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Post by johneaztec on Jan 21, 2023 13:38:49 GMT -8
You say that Trump knowingly took documents out of the White House. Ok. Are you saying that Biden did not willingly take Documents out of the White House? If so, is it because Biden SAID he didn't? Take that with a grain of salt if that's what you're alluding to. Yes, that's what I'm saying. The reality is this: In the last days of an administration, there is a whirlwind of activity with regards to transferring/packing/clearing out things to make room for the new administration. Sometimes it's handled by aides, sometimes it's handled by GSA. Things invariably do get misplaced, shifted or moved due to the sheer volume of material. Accidental incidents occur. If Biden knowingly moved them and held them with the idea to retain them for some type of political gain, then that's a problem. So far, there's nothing to indicate that at all. The type of intelligence he possessed doesn't seem to be of much material value, which cannot be said for Trump. Intelligence briefings aren't in the same stratosphere as a country's nuclear readiness plan and HUMINT reveals classified clandestine activity around the world. It's basically a NOC list of covert spies embedded in sensitive operations. In the hands of the wrong entity? Seriously bad news. People would die and they did. www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.amp.htmlJust two completely divergent situations. You can't just go by Biden's word, or any of his handlers, lawyer's, etc.... It will always be suspicious. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 21, 2023 14:11:40 GMT -8
Yes, that's what I'm saying. The reality is this: In the last days of an administration, there is a whirlwind of activity with regards to transferring/packing/clearing out things to make room for the new administration. Sometimes it's handled by aides, sometimes it's handled by GSA. Things invariably do get misplaced, shifted or moved due to the sheer volume of material. Accidental incidents occur. If Biden knowingly moved them and held them with the idea to retain them for some type of political gain, then that's a problem. So far, there's nothing to indicate that at all. The type of intelligence he possessed doesn't seem to be of much material value, which cannot be said for Trump. Intelligence briefings aren't in the same stratosphere as a country's nuclear readiness plan and HUMINT reveals classified clandestine activity around the world. It's basically a NOC list of covert spies embedded in sensitive operations. In the hands of the wrong entity? Seriously bad news. People would die and they did. www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.amp.htmlJust two completely divergent situations. You can't just go by Biden's word, or any of his handlers, lawyer's, etc.... It will always be suspicious. Where in the world did I say I was taking Biden's word? I'm talking about the actual evidence of what we know, not what Biden is saying in interviews. Weird how you're willing to dismiss one situation but Biden's is "suspicious." There's nothing suspicious from the FACTS of what we know. Documents were immediately turned over after they were found. A small subset of documents were found in a secondary location and subsequently turned over to the government. The only thing that's questionable right now is the lack of commentary from the White House. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 21, 2023 14:33:16 GMT -8
You can't just go by Biden's word, or any of his handlers, lawyer's, etc.... It will always be suspicious. Where in the world did I say I was taking Biden's word? I'm talking about the actual evidence of what we know, not what Biden is saying in interviews. Weird how you're willing to dismiss one situation but Biden's is "suspicious." There's nothing suspicious from the FACTS of what we know. Documents were immediately turned over after they were found. A small subset of documents were found in a secondary location and subsequently turned over to the government. Right back atcha. Where in the world did I say, or allude to, dismissing Trump's action on the Documents? I didn't. Trump was in the wrong. We'll see if he is found guilty of anything. I meant that a person, in general, can't just go by Biden's word, or any off his Advisors, lawyer's, etc, word. That's what I meant when I used the word, "you". You say that they were turned over, but that doesn't mean that Biden didn't know about them. He'll do what a lot of politicians do, deny, deny, deny. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 21, 2023 14:57:31 GMT -8
Where in the world did I say I was taking Biden's word? I'm talking about the actual evidence of what we know, not what Biden is saying in interviews. Weird how you're willing to dismiss one situation but Biden's is "suspicious." There's nothing suspicious from the FACTS of what we know. Documents were immediately turned over after they were found. A small subset of documents were found in a secondary location and subsequently turned over to the government. Right back atcha. Where in the world did I say, or allude to, dismissing Trump's action on the Documents? I didn't. Trump was in the wrong. We'll see if he is found guilty of anything. I meant that a person, in general, can't just go by Biden's word, or any off his Advisors, lawyer's, etc, word. That's what I meant when I used the word, "you". You say that they were turned over, but that doesn't mean that Biden didn't know about them. He'll do what a lot of politicians do, deny, deny, deny. Unlike you, I'm not going to speak in vague generalities, it serves no objective purpose to get to a definitive answer. Your first post on this subject indicated right away you were suspicious of Biden immediately. On multiple occasions, you've tried to compare and equalize the situations, even after being told that there are no similarities beyond "documents." Considering the documents were not from this administration, had been stored for some time and were returned to the government, I don't see anything nefarious. The special counsel will determine that, ultimately. But creating some kind of scandal out of this seems disingenuous, unless the facts change dramatically going forward. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 21, 2023 15:19:56 GMT -8
Right back atcha. Where in the world did I say, or allude to, dismissing Trump's action on the Documents? I didn't. Trump was in the wrong. We'll see if he is found guilty of anything. I meant that a person, in general, can't just go by Biden's word, or any off his Advisors, lawyer's, etc, word. That's what I meant when I used the word, "you". You say that they were turned over, but that doesn't mean that Biden didn't know about them. He'll do what a lot of politicians do, deny, deny, deny. Unlike you, I'm not going to speak in vague generalities, it serves no objective purpose to get to a definitive answer. Your first post on this subject indicated right away you were suspicious of Biden immediately. On multiple occasions, you've tried to compare and equalize the situations, even after being told that there are no similarities beyond "documents." Considering the documents were not from this administration, had been stored for some time and were returned to the government, I don't see anything nefarious. The special counsel will determine that, ultimately. But creating some kind of scandal out of this seems disingenuous, unless the facts change dramatically going forward. No, no no. Are you kidding me??? Nice try. I may have brought up Trump a couple of times regarding Biden's Documents issue, and mainly in response to you bringing him up, but YOU'RE the one that felt the need to continually add Trump into the conversation, and continually compare. Gimme a break. So much so, that I asked you why you felt the need to ALWAYS add Trump into the conversation. So, not a good try there. Of course I:m suspicious when a President has Classified Documents in their possession at a residence, etc.... I don't care who it is. Come on now. The main thing I'm suspicious of is whether or not he knew they were there. I'm sure he did. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 21, 2023 16:52:26 GMT -8
DOJ search of Biden's property concluded, six documents were apparently taken by the DOJ, according to Fox News.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 21, 2023 17:04:55 GMT -8
Unlike you, I'm not going to speak in vague generalities, it serves no objective purpose to get to a definitive answer. Your first post on this subject indicated right away you were suspicious of Biden immediately. On multiple occasions, you've tried to compare and equalize the situations, even after being told that there are no similarities beyond "documents." Considering the documents were not from this administration, had been stored for some time and were returned to the government, I don't see anything nefarious. The special counsel will determine that, ultimately. But creating some kind of scandal out of this seems disingenuous, unless the facts change dramatically going forward. No, no no. Are you kidding me??? Nice try. I may have brought up Trump a couple of times regarding Biden's Documents issue, and mainly in response to you bringing him up, but YOU'RE the one that felt the need to continually add Trump into the conversation, and continually compare. Gimme a break. So much so, that I asked you why you felt the need to ALWAYS add Trump into the conversation. So, not a good try there. Of course I:m suspicious when a President has Classified Documents in their possession at a residence, etc.... I don't care who it is. Come on now. The main thing I'm suspicious of is whether or not he knew they were there. I'm sure he did. I mean....it's in this thread and others, so no real way to avoid it. The reason I brought Trump up is pretty simple: His situation will heavily influence how the DOJ proceeds with the Biden investigation because both are happening concurrently. There would be a GOP outcry in Congress (and already is) about the "double standard"...so factually, it matters. Investigations would be launched, the media would be in a frenzy, the gaslighting would be nuclear levels. If you really cared about a president having classified material in their possession, you wouldn't refuse to see the big picture here and only discuss Biden's "suspicious" behavior. You wouldn't make illogical comparisons between the two events and you'd make an actual effort to understand the difference between the two. But you're sure Biden knew, despite no evidence of that being available. Objectivity? Nah. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 21, 2023 20:55:07 GMT -8
No, no no. Are you kidding me??? Nice try. I may have brought up Trump a couple of times regarding Biden's Documents issue, and mainly in response to you bringing him up, but YOU'RE the one that felt the need to continually add Trump into the conversation, and continually compare. Gimme a break. So much so, that I asked you why you felt the need to ALWAYS add Trump into the conversation. So, not a good try there. Of course I:m suspicious when a President has Classified Documents in their possession at a residence, etc.... I don't care who it is. Come on now. The main thing I'm suspicious of is whether or not he knew they were there. I'm sure he did. I mean....it's in this thread and others, so no real way to avoid it. The reason I brought Trump up is pretty simple: His situation will heavily influence how the DOJ proceeds with the Biden investigation because both are happening concurrently. There would be a GOP outcry in Congress (and already is) about the "double standard"...so factually, it matters. Investigations would be launched, the media would be in a frenzy, the gaslighting would be nuclear levels. If you really cared about a president having classified material in their possession, you wouldn't refuse to see the big picture here and only discuss Biden's "suspicious" behavior. You wouldn't make illogical comparisons between the two events and you'd make an actual effort to understand the difference between the two. But you're sure Biden knew, despite no evidence of that being available. Objectivity? Nah. Again, you're wrong. I have made no illogical, as you say, COMPARISONS between Biden and Trump in this issue. Wrong guy. Also, wrong again when you say I was SURE he knew. Being suspicious is not being sure. I DO understand the difference between the two, but I'm only talking about whether he knew or not about the Documents, which is a big deal, so no need to say I don't care. |
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Post by aardvark on Jan 21, 2023 22:43:29 GMT -8
Biden with the Sgt Schultz "I see nothing, I know nothing" defense.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 21, 2023 22:52:28 GMT -8
I mean....it's in this thread and others, so no real way to avoid it. The reason I brought Trump up is pretty simple: His situation will heavily influence how the DOJ proceeds with the Biden investigation because both are happening concurrently. There would be a GOP outcry in Congress (and already is) about the "double standard"...so factually, it matters. Investigations would be launched, the media would be in a frenzy, the gaslighting would be nuclear levels. If you really cared about a president having classified material in their possession, you wouldn't refuse to see the big picture here and only discuss Biden's "suspicious" behavior. You wouldn't make illogical comparisons between the two events and you'd make an actual effort to understand the difference between the two. But you're sure Biden knew, despite no evidence of that being available. Objectivity? Nah. Again, you're wrong. I have made no illogical, as you say, COMPARISONS between Biden and Trump in this issue. Wrong guy. Also, wrong again when you say I was SURE he knew. Being suspicious is not being sure. I DO understand the difference between the two, but I'm only talking about whether he knew or not about the Documents, which is a big deal, so no need to say I don't care. You seven hours ago: "The thing I'm suspicious about is if Biden knew. I'm sure he did (know)" Reading helps. What's the difference between the two? |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 21, 2023 23:01:20 GMT -8
I just noticed that they found MORE Documents in Biden's Delaware residence. Not a shock. But, of course he didn't know anything about them. Lol.
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 21, 2023 23:17:13 GMT -8
I just noticed that they found MORE Documents in Biden's Delaware residence. Not a shock. But of course he didn't know anything about them. Lol. Yeah, no agenda there. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 21, 2023 23:33:05 GMT -8
I just noticed that they found MORE Documents in Biden's Delaware residence. Not a shock. But of course he didn't know anything about them. Lol. Yeah, no agenda there. Just stating facts, at least in them finding more Documents, department. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 21, 2023 23:43:03 GMT -8
Just stating facts, at least in them finding more Documents, department. You're not stating facts, you're editorializing with your readily apparent political bias built in. Facts without context are meaningless. The documents reportedly found during their search (six): “DOJ took possession of materials it deemed within the scope of its inquiry, including six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials, some of which were from the President’s service in the Senate and some of which were from his tenure as Vice President," Bauer said. He added that the department had "full access" to Biden's home, "including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, binders, memorabilia, to-do lists, schedules, and reminders going back decades." Sounds like an international incident, certainly. If the president is trying to conceal something, he's doing a really poor job with transparency. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 22, 2023 0:05:12 GMT -8
Just stating facts, at least in them finding more Documents, department. You're not stating facts, you're editorializing with your readily apparent political bias built in. Facts without context are meaningless. The documents reportedly found during their search (six): “DOJ took possession of materials it deemed within the scope of its inquiry, including six items consisting of documents with classification markings and surrounding materials, some of which were from the President’s service in the Senate and some of which were from his tenure as Vice President," Bauer said. He added that the department had "full access" to Biden's home, "including personally handwritten notes, files, papers, binders, memorabilia, to-do lists, schedules, and reminders going back decades." Sounds like an international incident, certainly. If the president is trying to conceal something, he's doing a really poor job with transparency. I'm sure he just simply can't remember what he has, and doesn't have. Not good. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Jan 23, 2023 6:09:29 GMT -8
Taking classified docs out of a secure area can be very illegal. Storing classified docs out of a secure area can be very illegal. Providing classified docs to other people without a clearance can be very illegal. Moving classified docs from one unsecured location to another unsecure location can be very illegal. Not maintaining strict custody of classified docs can be very illegal. What is it gonna be for Joe? Another "I'm too stupid to live" defense like Hillary's and Trump will get the colluding with Russia hoax again? If they both don't get the same treatment and judgement in this case then, yes, a hit job. Why would they get the same treatment? The situations are not equal. No president, past or present, is ever going to be charged for mishandling or storing classified intel. Not happening. You're describing the same statute that doesn't apply here because gross negligence is not enough for criminal charges to be filed. If it were, Trump would have been arrested over a year ago for commingling national defense information with his own personal documents. Biden maintained a security clearance, so that doesn't apply, either. One more time - Trump knowingly took documents out of the White House; he's admitted as much multiple times. He refused to return them not once, not twice, but three times. His attorney lied on a sworn affidavit that all the documents had been returned when they had not. Under surveillance, the documents were moved AFTER the subpoena was issued. First it was "Well, I had the power to declassify things with my mind and tiny hands." Then it was "Well, just a bunch of folders during a raid." Then the story kept changing over and over and over. Declassification doesn't matter. Hundreds of documents regarding some of the most sensitive intelligence on Earth, like the names of covert spies around the world who were subsequently executed. Biden? Not so much. The desperation is real here, but that doesn't change the facts of what happened. One will be indicted, one will not....and it's not because of a hit job. It's because only one is an actual prosecutable crime. So why was Biden family lawyers going through the various boxes of documents stored by Joe? To figure how big the cabinets should be in the Biden Presidential Library? No, anyone with half a brain would know that they were doing damage assessment and prepping spin control for the coming Biden Family Corruption investigation in the House and Joe knew exactly where to send them to look. And having a clearance should, in any world other than one controlled by a corrupt DoJ, show that possession of classified documents could not have been done it innocently or inadvertently. Trump admitted he had the docs and felt he had the right to possess them. Joe is lying about knowing he had the docs and knows he had no right to possess them. Joe is the actual criminal here. |
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Post by johneaztec on Jan 23, 2023 8:14:58 GMT -8
Why would they get the same treatment? The situations are not equal. No president, past or present, is ever going to be charged for mishandling or storing classified intel. Not happening. You're describing the same statute that doesn't apply here because gross negligence is not enough for criminal charges to be filed. If it were, Trump would have been arrested over a year ago for commingling national defense information with his own personal documents. Biden maintained a security clearance, so that doesn't apply, either. One more time - Trump knowingly took documents out of the White House; he's admitted as much multiple times. He refused to return them not once, not twice, but three times. His attorney lied on a sworn affidavit that all the documents had been returned when they had not. Under surveillance, the documents were moved AFTER the subpoena was issued. First it was "Well, I had the power to declassify things with my mind and tiny hands." Then it was "Well, just a bunch of folders during a raid." Then the story kept changing over and over and over. Declassification doesn't matter. Hundreds of documents regarding some of the most sensitive intelligence on Earth, like the names of covert spies around the world who were subsequently executed. Biden? Not so much. The desperation is real here, but that doesn't change the facts of what happened. One will be indicted, one will not....and it's not because of a hit job. It's because only one is an actual prosecutable crime. So why was Biden family lawyers going through the various boxes of documents stored by Joe? To figure how big the cabinets should be in the Biden Presidential Library? No, anyone with half a brain would know that they were doing damage assessment and prepping spin control for the coming Biden Family Corruption investigation in the House and Joe knew exactly where to send them to look. And having a clearance should, in any world other than one controlled by a corrupt DoJ, show that possession of classified documents could not have been done it innocently or inadvertently. Trump admitted he had the docs and felt he had the right to possess them. Joe is lying about knowing he had the docs and knows he had no right to possess them. Joe is the actual criminal here. That was a question I had. It's all very fishy/suspicious. Some people will want to sweep it under the rug with, "Oh, he cooperated" but it's not that simple. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 23, 2023 8:52:10 GMT -8
Why would they get the same treatment? The situations are not equal. No president, past or present, is ever going to be charged for mishandling or storing classified intel. Not happening. You're describing the same statute that doesn't apply here because gross negligence is not enough for criminal charges to be filed. If it were, Trump would have been arrested over a year ago for commingling national defense information with his own personal documents. Biden maintained a security clearance, so that doesn't apply, either. One more time - Trump knowingly took documents out of the White House; he's admitted as much multiple times. He refused to return them not once, not twice, but three times. His attorney lied on a sworn affidavit that all the documents had been returned when they had not. Under surveillance, the documents were moved AFTER the subpoena was issued. First it was "Well, I had the power to declassify things with my mind and tiny hands." Then it was "Well, just a bunch of folders during a raid." Then the story kept changing over and over and over. Declassification doesn't matter. Hundreds of documents regarding some of the most sensitive intelligence on Earth, like the names of covert spies around the world who were subsequently executed. Biden? Not so much. The desperation is real here, but that doesn't change the facts of what happened. One will be indicted, one will not....and it's not because of a hit job. It's because only one is an actual prosecutable crime. So why was Biden family lawyers going through the various boxes of documents stored by Joe? To figure how big the cabinets should be in the Biden Presidential Library? No, anyone with half a brain would know that they were doing damage assessment and prepping spin control for the coming Biden Family Corruption investigation in the House and Joe knew exactly where to send them to look. And having a clearance should, in any world other than one controlled by a corrupt DoJ, show that possession of classified documents could not have been done it innocently or inadvertently. Trump admitted he had the docs and felt he had the right to possess them. Joe is lying about knowing he had the docs and knows he had no right to possess them. Joe is the actual criminal here. It's way too early to be hitting the bottle. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 23, 2023 8:57:18 GMT -8
So why was Biden family lawyers going through the various boxes of documents stored by Joe? To figure how big the cabinets should be in the Biden Presidential Library? No, anyone with half a brain would know that they were doing damage assessment and prepping spin control for the coming Biden Family Corruption investigation in the House and Joe knew exactly where to send them to look. And having a clearance should, in any world other than one controlled by a corrupt DoJ, show that possession of classified documents could not have been done it innocently or inadvertently. Trump admitted he had the docs and felt he had the right to possess them. Joe is lying about knowing he had the docs and knows he had no right to possess them. Joe is the actual criminal here. That was a question I had. It's all very fishy/suspicious. Some people will want to sweep it under the rug with, "Oh, he cooperated" but it's not that simple. If you're going to listen to idiocy, at least listen to the correct idiocy. Why were they going through the boxes? Gee, I don't know...it's called due diligence? After the first batch of documents was found, they wanted to do a thorough assessment/search to discover if anything/what else remained. The same process Trump's lawyers did, except....they lied about the results of the search. And yeah, it really is that simple (for Biden). They voluntarily turned over the documents to the government. Incompetent lawyering/public relations is dooming this process, but once again...it's not a criminal matter. There's nothing suspicious about it. Also, Biden voluntarily requested that DOJ search his home. No warrant, no court process, no obstruction, no outrage. A thirteen hour search yielded six items of interest. Despite the goofy statements from the White House and the lawyering issues, it's compliance. |
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Post by aztecryan on Jan 23, 2023 9:16:29 GMT -8
Why would they get the same treatment? The situations are not equal. No president, past or present, is ever going to be charged for mishandling or storing classified intel. Not happening. You're describing the same statute that doesn't apply here because gross negligence is not enough for criminal charges to be filed. If it were, Trump would have been arrested over a year ago for commingling national defense information with his own personal documents. Biden maintained a security clearance, so that doesn't apply, either. One more time - Trump knowingly took documents out of the White House; he's admitted as much multiple times. He refused to return them not once, not twice, but three times. His attorney lied on a sworn affidavit that all the documents had been returned when they had not. Under surveillance, the documents were moved AFTER the subpoena was issued. First it was "Well, I had the power to declassify things with my mind and tiny hands." Then it was "Well, just a bunch of folders during a raid." Then the story kept changing over and over and over. Declassification doesn't matter. Hundreds of documents regarding some of the most sensitive intelligence on Earth, like the names of covert spies around the world who were subsequently executed. Biden? Not so much. The desperation is real here, but that doesn't change the facts of what happened. One will be indicted, one will not....and it's not because of a hit job. It's because only one is an actual prosecutable crime. So why was Biden family lawyers going through the various boxes of documents stored by Joe? To figure how big the cabinets should be in the Biden Presidential Library? No, anyone with half a brain would know that they were doing damage assessment and prepping spin control for the coming Biden Family Corruption investigation in the House and Joe knew exactly where to send them to look. And having a clearance should, in any world other than one controlled by a corrupt DoJ, show that possession of classified documents could not have been done it innocently or inadvertently. Trump admitted he had the docs and felt he had the right to possess them. Joe is lying about knowing he had the docs and knows he had no right to possess them. Joe is the actual criminal here. Only you can manage to spin this fairy tale and convince yourself it's somehow reality. Time to deconstruct this nonsense: Trump admitted he had possession of stolen classified material. Well, considering 18 USC 793 specifically mentions "knowingly" and "willful retention"....problem number one. Problem number two is he has no possessory interest (and has waived that right in court on multiple occasions)....once you're no longer president, you don't get to horde TS/SCI in your closet. So you're insinuating that holding a security clearance assumes guilt, but Trump not having one and still holding on to the material is....fine? What? No. Be serious, please. Not having a security clearance and being compromised by a foreign government is a terrible combination. Also, let's break down the thing you're overlooking the most: The documents themselves. The intel that Biden has turned over was from his tenure as VP/Senator. We're talking nearly a decade, at a minimum. Thus far, the contents of the documents are reportedly pretty benign; no HUMINT, no TK, no HCS. Trump? The exact opposite. Again, let's not act like the House investigation wasn't going to take place no matter if this had occurred or not, we both know they were going to launch a waste of time probe into the Biden "criminal enterprise." Meanwhile, the "Ethics" Committee now has multiple members on it that were involved in the planning of January 6th. A complete farce, to anyone who is paying attention, as you'd say. |
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