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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 8:54:50 GMT -8
Very true. Where is that same demonstrative outrage from BLM, etc.... Oh yeah, because they weren't white police officers. So predictable. Wrong. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 9:03:53 GMT -8
Unfortunately, beyond an issue of pure humanity, it is politically divisive, with both sides planting flags. The issue I have is the lack of understanding on "white supremacy"....which is a diverse, multi-faceted term, not just a dictionary photo of Hitler. The oversimplified "Well, the officers were the same color as Tyre, so therefore it can't possibly be" is just that, oversimplified. I couldn't even watch the video for more than 45 seconds, truth be told. I didn't even see it until late that night, after the rage had built up online. Absolutely horrific and emotionally devastating to see the aftermath. Just senseless, unnecessary violence. While I find much of his rhetoric over the top , I feel Walsh’s tweet above to be spot on. Unfortunately. Completely different circumstances. Chauvin was the sole focus of the George Floyd case in the eyes of protestors. You had one officer, front and center, kneeling on a man's neck until he died. While other officers were involved, their role wasn't seen as the same. I don't think we need to draw a line between what's worse...both acts were horrific. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 9:04:13 GMT -8
Very true. Where is that same demonstrative outrage from BLM, etc.... Oh yeah, because they weren't white police officers. So predictable. Wrong. Is that because you say that you've studied it extensively in college and outside of college so it makes you an authority on it? Well, not necessarily. People who study subjects all their life can have biased opinions. Some issues are simply cut n dry. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 9:13:03 GMT -8
Is that because you say that you've studied it extensively in college and outside of college so it makes you an authority on it? Well, not necessarily. People who study subjects all their life can have biased opinions. Something's are simply cut n dry. No, it's because you're wrong. There was a white officer involved (one we didn't even know about because his identity was being protected until a media campaign forced Memphis PD to reveal it after he was "relieved of duty") and there were protests all over the country. Atlanta (which forced the National Guard to be deployed) New York: Los Angeles: Chicago: Memphis: Probably shouldn't declare something "cut and dry" when you don't even have correct information. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Jan 31, 2023 10:21:28 GMT -8
"White privilege." We ALL have privilege, especially if we live in the USA. The greatest Country on the planet. I was wondering when you were going to use that over used term, as well. Didn't take long. Bad officers. Bad people. Taking matters into their own hands, people. Making their own rules, people. Love to see fear in the eyes of others, people. That's who those officers were, amongst other horrible things. So for clarification, because I know you'll walk this back... you're saying White privilege isn't real? But, based on a number of well documented statistics for Asians, for example, in the USA like median income, life expectancy and education level, "white privilege" has seemingly been passed up. Asians even do better by percentage than whites in surviving encounters with the police - why? CRT, which is the basis of the "systemic white supremacy" and "white privilege" claims should, if it is at all correct, predict this outcome. Of course, it doesn't and the absurdity of it is obvious to all save for those invested in its perpetuation. Outcomes occur as they do for a million reasons. Your parents loved and aided you and your siblings as much the same as they could. Question - are the outcomes for your and all your sibling's life identical? Of course not but there is no overt or systemic fault with your parents for those outcomes. Because men are killed by cops more often and at a higher rates than women, are we to assume that cops are, at their core, misandrists? No. Similar false cause and effect fallacies are used to back arguments for CRT and are utter nonsense. And, if you point it out, the proponents of CRT use circular logic, protected by the Kafka trap, in which objections to CRT are treated as proof of racism, to shut down debate. Power corrupts. Prosecute the abuse of power. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 10:28:18 GMT -8
So for clarification, because I know you'll walk this back... you're saying White privilege isn't real? But, based on a number of well documented statistics for Asians, for example, in the USA like median income, life expectancy and education level, "white privilege" has seemingly been passed up. Asians even do better by percentage than whites in surviving encounters with the police - why? CRT, which is the basis of the "systemic white supremacy" and "white privilege" claims should, if it is at all correct, predict this outcome. Of course, it doesn't and the absurdity of it is obvious to all save for those invested in its perpetuation. Outcomes occur as they do for a million reasons. Your parents loved and aided you and your siblings as much the same as they could. Question - are the outcomes for your and all your sibling's life identical? Of course not but there is no overt or systemic fault with your parents for those outcomes. Because men are killed by cops more often and at a higher rates than women, are we to assume that cops are, at their core, misandrists? No. Similar false cause and effect fallacies are used to back arguments for CRT and are utter nonsense. And, if you point it out, the proponents of CRT use circular logic, protected by the Kafka trap, in which objections to CRT are treated as proof of racism, to shut down debate. Power corrupts. Prosecute the abuse of power. This tired argument? Again? Yes, congratulations, cherrypicking one race/culture out of the sea (selective bias?) that is inherently different from all the rest is validation and proof..of nothing. You can talk yourself in circles without care for fact. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 10:28:44 GMT -8
Is that because you say that you've studied it extensively in college and outside of college so it makes you an authority on it? Well, not necessarily. People who study subjects all their life can have biased opinions. Something's are simply cut n dry. No, it's because you're wrong. There was a white officer involved (one we didn't even know about because his identity was being protected until a media campaign forced Memphis PD to reveal it after he was "relieved of duty") and there were protests all over the country. Atlanta (which forced the National Guard to be deployed) New York: Los Angeles: Chicago: Memphis: Probably shouldn't declare something "cut and dry" when you don't even have correct information. Like I said, not even CLOSE to the demonstrative protests that happened after the Floyd case. Not. even. close. Thankfully. There were more ugly protests due to the fact that they were white officers involved, so they had the double whammy of protesting against white officers and ALL police officers on general. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 10:32:37 GMT -8
No, it's because you're wrong. There was a white officer involved (one we didn't even know about because his identity was being protected until a media campaign forced Memphis PD to reveal it after he was "relieved of duty") and there were protests all over the country. Atlanta (which forced the National Guard to be deployed) New York: Los Angeles: Chicago: Memphis: Probably shouldn't declare something "cut and dry" when you don't even have correct information. Like I said, not even CLOSE to the demonstrative protests that happened after the Floyd case. Not. even. close. Thankfully. There were more ugly protests due to the fact that they were white officers involved, so they had the double whammy of protesting against white officers and ALL police officers on general. Your dumbed down, boilerplate logic: "Well, there wasn't widespread looting plastered all over my news, so this is proof of.....something." Embarrassingly remedial straw grasping. The general public just found out about Preston Hemphill's involvement yesterday. George Floyd's murder was caught on video while it happened; there was no video released of the murder of Tyre Nichols until three weeks after the incident occured. How the incidents occurred and were framed were completely different. These things require actual comparison, not whatever this is you're trying to accomplish. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 11:05:26 GMT -8
Like I said, not even CLOSE to the demonstrative protests that happened after the Floyd case. Not. even. close. Thankfully. There were more ugly protests due to the fact that they were white officers involved, so they had the double whammy of protesting against white officers and ALL police officers on general. Your dumbed down, boilerplate logic: "Well, there wasn't widespread looting plastered all over my news, so this is proof of.....something." Embarrassingly remedial straw grasping. The general public just found out about Preston Hemphill's involvement yesterday. George Floyd's murder was caught on video while it happened; there was no video released of the murder of Tyre Nichols until three weeks after the incident occured. How the incidents occurred and were framed were completely different. These things require actual comparison, not whatever this is you're trying to accomplish. You try to rationalize, ad nauseam. It's expected. It's much more than the looting. A LOT more. Not even close to the same outrage, although it may pick up since there was a white officer involved, sadly. Are you saying, "Watch out, it's going to get worse now." How unfortunate. That's what's embarrassing. That's exactly my point. How the incidents were framed and occurred we're different? Nothing but Gibberish. It was specifically because of race why the outrage did not match the Floyd rioting. Period. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 11:12:55 GMT -8
Your dumbed down, boilerplate logic: "Well, there wasn't widespread looting plastered all over my news, so this is proof of.....something." Embarrassingly remedial straw grasping. The general public just found out about Preston Hemphill's involvement yesterday. George Floyd's murder was caught on video while it happened; there was no video released of the murder of Tyre Nichols until three weeks after the incident occured. How the incidents occurred and were framed were completely different. These things require actual comparison, not whatever this is you're trying to accomplish. You try to rationalize, ad nauseam. It's expected. It's much more than the looting. A LOT more. Not even close to the same outrage, although it may pick up since there was a white officer involved, sadly. Are you saying, "Watch out, it's going to get worse now." How unfortunate. That's what's embarrassing. That's exactly my point. How the incidents were framed and occurred we're different? Nothing but Gibberish. It was specifically because of race why the outrage did not match the Floyd rioting. Period. I don't know if it's about to get worse, but explaining it away because the officers weren't a different skin color just perpetuates laziness and a lack of critical analysis. Yes, how the incidents were framed matters. The circumstances matter. The reaction in the moment matters. Now you're saying racism does exist? Pick a lane. You're upholding institutional racism with this stuff...something I bet you don't even realize. If your only conclusion is "race doesn't matter"....you're failing. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 12:19:49 GMT -8
You try to rationalize, ad nauseam. It's expected. It's much more than the looting. A LOT more. Not even close to the same outrage, although it may pick up since there was a white officer involved, sadly. Are you saying, "Watch out, it's going to get worse now." How unfortunate. That's what's embarrassing. That's exactly my point. How the incidents were framed and occurred we're different? Nothing but Gibberish. It was specifically because of race why the outrage did not match the Floyd rioting. Period. I don't know if it's about to get worse, but explaining it away because the officers weren't a different skin color just perpetuates laziness and a lack of critical analysis. Yes, how the incidents were framed matters. The circumstances matter. The reaction in the moment matters. Now you're saying racism does exist? Pick a lane. You're upholding institutional racism with this stuff...something I bet you don't even realize. If your only conclusion is "race doesn't matter"....you're failing. You saying that skin color isn't/wasn't a big factor is naive, lazy, and dishonest. It absolutely was a big factor for the outrageous rioting in the Floyd case. We'll see how it goes with this case, hopefully it doesn't escalate. What are you talking about? I said there's racism EVERYWHERE. It exists in all aspects of life, but you, and others love to use that card early, and often along with other rants like "White Privilege." News flash. It's not always the case, just to let you know. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 13:14:56 GMT -8
I don't know if it's about to get worse, but explaining it away because the officers weren't a different skin color just perpetuates laziness and a lack of critical analysis. Yes, how the incidents were framed matters. The circumstances matter. The reaction in the moment matters. Now you're saying racism does exist? Pick a lane. You're upholding institutional racism with this stuff...something I bet you don't even realize. If your only conclusion is "race doesn't matter"....you're failing. You saying that skin color isn't/wasn't a big factor is naive, lazy, and dishonest. It absolutely was a big factor for the outrageous rioting in the Floyd case. We'll see how it goes with this case, hopefully it doesn't escalate. What are you talking about? I said there's racism EVERYWHERE. It exists in all aspects of life, but you, and others love to use that card early, and often along with other rants like "White Privilege." News flash. It's not always the case, just to let you know. You're talking in circles here. You plainly said White privilege wasn't real, but claimed "we all have privilege." (What that is supposed to mean is anyone's guess?) - Nowhere did I say race wasn't a motivating factor in the George Floyd case. Ever. It was. Race is a factor here, too, in this case. The fact the protests aren't "worse" isn't because of race, either. That narrative diminishes the issue of police brutality/systemic victimization of people of color. Painting the picture you're trying to describe is a false illusion and is disingenuous pandering. There are multiple key differences between the two cases I've already pointed out - Simplifying the matter down to "Well, the officers who killed him were Black so where's the outrage?" is grossly unjust. www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-killing-of-tyre-nichols-and-the-issue-of-race/amp#scso=_wIjZY4KiL7bakPIPwsWosAI_38:0Well worth a read. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 13:44:48 GMT -8
You saying that skin color isn't/wasn't a big factor is naive, lazy, and dishonest. It absolutely was a big factor for the outrageous rioting in the Floyd case. We'll see how it goes with this case, hopefully it doesn't escalate. What are you talking about? I said there's racism EVERYWHERE. It exists in all aspects of life, but you, and others love to use that card early, and often along with other rants like "White Privilege." News flash. It's not always the case, just to let you know. You're talking in circles here. You plainly said White privilege wasn't real, but claimed "we all have privilege." (What that is supposed to mean is anyone's guess?) - Nowhere did I say race wasn't a motivating factor in the George Floyd case. Ever. It was. Race is a factor here, too, in this case. The fact the protests aren't "worse" isn't because of race, either. That narrative diminishes the issue of police brutality/systemic victimization of people of color. Painting the picture you're trying to describe is a false illusion and is disingenuous pandering. There are multiple key differences between the two cases I've already pointed out - Simplifying the matter down to "Well, the officers who killed him were Black so where's the outrage?" is grossly unjust. www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-killing-of-tyre-nichols-and-the-issue-of-race/amp#scso=_wIjZY4KiL7bakPIPwsWosAI_38:0Well worth a read. I said everybody has privilege, not just whites. I never said it wasn't real. Also, I actually said that you and others use the race card too often, at the drop of a hat. So, I KNOW you think racism is involved in just about every tragedy along these lines. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 14:48:51 GMT -8
You're talking in circles here. You plainly said White privilege wasn't real, but claimed "we all have privilege." (What that is supposed to mean is anyone's guess?) - Nowhere did I say race wasn't a motivating factor in the George Floyd case. Ever. It was. Race is a factor here, too, in this case. The fact the protests aren't "worse" isn't because of race, either. That narrative diminishes the issue of police brutality/systemic victimization of people of color. Painting the picture you're trying to describe is a false illusion and is disingenuous pandering. There are multiple key differences between the two cases I've already pointed out - Simplifying the matter down to "Well, the officers who killed him were Black so where's the outrage?" is grossly unjust. www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-killing-of-tyre-nichols-and-the-issue-of-race/amp#scso=_wIjZY4KiL7bakPIPwsWosAI_38:0Well worth a read. Is said everybody has privilege, not just whites. I never said it wasn't real. Also, I actually said that you and others use the race card too often, at the drop of a hat. So, I KNOW you think racism is involved in just about every tragedy along these lines. And you're wrong, because not everyone has the same privilege. That should be fairly obvious with even a cursory glance at statistics with various demographics. Opportunity isn't the same as privilege, and opportunity isn't equal, either. So yes, by default, you're saying the idea of White privilege is not real, whether you realize that or not. The justice system would like to have a word with you, after it's done laughing hysterically. The term "race card" is stereotypical and prejudicial. Abject denialism to hide from an uncomfortable truth or reality isn't something I'm going to participate in. Who are you to judge that something isn't racially-based? You didn't even have accurate information in this case. You didn't even know a non-Black officer was directly involved with murdering Nichols, all you did (as always) is parrot back other people's already constructed viewpoint that you happen to nod your head to. Then, you have the audacity to say that White privilege isn't a real thing, falsely equating "everyone" having the same privilege. You don't even grasp the argument you're trying to use here. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 15:36:08 GMT -8
Is said everybody has privilege, not just whites. I never said it wasn't real. Also, I actually said that you and others use the race card too often, at the drop of a hat. So, I KNOW you think racism is involved in just about every tragedy along these lines. And you're wrong, because not everyone has the same privilege. That should be fairly obvious with even a cursory glance at statistics with various demographics. Opportunity isn't the same as privilege, and opportunity isn't equal, either. So yes, by default, you're saying the idea of White privilege is not real, whether you realize that or not. The justice system would like to have a word with you, after it's done laughing hysterically. The term "race card" is stereotypical and prejudicial. Abject denialism to hide from an uncomfortable truth or reality isn't something I'm going to participate in. Who are you to judge that something isn't racially-based? You didn't even have accurate information in this case. You didn't even know a non-Black officer was directly involved with murdering Nichols, all you did (as always) is parrot back other people's already constructed viewpoint that you happen to nod your head to. Then, you have the audacity to say that White privilege isn't a real thing, falsely equating "everyone" having the same privilege. You don't even grasp the argument you're trying to use here. I've never met a person who liked to put words into people mouths more than you do. Ridiculous. Who are YOU to judge that something IS racially based? I only heard about a white person being involved, today. So there's that. Does that make it racially based FOR SURE now, in your eyes? I'm sure it does. That's how you roll. I don't parrot like you do. I listen to both sides and I adjust from there. You know, just like you said, I listen to people that are smarter than me. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 16:27:46 GMT -8
And you're wrong, because not everyone has the same privilege. That should be fairly obvious with even a cursory glance at statistics with various demographics. Opportunity isn't the same as privilege, and opportunity isn't equal, either. So yes, by default, you're saying the idea of White privilege is not real, whether you realize that or not. The justice system would like to have a word with you, after it's done laughing hysterically. The term "race card" is stereotypical and prejudicial. Abject denialism to hide from an uncomfortable truth or reality isn't something I'm going to participate in. Who are you to judge that something isn't racially-based? You didn't even have accurate information in this case. You didn't even know a non-Black officer was directly involved with murdering Nichols, all you did (as always) is parrot back other people's already constructed viewpoint that you happen to nod your head to. Then, you have the audacity to say that White privilege isn't a real thing, falsely equating "everyone" having the same privilege. You don't even grasp the argument you're trying to use here. I've never met a person who liked to put words into people mouths more than you do. Ridiculous. Who are YOU to judge that something IS racially based? I only heard about a white person being involved, today. So there's that. Does that make it racially based FOR SURE now, in your eyes? I'm sure it does. That's how you roll. I don't parrot lime you do. I listen to both sides and I adjust from there. You know, just like you said, I listen to people that are smarter than me. Tell me what words I'm putting in your mouth. Your post is right there, so if I'm misinterpreting something, what is it? Who am I to judge? Nobody. Just reasonably intelligent and understanding of statistics when it comes to specific disparities like the one we have here. Race is a factor in all of these cases. Whether it be Black/Black crime, White/Black crime, Asian/Black crime, etc. It's always a factor. It's just beyond the surface level thinking that's required. It was racially-based prior to Preston Hemphill's involvement, just in a manner different than we saw in numerous other cases prior to Tyre Nichols. Save the both sidesing. Not interested. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 17:47:56 GMT -8
I've never met a person who liked to put words into people mouths more than you do. Ridiculous. Who are YOU to judge that something IS racially based? I only heard about a white person being involved, today. So there's that. Does that make it racially based FOR SURE now, in your eyes? I'm sure it does. That's how you roll. I don't parrot lime you do. I listen to both sides and I adjust from there. You know, just like you said, I listen to people that are smarter than me. Tell me what words I'm putting in your mouth. Your post is right there, so if I'm misinterpreting something, what is it? Who am I to judge? Nobody. Just reasonably intelligent and understanding of statistics when it comes to specific disparities like the one we have here. Race is a factor in all of these cases. Whether it be Black/Black crime, White/Black crime, Asian/Black crime, etc. It's always a factor. It's just beyond the surface level thinking that's required. It was racially-based prior to Preston Hemphill's involvement, just in a manner different than we saw in numerous other cases prior to Tyre Nichols. Save the both sidesing. Not interested. I'll tell you what you need to save. You need to save the, "There's an element of racism in everything" mentality. What a bummer to be so jaded in life, thinking that way. It does explain A LOT though. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 31, 2023 18:35:08 GMT -8
Tell me what words I'm putting in your mouth. Your post is right there, so if I'm misinterpreting something, what is it? Who am I to judge? Nobody. Just reasonably intelligent and understanding of statistics when it comes to specific disparities like the one we have here. Race is a factor in all of these cases. Whether it be Black/Black crime, White/Black crime, Asian/Black crime, etc. It's always a factor. It's just beyond the surface level thinking that's required. It was racially-based prior to Preston Hemphill's involvement, just in a manner different than we saw in numerous other cases prior to Tyre Nichols. Save the both sidesing. Not interested. I'll tell you what you need to save. You need to save the, "There's an element of racism in everything" mentality. What a bummer to be so jaded in life, thinking that way. It does explain A LOT though. Race doesn't equal racism in all cases. Jaded? Trust me, I'd rather not be a realist and live in a society where everyone was equal and racial bias wasn't a thing. Alas, we live in an imperfect world. |
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Post by uwphoto on Jan 31, 2023 19:52:34 GMT -8
Sorry, but I have to jump in here. I think it's mostly about power. If you know a few cops, and I do, when they get together you hear a lot of discussion about "perps" "dirtbags" etc. Since they deal with criminals and the fringe of society in many cases, there is a jaded view on humanity that develops. So, if you are pulled over, or have an encounter with police, depending on factors like how you are dressed, yes..possibly your race, the way you respond, if you are mentally disabled..you can easily slide into the "perp" or "dirtbag" designation. Once this happens, a bad result may occur. I myself had a horrible encounter with County Sheriff in a very remote part of the Anza-Borrego. I was on a filming job for a client and needed to relieve myself. It was 7am and there was nobody on the road. So I went down a slope and took a piss. Out of the corner of my eye, I see a big sheriff's SUV with a dog warning on the door. This 5'6" guy comes flying down to where I am and starts dropping f-bombs in my face. "Get the f x x x out of my valley, and don't ever let me see you again"! The guy was literally screaming in my face for 10 minutes. All I did was keep my mouth shut and hand him my license. Luckily, my neighbor was in the car, so I had a witness. I called Internal Affairs that afternoon, and told them I had to finish my job. They were apologetic and said go back to work. I later found out he had a bad reputation, and had been put out in the desert from the downtown jail assignment. I am convinced to this day, that he was losing it and was baiting me so he could hurt me.
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 31, 2023 20:10:04 GMT -8
Sorry, but I have to jump in here. I think it's mostly about power. If you know a few cops, and I do, when they get together you hear a lot of discussion about "perps" "dirtbags" etc. Since they deal with criminals and the fringe of society in many cases, there is a jaded view on humanity that develops. So, if you are pulled over, or have an encounter with police, depending on factors like how you are dressed, yes..possibly your race, the way you respond, if you are mentally disabled..you can easily slide into the "perp" or "dirtbag" designation. Once this happens, a bad result may occur. I myself had a horrible encounter with County Sheriff in a very remote part of the Anza-Borrego. I was on a filming job for a client and needed to relieve myself. It was 7am and there was nobody on the road. So I went down a slope and took a piss. Out of the corner of my eye, I see a big sheriff's SUV with a dog warning on the door. This 5'6" guy comes flying down to where I am and starts dropping f-bombs in my face. "Get the f x x x out of my valley, and don't ever let me see you again"! The guy was literally screaming in my face for 10 minutes. All I did was keep my mouth shut and hand him my license. Luckily, my neighbor was in the car, so I had a witness. I called Internal Affairs that afternoon, and told them I had to finish my job. They were apologetic and said go back to work. I later found out he had a bad reputation, and had been put out in the desert from the downtown jail assignment. I am convinced to this day, that he was losing it and was baiting me so he could hurt me. Oh, for sure. He probably missed effing with people while being reassigned to the dessert and was frothing at the mouth to get in a confrontation with you. I had a situation when, at the time, I was in construction and I got pulled over by a motorcycle cop for not having covers over my fog lamps on my truck, in which he told me this after the fact. He made me get out of my truck immediately, and put my hands on the hood of the truck, all the while I'm asking him what I did, to no avail. He asked me if I had any weapons on me and I said no. He started frisking me, and he found a razor blade knife that I used to cut plastic, and he promptly went berserk. He started swearing at me, saying, "I thought you told me you didn't have any weapons on you!!!" All the while he's kicking my legs apart further and further, going nuts. I kept saying it's a work tool!!! The end result was a ticket. I told him I was going to report him. I never did. Oh yeah, he was about 5'6, as well. There might be a common theme there, if you know what I mean. Having said that. There's good and bad people all over this world, and there's A LOT of people that should NEVER have any authority whatsoever. The two we talked fits that description, for sure. I definitely believe that what some Officers encounter, very bad people, can make them jaded. It's too bad, because it makes the good ones, look bad. |
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