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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 6, 2022 13:28:25 GMT -8
Ryan, I'm gonna take a break from you and your posts. Thanks. That's pretty much what I expected. No means no ryan... |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 6, 2022 13:30:12 GMT -8
That's pretty much what I expected. No means no ryan... Sorry if I offended you by asking if you were a Republican or not. |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 6, 2022 13:52:36 GMT -8
I think that is a fair question, but that's like driving toward a cliff and saying "nothing has hurt me yet." Just for clarity, I'm not worried about Democrats per se, or classical liberals. I'm worried about leftist. There is a difference. I'm not in a position of power and I don't speak up, so leftist do not come after me. But I see how people are treated when they publicly "come out" as a republican. ` But to answer your question: I haven't been denied a job yet. But Would you hire the guy in the video I posted? He is MAGA. Please answer that question. I haven't been kicked off social media, or demonetized, or hidden by the algorithm, but I don't post on it either. I haven't been publicly called a racist, bigoted, fascist, extremist, etc. but aren't I by definition, you know, I am a republican. I haven't tried to speak publicly and been shutdown, but I don't speak publicly. I haven't won an election and had the loser say I was a delegitimate winner and then create a fake document and use that to investigate me for a few years, while the press slanders me. But I've never run for office. I normally don't speak up in group settings about political issues because I can read the room. But I am changing, remaining silent is easier, but not better. I guess that is on me, but it takes courage to says what is unpopular and who wants to be not liked? I will likely have to accept the current gender ideology (which I believe hurts children) or remain silent (I don't think I can, didn't I just say I should speak up, say what I believe is true?) or speak up and likely lose my job. It sucks, I love my job. And of course, we have the whole COVID thing. Forced experimental vaccinations, people losing their jobs, business's shut down, schools closed, shutting down dissenting views, silencing the lab leak theory, calling it "the pandemic of the unvaccinated" etc. You remember. I think that gives you an idea of what the left is capable of right here in the USA. So... Nothing to hurt you. Got it. MAGA Republicans ARE a threat to our Democracy. They have proven that. They are willing to cheat and subvert elections to get their way. They are willing to shut down polling places for minorities, then limit vote by mail. They are willing to disenfranchise tens of millions of Americans because they are AFRAID of them. They are afraid of people who are different from them or have differing political viewpoints from them. They oppose higher education. They don't want an educated, informed populace. Ignorance works better for them. What should we do with them? If they break laws we should prosecute them. The insurrectionists from January 6th were treated with kid gloves. Had I been in charge I would have viewed them as enemy combatants and shot them as they attacked the Capitol. Trump broke laws, so he should certainly be prosecuted. OK...if that is nothing... Anyway, this is the problem. Your diatribe about MAGA republics is a little disturbing. You have a caricature view of them. Add that with rhetoric and you have a recipe for disaster. Yep, if Trump broke any real laws, then he should be prosecuted. As long as those laws (and similar ones) are also used to prosecute both parties. In other words, no selective prosecution. Or sentencing. We don't want a politicised police force where you can "show me the man and I'll show you the crime". I do know the opposition party along with the media spent a few years falsely accusing him. MAGA's are not committing a crime by being MAGA. Should we put them on a list just to keep an eye out for them? Maybe investigate them to see if they ARE committing a crime? What should we do with them? Would you hire the MAGA in the video? |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 6, 2022 15:59:31 GMT -8
sdsuball, you asked me why I support Trump. I'm not a Trump supporter, I hope he doesn't run. But whoever the republicans run, he or she will be demonized too. I don't think you are seeing what is going on. "The MAGA agenda". not the MAGA people? Come on man. "A threat to the very soul of the country". Every movie needs a villain. Every movement needs an enemy. MAGA they are the enemy. A threat to democracy, the soul of the country, our very existence...what should we do with such people? They are not people, they are MAGA! I can't believe what a bad idea this is...it's insanely dark...and we have seen it played out multiple times in human history. I think that it's important that you look at the actions that Trump has taken and some of the things that have come out of his mouth since 2016. Trump is MAGA - it's his campaign slogan. Trump right now is the face of the Republican party. He kicked Cheney out of her Congressional seat. Democrats don't like the rollback of Roe v. Wade, but they aren't calling rank and file Republicans extremists for holding those views about abortion. Do both parties criticize the other parties' candidates? Yes, of course. But that's not what Biden is doing in this speech. Trump is a traitor to our country. He should be treated as such. Not his MAGA supporters, but him specifically. He tried to overturn an election. He stole top secret documents on his way out of office. That is treason, sedition. He would be hung from the gallows if this happened a century ago.He tried to withdraw military aid to Ukraine after they wouldn't give him dirt on Biden's son. Considering his warm relationship with Russia, considering that they later invaded Ukraine.. I see him acting in Russia's best interest in trying to withhold military aid to America's ally. It may be difficult to prove that it's treason, but it looks treasonous even if it's not necessarily provable. Here's a suggestion - vote for someone other then Trump in the primary. And stop sheltering him in your party. When you guys don't speak out against someone who is the face of your party, who kicks other Republicans out of office who disagree with him, who is a traitor to our country and democracy - that's when there's a bigger problem. You don't like Trump. So speak out against him and MAGA.I can understand what you are saying, but let me give you Trump from another perspective. I'm not asking you to agree with it, just here it and then disagree. 2016 Trump campaign. He's childish and an asshole, but he is also a fighter that wants American to be great, to put American interests first, be energy independent, bring back jobs, secure the boarder, is pro-police, pro-military, but doesn't want us in foreign wars. His slogan is excellent. He resonates as someone who is not political, just wants to get the job done. And he fights back. Thanks what I remember. But he's too much of a dick to vote for. He's not presidential enough. He should be on a talk show, not the president. No way he gets elected. He fricken wins. Unbelievable. Did that really happen? I remember laughing thinking OMG people's heads are going to explode. And they did. There were riots, Trump voters were literally beaten in the streets. "The resistance" "Not my president" "White backlash" Basically, he is the devil. Now, I can understand to a point. The guy is polarizing, no doubt about it. You can't just talk that kind of $#!+ and expect people not to react. But my god did they react! Almost immediately his victory is called into question. He is an illegitimate president. He colluded with Russia! Anyway, then as president he's getting stuff done. Economy is booming, gas prices down, handling foreign policy, getting Nato to pay more, dealing with China, trying to secure the boarder. BTW I think he would have made a deal with boarder security and nationalization / citizenship, but I can understand why Dem's wouldn't wan to deal with him. Calling out "fake news" and fighting. Fighting being a good thing. Fighting like a jerk is not a good thing. Now, as I remember it, it was constant about how Trump colluded with Russian. Didn't that last a few years? Anyway, it wasn't true. It was just part of the "resistance". Wow, that's f'ed up. Then they tried (successfully?) to impeach him. At that point I was no longer paying attention to attacks against Trump. And, I almost forgot, the pandemic. And the George Floyd protests and riots. Now 2020 is coming around. The Dems pick mighty Joe Biden. Trump is seriously unhinged in his first debate (I do think that costs him). Big tech is working against him. The media has been against him all four years. They have instituted mail in balloting. They call Hunter Biden laptop story fake news and suppress it. On election night he is leading, kind of big. In the morning he has lost. Now after, all the "resistance" to his presidency, people are rightfully concerned that he had been cheated out of the election. Does he handle it well. Of course not. Does he act presidential, no. Does he commit a crime? But are his and other concerns acknowledged? Of course not. Well Jan 6th rolls around. Like I've said before, when I saw it, I understood why people would protest. I mean, after all the George Floyd protests, it was a cool thing to do. When I saw the "mostly peaceful" protest turn into a riot. I thought what a bunch of idiots, arrest them, and this is going to be used against republicans for decades. Never did it cross my mind that this was some sort of government takeover. That's because it wasn't. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Anyway, so the story goes on...Investigations I don't listen too, accusations I don't really believe. It just looks like a circus. I'll just wait until he is actually convicted of a crime. Then I can hear the defense and the prosecution. |
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Post by ptsdthor on Sept 6, 2022 16:19:55 GMT -8
Who are firing employees for vax disobedience? Who are about to attack doctors for just mentioning the elevated rate of myocarditis relating to the Moderna vax? Who are making broad sweeping generalizations characterizing certain people as monsters for simply having different political opinions (but actually have done nothing wrong or illegal)? Who are colluding with social media on limiting free speech to average americans and especially their political opponents? Who are creating the equivalent of a Ministry of Truth? Can you spell "authoritarian"? The "semi-fascist" accusation is pure projection.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 6, 2022 16:46:57 GMT -8
I think that it's important that you look at the actions that Trump has taken and some of the things that have come out of his mouth since 2016. Trump is MAGA - it's his campaign slogan. Trump right now is the face of the Republican party. He kicked Cheney out of her Congressional seat. Democrats don't like the rollback of Roe v. Wade, but they aren't calling rank and file Republicans extremists for holding those views about abortion. Do both parties criticize the other parties' candidates? Yes, of course. But that's not what Biden is doing in this speech. Trump is a traitor to our country. He should be treated as such. Not his MAGA supporters, but him specifically. He tried to overturn an election. He stole top secret documents on his way out of office. That is treason, sedition. He would be hung from the gallows if this happened a century ago.He tried to withdraw military aid to Ukraine after they wouldn't give him dirt on Biden's son. Considering his warm relationship with Russia, considering that they later invaded Ukraine.. I see him acting in Russia's best interest in trying to withhold military aid to America's ally. It may be difficult to prove that it's treason, but it looks treasonous even if it's not necessarily provable. Here's a suggestion - vote for someone other then Trump in the primary. And stop sheltering him in your party. When you guys don't speak out against someone who is the face of your party, who kicks other Republicans out of office who disagree with him, who is a traitor to our country and democracy - that's when there's a bigger problem. You don't like Trump. So speak out against him and MAGA.I can understand what you are saying, but let me give you Trump from another perspective. I'm not asking you to agree with it, just here it and then disagree. 2016 Trump campaign. He's childish and an asshole, but he is also a fighter that wants American to be great, to put American interests first, be energy independent, bring back jobs, secure the boarder, is pro-police, pro-military, but doesn't want us in foreign wars. His slogan is excellent. He resonates as someone who is not political, just wants to get the job done. And he fights back. Thanks what I remember. But he's too much of a dick to vote for. He's not presidential enough. He should be on a talk show, not the president. No way he gets elected. He fricken wins. Unbelievable. Did that really happen? I remember laughing thinking OMG people's heads are going to explode. And they did. There were riots, Trump voters were literally beaten in the streets. "The resistance" "Not my president" "White backlash" Basically, he is the devil. Now, I can understand to a point. The guy is polarizing, no doubt about it. You can't just talk that kind of $#!+ and expect people not to react. But my god did they react! Almost immediately his victory is called into question. He is an illegitimate president. He colluded with Russia! Anyway, then as president he's getting stuff done. Economy is booming, gas prices down, handling foreign policy, getting Nato to pay more, dealing with China, trying to secure the boarder. BTW I think he would have made a deal with boarder security and nationalization / citizenship, but I can understand why Dem's wouldn't wan to deal with him. Calling out "fake news" and fighting. Fighting being a good thing. Fighting like a jerk is not a good thing. Now, as I remember it, it was constant about how Trump colluded with Russian. Didn't that last a few years? Anyway, it wasn't true. It was just part of the "resistance". Wow, that's f'ed up. Then they tried (successfully?) to impeach him. At that point I was no longer paying attention to attacks against Trump. And, I almost forgot, the pandemic. And the George Floyd protests and riots. Now 2020 is coming around. The Dems pick mighty Joe Biden. Trump is seriously unhinged in his first debate (I do think that costs him). Big tech is working against him. The media has been against him all four years. They have instituted mail in balloting. They call Hunter Biden laptop story fake news and suppress it. On election night he is leading, kind of big. In the morning he has lost. Now after, all the "resistance" to his presidency, people are rightfully concerned that he had been cheated out of the election. Does he handle it well. Of course not. Does he act presidential, no. Does he commit a crime? But are his and other concerns acknowledged? Of course not. Well Jan 6th rolls around. Like I've said before, when I saw it, I understood why people would protest. I mean, after all the George Floyd protests, it was a cool thing to do. When I saw the "mostly peaceful" protest turn into a riot. I thought what a bunch of idiots, arrest them, and this is going to be used against republicans for decades. Never did it cross my mind that this was some sort of government takeover. That's because it wasn't. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Anyway, so the story goes on...Investigations I don't listen too, accusations I don't really believe. It just looks like a circus. I'll just wait until he is actually convicted of a crime. Then I can hear the defense and the prosecution. Actually, Trump DID collude with Russia. Have you not seen the reports? Barr played Twister contorting his decision to NOT prosecute Trump, even though Mueller's investigation and report showed clear evidence of criminal violations. Barr is now in some trouble because it looks like he SHOULD HAVE prosecuted his boss, but didn't. He pussed out. No wonder he's been so against Trump since Trump engaged in his Coup attempt. Barr feels personally responsible for leaving Trump in a position to do that! Trump doesn't give a $#!+ about America. He only cares about Donald Trump. What will bring him the most wealth and power, that is ALL he cares about. Don't delude yourself into thinking otherwise. He made a huge profit off of being President. Every single case where he could hire his own companies to supply products to the White House and provide services he hired his own companies at hugely inflated rates. He made a boatload of money from being President. And it stoked his ego. |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 6, 2022 17:08:15 GMT -8
Who are firing employees for vax disobedience? Who are about to attack doctors for just mentioning the elevated rate of myocarditis relating to the Moderna vax? Who are making broad sweeping generalizations characterizing certain people as monsters for simply having different political opinions (but actually have done nothing wrong or illegal)? Who are colluding with social media on limiting free speech to average americans and especially their political opponents? Who are creating the equivalent of a Ministry of Truth? Can you spell "authoritarian"? The "semi-fascist" accusation is pure projection. I forgot about "the ministry of truth"...unbelievable! The disinformation governance board! What could go wrong with that? |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 6, 2022 18:42:25 GMT -8
I think that it's important that you look at the actions that Trump has taken and some of the things that have come out of his mouth since 2016. Trump is MAGA - it's his campaign slogan. Trump right now is the face of the Republican party. He kicked Cheney out of her Congressional seat. Democrats don't like the rollback of Roe v. Wade, but they aren't calling rank and file Republicans extremists for holding those views about abortion. Do both parties criticize the other parties' candidates? Yes, of course. But that's not what Biden is doing in this speech. Trump is a traitor to our country. He should be treated as such. Not his MAGA supporters, but him specifically. He tried to overturn an election. He stole top secret documents on his way out of office. That is treason, sedition. He would be hung from the gallows if this happened a century ago.He tried to withdraw military aid to Ukraine after they wouldn't give him dirt on Biden's son. Considering his warm relationship with Russia, considering that they later invaded Ukraine.. I see him acting in Russia's best interest in trying to withhold military aid to America's ally. It may be difficult to prove that it's treason, but it looks treasonous even if it's not necessarily provable. Here's a suggestion - vote for someone other then Trump in the primary. And stop sheltering him in your party. When you guys don't speak out against someone who is the face of your party, who kicks other Republicans out of office who disagree with him, who is a traitor to our country and democracy - that's when there's a bigger problem. You don't like Trump. So speak out against him and MAGA.I can understand what you are saying, but let me give you Trump from another perspective. I'm not asking you to agree with it, just here it and then disagree. 2016 Trump campaign. He's childish and an asshole, but he is also a fighter that wants American to be great, to put American interests first, be energy independent, bring back jobs, secure the boarder, is pro-police, pro-military, but doesn't want us in foreign wars. His slogan is excellent. He resonates as someone who is not political, just wants to get the job done. And he fights back. Thanks what I remember. But he's too much of a dick to vote for. He's not presidential enough. He should be on a talk show, not the president. No way he gets elected. He fricken wins. Unbelievable. Did that really happen? I remember laughing thinking OMG people's heads are going to explode. And they did. There were riots, Trump voters were literally beaten in the streets. "The resistance" "Not my president" "White backlash" Basically, he is the devil. Now, I can understand to a point. The guy is polarizing, no doubt about it. You can't just talk that kind of $#!+ and expect people not to react. But my god did they react! Almost immediately his victory is called into question. He is an illegitimate president. He colluded with Russia! Anyway, then as president he's getting stuff done. Economy is booming, gas prices down, handling foreign policy, getting Nato to pay more, dealing with China, trying to secure the boarder. BTW I think he would have made a deal with boarder security and nationalization / citizenship, but I can understand why Dem's wouldn't wan to deal with him. Calling out "fake news" and fighting. Fighting being a good thing. Fighting like a jerk is not a good thing. Now, as I remember it, it was constant about how Trump colluded with Russian. Didn't that last a few years? Anyway, it wasn't true. It was just part of the "resistance". Wow, that's f'ed up. Then they tried (successfully?) to impeach him. At that point I was no longer paying attention to attacks against Trump. And, I almost forgot, the pandemic. And the George Floyd protests and riots. Now 2020 is coming around. The Dems pick mighty Joe Biden. Trump is seriously unhinged in his first debate (I do think that costs him). Big tech is working against him. The media has been against him all four years. They have instituted mail in balloting. They call Hunter Biden laptop story fake news and suppress it. On election night he is leading, kind of big. In the morning he has lost. Now after, all the "resistance" to his presidency, people are rightfully concerned that he had been cheated out of the election. Does he handle it well. Of course not. Does he act presidential, no. Does he commit a crime? But are his and other concerns acknowledged? Of course not. Well Jan 6th rolls around. Like I've said before, when I saw it, I understood why people would protest. I mean, after all the George Floyd protests, it was a cool thing to do. When I saw the "mostly peaceful" protest turn into a riot. I thought what a bunch of idiots, arrest them, and this is going to be used against republicans for decades. Never did it cross my mind that this was some sort of government takeover. That's because it wasn't. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Anyway, so the story goes on...Investigations I don't listen too, accusations I don't really believe. It just looks like a circus. I'll just wait until he is actually convicted of a crime. Then I can hear the defense and the prosecution. It's like alternate history here. Tell me when George Floyd and civil rights equates to this. Erik said it best - What you remember is fancy campaign slogans and buzzwords. Make no mistake, Donald Trump doesn't care about the police or the military...he cares about himself and enhancing his own wealth. There are so many inaccurate viewpoints in your analysis, it's hard to even start to debunk them. |
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Post by sdsuball on Sept 6, 2022 20:32:46 GMT -8
He's right that forced vaccinations and lab leak theory are more then talking points. Forced vaccination is a legitimate erosion of our civil rights. If you are required to get vaccinated to hold onto your job because of federal, state or city rules, that is creating a considerable amount of harm to millions of American's lives. Pandemic of the unvaccinated was a bull$#!+ stance by the Democratic party. Vaccinated people spread the virus in spades. Lab leak theory is a legitimate possibility. We still haven't been able to trace the origins of COVID-19. Even scientists acknowledge the possibility of a leak from the lab in Wuhan. Their labs have weaker security protocols then labs in America. Scientists would say that it's more likely that it came from an animal source, but they can't definitively say that it came from an animal source. You don't reserve the right to potentially endanger other people and the courts have long held that standard up in litigation. And recent studies have concluded that the virus more than likely originated in the Wuhan market. These are talking points. They are amplified, but they are talking points. "Forced" vaccinations are not a red herring. People are forced to get vaccinated, or they can't live their lives - they are excluded from entering public spaces and working for their employer. Your implication in your second sentence is that potentially endangering other people is more important then bodily autonomy. I completely disagree. If that were the case, then why don't cars come equipped with alcohol detection devices that people have to blow into before starting their car? Why aren't we required to get the flu vaccine every year? Why are people allowed to buy guns? Hell, why are people allowed to carry knives on them? It's a bad argument - there are a lot of other activities that are more 'potentially endangering' to other people then being un-vaccinated. Not only that, but we haven't even brought up the high number of side effects with the COVID-19 vaccines. What, so now individuals are forced to (potentially) sacrifice their health because not doing so would potentially endanger others? It's a ridiculous argument. If you want to talk about judicial precedent, you are right that courts have routinely created case law that is to the benefit of moneyed and corporate interests. In this case, these corporate interests are the pharmaceutical companies that created the vaccines. The same companies who wouldn't even publicly release their clinical trial research data before putting the vaccine on the market! The reason why there were a lot of baseball players who were concerned about fertility risks related to the vaccine is because there are a high preponderance of miscarriages in women that are vaccinated when pregnant. There is other judicial precedent that is in poor taste - corporate personhood has to be one of the worst ones in my opinion. Just because Jackson v. Massachusetts has been around for a century or so doesn't make it right or wrong, good or bad. Are you really at fault if you are going about living your life, get infected with an airborne virus that someone transmitted to you, and unknowingly transmit it to other people? What - you're at fault for being an autonomous human being? You're at fault for existing? You're at fault for not taking a vaccine? That sounds more like authoritarianism, not democracy. "And recent studies have concluded that the virus more than likely originated in the Wuhan market."
Yes, and that still doesn't prove an animal human connection. Chinese markets are places where large numbers of people congregate and interact. It would be odd if the spread of the virus didn't first occur at the market. It still doesn't prove whether a researcher, or a pair of researchers, unknowingly spread the virus at a Chinese market - or whether animals at the market spread the virus. |
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Post by sdsuball on Sept 6, 2022 20:55:31 GMT -8
I'm not accusing you or any other Republicans of being wrong in voting for him in 2016. You liked him and you voted for him - that's fine. But I invite you to look closer at Trump's connections with Russia that go back two decades (when he was bailed out of bankruptcy by a Russian loan), his warmness to Putin, his actions in threatening to withhold military aid to Ukraine, his receiving of help from Russia in the 2016 election, and finally Putin's invasion of Ukraine. A couple of your quotes: "Now, as I remember it, it was constant about how Trump colluded with Russian. Didn't that last a few years? Anyway, it wasn't true. It was just part of the "resistance". Wow, that's f'ed up. Then they tried (successfully?) to impeach him. At that point I was no longer paying attention to attacks against Trump." "Anyway, so the story goes on... Investigations I don't listen too, accusations I don't really believe. It just looks like a circus." Basically what you are saying that that: a. You believe that Trump didn't have help from Russia in 2016 b. Because you believe that Trump was falsely accused in 2016, you no longer are willing to listen to attacks against Trump. c. Because of that, you didn't listen when Trump was accused of withholding military aid to Ukraine, our ally. d. Because of that, you didn't listen when Trump pressured state officials and the vice president to overturn the election results. e. Because of that, you didn't listen to Trump's speech in front of the congressional building. f. Because of that (and I could go on, but I won't) event in 2016, you didn't listen.
Please start to listen with an open mind. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 6, 2022 21:21:38 GMT -8
"Forced" vaccinations are a red herring. You don't reserve the right to potentially endanger other people and the courts have long held that standard up in litigation. And recent studies have concluded that the virus more than likely originated in the Wuhan market. These are talking points. They are amplified, but they are talking points. "Forced" vaccinations are not a red herring. People are forced to get vaccinated, or they can't live their lives - they are excluded from entering public spaces and working for their employer. Your implication in your second sentence is that potentially endangering other people is more important then bodily autonomy. I completely disagree. If that were the case, then why don't cars come equipped with alcohol detection devices that people have to blow into before starting their car? Why aren't we required to get the flu vaccine every year? Why are people allowed to buy guns? Hell, why are people allowed to carry knives on them? It's a bad argument - there are a lot of other activities that are more 'potentially endangering' to other people then being un-vaccinated. Not only that, but we haven't even brought up the high number of side effects with the COVID-19 vaccines. What, so now individuals are forced to (potentially) sacrifice their health because not doing so would potentially endanger others? It's a ridiculous argument. If you want to talk about judicial precedent, you are right that courts have routinely created case law that is to the benefit of moneyed and corporate interests. In this case, these corporate interests are the pharmaceutical companies that created the vaccines. The same companies who wouldn't even publicly release their clinical trial research data before putting the vaccine on the market! The reason why there were a lot of baseball players who were concerned about fertility risks related to the vaccine is because there are a high preponderance of miscarriages in women that are vaccinated when pregnant. There is other judicial precedent that is in poor taste - corporate personhood has to be one of the worst ones in my opinion. Just because Jackson v. Massachusetts has been around for a century or so doesn't make it right or wrong, good or bad. Are you really at fault if you are going about living your life, get infected with an airborne virus that someone transmitted to you, and unknowingly transmit it to other people? What - you're at fault for being an autonomous human being? You're at fault for existing? You're at fault for not taking a vaccine? That sounds more like authoritarianism, not democracy. "And recent studies have concluded that the virus more than likely originated in the Wuhan market."
Yes, and that still doesn't prove an animal human connection. Chinese markets are places where large numbers of people congregate and interact. It would be odd if the spread of the virus didn't first occur at the market. It still doesn't prove whether a researcher, or a pair of researchers, unknowingly spread the virus at a Chinese market - or whether animals at the market spread the virus. Agree to disagree and the courts have taken the stance that public health > individual comfort. |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 7, 2022 16:09:18 GMT -8
sdsuball, yeah, for sure I'm bias in favor of Trump, I mean, like it or not, he is on my "team". I would like to think that I'm on the side of truth, but I'm human, so I'm tribal. But of course that goes both ways and is true of everyone (critical of those on the other "team" and forgiving towards those on yours).
But besides that, I think I have an open mind. That is why I'm waiting for all the results to come in before I pass judgement on something like a crime. I've got no problem with him facing justice if he has committed a crime as long as that same crime (or similar) is equally investigated and prosecuted when it is done by the other side.
But I have be honest, it will take a lot to convince me. There is just too much incentive from the other side to have him be guilty.
Maybe look at it like this:
Pretend the main stream media is on the right. The universities are heavily right wing leaning. Big tech - twitter, youtube, tick-tock, facebook, right wing. Movies, right wing.
Now pretend Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination. Except he's not a fairly mellow old man, he's an asshole. He speaks threateningly about the right wing. He calls the news "the enemy of the people". Threatens the other right wing candidate with jail.
Everyone predicts the guys going to get smashed in the election. Except he wins.
Now you rejoice, you can't believe he won.
The right wing riots, they say, "not my president", they beat Bernie supporters in the streets, they call for a resistance. The celebrities of society deride him.
The right wing media is on board, at every turn they smear him. Social media adjusts the algorithms to suppress favorable pundits and promotes critical pundits of Bernie. University professor mock those who would vote for Bernie.
The losing right wing candidate says Bernie is an illegitimate president.
He's accused of colluding with China. They create a fake document to use to investigate him. They spend two years investigating him.
After that investigation finishes they start another...
You get what I'm saying...
Now not only is he a criminal, but he is a threat to the foundation of the country. Him and his followers.
Can you understand why people (myself included) are sceptical?
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 7, 2022 17:58:25 GMT -8
sdsuball, yeah, for sure I'm bias in favor of Trump, I mean, like it or not, he is on my "team". I would like to think that I'm on the side of truth, but I'm human, so I'm tribal. But of course that goes both ways and is true of everyone (critical of those on the other "team" and forgiving towards those on yours). But besides that, I think I have an open mind. That is why I'm waiting for all the results to come in before I pass judgement on something like a crime. I've got no problem with him facing justice if he has committed a crime as long as that same crime (or similar) is equally investigated and prosecuted when it is done by the other side. But I have be honest, it will take a lot to convince me. There is just too much incentive from the other side to have him be guilty. Maybe look at it like this: Pretend the main stream media is on the right. The universities are heavily right wing leaning. Big tech - twitter, youtube, tick-tock, facebook, right wing. Movies, right wing. Now pretend Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination. Except he's not a fairly mellow old man, he's an asshole. He speaks threateningly about the right wing. He calls the news "the enemy of the people". Threatens the other right wing candidate with jail. Everyone predicts the guys going to get smashed in the election. Except he wins. Now you rejoice, you can't believe he won. The right wing riots, they say, "not my president", they beat Bernie supporters in the streets, they call for a resistance. The celebrities of society deride him. The right wing media is on board, at every turn they smear him. Social media adjusts the algorithms to suppress favorable pundits and promotes critical pundits of Bernie. University professor mock those who would vote for Bernie. The losing right wing candidate says Bernie is an illegitimate president. He's accused of colluding with China. They create a fake document to use to investigate him. They spend two years investigating him. After that investigation finishes they start another... You get what I'm saying... Now not only is he a criminal, but he is a threat to the foundation of the country. Him and his followers. Can you understand why people (myself included) are sceptical? Except he's *not* on your team. You're not even playing the same game. He is fundraising and grifting off the gullibility of his base to cover his mounting legal fees as he's being investigated in four different cases. His social media platform hasn't paid their server dues in months. The CFO of his organization just pled guilty to 15 charges. His chief advisor is now being indicted (again) for fraud. Not sure if you're aware, but Trump has spent a ton of time recently spreading QAnon conspiracy theories. Do you believe in that? Your fanatical example isn't based in reality...it's not a depiction of actual events that took place. What did: Two credible impeachments, an insurrection and now a credible investigation that's likely going to end in an indictment. A real, honest to God question....What proof do you need? What will it take to convince you? January 6th wasn't enough, it seems. An event that has only happened twice in our nation's history. What else is required? |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 7, 2022 18:22:44 GMT -8
If he was convicted in a court of law in a relatively neutral location where I could witness the defense and prosecution present their case, that would convince me that he had done the crime he was accused of in the court of law.
Additionally, it would have helped me if he the press / media / tech coverage wasn't so one sided during his administration.
Finally, if individuals on the other side of the political isle would be investigated / charged for doing something of similar magnitude, that would help too.
If Trump was brought before a court and found innocent of the chargers, would that convince you he didn't commit that specific crime?
On a different note, I think the republicans have a better chance to win if Trump doesn't run. I think Trump running gives the democrat's a good opportunity to win the next presidential election, regardless of who runs, regardless of how bad the country is doing. Trump is the first president to lose because people voted AGAINST him. That takes talent!
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 7, 2022 19:05:33 GMT -8
If he was convicted in a court of law in a relatively neutral location where I could witness the defense and prosecution present their case, that would convince me that he had done the crime he was accused of in the court of law. Additionally, it would have helped me if he the press / media / tech coverage wasn't so one sided during his administration. Finally, if individuals on the other side of the political isle would be investigated / charged for doing something of similar magnitude, that would help too. If Trump was brought before a court and found innocent of the chargers, would that convince you he didn't commit that specific crime? On a different note, I think the republicans have a better chance to win if Trump doesn't run. I think Trump running gives the democrat's a good opportunity to win the next presidential election, regardless of who runs, regardless of how bad the country is doing. Trump is the first president to lose because people voted AGAINST him. That takes talent! Who on the other side of the aisle is credibly accused of stealing classified documents and outing covert assets to our enemies? Who on the other side of the aisle incited an insurrection on January 6th, based on erroneous reports of voter fraud? What you're asking for isn't equitable justice, it's a fictional event. At some point, we have to stop blaming the media for being "mean." Fox spent an entire administration placating to his fraudulent world. Breitbart and Newsmax exist. This isn't about the media; it's about common sense. What you see with your own eyes matters. A relatively neutral location? Like...where? He's under investigation in Florida, Georgia, New York and Washington D.C. Hard to gain neutrality when your crimes are that widespread. |
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Post by uwphoto on Sept 7, 2022 19:07:02 GMT -8
sdsuball, yeah, for sure I'm bias in favor of Trump, I mean, like it or not, he is on my "team". I would like to think that I'm on the side of truth, but I'm human, so I'm tribal. But of course that goes both ways and is true of everyone (critical of those on the other "team" and forgiving towards those on yours). But besides that, I think I have an open mind. That is why I'm waiting for all the results to come in before I pass judgement on something like a crime. I've got no problem with him facing justice if he has committed a crime as long as that same crime (or similar) is equally investigated and prosecuted when it is done by the other side. But I have be honest, it will take a lot to convince me. There is just too much incentive from the other side to have him be guilty. Maybe look at it like this: Pretend the main stream media is on the right. The universities are heavily right wing leaning. Big tech - twitter, youtube, tick-tock, facebook, right wing. Movies, right wing. Now pretend Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic nomination. Except he's not a fairly mellow old man, he's an asshole. He speaks threateningly about the right wing. He calls the news "the enemy of the people". Threatens the other right wing candidate with jail. Everyone predicts the guys going to get smashed in the election. Except he wins. Now you rejoice, you can't believe he won. The right wing riots, they say, "not my president", they beat Bernie supporters in the streets, they call for a resistance. The celebrities of society deride him. The right wing media is on board, at every turn they smear him. Social media adjusts the algorithms to suppress favorable pundits and promotes critical pundits of Bernie. University professor mock those who would vote for Bernie. The losing right wing candidate says Bernie is an illegitimate president. He's accused of colluding with China. They create a fake document to use to investigate him. They spend two years investigating him. After that investigation finishes they start another... You get what I'm saying... Now not only is he a criminal, but he is a threat to the foundation of the country. Him and his followers. Can you understand why people (myself included) are sceptical? Just a question. How do you explain so many former employees of trump saying basically he's an incompetent dangerous nutball? Tillerson, Mattis, Kelly, Mooch, Barr.there are easily more than 100. Oh...Deep State? So replace people with high levels of professional experience and mental stability with Mega Maga sycophants and Jerry Springer (audience) -like attributes? I get "my team"..but "my team" can also accept the ultimate level of evil. How does this guy still own the base and fleece them for ungodly sums of money. There was plenty of information available before he ran that showed he was a grifter and a shyster. |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 7, 2022 19:24:57 GMT -8
I agree, it should not be about my team / your team. It should be about what is true and what works.
I can totally understand why someone would think Trump is incompetent, a shyster, that you can't trust him. I assume he would be tough to work with to say the least.
But evil is another standard.
But let's just pretend, you couldn't see who the president was and you had to compare how America is doing under Trump vs Biden.
You may not like it, but Trump is winning. American under Trump is better than America under Biden.
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Post by uwphoto on Sept 7, 2022 19:58:12 GMT -8
I agree, it should not be about my team / your team. It should be about what is true and what works. I can totally understand why someone would think Trump is incompetent, a shyster, that you can't trust him. I assume he would be tough to work with to say the least. But evil is another standard. But let's just pretend, you couldn't see who the president was and you had to compare how America is doing under Trump vs Biden. You may not like it, but Trump is winning. American under Trump is better than America under Biden. Simply not true. We may be f****d either way, however. Trump took a $#!+ on every institution in America. He trash talked anybody who disagreed with him in science, the military ("I know more about the Taliban than the generals"). He took America into the gutter to a level that women I know who have never hated in their lives, were dropping f-boms if his name came up. The single most divisive person in US politics history. Remember "rake the forest" while he stood in burned up Malibu...that has no forests? Now, go to any right wing web site and they post California fires high in the news feed just so the brain dead can cheer California fires. What kind of sick f****s do that? Fire ecology is complex, and even a one degree elevation in temperature, and a couple less inches of rainfall can have crazy effects over time..as we are seeing. So when Montana and Idaho ask for federal assistance for fires, it does not make their feeds. As an educated person, as are all my friends, the misinformation is disgusting. We are witnessing devolution on a scale never imagined. As I mentioned before, I was in western France this year for a couple months. I'm sorry, they are just more civilized than us. America is becoming the Jerry Springer show thanks to trump and others. |
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Post by aztecryan on Sept 7, 2022 19:59:51 GMT -8
I agree, it should not be about my team / your team. It should be about what is true and what works. I can totally understand why someone would think Trump is incompetent, a shyster, that you can't trust him. I assume he would be tough to work with to say the least. But evil is another standard. But let's just pretend, you couldn't see who the president was and you had to compare how America is doing under Trump vs Biden. You may not like it, but Trump is winning. American under Trump is better than America under Biden. Let's talk about "evil" in the broadest of terms. - Trump frequently praises dictators that oppress their citizens and engage in genocide. - Trump frequently spreads conspiracy theories on social media that have gotten people killed. - Trump outed a covert asset to a hostile nation, putting that asset's life in jeopardy. - Trump has repeatedly in the last several weeks used hateful and inciteful rhetoric against the FBI and the Department of Justice, leading to increased death threats against public service workers. - Trump's administration rolled back protections for LGBTQ people and attacked immigrants from various nations around the world. - Trump's botched handling and inflammation of the COVID outbreak led to an increase in violence against Asian-Americans. - Trump"s firing of multiple IG's in retaliation for criticism (including Christi Grimm) undermined public health and safety. - Trump's refusal to admit election defeat precipitated a well-organized and coordinated effort to overturn the results of an election, resulting in the deaths of multiple people. He endangered his own Vice President in the process. - Trump has admitted to possessing materials that belong to the government, including sensitive information related to the national defense, in violation of multiple federal laws. If your perspective is somehow that Trump is *not* evil....I don't know how a reasonable person can come to that conclusion. And I wholeheartedly will disagree with your sentiment about America being better off. That's a complete fallacy. |
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 7, 2022 20:13:52 GMT -8
Hey guys I'm gonna bow out for a while. I appreciate the dialogue. I'm sure will talk again.
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