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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 17:15:33 GMT -8
www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-30220700Want to try again? Also, reread what you just wrote. You are defending a cop's actions like there's a monumental difference between two seconds and ten. We're talking about a kid who is TWELVE. A kid who wasn't reaching for his fake gun. I cannot fathom that this is a hill to die on, let alone disagree on. If we cannot fundamentally agree that Tamir Rice's shooting was a complete breakdown of authority and a miscarriage of justice....what are we even doing? We can agree it was a tragedy. The fact is the kid had a toy that wasn't distinguishable from a gun and cops have to make split second decisions on whether or not to use lethal force once guns are involved. Cops are killed every week in the line of duty in this country. Their life is on the line every time they make a traffic stop let alone respond to the scene with a possible shooter. I'm not making excuses, it just is what it is. You're using this one example as evidence for some crusade that all police everywhere are irredeemibly racist and that's the only explanation you will accept. I literally do not care to respond to you, I wasn't addressing you at all. I do not feel the need to dive into false equivalence nonsense, it's a waste of time and energy. Period. Statements like the above "one case" (it's not and you know it) are disingenuous and just misleading. You are in fact making excuses for poor training and recklessness. Since you joined the board recently, the quote function is designed to respond to a certain post and that post only. I wasn't addressing you in this post or the other post, that was to John. I'm not going further here. Sorry. |
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Post by johneaztec on Nov 20, 2021 17:24:57 GMT -8
He won't answer this, or if he does, get ready for the spin. I said I was done responding to trash. Maybe you can answer it for me. You just condoned killing a kid. Let's get real Ryan. You're really easy to read. You always go after me, in part because you think I'm not well informed and can only go superficial with you on a topic, and I'll admit that I'm obviously not extremely versed on some topics. On the other hand, if someone, like "Obsidian Edge" who IS obviously well versed and can rebut your argument and show that you are wrong or pin you to a corner, you'll either give a one, or a few words answer and say something like, " I don't respond to trash." Ok. |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 17:34:50 GMT -8
I said I was done responding to trash. Maybe you can answer it for me. You just condoned killing a kid. Let's get real Ryan. You're really easy to read. You always go after me, in part because you think I'm not well informed and can only go superficial with you on a topic, and I'll admit that I'm obviously not extremely versed on some topics. On the other hand, if someone, like "Obsidian Edge" who IS obviously well versed and can rebut your argument and show that you are wrong or pin you to a corner, you'll either give a one, or a few words answer and say something like, " I don't respond to trash." Ok. "Go after you"? Uh, okay. Well, no, I like to halt the spread of misinformation because you're being fed a bunch of lies and spewing garbage like "my black friend is upset." You still have not responded to the Rice claims. Your problem is you literally parrot someone else's false takes, then try to pass them off as real/original/true. You bring that on yourself - You can easily remedy that. I mean...LOL at thinking I'm "pinned to a corner" when I just don't want to waste my time explaining things to someone who is obviously trolling. I value my energy. I'm not "wrong" in any sense here. You defended murdering a child. What is "wrong" is you repeating someone else's misguided illusions and pretending it's RIGHT. Here's a hint - When someone says "I'm not making excuses, but....or "You're using this ONE case"....they aren't arguing reality. They are trying to promote a bogus agenda. Anyone with brain cells knows that this is not isolated to Tamir Rice. It's a byproduct or corruption, undue influence, poor training and vetting processes. |
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Post by North County Aztec on Nov 20, 2021 17:43:40 GMT -8
There you go again, another typo. It wasn't 2 seconds it was 10 seconds. Keep it up you are on a roll. Want to try again? Also, reread what you just wrote. You are defending a cop's actions like there's a monumental difference between two seconds and ten. We're talking about a kid who is TWELVE. A kid who wasn't reaching for his fake gun. The officers didn't..even...get....out...of...the..car. I cannot fathom that this is a hill to die on, let alone disagree on. If we cannot fundamentally agree that Tamir Rice's shooting was a complete breakdown of authority and a miscarriage of justice....what are we even doing? I'm at a loss. Obviously, you have never had a deadly weapon pointed at you. In a split second you must make a life and death decision, 8 seconds is an eternity, I know, I’ve been there. I am trying to understand where your typos begin and where they end, that speaks to your credibility, it is in question. |
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Post by johneaztec on Nov 20, 2021 17:48:51 GMT -8
Let's get real Ryan. You're really easy to read. You always go after me, in part because you think I'm not well informed and can only go superficial with you on a topic, and I'll admit that I'm obviously not extremely versed on some topics. On the other hand, if someone, like "Obsidian Edge" who IS obviously well versed and can rebut your argument and show that you are wrong or pin you to a corner, you'll either give a one, or a few words answer and say something like, " I don't respond to trash." Ok. "Go after you"? Uh, okay. Well, no, I like to halt the spread of misinformation because you're being fed a bunch of lies and spewing garbage like "my black friend is upset." You still have not responded to the Rice claims. Your problem is you literally parrot someone else's false takes, then try to pass them off as real/original/true. You bring that on yourself - You can easily remedy that. I mean...LOL at thinking I'm "pinned to a corner" when I just don't want to waste my time explaining things to someone who is obviously trolling. I value my energy. I'm not "wrong" in any sense here. You defended murdering a child. What is "wrong" is you repeating someone else's misguided illusions and pretending it's RIGHT. Here's a hint - When someone says "I'm not making excuses, but....or "You're using this ONE case"....they aren't arguing reality. They are trying to promote a bogus agenda. Anyone with brain cells knows that this is not isolated to Tamir Rice. It's a byproduct or corruption, undue influence, poor training and vetting processes. When I "parrot" something it's only because I believe in it as well. So, let's make that clear. I simply don't have an ego that tells me I can't learn something from others. So, my black friends, and remember, many other black peoples thoughts and feelings are garbage? Ok.... They're garbage to you because they don't match your views. They happen to be people who have decided not to play victim and make everything about race, because it's simply not. Try again. |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 17:50:15 GMT -8
www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-30220700Want to try again? Also, reread what you just wrote. You are defending a cop's actions like there's a monumental difference between two seconds and ten. We're talking about a kid who is TWELVE. A kid who wasn't reaching for his fake gun. The officers didn't..even...get....out...of...the..car. I cannot fathom that this is a hill to die on, let alone disagree on. If we cannot fundamentally agree that Tamir Rice's shooting was a complete breakdown of authority and a miscarriage of justice....what are we even doing? I'm at a loss. Obviously, you have never had a deadly weapon pointed at you. In a split second you must make a life and death decision, 8 seconds is an eternity, I know, I’ve been there. I am trying to understand where your typos begin and where they end, that speaks to your credibility, it is in question. The person whose credibility I would be worried about is yourself - Your statements here are borderline reprehensible. I'm familiar with gun violence. Intimately. I'm aware of the dangers police officers face. I've been involved in more than one police situation myself. That does not excuse the circumstances of the Rice case and you're doing yourself and the people listening to you a massive disservice by not knowing what actually transpired. Your argument doesn't hold water here because of those circumstances - Police don't just show up and start shooting. It's to serve and protect...not serve and assassinate. Maybe if the officer's entire story hadn't been disproven later on, you might have some real value here. Unfortunately, that happened. |
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Post by Obsidian Edge on Nov 20, 2021 17:52:20 GMT -8
Let's get real Ryan. You're really easy to read. You always go after me, in part because you think I'm not well informed and can only go superficial with you on a topic, and I'll admit that I'm obviously not extremely versed on some topics. On the other hand, if someone, like "Obsidian Edge" who IS obviously well versed and can rebut your argument and show that you are wrong or pin you to a corner, you'll either give a one, or a few words answer and say something like, " I don't respond to trash." Ok. "Go after you"? Uh, okay. Well, no, I like to halt the spread of misinformation because you're being fed a bunch of lies and spewing garbage like "my black friend is upset." You still have not responded to the Rice claims. Your problem is you literally parrot someone else's false takes, then try to pass them off as real/original/true. You bring that on yourself - You can easily remedy that. I mean...LOL at thinking I'm "pinned to a corner" when I just don't want to waste my time explaining things to someone who is obviously trolling. I value my energy. I'm not "wrong" in any sense here. You defended murdering a child. What is "wrong" is you repeating someone else's misguided illusions and pretending it's RIGHT. Here's a hint - When someone says "I'm not making excuses, but....or "You're using this ONE case"....they aren't arguing reality. They are trying to promote a bogus agenda. Anyone with brain cells knows that this is not isolated to Tamir Rice. It's a byproduct or corruption, undue influence, poor training and vetting processes. I should have said "you're highlighting" this one case of police brutality as evidence for your religious beliefs. Happy? |
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Post by uwphoto on Nov 20, 2021 17:53:32 GMT -8
I'll just put this out there. My sister in Zona adopted a kid from Ethiopia.. my nephew. When he was in high school near Phoenix, he went to a party in Flagstaff. OK, he stuck out like a sore thumb.. but guess who was the only kid at the party of 100 cited by the local police for marijuana? My best friend from high school is black..he's got lots of stories ("stopped driving while black etc.). This is not an equal society... I'm telling you.... of course better than 60 years ago... when Muhammad Ali couldn't get served in a restaurant in the south after winning the Gold medal for USA in 1960.
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 17:58:33 GMT -8
"Go after you"? Uh, okay. Well, no, I like to halt the spread of misinformation because you're being fed a bunch of lies and spewing garbage like "my black friend is upset." You still have not responded to the Rice claims. Your problem is you literally parrot someone else's false takes, then try to pass them off as real/original/true. You bring that on yourself - You can easily remedy that. I mean...LOL at thinking I'm "pinned to a corner" when I just don't want to waste my time explaining things to someone who is obviously trolling. I value my energy. I'm not "wrong" in any sense here. You defended murdering a child. What is "wrong" is you repeating someone else's misguided illusions and pretending it's RIGHT. Here's a hint - When someone says "I'm not making excuses, but....or "You're using this ONE case"....they aren't arguing reality. They are trying to promote a bogus agenda. Anyone with brain cells knows that this is not isolated to Tamir Rice. It's a byproduct or corruption, undue influence, poor training and vetting processes. When I "parrot" something it's only because I believe in it as well. So, let's make that clear. I simply don't have an ego that tells me I can't learn something from others. So, my black friends, and remember, many other black peoples thoughts and feelings are garbage? Ok.... They're garbage to you because they don't match your views. They happen to be people who have decided not to play victim and make everything about race, because it's simply not. Try again. So I'm glad you clarified that your thoughts mirror theirs. Nice self-own there? The entire point of a forum is to exchange ideas and learn. Tbat said, I'm not obligated to take a person who I know to not be serious with their arguments seriously. Neither is anyone else. And no, it's garbage because you demean and undermine EVERY Black person when you try to pass off their views with that terminology. I don't know what it's like to be a slave, so I'm not going to pretend that I do. (A facetious example, but you get the point, hopefully) I notice how you just instantly went along with Obsidian Edge's narrative without even questioning it, even though it's obviously not correct. And then you called it a rebuttal and said I was pinned to a corner...? I could do this all day and defend my stance KNOWLEDGABLY. That's easy when the facts are on my side. |
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Post by North County Aztec on Nov 20, 2021 18:00:09 GMT -8
Obviously, you have never had a deadly weapon pointed at you. In a split second you must make a life and death decision, 8 seconds is an eternity, I know, I’ve been there. I am trying to understand where your typos begin and where they end, that speaks to your credibility, it is in question. The person whose credibility I would be worried about is yourself - Your statements here are borderline reprehensible. I'm familiar with gun violence. Intimately. I'm aware of the dangers police officers face. I've been involved in more than one police situation myself. That does not excuse the circumstances of the Rice case and you're doing yourself and the people listening to you a massive disservice by not knowing what actually transpired. Your argument doesn't hold water here because of those circumstances - Police don't just show up and start shooting. It's to serve and protect...not serve and assassinate. Maybe if the officer's entire story hadn't been disproven later on, you might have some real value here. Unfortunately, that happened. It was a tragedy, we can agree, I hope on that. Your typos, however are overwhelming. The cops didn't just show up. They were dispatched to checkout a person that appeared to have a weapon. Unfortunately the cops were not told the weapon could have been a pellet pistol. BTW I'm not arguing, I'm simple pointing out the facts. |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 18:02:27 GMT -8
"Go after you"? Uh, okay. Well, no, I like to halt the spread of misinformation because you're being fed a bunch of lies and spewing garbage like "my black friend is upset." You still have not responded to the Rice claims. Your problem is you literally parrot someone else's false takes, then try to pass them off as real/original/true. You bring that on yourself - You can easily remedy that. I mean...LOL at thinking I'm "pinned to a corner" when I just don't want to waste my time explaining things to someone who is obviously trolling. I value my energy. I'm not "wrong" in any sense here. You defended murdering a child. What is "wrong" is you repeating someone else's misguided illusions and pretending it's RIGHT. Here's a hint - When someone says "I'm not making excuses, but....or "You're using this ONE case"....they aren't arguing reality. They are trying to promote a bogus agenda. Anyone with brain cells knows that this is not isolated to Tamir Rice. It's a byproduct or corruption, undue influence, poor training and vetting processes. I should have said "you're highlighting" this one case of police brutality as evidence for your religious beliefs. Happy? Believing in equality is not a religious belief, it's a human one. I could highlight many more. That won't make you change your tune, will it? You know, if you are as intelligent as I believe you to be, that Tamir Rice is far from the first Black person killed "mistakenly." I'm just frankly tired of the excuses that you said you weren't providing while providing them. |
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Post by Obsidian Edge on Nov 20, 2021 18:05:39 GMT -8
I'll just put this out there. My sister in Zona adopted a kid from Ethiopia.. my nephew. When he was in high school near Phoenix, he went to a party in Flagstaff. OK, he stuck out like a sore thumb.. but guess who was the only kid at the party of 100 cited by the local police for marijuana? My best friend from high school is black..he's got lots of stories ("stopped driving while black etc.). This is not an equal society... I'm telling you.... of course better than 60 years ago... when Muhammad Ali couldn't get served in a restaurant in the south after winning the Gold medal for USA in 1960. That's unfortunate. I taught kids who were denied admission and scholarships to their college of choice because of their skin color. I've worked for companies who emphasize hiring black people to increase "diversity" + numerous other examples where being white is a disadvantage. I'd rather get frisked by cops at a party if I had the choice between that or getting into Harvard. I've been called a racist just because I'm white. I've also been pulled over randomly and searched by cops and singled out at parties, as a white kid. I've had my best friend killed by police. The thing is, I keep perspective and don't adopt a worldview that the average policeman is out to get me. I judge what actions I or others did to contribute to those situations or outcomes. I also don't wallow in my whiteness or blame others. |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 18:06:22 GMT -8
The person whose credibility I would be worried about is yourself - Your statements here are borderline reprehensible. I'm familiar with gun violence. Intimately. I'm aware of the dangers police officers face. I've been involved in more than one police situation myself. That does not excuse the circumstances of the Rice case and you're doing yourself and the people listening to you a massive disservice by not knowing what actually transpired. Your argument doesn't hold water here because of those circumstances - Police don't just show up and start shooting. It's to serve and protect...not serve and assassinate. Maybe if the officer's entire story hadn't been disproven later on, you might have some real value here. Unfortunately, that happened. It was a tragedy, we can agree, I hope on that. Your typos, however are overwhelming. The cops didn't just show up. They were dispatched to checkout a person that appeared to have a weapon. Unfortunately the cops were not told the weapon could have been a pellet pistol. BTW I'm not arguing, I'm simple pointing out the facts. Worry less about my one typo and more about the truth, please. Again, spare me the excuses. The truth came out after the fact. I KNOW what happened, it's on the written record. The officers were dispatched for reports of a man with a gun. Upon getting to the scene, they "shouted orders" from their car and within two seconds (the car hadn't even come to a stop) - They shot Tamir Rice in the chest. They didn't render any aid to him. Over four minutes went by before ANY aid was rendered to him by anyone. They had no EMT training. I could keep going, but what's the point? |
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Post by Obsidian Edge on Nov 20, 2021 18:44:06 GMT -8
It was a tragedy, we can agree, I hope on that. Your typos, however are overwhelming. The cops didn't just show up. They were dispatched to checkout a person that appeared to have a weapon. Unfortunately the cops were not told the weapon could have been a pellet pistol. BTW I'm not arguing, I'm simple pointing out the facts. Worry less about my one typo and more about the truth, please. Again, spare me the excuses. The truth came out after the fact. I KNOW what happened, it's on the written record. The officers were dispatched for reports of a man with a gun. Upon getting to the scene, they "shouted orders" from their car and within two seconds (the car hadn't even come to a stop) - They shot Tamir Rice in the chest. They didn't render any aid to him. Over four minutes went by before ANY aid was rendered to him by anyone. They had no EMT training. I could keep going, but what's the point? I'm all for more cop training. But is that the reason you think they shot him (lack of training)? Or was it because he was black? |
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Post by johneaztec on Nov 20, 2021 18:47:30 GMT -8
It was a tragedy, we can agree, I hope on that. Your typos, however are overwhelming. The cops didn't just show up. They were dispatched to checkout a person that appeared to have a weapon. Unfortunately the cops were not told the weapon could have been a pellet pistol. BTW I'm not arguing, I'm simple pointing out the facts. Worry less about my one typo and more about the truth, please. Again, spare me the excuses. The truth came out after the fact. I KNOW what happened, it's on the written record. The officers were dispatched for reports of a man with a gun. Upon getting to the scene, they "shouted orders" from their car and within two seconds (the car hadn't even come to a stop) - They shot Tamir Rice in the chest. They didn't render any aid to him. Over four minutes went by before ANY aid was rendered to him by anyone. They had no EMT training. I could keep going, but what's the point? Are you saying that Tamir was shot only because he was black? Or, was he shot because the officer thought he was drawing his pistol and it could've been someone of any race? |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 19:05:10 GMT -8
Worry less about my one typo and more about the truth, please. Again, spare me the excuses. The truth came out after the fact. I KNOW what happened, it's on the written record. The officers were dispatched for reports of a man with a gun. Upon getting to the scene, they "shouted orders" from their car and within two seconds (the car hadn't even come to a stop) - They shot Tamir Rice in the chest. They didn't render any aid to him. Over four minutes went by before ANY aid was rendered to him by anyone. They had no EMT training. I could keep going, but what's the point? Are you saying that Tamir was shot only because he was black? Or, was he shot because the officer thought he was drawing his pistol and it could've been someone of any race? It's almost like you guys are the same person...that was uncanny timing. I'm saying, quite clearly, that there is a systemic, widespread issue with policing as it pertains to people of color. Point blank, period. A pattern of abuses that is certainly not isolated to the Rice case. Laquan McDonald, for example, was shot 16 times while he was running away. |
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Post by johneaztec on Nov 20, 2021 19:13:42 GMT -8
Are you saying that Tamir was shot only because he was black? Or, was he shot because the officer thought he was drawing his pistol and it could've been someone of any race? It's almost like you guys are the same person...that was uncanny timing. I'm saying, quite clearly, that there is a systemic, widespread issue with policing as it pertains to people of color. Point blank, period. We'll, it's probably because it was the obvious question. My, aren't you the popular one. Don't skirt around the issue. I know you say you don't want to look at anything case by case, which is ridiculous, but do you think IN THIS SITUATION he shot Tamir because he was black, and not because he thought he was drawing a weapon? Simple question. If not, then why even bring up race? To fan the flames? |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 19:23:03 GMT -8
It's almost like you guys are the same person...that was uncanny timing. I'm saying, quite clearly, that there is a systemic, widespread issue with policing as it pertains to people of color. Point blank, period. We'll, it's probably because it was the obvious question. My, aren't you the popular one. Don't skirt around the issue. I know you say you don't want to look at anything case by case, which is ridiculous, but do you think IN THIS SITUATION he shot Tamir because he was black, and not because he thought he was drawing a weapon? Simple question. If not, then why even bring up race? To fan the flames? I never said I don't want to look at a case by case synopsis - It just won't change the narrative of those on the wrong side of this, so it's a wasted exercise. I could go through every name I listed up there (and many, many others) but what purpose does it serve? You're not going to suddenly agree with me if you truly believe what you're being fed by the posters who you're agreeing with. Pointless. Do I believe the officer shot Rice because he was Black? No. That's not the point. What the officer thought is irrelevant - He acted improperly using lethal force unnecessarily because of a breakdown of the entire system. What I'm illustrating is a pattern of brutality against people of color that is in no way forgivable or excusable due to the dangers of their job. There is just absolutely nothing to justify the outcome of what transpired. Combine that with the documented issues of inequitable incarceration and you have the White privilege scenario I've been alluding to repeatedly with Kyle Rittenhouse. Do you believe the justice system has no racial bias? Honest question. |
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Post by johneaztec on Nov 20, 2021 20:15:05 GMT -8
We'll, it's probably because it was the obvious question. My, aren't you the popular one. Don't skirt around the issue. I know you say you don't want to look at anything case by case, which is ridiculous, but do you think IN THIS SITUATION he shot Tamir because he was black, and not because he thought he was drawing a weapon? Simple question. If not, then why even bring up race? To fan the flames? I never said I don't want to look at a case by case synopsis - It just won't change the narrative of those on the wrong side of this, so it's a wasted exercise. I could go through every name I listed up there (and many, many others) but what purpose does it serve? You're not going to suddenly agree with me if you truly believe what you're being fed by the posters who you're agreeing with. Pointless. Do I believe the officer shot Rice because he was Black? No. That's not the point. What the officer thought is irrelevant - He acted improperly using lethal force unnecessarily because of a breakdown of the entire system. What I'm illustrating is a pattern of brutality against people of color that is in no way forgivable or excusable due to the dangers of their job. There is just absolutely nothing to justify the outcome of what transpired. Combine that with the documented issues of inequitable incarceration and you have the White privilege scenario I've been alluding to repeatedly with Kyle Rittenhouse. Do you believe the justice system has no racial bias? Honest question. I believe there are good and bad cops, and good and bad humans everywhere in all facets of life, but I don't paint every scenario as racist, or white privilege, etc, unless it justifies it. I look into the facts of the situation and make a judgement from there. |
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Post by aztecryan on Nov 20, 2021 21:09:18 GMT -8
I never said I don't want to look at a case by case synopsis - It just won't change the narrative of those on the wrong side of this, so it's a wasted exercise. I could go through every name I listed up there (and many, many others) but what purpose does it serve? You're not going to suddenly agree with me if you truly believe what you're being fed by the posters who you're agreeing with. Pointless. Do I believe the officer shot Rice because he was Black? No. That's not the point. What the officer thought is irrelevant - He acted improperly using lethal force unnecessarily because of a breakdown of the entire system. What I'm illustrating is a pattern of brutality against people of color that is in no way forgivable or excusable due to the dangers of their job. There is just absolutely nothing to justify the outcome of what transpired. Combine that with the documented issues of inequitable incarceration and you have the White privilege scenario I've been alluding to repeatedly with Kyle Rittenhouse. Do you believe the justice system has no racial bias? Honest question. I believe there are good and bad cops, and good and bad humans everywhere in all facets of life, but I don't paint every scenario as racist, or white privilege, etc, unless it justifies it. I look into the facts of the situation and make a judgement from there. Really doesn't seem to be the case considering you immediately jumped on the bandwagon at the beginning of this thread and then again as soon as you were told something that blatantly wasn't true by another poster. Ignoring White privilege is just denying reality. It exists in all facets of life, including the criminal justice system. Two men of different skin color can commit the same crime and the statistical odds will tell you the one who isn't white will get a longer sentence. If that is not White privilege, what would you call it? Nobody is calling "every scenario" racist, by the way. Bringing up the logical conclusion that systemic racism is pervasive isn't inherently racist, it's just true. Systemic racism doesn't mean the entire system is racist, it means that outcomes that are derived have disparate results based on racial bias. And that's just the truth - There's a mountain of evidence to support it. Start with Kalief Browder - He was charged with grand larceny, robbery and assault for allegedly stealing a backpack that had valuables inside. He spent two years in solitary confinement and didn't appear before a judge for months. He ended up committing suicide after his release for a crime he didn't commit. Privilege is real. |
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