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Post by aztecryan on Nov 23, 2022 16:06:18 GMT -8
Not the point. There's too many variables. The behavior is influenced by these things, but the solutions are far more complicated and difficult. The ease of access to weaponry, the lack of attention paid by parents and staff, etc |
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Post by uwphoto on Nov 23, 2022 17:33:15 GMT -8
Why do you think mass shootings have increased even though gun ownership has remained about the same (1959 survey found 49% people said they owned a gun)? Deer rifles, shotguns for ducks...only law enforcement had handguns. What is the 49% based on? must be households...there is no way 49% of people owned guns. My household counted, since I had a 22 single shot rifle growing up in the late 60's..but no AR. I virtually never saw guns growing up in walnut creek..no one cared about them..or talked about them. I never saw a gun at SDSU in the mid 70's..and it was never even a topic of conversation.. The gun culture exploded exponentially after the mid 80's... there is not even a comparison to 1959..! |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Nov 23, 2022 17:50:10 GMT -8
I think you are correct about households. Here is an NPR article showing a decrease in household gun ownership from about 47% in 1975 to 31% 2014. www.npr.org/2016/01/05/462017461/guns-in-america-by-the-numbersIt could also be that people don't want to report that they own guns. Not sure how the data was collected. |
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Post by Den60 on Nov 23, 2022 22:21:55 GMT -8
Why do you think mass shootings have increased even though gun ownership has remained about the same (1959 survey found 49% people said they owned a gun)? Let's see, what has changed? Gun culture? Gun fetish? Gun worship? Gun movies? I love action movies, but I guarantee you that the constant shoot 'em ups have glorified gun violence in the minds of those on the edge. And, while the number of people who own guns as a percentage of the population isn't all that different, I can tell you that a lot more people own a lot more guns than they used to (people collect guns now, moreso than in the past). And with the population being so much larger that just means more people with the opportunity to actually USE those guns. Come on, you cannot defend guns with 40,000 people killed in gun violence this year alone. Cutting robberies by 2/3 isn't worth that tradeoff. Lives are far more important. STUFF can be replaced. Lives can't. These mass killings couldn't happen without guns. Assault weapons make mass killings far too easy. Very few homicides are by rifle, you can go on the FBI website for crime statistics if you want but I am sure you won't. Most homicides by firearm are via a handgun, and most firearm related homicides are gang related. Given the last stats I have seen, there are about 3,000 gun related homicides annually that are not gang related. The population of the US is 340-350M conservatively. You can do the math if you want. Again, a guy stole a truck and killed 86 people in Nice France in 2016. It took many bullets from many guns to finally stop him from killing people. Again, one truck, 86 dead and more than 400 injured, versus the one bullet that stopped him. In order to buy an "assault weapon" in the US you need to have a special permit which requires a very extensive federal background check. After that you can expect to pay more than $30K for an actual "assault weapon." |
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Post by Den60 on Nov 23, 2022 23:12:25 GMT -8
Why do you think mass shootings have increased even though gun ownership has remained about the same (1959 survey found 49% people said they owned a gun)? Let's see, what has changed? Gun culture? Gun fetish? Gun worship? Gun movies? I love action movies, but I guarantee you that the constant shoot 'em ups have glorified gun violence in the minds of those on the edge. And, while the number of people who own guns as a percentage of the population isn't all that different, I can tell you that a lot more people own a lot more guns than they used to (people collect guns now, moreso than in the past). And with the population being so much larger that just means more people with the opportunity to actually USE those guns. Come on, you cannot defend guns with 40,000 people killed in gun violence this year alone. Cutting robberies by 2/3 isn't worth that tradeoff. Lives are far more important. STUFF can be replaced. Lives can't. These mass killings couldn't happen without guns. Assault weapons make mass killings far too easy. No, there is not 40K dead from "gun violence," please stop posting misinformation. Last number I have seen was just under $15K for gun related homicides in 2021 (not including suicides). The homicide rate has gone up in the last couple of years (gee, defund the police anyone?). |
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Post by Den60 on Nov 23, 2022 23:15:52 GMT -8
Why do you think mass shootings have increased even though gun ownership has remained about the same (1959 survey found 49% people said they owned a gun)? Stop thinking rationally.... |
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Post by Den60 on Nov 23, 2022 23:35:36 GMT -8
I don't have to "sway" you. The right to self defense with use of a firearm is an inalienable right.No it's not. There are plenty of laws imposing various types of restructions on owning a firearm... and in the opinion of many, there should be MORE laws further restricting gun ownership. You might not agree or like that, but it is true. Gee, me and many of those I know who are gun owners believe that those who cannot be trusted with all their civil rights should stay behind bars. Fancy that. Criminals will commit crimes, If they need a firearm to do what they want to do do9 they will get one. If you think you can stop them from obtaining a firearm then you are incredibly naive. Those of you that don't own guns are given protection from those of us that do. Yeah, feel free to ask me why that is. But in the meantime... You're welcome |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 24, 2022 2:35:53 GMT -8
Let's see, what has changed? Gun culture? Gun fetish? Gun worship? Gun movies? I love action movies, but I guarantee you that the constant shoot 'em ups have glorified gun violence in the minds of those on the edge. And, while the number of people who own guns as a percentage of the population isn't all that different, I can tell you that a lot more people own a lot more guns than they used to (people collect guns now, moreso than in the past). And with the population being so much larger that just means more people with the opportunity to actually USE those guns. Come on, you cannot defend guns with 40,000 people killed in gun violence this year alone. Cutting robberies by 2/3 isn't worth that tradeoff. Lives are far more important. STUFF can be replaced. Lives can't. These mass killings couldn't happen without guns. Assault weapons make mass killings far too easy. Very few homicides are by rifle, you can go on the FBI website for crime statistics if you want but I am sure you won't. Most homicides by firearm are via a handgun, and most firearm related homicides are gang related. Given the last stats I have seen, there are about 3,000 gun related homicides annually that are not gang related. The population of the US is 340-350M conservatively. You can do the math if you want. Again, a guy stole a truck and killed 86 people in Nice France in 2016. It took many bullets from many guns to finally stop him from killing people. Again, one truck, 86 dead and more than 400 injured, versus the one bullet that stopped him. In order to buy an "assault weapon" in the US you need to have a special permit which requires a very extensive federal background check. After that you can expect to pay more than $30K for an actual "assault weapon." Or you can buy a semi-automatic and do almost as much killing at a fraction of the price! And, the last time I checked, cars and trucks were designed for transportation and ONLY for transportation. Guns are designed to KILL PEOPLE. That is their designed function. And how many mass killings by car are there each year? One? Two? VS hundreds by guns? Come on. Stop. If guns were illegal then the criminals who have them could be put in prison for 20+ years just for possessing one. Imagine that. Cut and dried, open and shut cases getting the worst of the worst off the streets for decades. But you don't have the guts to go there. You don't have the selflessness to go there. How many gun killings are there in the UK each year? Less than 100? And, no, stabbings don't come anywhere near making up the difference. The murder rate in the UK is a tiny fraction of ours. Making guns illegal saves thousands of lives every year there. It could here. But some people are too selfish and too caught up in gun culture to allow that to happen. I used to be a die hard gun rights supporter. USED TO BE. But as mass shootings have continued to occur, out of control, with hundreds of children murdered in schools over the last couple of decades, I've had enough. Having guns won't protect you. And the reality is you are very, very unlikely to ever face a situation where a gun would be needed. And if you did, the odds of you getting to the gun, loading it, and successfully using it are minimal. (And if you keep a loaded gun in your home that's just reckless and stupid.) Like I said, I used to be a gun rights supporter, but not anymore. |
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Post by uwphoto on Nov 24, 2022 9:25:07 GMT -8
No it's not. There are plenty of laws imposing various types of restructions on owning a firearm... and in the opinion of many, there should be MORE laws further restricting gun ownership. You might not agree or like that, but it is true. Gee, me and many of those I know who are gun owners believe that those who cannot be trusted with all their civil rights should stay behind bars. Fancy that. Criminals will commit crimes, If they need a firearm to do what they want to do do9 they will get one. If you think you can stop them from obtaining a firearm then you are incredibly naive. Those of you that don't own guns are given protection from those of us that do. Yeah, feel free to ask me why that is. But in the meantime... You're welcome Enjoy your planet. |
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Post by hoobs on Nov 24, 2022 9:47:19 GMT -8
No it's not. There are plenty of laws imposing various types of restructions on owning a firearm... and in the opinion of many, there should be MORE laws further restricting gun ownership. You might not agree or like that, but it is true. Gee, me and many of those I know who are gun owners believe that those who cannot be trusted with all their civil rights should stay behind bars. Fancy that. Criminals will commit crimes, If they need a firearm to do what they want to do do9 they will get one. If you think you can stop them from obtaining a firearm then you are incredibly naive. Those of you that don't own guns are given protection from those of us that do. Yeah, feel free to ask me why that is. But in the meantime... You're welcome That's some of the most ridiculous drivel I've seen posted here in a very long time, thanks for the terrific laugh!!!  |
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Post by sdsuball on Nov 24, 2022 13:05:57 GMT -8
Let's see, what has changed? Gun culture? Gun fetish? Gun worship? Gun movies? I love action movies, but I guarantee you that the constant shoot 'em ups have glorified gun violence in the minds of those on the edge. And, while the number of people who own guns as a percentage of the population isn't all that different, I can tell you that a lot more people own a lot more guns than they used to (people collect guns now, moreso than in the past). And with the population being so much larger that just means more people with the opportunity to actually USE those guns. Come on, you cannot defend guns with 40,000 people killed in gun violence this year alone. Cutting robberies by 2/3 isn't worth that tradeoff. Lives are far more important. STUFF can be replaced. Lives can't. These mass killings couldn't happen without guns. Assault weapons make mass killings far too easy. No, there is not 40K dead from "gun violence," please stop posting misinformation. Last number I have seen was just under $15K for gun related homicides in 2021 ( not including suicides). The homicide rate has gone up in the last couple of years (gee, defund the police anyone?). Underlining why background checks are so important as a prerequisite to gun ownership. It would be nice to have mental health checks be an ongoing thing available to gun owners. Guns are more dangerous to their owners and the owner's family, then others... I think that I remember reading that somewhere. Guns need to be secured safely so that other family members (especially kids and teenagers) can't access them. |
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Nov 24, 2022 22:23:25 GMT -8
No it's not. There are plenty of laws imposing various types of restructions on owning a firearm... and in the opinion of many, there should be MORE laws further restricting gun ownership. You might not agree or like that, but it is true. Gee, me and many of those I know who are gun owners believe that those who cannot be trusted with all their civil rights should stay behind bars. Fancy that. Criminals will commit crimes, If they need a firearm to do what they want to do do9 they will get one. If you think you can stop them from obtaining a firearm then you are incredibly naive. Those of you that don't own guns are given protection from those of us that do. Yeah, feel free to ask me why that is. But in the meantime... You're welcome If the Antifa crazies from downtown Seattle come to get me can I call you to save me. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Nov 26, 2022 7:37:01 GMT -8
The Taliban stopped the best military in the world. How do you know police officers are much better trained than civilians? I recall a study showing an accuracy rate of just 18% in a study of NYC police shootings a few years back. In 2016 an evil man stole a truck and killed 86 people and injured over 400 more. I don't see anyone blaming the truck. Evil people will find a way to do evil things. The Taliban was an organized militia. A former government built out of a rebel militia group/army that fought the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan. A totally different scenario. If we got to the point in this country where we legitimately had a fascist, authoritarian regime they would know who had guns, and they'd go in at 3 AM, break the door down, and arrest the gun owner, confiscating his/her guns. By the time you knew there was a problem it would be too late. And there are far too many people in law enforcement and the military to succeed in any rebel uprising anyway. Oh, guns make it a LOT easier for bad people to do bad things. Guns are only good for killing. That's what they're designed to do. I don't agree that an armed citizenry would lose to a totalitarian state. Gun confiscation on a national scale can not occur simultaneously. And once the threat becomes known, guns would hidden and the authorities (~police, judges, politicians, soldiers) wouldn't be safe in their homes (including their families). Seen where just a motivated criminal gang can bring an entire state to its knees (see Sicily, Columbia, etc). Wyoming, for example, per person, has guns galore but doesn't have high rates of gun violence. Its a function of culture and economics. And trying to do the hard work on those fronts where gun violence is high is either politically taboo or wrong headed/not working. I don't want to give up my gun rights just because taking away my gun is easier than doing the politically difficult or easier than taking away the criminal and their gun. |
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Nov 26, 2022 12:56:03 GMT -8
The Taliban was an organized militia. A former government built out of a rebel militia group/army that fought the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan. A totally different scenario. If we got to the point in this country where we legitimately had a fascist, authoritarian regime they would know who had guns, and they'd go in at 3 AM, break the door down, and arrest the gun owner, confiscating his/her guns. By the time you knew there was a problem it would be too late. And there are far too many people in law enforcement and the military to succeed in any rebel uprising anyway. Oh, guns make it a LOT easier for bad people to do bad things. Guns are only good for killing. That's what they're designed to do. I don't agree that an armed citizenry would lose to a totalitarian state. Gun confiscation on a national scale can not occur simultaneously. An armed citizenry is a disorganized, individualized bunch of lunatics. Zero chance against law enforcement and the military. You're fooling yourself if you think they could organize well enough to do more than be a nuisance. Nevermind the thousands of people killed by gun violence every year. Nevermind innocent children murdered by the hundreds in school shootings. Your personal gun rights are more important. Innocent lives lost is the price for freedom, right? |
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Post by Den60 on Nov 26, 2022 20:41:25 GMT -8
Very few homicides are by rifle, you can go on the FBI website for crime statistics if you want but I am sure you won't. Most homicides by firearm are via a handgun, and most firearm related homicides are gang related. Given the last stats I have seen, there are about 3,000 gun related homicides annually that are not gang related. The population of the US is 340-350M conservatively. You can do the math if you want. Again, a guy stole a truck and killed 86 people in Nice France in 2016. It took many bullets from many guns to finally stop him from killing people. Again, one truck, 86 dead and more than 400 injured, versus the one bullet that stopped him. In order to buy an "assault weapon" in the US you need to have a special permit which requires a very extensive federal background check. After that you can expect to pay more than $30K for an actual "assault weapon." Or you can buy a semi-automatic and do almost as much killing at a fraction of the price! And, the last time I checked, cars and trucks were designed for transportation and ONLY for transportation. Guns are designed to KILL PEOPLE. That is their designed function. And how many mass killings by car are there each year? One? Two? VS hundreds by guns? Come on. Stop. If guns were illegal then the criminals who have them could be put in prison for 20+ years just for possessing one. Imagine that. Cut and dried, open and shut cases getting the worst of the worst off the streets for decades. But you don't have the guts to go there. You don't have the selflessness to go there. How many gun killings are there in the UK each year? Less than 100? And, no, stabbings don't come anywhere near making up the difference. The murder rate in the UK is a tiny fraction of ours. Making guns illegal saves thousands of lives every year there. It could here. But some people are too selfish and too caught up in gun culture to allow that to happen. I used to be a die hard gun rights supporter. USED TO BE. But as mass shootings have continued to occur, out of control, with hundreds of children murdered in schools over the last couple of decades, I've had enough. Having guns won't protect you. And the reality is you are very, very unlikely to ever face a situation where a gun would be needed. And if you did, the odds of you getting to the gun, loading it, and successfully using it are minimal. (And if you keep a loaded gun in your home that's just reckless and stupid.) Like I said, I used to be a gun rights supporter, but not anymore. Yep, guns are designed to kill things, no one disputes that. Gee, why is that even a point you are trying to make? The fact that a firearm is designed to kill is why I was trained not to point one at something I didn't want or need to kill. A buddy of mine had to kill a person as part of his job. He lives with that every day of his life. I carry what he expressed to me about that as well. Have you looked at what is happening with violent criminals of late? They are getting a "no-bail" release before the charging officers can finish their paperwork. We are talking violent criminals. The world is becoming every more dangerous to the population, If you don't prosecute crimes, crimes will become more prevalent. Thank God I have guns because I cannot count on government agencies to protect me from criminals anymore. Most gun crimes are by people who are legally prohibited from owning guns. That is a fact, sorry if you don't like it, but you can look it up. You won't, of course, simpler to blame the guns I get that. Criminals do not obey laws, if they did they wouldn't be criminals. Mexico has very strict gun laws and their homicide rate is 6 times that of the US. Perhaps they need stricter gun laws? My guns will protect me, which is why I have them. I'd use them to protect my neighbors as well, if necessary. Most gun owners feel the same. The fact that gun ownership is prevalent in the USA protects you as well. Kleck showed that evidence for that in his book. Yeah, anti gun guys have gone after him for that but he backs it up with an incredible amount of statistics. Burglars have a distinct fear of being shot by a homeowner, much more so of being caught and prosecuted. Fewer gun killings in the UK is because it is an island that restricts, but does not prevent, gun ownership. We are not an island. We have very little production of heroin in this country. Some 99.9% of heroin comes from abroad. And yet you can find heroin anywhere in the US. Tell me how we can stop guns from being available to criminals in this country? Try not to make me laugh in doing so. However, if you are sitting in your house in England watching an EPL game you are at a much higher risk of being subject to a "home invasion" in the UK than here in the US. Why, because in the UK those violent criminals don't fear their potential victims and they don't fear the police. Kleck showed this, He interviewed many burglars/robbers in prison as to why they would "case out" a place to ensure no one was there before they entered. Their reason? They didn't want to get shot by a homeowner. In fact, they had more fear of being shot by a homeowner that having to be caught and prosecuted by the law. You take gangs out of the equation and you get about 3K homicides in the US per year. That is the problem, not guns. Perhaps we should try to figure out why gangs have a bigger influence over kids than families. Well, liberal policies had much to do with the destruction of African-american families. When seconds count, police are minutes away. Where my mom (87) lives, however, the Sheriff won't respond to a call after 8PM. She has to count on the Border Patrol. They have, in the past, been very good to respond. However, in the last couple of years (guess why) they have been slower to respond. Fortunately, my Mom has a great neighbor, a naturalized US citizen from Guatemala who is an officer on the USS Abraham Lincoln who, and his father and son, has AR-15's and look out for her. |
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Post by uwphoto on Nov 27, 2022 8:09:33 GMT -8
Or you can buy a semi-automatic and do almost as much killing at a fraction of the price! And, the last time I checked, cars and trucks were designed for transportation and ONLY for transportation. Guns are designed to KILL PEOPLE. That is their designed function. And how many mass killings by car are there each year? One? Two? VS hundreds by guns? Come on. Stop. If guns were illegal then the criminals who have them could be put in prison for 20+ years just for possessing one. Imagine that. Cut and dried, open and shut cases getting the worst of the worst off the streets for decades. But you don't have the guts to go there. You don't have the selflessness to go there. How many gun killings are there in the UK each year? Less than 100? And, no, stabbings don't come anywhere near making up the difference. The murder rate in the UK is a tiny fraction of ours. Making guns illegal saves thousands of lives every year there. It could here. But some people are too selfish and too caught up in gun culture to allow that to happen. I used to be a die hard gun rights supporter. USED TO BE. But as mass shootings have continued to occur, out of control, with hundreds of children murdered in schools over the last couple of decades, I've had enough. Having guns won't protect you. And the reality is you are very, very unlikely to ever face a situation where a gun would be needed. And if you did, the odds of you getting to the gun, loading it, and successfully using it are minimal. (And if you keep a loaded gun in your home that's just reckless and stupid.) Like I said, I used to be a gun rights supporter, but not anymore. Yep, guns are designed to kill things, no one disputes that. Gee, why is that even a point you are trying to make? The fact that a firearm is designed to kill is why I was trained not to point one at something I didn't want or need to kill. A buddy of mine had to kill a person as part of his job. He lives with that every day of his life. I carry what he expressed to me about that as well. Have you looked at what is happening with violent criminals of late? They are getting a "no-bail" release before the charging officers can finish their paperwork. We are talking violent criminals. The world is becoming every more dangerous to the population, If you don't prosecute crimes, crimes will become more prevalent. Thank God I have guns because I cannot count on government agencies to protect me from criminals anymore. Most gun crimes are by people who are legally prohibited from owning guns. That is a fact, sorry if you don't like it, but you can look it up. You won't, of course, simpler to blame the guns I get that. Criminals do not obey laws, if they did they wouldn't be criminals. Mexico has very strict gun laws and their homicide rate is 6 times that of the US. Perhaps they need stricter gun laws? My guns will protect me, which is why I have them. I'd use them to protect my neighbors as well, if necessary. Most gun owners feel the same. The fact that gun ownership is prevalent in the USA protects you as well. Kleck showed that evidence for that in his book. Yeah, anti gun guys have gone after him for that but he backs it up with an incredible amount of statistics. Burglars have a distinct fear of being shot by a homeowner, much more so of being caught and prosecuted. Fewer gun killings in the UK is because it is an island that restricts, but does not prevent, gun ownership. We are not an island. We have very little production of heroin in this country. Some 99.9% of heroin comes from abroad. And yet you can find heroin anywhere in the US. Tell me how we can stop guns from being available to criminals in this country? Try not to make me laugh in doing so. However, if you are sitting in your house in England watching an EPL game you are at a much higher risk of being subject to a "home invasion" in the UK than here in the US. Why, because in the UK those violent criminals don't fear their potential victims and they don't fear the police. Kleck showed this, He interviewed many burglars/robbers in prison as to why they would "case out" a place to ensure no one was there before they entered. Their reason? They didn't want to get shot by a homeowner. In fact, they had more fear of being shot by a homeowner that having to be caught and prosecuted by the law. You take gangs out of the equation and you get about 3K homicides in the US per year. That is the problem, not guns. Perhaps we should try to figure out why gangs have a bigger influence over kids than families. Well, liberal policies had much to do with the destruction of African-american families. When seconds count, police are minutes away. Where my mom (87) lives, however, the Sheriff won't respond to a call after 8PM. She has to count on the Border Patrol. They have, in the past, been very good to respond. However, in the last couple of years (guess why) they have been slower to respond. Fortunately, my Mom has a great neighbor, a naturalized US citizen from Guatemala who is an officer on the USS Abraham Lincoln who, and his father and son, has AR-15's and look out for her. These discussions are useless because people like you take the presence/ absence argument..People either have unlimited guns, or there are no guns approach. There is nothing to discuss here. Switzerland has high gun ownership, but required training and a process for application/ license. You talk about the good guys with guns and the criminals. There are plenty of examples of people who had no criminal history, then snapped into mass shooting. This only seems to be epidemic in America... and you want no fix..just more access including body armor. Again from the outside looking in (other advanced countries and sane individuals.)..it's fuggin nuts. |
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Post by Den60 on Nov 27, 2022 16:43:42 GMT -8
Yep, guns are designed to kill things, no one disputes that. Gee, why is that even a point you are trying to make? The fact that a firearm is designed to kill is why I was trained not to point one at something I didn't want or need to kill. A buddy of mine had to kill a person as part of his job. He lives with that every day of his life. I carry what he expressed to me about that as well. Have you looked at what is happening with violent criminals of late? They are getting a "no-bail" release before the charging officers can finish their paperwork. We are talking violent criminals. The world is becoming every more dangerous to the population, If you don't prosecute crimes, crimes will become more prevalent. Thank God I have guns because I cannot count on government agencies to protect me from criminals anymore. Most gun crimes are by people who are legally prohibited from owning guns. That is a fact, sorry if you don't like it, but you can look it up. You won't, of course, simpler to blame the guns I get that. Criminals do not obey laws, if they did they wouldn't be criminals. Mexico has very strict gun laws and their homicide rate is 6 times that of the US. Perhaps they need stricter gun laws? My guns will protect me, which is why I have them. I'd use them to protect my neighbors as well, if necessary. Most gun owners feel the same. The fact that gun ownership is prevalent in the USA protects you as well. Kleck showed that evidence for that in his book. Yeah, anti gun guys have gone after him for that but he backs it up with an incredible amount of statistics. Burglars have a distinct fear of being shot by a homeowner, much more so of being caught and prosecuted. Fewer gun killings in the UK is because it is an island that restricts, but does not prevent, gun ownership. We are not an island. We have very little production of heroin in this country. Some 99.9% of heroin comes from abroad. And yet you can find heroin anywhere in the US. Tell me how we can stop guns from being available to criminals in this country? Try not to make me laugh in doing so. However, if you are sitting in your house in England watching an EPL game you are at a much higher risk of being subject to a "home invasion" in the UK than here in the US. Why, because in the UK those violent criminals don't fear their potential victims and they don't fear the police. Kleck showed this, He interviewed many burglars/robbers in prison as to why they would "case out" a place to ensure no one was there before they entered. Their reason? They didn't want to get shot by a homeowner. In fact, they had more fear of being shot by a homeowner that having to be caught and prosecuted by the law. You take gangs out of the equation and you get about 3K homicides in the US per year. That is the problem, not guns. Perhaps we should try to figure out why gangs have a bigger influence over kids than families. Well, liberal policies had much to do with the destruction of African-american families. When seconds count, police are minutes away. Where my mom (87) lives, however, the Sheriff won't respond to a call after 8PM. She has to count on the Border Patrol. They have, in the past, been very good to respond. However, in the last couple of years (guess why) they have been slower to respond. Fortunately, my Mom has a great neighbor, a naturalized US citizen from Guatemala who is an officer on the USS Abraham Lincoln who, and his father and son, has AR-15's and look out for her. These discussions are useless because people like you take the presence/ absence argument..People either have unlimited guns, or there are no guns approach. There is nothing to discuss here. Switzerland has high gun ownership, but required training and a process for application/ license. You talk about the good guys with guns and the criminals. There are plenty of examples of people who had no criminal history, then snapped into mass shooting. This only seems to be epidemic in America... and you want no fix..just more access including body armor. Again from the outside looking in (other advanced countries and sane individuals.)..it's fuggin nuts. People like me? What does that mean? Please explain. Switzerland may have high gun ownership but they heavily regulate the sale of ammunition. Also, their population is way more homogeneous than here in the US. I have had firearm training, most gun owners have undergone some form of firearm training. If some one new to guns were to speak to be about becoming a gun owner the first thing I will say is go to someone/somewhere to get training, NRA is great for training and education. I think firearm safety should be mandatory in schools by kindergarten. And it should be repeated throughout the primary education. Simple things like: 1. Always treat a firearm like it is loaded. 2. Never point the muzzle of the firearm at something you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to fire. 4. Know your target and what is beyond it. Even if you plan to never own a firearm the first two tenets will serve one well. Any parent that doesn't look to educate their child in firearm safety is doing a major disservices to their child. I'd like you to post those examples of people with "no criminal history" who "snapped" and went on a shooting spree. Does that happen? Sure. But, for the most part, there is some sort of history about the gunman, including criminal charges, that would make that person "prohibited" from owning a firearm. That can be said about the recent shooter in Colorado. He was arrested for making bomb threats in June of 2021, even told his relatives he wanted to be the next "mass shooter." And yet, not charges were filed and his charges were "expunged." I will say that, however, I am not a fan of red flag laws that are written in such a way that violates one's 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 14 Amendment rights. Every one I have read violates some, if not all, our our civil rights. I want to know why we are turning out young people who want to shoot up a school. I do have some theories about that, but I doubt they would be popular on this board. Guns have been around for decades and yet "mass shootings" are relatively new. |
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Post by uwphoto on Nov 28, 2022 9:29:00 GMT -8
These discussions are useless because people like you take the presence/ absence argument..People either have unlimited guns, or there are no guns approach. There is nothing to discuss here. Switzerland has high gun ownership, but required training and a process for application/ license. You talk about the good guys with guns and the criminals. There are plenty of examples of people who had no criminal history, then snapped into mass shooting. This only seems to be epidemic in America... and you want no fix..just more access including body armor. Again from the outside looking in (other advanced countries and sane individuals.)..it's fuggin nuts. People like me? What does that mean? Please explain. Switzerland may have high gun ownership but they heavily regulate the sale of ammunition. Also, their population is way more homogeneous than here in the US. I have had firearm training, most gun owners have undergone some form of firearm training. If some one new to guns were to speak to be about becoming a gun owner the first thing I will say is go to someone/somewhere to get training, NRA is great for training and education. I think firearm safety should be mandatory in schools by kindergarten. And it should be repeated throughout the primary education. Simple things like: 1. Always treat a firearm like it is loaded. 2. Never point the muzzle of the firearm at something you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to fire. 4. Know your target and what is beyond it. Even if you plan to never own a firearm the first two tenets will serve one well. Any parent that doesn't look to educate their child in firearm safety is doing a major disservices to their child. I'd like you to post those examples of people with "no criminal history" who "snapped" and went on a shooting spree. Does that happen? Sure. But, for the most part, there is some sort of history about the gunman, including criminal charges, that would make that person "prohibited" from owning a firearm. That can be said about the recent shooter in Colorado. He was arrested for making bomb threats in June of 2021, even told his relatives he wanted to be the next "mass shooter." And yet, not charges were filed and his charges were "expunged." I will say that, however, I am not a fan of red flag laws that are written in such a way that violates one's 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 14 Amendment rights. Every one I have read violates some, if not all, our our civil rights. I want to know why we are turning out young people who want to shoot up a school. I do have some theories about that, but I doubt they would be popular on this board. Guns have been around for decades and yet "mass shootings" are relatively new. "NRA is great for training and education" yep, Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook) and his mother were both members and had NRA certificates. Thanks NRA for the marketing and proliferation since the early 80's. Now when I drop my grandson off at his first grade..I have trepidation and so does my daughter...nice thing to worry about. f x x x the nra. |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 28, 2022 11:15:56 GMT -8
These discussions are useless because people like you take the presence/ absence argument..People either have unlimited guns, or there are no guns approach. There is nothing to discuss here. Switzerland has high gun ownership, but required training and a process for application/ license. You talk about the good guys with guns and the criminals. There are plenty of examples of people who had no criminal history, then snapped into mass shooting. This only seems to be epidemic in America... and you want no fix..just more access including body armor. Again from the outside looking in (other advanced countries and sane individuals.)..it's fuggin nuts. People like me? What does that mean? Please explain. Switzerland may have high gun ownership but they heavily regulate the sale of ammunition. Also, their population is way more homogeneous than here in the US. I have had firearm training, most gun owners have undergone some form of firearm training. If some one new to guns were to speak to be about becoming a gun owner the first thing I will say is go to someone/somewhere to get training, NRA is great for training and education. I think firearm safety should be mandatory in schools by kindergarten. And it should be repeated throughout the primary education. Simple things like: 1. Always treat a firearm like it is loaded. 2. Never point the muzzle of the firearm at something you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to fire. 4. Know your target and what is beyond it. Even if you plan to never own a firearm the first two tenets will serve one well. Any parent that doesn't look to educate their child in firearm safety is doing a major disservices to their child. I'd like you to post those examples of people with "no criminal history" who "snapped" and went on a shooting spree. Does that happen? Sure. But, for the most part, there is some sort of history about the gunman, including criminal charges, that would make that person "prohibited" from owning a firearm. That can be said about the recent shooter in Colorado. He was arrested for making bomb threats in June of 2021, even told his relatives he wanted to be the next "mass shooter." And yet, not charges were filed and his charges were "expunged." I will say that, however, I am not a fan of red flag laws that are written in such a way that violates one's 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 14 Amendment rights. Every one I have read violates some, if not all, our our civil rights. I want to know why we are turning out young people who want to shoot up a school. I do have some theories about that, but I doubt they would be popular on this board. Guns have been around for decades and yet "mass shootings" are relatively new. I wonder how the kids at Robb Elementary in Uvalde felt about individual gun rights and freedoms. Or Parkland. Or Sandy Hook. Or Thurston. Or Paducah. Or Columbine. Or Santana. Or Santa Fe Springs. Or Oxford. I wonder. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Nov 29, 2022 9:37:59 GMT -8
I don't agree that an armed citizenry would lose to a totalitarian state. Gun confiscation on a national scale can not occur simultaneously. An armed citizenry is a disorganized, individualized bunch of lunatics. Zero chance against law enforcement and the military. You're fooling yourself if you think they could organize well enough to do more than be a nuisance. Nevermind the thousands of people killed by gun violence every year. Nevermind innocent children murdered by the hundreds in school shootings. Your personal gun rights are more important. Innocent lives lost is the price for freedom, right? Saying that one should do it my way or you just don't care is so typically a phony argument. Assuming you are all for Totalitarianism to address gun violence in your preferred way (take "everybody's" gun away) but I bet you think it is politically taboo to do it another way because other "Constitutional" rights (other than the 2nd Amendment) are more important. Pick any major city (Chicago, for example) and you get a war zone for gun violence on a weekly basis. What to do? The left/progressive is seemingly OK with FBI Raiding Abortion Protester's Homes so why not have the FBI/DoJ descend into the inner cities where Gun Violence rates are highest and use more strict Federal gun laws, use special surveillance with RICO Statutes, use Stop and Frisk more, etc. to greatly reduce the threat? Soros backed big city DAs generally are not going there. So what...they don't care about gun violence and innocent lives? And as far as innocent life lost, just look at the genocides that have occurred since the beginning of the 20th century and the number of innocent lives lost (it is in the millions). I disagree that the targeted victims of a Marxist or Fascist or Racist or Theocratic or Criminal (you name it) Totalitarian Government wouldn't know how to organize if doing nothing meant a plastic bag over their head and duct tape around their neck. Especially of they had guns at their disposal. |
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