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Post by aztecking on Sept 26, 2021 7:07:09 GMT -8
Yeah, "doing my own research" these days consists of finding articles and videos of people who have the same preconceived opinions "as me". Now THAT'S worth shaking your head over. The vast majority of whom, have no medical or scientific training or education. You got jerkoffs that spend 30 minutes looking up a topic on the internet and then think they know as much (or more) than scientists and doctors that spent their entire adult lives studying the topic.
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Post by aztecking on Sept 26, 2021 7:09:07 GMT -8
So you're scared to take the vaccine? It's ok, I'll hold your hand. Don't cry. You're a big strong boy. Mama would be so proud of you. And we can go for ice cream after. Don't you want to be a big boy? Or do you want to be a baby? This is exactly what I was talking about! First, yes, I’m afraid to inject myself with anything I’m told I “need” to put in my body. Neither you nor I know what’s in that $#!+! You can’t possibly believe the “results” that are publicized, right? If so, that’s your choice… for me, I’ll wait for your results!🤷🏼♂️ If that’s what you think then do the responsible thing and don’t go to a hospital if you get COVID and need help. Save that space for the people who did everything they could to avoid contracting it. Can you agree to that?
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Post by tttrojan4life on Sept 26, 2021 7:17:30 GMT -8
This thread is useful. It shows who you can take seriously and who you cannot.
Anti-vaxxers should be treated like children. First try to reason with them kindly, and if their behavior doesn’t change, then adults have to get stern and exhibit tough love.
Herman Cain was essentially an incorrigible child. What a shame. Now he has a grim award named after him.
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Post by gocoaztec on Sept 26, 2021 7:21:48 GMT -8
The vast majority of whom, have no medical or scientific training or education. You got jerkoffs that spend 30 minutes looking up a topic on the internet and then think they know as much (or more) than scientists and doctors that spent their entire adult lives studying the topic. Milgram much?
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 26, 2021 8:03:41 GMT -8
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Post by moctezumaii on Sept 26, 2021 8:09:09 GMT -8
WOW. This insipid thread is still going. Wow.
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Post by azman on Sept 26, 2021 9:23:07 GMT -8
The benefits of vaccination DO outweigh the risks for everyone. And it’s not even close, statistically… Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 386 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 20, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,899 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 26, 2021 9:45:54 GMT -8
For EVERYONE? That can't be true.
Let's just say, for almost everyone.
First, what are risks (side effects) of taking the vaccine and how did we get that info? I really don't have a clear picture, but I don't spend a a lot of time with all of this. I know there might be issues with myocarditis and menstruation. Like I said early, both my wife and daughter got and still have numbness in their face which they believe is from the vaccine. Neither has had numbness before the vaccine and both got it right after the vaccine.
Now, what are the risks of covid for a healthy 20 year old? It doesn't seem that high of an acute risk from what I have read. But perhaps there is a greater long term effect?
I don't think it is that clear, but I could be wrong.
This is an example of the problem I am seeing:
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 386 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 20, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,899 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem
Do you see the problem with this stat? Notice the 386 million doses of vac is greater than the U.S. Population. Yes, we get multiple doses, but don't you think the stat should be based on the number of people you got the vac (one or two doses) and the number that died? That would be a more accurate stat.
And another edit: How about those that already got covid and have a level of natural immunity?
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Post by azman on Sept 26, 2021 10:10:43 GMT -8
For EVERYONE? That can't be true. Let's just say, for almost everyone. First, what are risks (side effects) of taking the vaccine and how did we get that info? I really don't have a clear picture, but I don't spend a a lot of time with all of this. I know there might be issues with myocarditis and menstruation. Like I said early, both my wife and daughter got and still have numbness in their face which they believe is from the vaccine. Neither has had numbness before the vaccine and both got it right after the vaccine. Now, what are the risks of covid for a healthy 20 year old? It doesn't seem that high of an acute risk from what I have read. But perhaps there is a greater long term effect? I don't think it is that clear, but I could be wrong. This is an example of the problem I am seeing: Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 386 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 20, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,899 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem Do you see the problem with this stat? Notice the 386 million doses of vac is greater than the U.S. Population. Yes, we get multiple doses, but don't you think the stat should be based on the number of people you got the vac (one or two doses) and the number that died? That would be a more accurate stat. And another edit: How about those that already got covid and have a level of natural immunity? Ok, everyone with the exception of people where a vaccine is actually dangerous because of some kind of condition (probably less than 1% of the population). Facial numbness could be Bell’s Palsy, which is a temporary, benign condition. Has their doctor looked into that? If you want to cut the the number of people vaccinated in half, fine. Then it’s a .004% risk of death from vaccine, and thats assuming all 7899 deaths were actually from the vaccine, which would be extremely unlikely statistically. As far as natural immunity, latest research shows that previous infection plus one mRNA vaccine dose gives a higher level of immunity than either the vaccine or previous infection alone.
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 26, 2021 10:42:51 GMT -8
Fair enough. I agree, all reported deaths via vaccine are not from the vaccine, just as all reported deaths from covid include deaths with covid.
I believe the death rate for 20-24 year old with covid is .006 (I just looked it up, but sounds about right). That is ALL 20 - 24. Now take out ones with an illness and the obese and it is going to be even lower.
And we are talking about death, not side effects. So if I am healthy and 20 years old it might not be in my best interest to get the vaccine right now, as far as dying is concerned. But maybe I'll get it because I'm worried about others, but if they are vaccinated??? Or I just don't want to get sick, like taking the regular flu shot. But let's be honest, that person is not taking the vaccine because they have a large risk of dying from covid.
Then there is the issue of general spread of the virus, which I would think be mitigated from a higher vaccine rate, but now I'm not even sure about that!
I just don't think it is that clear.
BTW thanks for the info on Bell's palsy...
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Post by goaztecs on Sept 26, 2021 11:20:25 GMT -8
Can we get a pass since attendance will likely be under 10k for the NM game?
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Post by standiego on Sept 26, 2021 12:58:33 GMT -8
Let's be realistic . The seeds have been planted - about 4 or 5 years ago - that We as a nation can not except what even the Medical People are saying as they have been branded as The Other Team .
We are now in a stage where- as planned- it is now the Divided States of Americans . With the goal of it is Your Team vs Our Team . So even any Medical Issue gets turned into a Political Issue . We are now at a situation where many do not believe the regular news media and now look to "alternative Facts that people want to believe so find that information anywhere they can .
Division among families , friends , co workers , fans and whomever . No longer discussion but as we have seen or heard - name calling , branding , bullying or fighting over Masks and or Vaccinations ( or as some have enjoyed Labeling them as " JABS " in your arm . Toss in as many charged words as possible . Win at any cost - not so COVID can get slowed down but Your Team looks better .
While discussion used to be informative - this and other posts get Deflected or Manipulated into ways of spouting Mis Information -
Side A is not going to listen to Side B and so on . So instead of adding another 5 to 10 pages maybe close it down - before things do get even more heated .
This was supposed to be about If a Vaccination Card was going to be needed , but soon the arguments about Freedom , Vaccine , JABS , and you name it
As I said seeds planted and- Division-- as planned is there - including Aztec fans .
So maybe shut this down and the same for any other post resembling Political thoughts
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Post by jpaztec on Sept 26, 2021 14:14:34 GMT -8
Let's be realistic . The seeds have been planted - about 4 or 5 years ago - that We as a nation can not except what even the Medical People are saying as they have been branded as The Other Team . We are now in a stage where- as planned- it is now the Divided States of Americans . With the goal of it is Your Team vs Our Team . So even any Medical Issue gets turned into a Political Issue . We are now at a situation where many do not believe the regular news media and now look to "alternative Facts that people want to believe so find that information anywhere they can . Division among families , friends , co workers , fans and whomever . No longer discussion but as we have seen or heard - name calling , branding , bullying or fighting over Masks and or Vaccinations ( or as some have enjoyed Labeling them as " JABS " in your arm . Toss in as many charged words as possible . Win at any cost - not so COVID can get slowed down but Your Team looks better . While discussion used to be informative - this and other posts get Deflected or Manipulated into ways of spouting Mis Information - Side A is not going to listen to Side B and so on . So instead of adding another 5 to 10 pages maybe close it down - before things do get even more heated . This was supposed to be about If a Vaccination Card was going to be needed , but soon the arguments about Freedom , Vaccine , JABS , and you name it As I said seeds planted and- Division-- as planned is there - including Aztec fans . So maybe shut this down and the same for any other post resembling Political thoughts Well said, Stan.
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Post by 84aztec96 on Sept 26, 2021 14:28:02 GMT -8
Talking and listening to the other side is very important, without, the only thing left is power.
If the conversation is unproductive, then sometimes it's best to just walk away...
Edit: I would also add, "our side" should be what is actually true.
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Post by IE Aztec on Sept 26, 2021 17:51:08 GMT -8
Can we get a pass since attendance will likely be under 10k for the NM game? We can all agree THIS is pretty funny, right?!?!?
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Post by jdaztec on Sept 26, 2021 17:53:53 GMT -8
I agree, good comments Stan.
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Post by jdaztec on Sept 26, 2021 18:04:21 GMT -8
Also agree with shutting this thread down. It did it'd purpose. We all know about the vaccine card requirement now
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Post by aztecking on Sept 26, 2021 18:05:20 GMT -8
Let's be realistic . The seeds have been planted - about 4 or 5 years ago - that We as a nation can not except what even the Medical People are saying as they have been branded as The Other Team . We are now in a stage where- as planned- it is now the Divided States of Americans . With the goal of it is Your Team vs Our Team . So even any Medical Issue gets turned into a Political Issue . We are now at a situation where many do not believe the regular news media and now look to "alternative Facts that people want to believe so find that information anywhere they can . Division among families , friends , co workers , fans and whomever . No longer discussion but as we have seen or heard - name calling , branding , bullying or fighting over Masks and or Vaccinations ( or as some have enjoyed Labeling them as " JABS " in your arm . Toss in as many charged words as possible . Win at any cost - not so COVID can get slowed down but Your Team looks better . While discussion used to be informative - this and other posts get Deflected or Manipulated into ways of spouting Mis Information - Side A is not going to listen to Side B and so on . So instead of adding another 5 to 10 pages maybe close it down - before things do get even more heated . This was supposed to be about If a Vaccination Card was going to be needed , but soon the arguments about Freedom , Vaccine , JABS , and you name it As I said seeds planted and- Division-- as planned is there - including Aztec fans . So maybe shut this down and the same for any other post resembling Political thoughts This is definitely true. Sadly there is almost no issue anymore that isn’t divided by political party. Who would’ve thought 10 years ago that vaccines and public safety would divide along political lines?
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Post by goaztecs on Sept 26, 2021 18:36:36 GMT -8
Can we get a pass since attendance will likely be under 10k for the NM game? We can all agree THIS is pretty funny, right?!?!? That I hope for a waiver or that our fan base is so weak that we can’t get over 10K when we’re 4-0?
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