorist attack of Oct. 7th, do you not? AzWm
Starving civilians are not military actions. Starving civilians is genocide, and it equivalent to what Nazi Germany did in WWII. Stop defending fascism. Accusing Israel of being the same as Nazi Germany is contemptable. More to the point, where is the condemnation of Hamas, as well as other Iran-backed entities who seek the destruction of Israel? Again, I ask, what was Israel supposed to do as a response to the Oct. 7th terrorist attack?
It is obvious that Hamas has counted on many Gazans being killed so that gullible Westerners (or pro-Hamas sympathizers) would blame Israel. You cannot be so ignorant that you do not know that Hamas created hundreds of miles of tunnels, many located under civilian areas. Those tunnels have been used to store weapons and ammunition to be used to kill Israelis. Was Israel supposed to ignore those tunnels?
"The tunnel shafts were located in civilian areas, many of which were near or inside civilian buildings and structures, such as schools, kindergartens, mosques and playgrounds," www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-says-it-uncovered-800-shafts-hamas-tunnels-below-gaza-2023-12-03/
It is well to remember that the huge amounts of money used to prepare for terrorist attacks on Israel should instead have been used to help improve the lives of those who live in Gaza.
Again, and for the umpteenth time, I ask those who sympathize with terrorist attacks on Israel to respond to my belief that those who now seek the destruction of Israel must denounce that goal if they truly want the best for the Palestinian people. This reminds me of a marvelous quote from Golda Meir:
We can forgive [the Arabs] for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with [the Arabs] when they love their children more than they hate us...
AzWm
PS: I would also like to reiterate what I posted once before. If the Palestinian goal of destroying Israel ever got close to success, Israel has the means of bringing the conflict to a terrible end point.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 19, 2024 18:05:35 GMT -8
Starving civilians are not military actions. Starving civilians is genocide, and it equivalent to what Nazi Germany did in WWII. Stop defending fascism. Accusing Israel of being the same as Nazi Germany is contemptable. More to the point, where is the condemnation of Hamas, as well as other Iran-backed entities who seek the destruction of Israel? Again, I ask, what was Israel supposed to do as a response to the Oct. 7th terrorist attack?
It is obvious that Hamas has counted on many Gazans being killed so that gullible Westerners (or pro-Hamas sympathizers) would blame Israel. You cannot be so ignorant that you do not know that Hamas created hundreds of miles of tunnels, many located under civilian areas. Those tunnels have been used to store weapons and ammunition to be used to kill Israelis. Was Israel supposed to ignore those tunnels?
"The tunnel shafts were located in civilian areas, many of which were near or inside civilian buildings and structures, such as schools, kindergartens, mosques and playgrounds," www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-says-it-uncovered-800-shafts-hamas-tunnels-below-gaza-2023-12-03/
It is well to remember that the huge amounts of money used to prepare for terrorist attacks on Israel should instead have been used to help improve the lives of those who live in Gaza.
Again, and for the umpteenth time, I ask those who sympathize with terrorist attacks on Israel to respond to my belief that those who now seek the destruction of Israel must denounce that goal if they truly want the best for the Palestinian people. This reminds me of a marvelous quote from Golda Meir:
We can forgive [the Arabs] for killing our children. We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children. We will only have peace with [the Arabs] when they love their children more than they hate us...
AzWm
PS: I would also like to reiterate what I posted once before. If the Palestinian goal of destroying Israel ever got close to success, Israel has the means of bringing the conflict to a terrible end point.Who funded Hamas?
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 19, 2024 18:10:08 GMT -8
Ryan asked Who funded Hamas?
Mostly Iran, I would say. You are not suggesting that Israel caused Hamas to slaughter Israelis on Oct. 7th are you?
Oh, yes. When are you going to answer my question? What should Israel has done in response to Oct. 7th.?
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 19, 2024 18:16:16 GMT -8
Ryan asked Who funded Hamas?
Mostly Iran, I would say. You are not suggesting that Israel caused Hamas to slaughter Israelis on Oct. 7th are you?
Oh, yes. When are you going to answer my question? What should Israel has done in response to Oct. 7th.?
AzWm Mostly wrong, you could say. This has already been answered, but Netanyahu and Israel have funded Hamas for years. theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/I've already answered your question. The answer is to not to murder civilians with reckless disregard for human rights.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 8:58:19 GMT -8
Ryan asked Who funded Hamas?
Mostly Iran, I would say. You are not suggesting that Israel caused Hamas to slaughter Israelis on Oct. 7th are you?
Oh, yes. When are you going to answer my question? What should Israel has done in response to Oct. 7th.?
AzWm Mostly wrong, you could say. This has already been answered, but Netanyahu and Israel have funded Hamas for years. theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/I've already answered your question. The answer is to not to murder civilians with reckless disregard for human rights. That is NOT, repeat, NOT an answer to my question. Why can you not answer the question? Is it because you believe Israel should have done NOTHING?
Perhaps you do not care to deal with the facts of the Oct. 7th massacre of Israelis? Maybe we should just forget what happened.
It's getting harder and harder for me to ignore the way you, and others, seem to brush aside what Hammas did on Oct. 7th.
With respect to who has funded Hamas, why can you not admit that Iran, not Israel, is the principal source of that terrorist groups financing?
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 20, 2024 9:05:57 GMT -8
That is NOT, repeat, NOT an answer to my question. Why can you not answer the question? Is it because you believe Israel should have done NOTHING?
Perhaps you do not care to deal with the facts of the Oct. 7th massacre of Israelis? Maybe we should just forget what happened.
It's getting harder and harder for me to ignore the way you, and others, seem to brush aside what Hammas did on Oct. 7th.
With respect to who has funded Hamas, why can you not admit that Iran, not Israel, is the principal source of that terrorist groups financing?
AzWm Because it's false. Pretty simple. Netanyahu directly funded Hamas and propped them up for years to prevent a two-state process. I know it's not what you want to hear, but the truth is often difficult.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 20, 2024 12:02:54 GMT -8
That is NOT, repeat, NOT an answer to my question. Why can you not answer the question? Is it because you believe Israel should have done NOTHING?
Perhaps you do not care to deal with the facts of the Oct. 7th massacre of Israelis? Maybe we should just forget what happened.
It's getting harder and harder for me to ignore the way you, and others, seem to brush aside what Hammas did on Oct. 7th.
With respect to who has funded Hamas, why can you not admit that Iran, not Israel, is the principal source of that terrorist groups financing?
AzWm Israel could have invaded without doing the following:Bombing refugee camps Shooting mortars at Palestinians fishing on the beach Murdering over 100 journalists Starving civilians Raping Palestinians, forcing Palestinians to defecate and urinate on themselves, starving Palestinians in detention camps Murdering Palestinians in hospitals Exhuming Palestinian graves Stealing Palestinian organs from the recently deceased without relatives consent Leveling Palestinian universities and hospitals Shooting Palestinians, then waiting for paramedics to come and killing the paramedics Shooting at Palestinian children and pregnant women Defecating in and destroying Palestinian wells and water treatment facilities Nobody threw up their arms when Israel initially invaded. If Israel was treating this like a normal military conflict, people like me wouldn't be complaining. I did not complain when they initially invaded. I am not a Hamas sympathizer.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 12:28:55 GMT -8
That is NOT, repeat, NOT an answer to my question. Why can you not answer the question? Is it because you believe Israel should have done NOTHING?
Perhaps you do not care to deal with the facts of the Oct. 7th massacre of Israelis? Maybe we should just forget what happened.
It's getting harder and harder for me to ignore the way you, and others, seem to brush aside what Hammas did on Oct. 7th.
With respect to who has funded Hamas, why can you not admit that Iran, not Israel, is the principal source of that terrorist groups financing?
AzWm Israel could have invaded without doing the following:Bombing refugee camps Shooting mortars at Palestinians fishing on the beach Murdering over 100 journalists Starving civilians Raping Palestinians, forcing Palestinians to defecate and urinate on themselves, starving Palestinians in detention camps Murdering Palestinians in hospitals Exhuming Palestinian graves Stealing Palestinian organs from the recently deceased without relatives consent Leveling Palestinian universities and hospitals Shooting Palestinians, then waiting for paramedics to come and killing the paramedics Shooting at Palestinian children and pregnant women Defecating in and destroying Palestinian wells and water treatment facilities Nobody threw up their arms when Israel initially invaded. If Israel was treating this like a normal military conflict, people like me wouldn't be complaining. I did not complain when they initially invaded. I am not a Hamas sympathizer.
These are lies, despite what pro-Palestinian sources say.
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 20, 2024 12:32:27 GMT -8
Israel could have invaded without doing the following:Bombing refugee camps Shooting mortars at Palestinians fishing on the beach Murdering over 100 journalists Starving civilians Raping Palestinians, forcing Palestinians to defecate and urinate on themselves, starving Palestinians in detention camps Murdering Palestinians in hospitals Exhuming Palestinian graves Stealing Palestinian organs from the recently deceased without relatives consent Leveling Palestinian universities and hospitals Shooting Palestinians, then waiting for paramedics to come and killing the paramedics Shooting at Palestinian children and pregnant women Defecating in and destroying Palestinian wells and water treatment facilities Nobody threw up their arms when Israel initially invaded. If Israel was treating this like a normal military conflict, people like me wouldn't be complaining. I did not complain when they initially invaded. I am not a Hamas sympathizer.
These are lies, despite what pro-Palestinian sources say.
AzWm"Anything I don't agree with is a lie." "Anything I agree with is the truth." Rinse. Repeat.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 12:46:56 GMT -8
That is NOT, repeat, NOT an answer to my question. Why can you not answer the question? Is it because you believe Israel should have done NOTHING?
Perhaps you do not care to deal with the facts of the Oct. 7th massacre of Israelis? Maybe we should just forget what happened.
It's getting harder and harder for me to ignore the way you, and others, seem to brush aside what Hammas did on Oct. 7th.
With respect to who has funded Hamas, why can you not admit that Iran, not Israel, is the principal source of that terrorist groups financing?
AzWm Because it's false. Pretty simple. Netanyahu directly funded Hamas and propped them up for years to prevent a two-state process. I know it's not what you want to hear, but the truth is often difficult. Let's decipher what you have said. Israel is to blame for Oct. 7th, have I got that right? Is that what you think? Let's take that line of reasoning a bit further. Israel was hoping for a horrific attack on its own people to give it a reason to commit war crimes against the people of Gaza.
In addition, it was hoping that those crimes would cause massive anti-Israeli (and massive antisemitic) demonstrations against Israel. Okay, here I am having trouble figuring out what you really think. Tell me what Israel thought it would gain by having a large portion of the world calling for anti-Israeli sanctions.
As for the two-state solution, only the extremely naive think that such a plan has, or in truth ever had, a chance of becoming a reality. Hamas, et al, have only one solution in mind. That is the extermination of the state of Israel. That is their one-state solution. If you cannot understand that, you are way, way less intelligent than what I had believed.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 13:03:45 GMT -8
These are lies, despite what pro-Palestinian sources say.
AzWm "Anything I don't agree with is a lie." "Anything I agree with is the truth." Rinse. Repeat. I admit I have personally never been to Israel. Still, everything I know about Israel, formed by roughly 70 plus years of experience, tells me that said nation holds values that would prohibit it from doing any of the horrific things that some charge it with.
Tell me, what is YOUR view of Israel? What has brought you to the conclusion that it is a state with values toward human life rivalling those of Nazi Germany?
I am still waiting for you to condemn Hamas (et. al) for its countless acts of horrific terrorism against Israel.
And I believe you have not answered (bad faith perhaps) my question regarding what Israel should have done as a response to Oct. 7th. I did not ask what they should not have done, but what they should have done.
AzWm
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 20, 2024 13:04:03 GMT -8
Because it's false. Pretty simple. Netanyahu directly funded Hamas and propped them up for years to prevent a two-state process. I know it's not what you want to hear, but the truth is often difficult. Let's decipher what you have said. Israel is to blame for Oct. 7th, have I got that right? Is that what you think? Let's take that line of reasoning a bit further. Israel was hoping for a horrific attack on its own people to give it a reason to commit war crimes against the people of Gaza.
In addition, it was hoping that those crimes would cause massive anti-Israeli (and massive antisemitic) demonstrations against Israel. Okay, here I am having trouble figuring out what you really think. Tell me what Israel thought it would gain by having a large portion of the world calling for anti-Israeli sanctions.
As for the two-state solution, only the extremely naive think that such a plan has, or in truth ever had, a chance of becoming a reality. Hamas, et al, have only one solution in mind. That is the extermination of the state of Israel. That is their one-state solution. If you cannot understand that, you are way, way less intelligent than what I had believed.
AzWm
Are you functionally capable of actually representing information faithfully? On any topic? I'm having serious doubts. I don't think Israel needs any motivation, they've had it for years. www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/Yeah, my intelligence is not the problem here. But I do appreciate the humor. You have a clear agenda, it's not about facts, so there's no need to engage.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 20, 2024 13:08:02 GMT -8
"Anything I don't agree with is a lie." "Anything I agree with is the truth." Rinse. Repeat. I admit I have personally been to Israel. Still, everything I know about Israel, formed by roughly 70 plus years of experience, tells me that said nation holds values that would prohibit it from doing any of the horrific things that some charge it with.
Tell me, what is YOUR view of Israel? What has brought you to the conclusion that it is a state with values toward human life rivalling those of Nazi Germany?
I am still waiting for you to condemn Hamas (et. al) for its countless acts of horrific terrorism against Israel.
And I believe you have not answered (bad faith perhaps) my question regarding what Israel should have done as a response to Oct. 7th. I did not ask what they should not have done, but what they should have done.
AzWmThe worthless hyperbole is not necessary. Neither is the dramatic twisting of irrelevant statements like comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Your default setting needs to be tweaked. Facts are facts, we should stick to them. I have answered your question, multiple times now. Until you can come back to this planet without extreme bias, disregard for the truth and actual knowledge of what you're speaking of, I don't feel obligated to do anything else. And for the record, during one of your disappearing acts, I've already condemned Hamas multiple times. Your stance is unserious and borders on absurd. "Anyone who disagrees with me is a Hamas sympathizer" is the epitome of low-hanging fruit. It's a theme that you've generated throughout this subforum.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 13:41:14 GMT -8
Let's decipher what you have said. Israel is to blame for Oct. 7th, have I got that right? Is that what you think? Let's take that line of reasoning a bit further. Israel was hoping for a horrific attack on its own people to give it a reason to commit war crimes against the people of Gaza.
In addition, it was hoping that those crimes would cause massive anti-Israeli (and massive antisemitic) demonstrations against Israel. Okay, here I am having trouble figuring out what you really think. Tell me what Israel thought it would gain by having a large portion of the world calling for anti-Israeli sanctions.
As for the two-state solution, only the extremely naive think that such a plan has, or in truth ever had, a chance of becoming a reality. Hamas, et al, have only one solution in mind. That is the extermination of the state of Israel. That is their one-state solution. If you cannot understand that, you are way, way less intelligent than what I had believed.
AzWm
Are you functionally capable of actually representing information faithfully? On any topic? I'm having serious doubts. I don't think Israel needs any motivation, they've had it for years. www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/Yeah, my intelligence is not the problem here. But I do appreciate the humor. You have a clear agenda, it's not about facts, so there's no need to engage. You were really fast on the response. So fast that you may not have noticed that I had to correct what I said. Namely I have NEVER been to Israel.
My agenda? To speak up for the truth.
Your latest post is interesting. I have asked you to comment on Hamas's terrorist attack on Oct. 7th. Instead of a vigorous condemnation of the Hamas terrorism, you suggest that the whole thing was Israel's fault. Well, actually Netanyahu's fault for supporting Hamas as part of his strategy to deal with the Palestinians. I read the article you linked. Very interesting.
You find fault with Netanyahu's strategy of supporting Hamas. That is a reasonable position, no doubt. But nothing in the article suggests that Hamas was not at fault for Dec. 7th. The basic fact remains, those who until recently have controlled Gaza, have as their basic goal the destruction if Israel. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have been silent on that fact.
I do not take the attitude that Israel is without blame. In complicated geo-political issues, seldom is one side without blame. But this is an issue in which only one side has the explicit goal of destroying the other. I just do not get the impression that you agree with that idea in this case.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 13:42:40 GMT -8
I admit I have personally been to Israel. Still, everything I know about Israel, formed by roughly 70 plus years of experience, tells me that said nation holds values that would prohibit it from doing any of the horrific things that some charge it with.
Tell me, what is YOUR view of Israel? What has brought you to the conclusion that it is a state with values toward human life rivalling those of Nazi Germany?
I am still waiting for you to condemn Hamas (et. al) for its countless acts of horrific terrorism against Israel.
And I believe you have not answered (bad faith perhaps) my question regarding what Israel should have done as a response to Oct. 7th. I did not ask what they should not have done, but what they should have done.
AzWm The worthless hyperbole is not necessary. Neither is the dramatic twisting of irrelevant statements like comparing Israel to Nazi Germany. Your default setting needs to be tweaked. Facts are facts, we should stick to them. I have answered your question, multiple times now. Until you can come back to this planet without extreme bias, disregard for the truth and actual knowledge of what you're speaking of, I don't feel obligated to do anything else. And for the record, during one of your disappearing acts, I've already condemned Hamas multiple times. Your stance is unserious and borders on absurd. " Anyone who disagrees with me is a Hamas sympathizer" is the epitome of low-hanging fruit. It's a theme that you've generated throughout this subforum. Oh, boy. There you go again. I never said any such thing.
AzWm
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 13:57:49 GMT -8
Ryan, what should Israel have done as a response to Oct. 7th? I cannot understand why that question is hard to answer. Okay, maybe it is hard to answer in the sense that you may not really have a good idea of what Israel should have done. That would have been an acceptable answer to the question. But to just criticize Israel for what it DID do instead of stating what it should have done does not satisfy me.
To be honest, I am not sure what the right answer is. To have done nothing more than issue strongly worded statements would not have pleased anyone other than Hamas and that group's supporters. The problem is that taking military action of any kind would have created the kind of anti-Israel sentiment that we have seen. If even only one Gazan had been killed, Israel would have been accused of war crimes. You can bet on that.
AzWm
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 20, 2024 14:18:58 GMT -8
Ryan, what should Israel have done as a response to Oct. 7th? I cannot understand why that question is hard to answer. Okay, maybe it is hard to answer in the sense that you may not really have a good idea of what Israel should have done. That would have been an acceptable answer to the question. But to just criticize Israel for what it DID do instead of stating what it should have done does not satisfy me.
To be honest, I am not sure what the right answer is. To have done nothing more than issue strongly worded statements would not have pleased anyone other than Hamas and that group's supporters. The problem is that taking military action of any kind would have created the kind of anti-Israel sentiment that we have seen. If even only one Gazan had been killed, Israel would have been accused of war crimes. You can bet on that.
AzWm I like how when I provided an answer to your question, acknowledging that Israel should invade (but not commit the atrocities that they did), your response is that they did not commit the atrocities - and then you continue to press Ryan for a response to the same question. You're saying that my sources are pro-Palestine. I have provided several sources that are neutral or dare I even say leaning towards Israel - sources like ABC, New York Times, Reuters. Some of the atrocities are plain as black and white. There are photographs of the before and after of Palestinian universities and hospitals. These are irrefutable. There are photographs of dead journalists with "PRESS" in giant letters on the backs of their vests. Why would Israel kill so many journalists? Perhaps because they are attempting to cover up horrible atrocities.
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Post by sdsuball on Aug 20, 2024 14:21:01 GMT -8
Ryan, what should Israel have done as a response to Oct. 7th? I cannot understand why that question is hard to answer. Okay, maybe it is hard to answer in the sense that you may not really have a good idea of what Israel should have done. That would have been an acceptable answer to the question. But to just criticize Israel for what it DID do instead of stating what it should have done does not satisfy me.
To be honest, I am not sure what the right answer is. To have done nothing more than issue strongly worded statements would not have pleased anyone other than Hamas and that group's supporters. The problem is that taking military action of any kind would have created the kind of anti-Israel sentiment that we have seen. If even only one Gazan had been killed, Israel would have been accused of war crimes. You can bet on that.
AzWm You're aware that Israel is being tried for war crimes by the international courts, correct? Are they biased towards Palestine too?
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 20, 2024 14:23:52 GMT -8
You were really fast on the response. So fast that you may not have noticed that I had to correct what I said. Namely I have NEVER been to Israel.
My agenda? To speak up for the truth.
Your latest post is interesting. I have asked you to comment on Hamas's terrorist attack on Oct. 7th. Instead of a vigorous condemnation of the Hamas terrorism, you suggest that the whole thing was Israel's fault. Well, actually Netanyahu's fault for supporting Hamas as part of his strategy to deal with the Palestinians. I read the article you linked. Very interesting.
You find fault with Netanyahu's strategy of supporting Hamas. That is a reasonable position, no doubt. But nothing in the article suggests that Hamas was not at fault for Dec. 7th. The basic fact remains, those who until recently have controlled Gaza, have as their basic goal the destruction if Israel. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have been silent on that fact.
I do not take the attitude that Israel is without blame. In complicated geo-political issues, seldom is one side without blame. But this is an issue in which only one side has the explicit goal of destroying the other. I just do not get the impression that you agree with that idea in this case.
AzWm It doesn't take long to type a response when you know what's coming. I don't feel the need to really placate to your wishes. I'm not talking about October 7th, which you're so incredibly hung up on. It's an extension of an existing conflict. That doesn't excuse the war crimes Israel has engaged in.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 20, 2024 16:23:45 GMT -8
You were really fast on the response. So fast that you may not have noticed that I had to correct what I said. Namely I have NEVER been to Israel.
My agenda? To speak up for the truth.
Your latest post is interesting. I have asked you to comment on Hamas's terrorist attack on Oct. 7th. Instead of a vigorous condemnation of the Hamas terrorism, you suggest that the whole thing was Israel's fault. Well, actually Netanyahu's fault for supporting Hamas as part of his strategy to deal with the Palestinians. I read the article you linked. Very interesting.
You find fault with Netanyahu's strategy of supporting Hamas. That is a reasonable position, no doubt. But nothing in the article suggests that Hamas was not at fault for Dec. 7th. The basic fact remains, those who until recently have controlled Gaza, have as their basic goal the destruction if Israel. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have been silent on that fact.
I do not take the attitude that Israel is without blame. In complicated geo-political issues, seldom is one side without blame. But this is an issue in which only one side has the explicit goal of destroying the other. I just do not get the impression that you agree with that idea in this case.
AzWm It doesn't take long to type a response when you know what's coming. I don't feel the need to really placate to your wishes. I'm not talking about October 7th, which you're so incredibly hung up on. It's an extension of an existing conflict. That doesn't excuse the war crimes Israel has engaged in. As for war crimes, virtually every attack on Israel qualifies as a war crime. If Israel is guilty of committing war crimes, what punishment does it deserve?
Yes, it's an existing conflict. But it's a conflict with a beginning. Let's not forget that it was the Arab nations that started the war in 1948. As I have said, I do not say that Israel cannot be criticized. What I do say is that the Palestinians (the Arab nations that several times were at war with Israel are pretty much out of the fight now) have as their stated goal the extinction of the state of Israel. It is hard for me to understand why you downplay or outright ignore that fact.
Let me put it to you. Do you or do you not concede that the extinction of Israel is the stated goal of Hamas, etc.? It's a pretty straight forward question. From the river to the sea should give you a clue.
As long as I am asking questions, here is another. Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist in its present form?
AzWm
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