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Post by aztecwin on May 7, 2010 15:34:53 GMT -8
CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?
(This is certainly 'food-for-thought'. What do you think?)
This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to finish
And send it on to everyone. Maybe this is why our American Muslims are
So quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.
Can a good Muslim be A good American?
This question was forwarded to a man who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20
years.
The following is his reply:
Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon
God of Arabia.
Religiously - no. . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah
Except Islam (Quran, 2:256)(Koran)
scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of
Islam and the Quran.
Geographically - no . Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he
Turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make
Friends with Christians or Jews .
Politically - no. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual
Leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America,
The great Satan.
Domestically - no. .. . Because he is instructed to marry four Women and
Beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 )
Intellectually - no. . Because he cannot accept the American
Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the
Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does
Not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot
Co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually - no. . . Because when we declare 'one nation under God,'
The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to
As Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99
Excellent names.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we should be
Very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. - - - They obviously
Cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish
it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand
This, the better it will be for our country and our future.
The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. ....
Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.
SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 7, 2010 20:44:04 GMT -8
A Muslim can be a good American if he does not take his religion too seriously. That would put him in the same class as many Christian Americans who do not take their religion too seriously.
AzWm
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Post by aztecwin on May 8, 2010 5:52:12 GMT -8
A Muslim can be a good American if he does not take his religion too seriously. That would put him in the same class as many Christian Americans who do not take their religion too seriously. AzWm Build on that theme William. Just what part of being luke warm about being a Christian equates to any of the bullets in that post above? I know what you are saying, but really just look again and expand your idea. I think you will change your mind. What facet of Christianty equates to any of the things about the Muslim religion and the even luke warm will to destroy America. That was just a poor selection of an idea to make a pretty unthinking remark. |
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Post by uwaztec on May 8, 2010 9:26:34 GMT -8
A Muslim can be a good American if he does not take his religion too seriously. That would put him in the same class as many Christian Americans who do not take their religion too seriously. AzWm Build on that theme William. Just what part of being luke warm about being a Christian equates to any of the bullets in that post above? I know what you are saying, but really just look again and expand your idea. I think you will change your mind. What facet of Christianty equates to any of the things about the Muslim religion and the even luke warm will to destroy America. That was just a poor selection of an idea to make a pretty unthinking remark. So Win...what are you proposing? Internment camps? Not saying its not an issue...but what percent ... 0.1 max? May be between a rock and a hard place...the USA just does not operate by singling out one religion as "bad". |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 8, 2010 10:05:18 GMT -8
A Muslim can be a good American if he does not take his religion too seriously. That would put him in the same class as many Christian Americans who do not take their religion too seriously. AzWm Build on that theme William. Just what part of being luke warm about being a Christian equates to any of the bullets in that post above? I know what you are saying, but really just look again and expand your idea. I think you will change your mind. What facet of Christianty equates to any of the things about the Muslim religion and the even luke warm will to destroy America. That was just a poor selection of an idea to make a pretty unthinking remark. What I had in mind was the difference between evangelicals on the one hand and the politically moderate to liberal American Christians on the other. The former are very serious about their religion and that seriousness is often reflected in their political views. The latter, in my opinion, are political animals first and Christians second. They do not let Christian teachings get in the way of political beliefs. Case in point; Roman Catholics who, despite what their religion clearly teaches, are in favor of abortion. As for Muslims, my statement was made with the lukewarm Christians just alluded to in mind. Of course, many Muslims are very serious about Islam, and if they take the teachings of the Koran to heart, they may very well display a very hostile attitude toward non-Muslims in general and the West in particular. Are there moderate, less than fire-breathingly faithful Muslims? I really don't know, but I suppose there are. Based on some of the statements from the Koran I have read, Islam has within it the seeds of very hostile, even violent actions toward non-believers. One can only hope that the religion will undergo some sort of reformation as that which transformed Christianity five centuries ago. Let me add that my previous response was at least partially written in jest. AzWm |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 8, 2010 10:29:43 GMT -8
I really should add that I actually do believe that most Muslims in this country are good Americans. If that were not so, we would be suffering terrorist attacks on a weekly basis.
Of course, any Muslim living in the U.S. must either (a) be ignorant of the more hostile teaching of the Koran or (b) have reconciled him or herself to those teachings the way Christians ignore some passages in the Bible (e.g. Leviticus).
AzWm
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Post by aztecwin on May 8, 2010 13:37:33 GMT -8
Build on that theme William. Just what part of being luke warm about being a Christian equates to any of the bullets in that post above? I know what you are saying, but really just look again and expand your idea. I think you will change your mind. What facet of Christianity equates to any of the things about the Muslim religion and the even luke warm will to destroy America. That was just a poor selection of an idea to make a pretty unthinking remark. So Win...what are you proposing? Internment camps? Not saying its not an issue...but what percent ... 0.1 max? May be between a rock and a hard place...the USA just does not operate by singling out one religion as "bad". I am not saying anything like that, only that it would be very hard to live up to the tenets of the Muslim faith and be a good loyal American. You see, regardless of what liberals say, we are basically a Christian nation. I was trying to see what exactly William was trying to get across. |
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Post by aztecwin on May 8, 2010 13:41:01 GMT -8
I really should add that I actually do believe that most Muslims in this country are good Americans. If that were not so, we would be suffering terrorist attacks on a weekly basis. Of course, any Muslim living in the U.S. must either (a) be ignorant of the more hostile teaching of the Koran or (b) have reconciled him or herself to those teachings the way Christians ignore some passages in the Bible (e.g. Leviticus). AzWm I guess that I can see it that way up to a point. I was trying to get the idea across that since we are basically a Christian Nation, that it would be hard for a Muslim to be a really good loyal American. It would be just as hard for a Christian American to be a good Saudi. |
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Post by uwaztec on May 8, 2010 14:14:22 GMT -8
I really should add that I actually do believe that most Muslims in this country are good Americans. If that were not so, we would be suffering terrorist attacks on a weekly basis. Of course, any Muslim living in the U.S. must either (a) be ignorant of the more hostile teaching of the Koran or (b) have reconciled him or herself to those teachings the way Christians ignore some passages in the Bible (e.g. Leviticus). AzWm I guess that I can see it that way up to a point. I was trying to get the idea across that since we are basically a Christian Nation, that it would be hard for a Muslim to be a really good loyal American. It would be just as hard for a Christian American to be a good Saudi. Come on Win...it would be hard for ANY American to be a good Saudi!! They would have to cut off at least two of my fingers....maybe my whole hand!! |
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Post by aztecwin on May 8, 2010 14:50:47 GMT -8
I guess that I can see it that way up to a point. I was trying to get the idea across that since we are basically a Christian Nation, that it would be hard for a Muslim to be a really good loyal American. It would be just as hard for a Christian American to be a good Saudi. Come on Win...it would be hard for ANY American to be a good Saudi!! They would have to cut off at least two of my fingers....maybe my whole hand!! I guess that I am not having much success at getting this idea across. I should have just posted the starter and then stopped. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 10, 2010 8:09:22 GMT -8
This is exactly the same kind of religious bigotry that Kennedy experienced in 1960.
"How could we possibly have a Catholic President when he owes his allegiance to the Pope in the Vatican?" Catholics, as well as many other Christian sects, believe that if you are not 'one of them' that you will not go to heaven and are apostate.
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Post by aztecwin on May 10, 2010 17:26:33 GMT -8
This is exactly the same kind of religious bigotry that Kennedy experienced in 1960. "How could we possibly have a Catholic President when he owes his allegiance to the Pope in the Vatican?" Catholics, as well as many other Christian sects, believe that if you are not 'one of them' that you will not go to heaven and are apostate. I should just let this one die, but your comment is not even close. Kennedy gracefully overcame what was a slight barrier at most and he did it with grace. This Muslim thing is completely different. |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on May 11, 2010 7:53:44 GMT -8
This is exactly the same kind of religious bigotry that Kennedy experienced in 1960. "How could we possibly have a Catholic President when he owes his allegiance to the Pope in the Vatican?" Catholics, as well as many other Christian sects, believe that if you are not 'one of them' that you will not go to heaven and are apostate. I should just let this one die, but your comment is not even close. Kennedy gracefully overcame what was a slight barrier at most and he did it with grace. This Muslim thing is completely different. In some ways yes, in some ways no. There was much of the same crap being said about Catholics that is now being said about Muslims. It just wasn't as organized back then. I was in 2nd or 3rd grade and can still remember my Jewish friends being told that they would have to convert or leave the country if Kennedy won. |
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Post by aztecwin on May 11, 2010 11:30:13 GMT -8
I should just let this one die, but your comment is not even close. Kennedy gracefully overcame what was a slight barrier at most and he did it with grace. This Muslim thing is completely different. In some ways yes, in some ways no. There was much of the same crap being said about Catholics that is now being said about Muslims. It just wasn't as organized back then. I was in 2nd or 3rd grade and can still remember my Jewish friends being told that they would have to convert or leave the country if Kennedy won. I was older and voted in that election. I remember no such thing about the Jews being forced to convert idea. I do remember the anti-Catholic rhetoric, but it was not such a big deal as I remember. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on May 13, 2010 18:33:46 GMT -8
A Muslim can be a good American if he does not take his religion too seriously. That would put him in the same class as many Christian Americans who do not take their religion too seriously. AzWm Build on that theme William. Just what part of being luke warm about being a Christian equates to any of the bullets in that post above? I know what you are saying, but really just look again and expand your idea. I think you will change your mind. What facet of Christianty equates to any of the things about the Muslim religion and the even luke warm will to destroy America. That was just a poor selection of an idea to make a pretty unthinking remark. I am not back, but I'd say everything you posted offers an example of why fundamentalist Christians are poor Americans. =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on May 14, 2010 15:11:45 GMT -8
Build on that theme William. Just what part of being luke warm about being a Christian equates to any of the bullets in that post above? I know what you are saying, but really just look again and expand your idea. I think you will change your mind. What facet of Christianity equates to any of the things about the Muslim religion and the even luke warm will to destroy America. That was just a poor selection of an idea to make a pretty unthinking remark. I am not back, but I'd say everything you posted offers an example of why fundamentalist Christians are poor Americans. =Bob Either participate or just go have another drink. Trolls are welcome, but only clever ones. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on May 15, 2010 17:47:02 GMT -8
I am not back, but I'd say everything you posted offers an example of why fundamentalist Christians are poor Americans. =Bob Either participate or just go have another drink. Trolls are welcome, but only clever ones. It's a bigoted statement that assumes that all Muslims want to destroy the country. But that's not the real point, which is that as a fundamentalist Christian, you a priori would have no problem at all with destroying an Islamic country in the name of your religion. Let's face it, Pooh. You would destroy Islamic religious culture in order to turn them into "good Christians". =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on May 16, 2010 5:49:20 GMT -8
Either participate or just go have another drink. Trolls are welcome, but only clever ones. It's a bigoted statement that assumes that all Muslims want to destroy the country. But that's not the real point, which is that as a fundamentalist Christian, you a priori would have no problem at all with destroying an Islamic country in the name of your religion. Let's face it, Pooh. You would destroy Islamic religious culture in order to turn them into "good Christians". =Bob The all seeing mind reader Bob posts another gem!  |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 16, 2010 13:35:19 GMT -8
Either participate or just go have another drink. Trolls are welcome, but only clever ones. It's a bigoted statement that assumes that all Muslims want to destroy the country. But that's not the real point, which is that as a fundamentalist Christian, you a priori would have no problem at all with destroying an Islamic country in the name of your religion. Let's face it, Pooh. You would destroy Islamic religious culture in order to turn them into "good Christians". =Bob Is this really a Bob Forsythe post, or has someone even more to the left hacked his password to this site? Seriously, Bob, there are not too many things you could say about someone that would be worse than claiming that he is in favor of destroying somebody else's culture. That is such an over-the-top charge that I feel certain you will want to retract it. I mean, you do want to retract that statement. . . don't you? AzWm |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 16, 2010 13:50:44 GMT -8
Just a thought about Christianity and Islam. My wife, much against my advice, ordered the Tudor series produced for British TV. Really well produced stuff about the goings on, in and out of bed, of the royals in England in the 16th Century.
Now there was a bunch who took their religion seriously, so seriously that they were quite willing to murder thousands of their countrymen on the grounds that the latter did not adhere to the "true faith." By "true faith" they did not mean Christianity, they meant the version of Christianity they favored. Seriously, they were ruthless . . . Bloody Mary was not named after an alcoholic beverage.
Hanging, burning, and beheading were considered just fine so long as the victim, sure to go straight to Hell, was not of your faith. Gee, what does that attitude remind you of? Ah, yes, it reminds me of Islam, a religion where the majority of victims of the religious wars these days happen to be other Muslims.
The ruling attitude of current American culture holds that we must, at all costs, not condemn all Muslims for the acts of a few. I refer you to Att. Gen. Holder's refusal, in a House hearing this past week, to admit that Islam has been a factor in the recent series of attempted and successful terrorist attacks in this country. And may I remind the reader that Pres. Bush was very careful to distinguish between terrorists and Islam as a religion.
I happen to agree with that concept up to a point. However, it is foolish not to recognize that Islam is still where the blood-thirsty Protestants and Roman Catholics were five centuries ago.
Muslims, individually and collectively, must condemn the terrorists and in the strongest terms. When that happens, and it has not happened enough yet, no one will even bring up the question of whether a Muslim can be a good American.
AzWm
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